Discuss the Stormlight 5 Prologue Here

[PurpurPhönix]

So if it's not the Stormfather, then how did Gavilar get the visions? Did someone else have access to them?

[teknopathetic]

Just now, Bzhydack said:

It can first influence just few people, is actually very possible that started Influencing people with Honorblades, as they are most dangerous and maybe even have ability to resist, then Stoneshamans, and then rest. This can take few years.

Also, why assume Ishar was using his Honorblade? He could use other magic, maybe Fabrial, or even offworld magic.

It would be very cute if Ishar was standing in the Cognative realm and doing Shadow Puppets into the Physical. 

[+Bzhydack]

1 minute ago, PurpurPhönix said:

So if it's not the Stormfather, then how did Gavilar get the visions? Did someone else have access to them?

Point is, Stormfather indeed starts bonding with Gavilar, so he is sending visions. But we think someone, main theory is Ishar, hacks to Connection between Stormfather and Gavilar and is impersonating Stormfather.

[Gilphon]

Or Ishar just directly hacks into wherever the visions are and fakes the entire thing. 

And I do feel like Ishar is the only one who could do all this. Well Cultivation or Odium probably could, but it's doesn't seem like a thing either of them would do. 

[+Bzhydack]

1 minute ago, Gilphon said:

Or Ishar just directly hacks into wherever the visions are and fakes the entire thing. 

And I do feel like Ishar is the only one who could do all this. Well Cultivation or Odium probably could, but it's doesn't seem like a thing either of them would do. 

Well, Culti maybe. Odium? Not Raise. Taravangian - yep, he could do something like that.

[cometaryorbit]

1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

Ishar was God-Kinging before he had his blade, so this makes me think he had access to some magic before then. 

Well, we've seen Heralds display super-reflexes and such. I think they have some enhancements without their Blades, probably due to being powerful Cognitive Shadows, though not Surgebinding itself.

[Necessary Eagle]

22 minutes ago, Dracnor said:

I Let's just remark that Dalinar too didn't recognize the blade... But in Dalinar's case we can say that he didn't spent hours playing with the blades, so he can be excused.

to be fair to Gav, he was busy dying at the time.

[Dracnor]

6 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

to be fair to Gav, he was busy dying at the time.

Pffff, no excuse, dying takes no effort at all. Everyone can do it, even Amaram

(More seriously, both Kholin *fought* against Szeth for some minutes, and in Gavilar's case I really do find it strange that he doesn't recognize the blade)

[+Harrycrapper]

1 minute ago, Dracnor said:

Pffff, no excuse, dying takes no effort at all. Everyone can do it, even Amaram

(More seriously, both Kholin *fought* against Szeth for some minutes, and in Gavilar's case I really do find it strange that he doesn't recognize the blade)

Death is lighter than a feather, duty is heavier than a mountain.

[Rg2045]

I think this is the stormfather, the reason that he’s much more “dogmatic” or “ridged” is because of his interactions with gavalar. So he makes himself appear less flexible, and more “like a storm” to Dalinar. To have more power in their bond, so to speak. 
This does feel right. We have seen the stormfather do things that a “normal storm spren” wouldn’t do. Rather it be attacking kaladin in visions, to actually consider being a merciful storm. I think he is selling Dalinar short on what he (stormfather) can do.

that leads to a different question tho. Can the stormfather ascend into honor?

[Windrunner2319]

 

4 minutes ago, Rg2045 said:

I think this is the stormfather, the reason that he’s much more “dogmatic” or “ridged” is because of his interactions with gavalar. So he makes himself appear less flexible, and more “like a storm” to Dalinar. To have more power in their bond, so to speak. 
This does feel right. We have seen the stormfather do things that a “normal storm spren” wouldn’t do. Rather it be attacking kaladin in visions, to actually consider being a merciful storm. I think he is selling Dalinar short on what he (stormfather) can do.

that leads to a different question tho. Can the stormfather ascend into honor?

Mistborn Secret History Spoiler

Spoiler

Even if he could, he would have the same problem that Kelsier had in Secret History, without a body he would be ineffective

[Rg2045]

2 minutes ago, Windrunner2319 said:

 

Mistborn Secret History Spoiler

  Hide contents

Even if he could, he would have the same problem that Kelsier had in Secret History, without a body he would be ineffective

Good thing we know a certain herald that can help with that one problem 

[Returned]

Which video are people finding the new prologue in? Or is it tied to the Kickstarter?

[AerionBFII]

I don't know if this has been discussed but Shallans redheaded mother..... Did she die around the time of say.... Gavilars feast? 

[AerionBFII]

Just now, Returned said:

Which video are people finding the new prologue in? Or is it tied to the Kickstarter?

There is a link in Brandons most recent youtube video

[teknopathetic]

11 minutes ago, Rg2045 said:

I think this is the stormfather, the reason that he’s much more “dogmatic” or “ridged” is because of his interactions with gavalar. So he makes himself appear less flexible, and more “like a storm” to Dalinar. To have more power in their bond, so to speak. 
This does feel right. We have seen the stormfather do things that a “normal storm spren” wouldn’t do. Rather it be attacking kaladin in visions, to actually consider being a merciful storm. I think he is selling Dalinar short on what he (stormfather) can do.

that leads to a different question tho. Can the stormfather ascend into honor?

Why does the Modern Stormfather seemingly have no interest in making new Heralds, then? That is a pretty stark mission change.

We also have Syl and Kal's interactions with the Stormfather, and those also do not match well with Gavilar's version. 

[Returned]

Just now, AerionBFII said:

There is a link in Brandons most recent youtube video

Thank you! Sneaky.

[teknopathetic]

5 minutes ago, AerionBFII said:

I don't know if this has been discussed but Shallans redheaded mother..... Did she die around the time of say.... Gavilars feast? 

Here is my large post on it.
[Theory] Taln Wasn't the Herald Who Broke; It Was Chanarach - Cosmere Discussion - 17th Shard, the Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite

We also have CrossenuUp showing that she died almost, if not exactly, at the same time. 

  On 2/6/2021 at 9:58 PM, CROSSENuUP said:

After reading this and doing some investigating I think that Shallan's mom is Chanarach. If you look at the picture of  Chanarach and read the description of Shallan's mom they are very similar. Also, I had a theory that the breaking of Chanarach (after her death as Shallan's mom), not Taln, is what brought about this last desolation. Brandon is often quoted as saying that the desolation process started going down once Gavilar died so I looked up the dates of Gavilar's death and Shallan's mom's death. THEY WERE THE EXACT SAME MONTH.

Edited March 30, 2022 by teknopathetic

[AerionBFII]

1 minute ago, Returned said:

Thank you! Sneaky.

No problem!

 

 

1 minute ago, teknopathetic said:

[Theory] Taln Wasn't the Herald Who Broke; It Was Chanarach - Cosmere Discussion - 17th Shard, the Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite

She died almost, if not exactly, at the same time. 

I see as usual, am late to this party. Brilliant catch

Edited March 30, 2022 by AerionBFII

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, teknopathetic said:

Why does the Modern Stormfather seemingly have no interest in making new Heralds, then? That is a pretty stark mission change.

We also have Syl and Kal's interactions with the Stormfather, and those also do not match well with Gavilar's version. 

He seems convinced that the Oathpact was broken. So obviously he gave up on that avenue after the Everstorm came and(in his mind) rendered the Heralds useless.

[adouloumis]

I really like the Ishar hacked into the stormfather's connection with gavilar theory. Lines up with motives and the timeline. The StormFaker is more humanlike than the Stormfather and it would make sense for Ishar to want to replace himself with Gavilar.

Also we know Ishar is capable of this from RoW and that he has a strong connection to the other Heralds.

There is even the textual evidence of the Stormfather seeming like two people to Gavilar and seeing the Stormfather's face when StormFaker was distressed from the Herald's death.

As for the Words, it could refer to the Third Ideal of the Bondsmith -> give it to me (the responsibility) but not quite, or it could be something different. But perhaps to join the Oathpact you need an oath, and Ishar based the KR orders on that. 

[Frustration]

Also Ishar does not have future sight so how could he know Szeth was coming?

[Rg2045]

18 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Why does the Modern Stormfather seemingly have no interest in making new Heralds, then? That is a pretty stark mission change.

We also have Syl and Kal's interactions with the Stormfather, and those also do not match well with Gavilar's version. 

I’m sure that he rather 

a) was lying and was trying to do fool gavilar into becoming a bondsmith. 
or 

B.) was trying to replace the Heralds that broke their oaths. Possibly to “mend or fix” the oathpack. So that odium didn’t have a chance to escape. By the “loophole” that everyone kept talking about. 
 

Edit: also why would the stormfather choose a king to replace a herald? Simply because that’s what the original members were kings, scholars. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Rg2045

[duckbox]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall a highstorm happening during the prologue scene, or one being referenced on that day by anyone via any of the different editions of the prologue? 

Planning a huge feast on a day with a due highstorm seems a bit silly?

The Stormfather can only (apparently) send visions during a storm can he not?

[teknopathetic]

 

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Also Ishar does not have future sight so how could he know Szeth was coming?

It seemed as if the StormFaker got some kind of boost when the herald died? I am thinking something like when a certain mistborn character dies and get a bit of a flash of insight.