Discuss the Stormlight 5 Prologue Here

[AceBassMan]

On 9/15/2022 at 0:33 PM, teknopathetic said:

Sja-Anat thinks to herself at one point and says that  she wasn't fully conscious until the Everstom arrived. I think that makes Sja-Anat an unlikely candidate for the Stormfaker. At the same time though, how did she make Glys before the Everstorm if she was only semi-aware?  

"During the long millennia before this Return, she’d mostly slumbered. Without her bond to Odium she had trouble thinking. The Everstorm appearing in Shadesmar—long before it had emerged into the Physical Realm—had revitalized her. "

Found it! I thought your valid point was the end of the Sja-Anat-Stormfaker theory, but she says that The Everstorm was around long before it came to the physical realm, and I believe Ulim says the same thing. The Coppermind page says The Everstorm was around in Shadesmar centuries before it was summoned into the Physical Realm. So Sja-Anat could be very central in Rosharan scheming.

[teknopathetic]

1 hour ago, AceBassMan said:

"During the long millennia before this Return, she’d mostly slumbered. Without her bond to Odium she had trouble thinking. The Everstorm appearing in Shadesmar—long before it had emerged into the Physical Realm—had revitalized her. "

Found it! I thought your valid point was the end of the Sja-Anat-Stormfaker theory, but she says that The Everstorm was around long before it came to the physical realm, and I believe Ulim says the same thing. The Coppermind page says The Everstorm was around in Shadesmar centuries before it was summoned into the Physical Realm. So Sja-Anat could be very central in Rosharan scheming.

Great clarification and fair point. But still unclear if she was able to do anything in the Physical before the storm shifted to the physical. We dont see the many changes in the physical until the storm is finally summoned. But still, I will keep this theory in my mind! 

Edited September 19, 2022 by teknopathetic

[SarChasmFiend]

This isn’t really about the prologue, rather the book itself. 
 

I’ve been thinking about the interludes. Most of the interludes have shown themselves, so to speak. We have seen why they are there. If we don’t see in that book, we see it in the next or the novella in between. Kaza is actually the one that got me thinking. He has these breadcrumbs, and so many have come to fruition already, proving their usefulness. All except for two, that I could find. Chiri chiri and axes. 
 

so obviously chiri chiri’s interlude was there as the continuation of the rysn through line that has been there from book one, and he did that to obfuscate the goings on of dawnshard in the background, but there were still some promises made. I think we’ll see more progression from the Larkin in book five, probably leaving the really badass stuff for the back five. 
 

Axes, however, might be important for the first half. Less, axes, actually, more cusicesh. I don’t know how, but that is a promise that has not even been talked about since book one in text, and I’m beginning to think it will come out in book five. My opinion is that this is the last of the interludes needing wrapped up in the front half, and rysn is going to be our link into the back half, when she becomes super important in her dawnshardness

 

 

Quick aside, honor did say that the dawnshards were important to the humans cause, so perhaps Rysn will come to play more in five, but because the sleepless mentioned she would be all but useless with the power, I have a feeling this is for later use. 
 

what do you think?

[Isilel]

Ok, so it belatedly occurred to me that with Kelsier being the Ghostblood leader _and_ him being the creator of the Bonds of Mourning, he surely equips his senior agents with superior medallions that can have more than 3 abilities which are the max for SouthScads and are otherwise free of their limitations.Which would very tidily explain Mraize easily insinuating himself into various circles and passing as one of their own, despite not being particularly convincing as an actor according to Shallan and having a very memorable appearance. He may also be using F-Tin for spotting suspicious cremlings and such. 

Anyway, maybe that's what the clinking stuff in a sack that he bribed Raboniel with was? Presumably the medallions are known among the denizens of and travelers through the Cognitive realm by now.

[Wuestenfuchs]

I think the Chanarach  theory is pretty much proven, but this still raises an important question: What happened to her Honorblade?

In WoR Taravangian tells Seth one of the 7 Blades has disappeared. 

Seth has 1.

Nale has his.

Taln has his.

3+7=10, all blades are accounted for, so, where is Chana's? Did it remain because she unbounded it?

BTW, first post, greetings to you all.

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, Wuestenfuchs said:

I think the Chanarach  theory is pretty much proven, but this still raises an important question: What happened to her Honorblade?

In WoR Taravangian tells Seth one of the 7 Blades has disappeared. 

Seth has 1.

Nale has his.

Taln has his.

3+7=10, all blades are accounted for, so, where is Chana's? Did it remain because she unbounded it?

BTW, first post, greetings to you all.

Welcome to the Shard

It was a lie, Taravangian freaked out and lied to maintain control over Szeth and force him to fight Dalinar and Kaladin. If Szeth learned that Radiants are coming back, it would mean he was never a Truthless.

[Wuestenfuchs]

Just now, alder24 said:

Welcome to the Shard

It was a lie, Taravangian freaked out and lied to maintain control over Szeth and force him to fight Dalinar and Kaladin. If Szeth learned that Radiants are coming back, it would mean he was never a Truthless.

Firstly: I don't believe it was a lie, I think Taravangian used the fact that Ishar stole his own Shardblade to convince Szeth that Kaladin has a Shardblade.

But secondly, it doesn't matter what Taravangian says. Szeth must know there are 7 blades remaining (I believe he is the one who actually says the number 7).

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, Wuestenfuchs said:

Firstly: I don't believe it was a lie, I think Taravangian used the fact that Ishar stole his own Shardblade to convince Szeth that Kaladin has a Shardblade.

But secondly, it doesn't matter what Taravangian says. Szeth must know there are 7 blades remaining (I believe he is the one who actually says the number 7).

Ishar didn't stole his Honorblade until after OB - he said that Unmades were present in Shinovar, and only after OB, Shins started to behave weird (shooting arrows into Windrunners, something wrong in CR, no communication etc) everything was fine before OB, and Shins not only reported incoming Everstorm, but also congratulated Dalinar on finding Urithiru. Unmades appeared in Shinovar after OB, and only after that, Ishar reclaimed his Honorblade.

Also there is only one remaining Honorblade that allows to fly - which is in Nale's hands.

Taravangian really freaked out when he saw Szeth, as he thought that Szeth is gonna kill him. He then realised how unstable Szeth is, and sold him quick lie, to ease his madness. During fight with Dalinar and Kaladin, Szeth finnaly saw a sign that he wasn't a Truthless at all, and all killing he did was unnecessary. That messed him up even more. Taravangian needed to control he to fulfill Diagram. It wouldn't be the first or last time when Taravangian lied.

And Chana did unbound and abandon her Honorblade, so after her death, her blade should not disappear.

[Yomisma]

Just read this Prologue. Wow! I definitely have to reread all the books in the series.
By now it is clear that honorblade is not the same as shardblade, more like Soulcasters. And the Taln sheet is not the same, as at the beginning, and the author confirmed this.

Regarding the Stormfather, I have a feeling that there are two interspersed characters who interact with Gavilar. With Dalinar the Stormfather talks without desire or interest, only giving the Honor's videomessage.The other is more than alive and very interested in acting. It can't be the same thing or whoever.

 

[Elder]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:04 AM, Pagerunner said:

I'm looking forward to spending some time tonight going through it again in detail. A few thoughts and impressions (aside from the Chana Davar bit):

• I'm not sure if this Stormfather was really the Stormfather. Obviously, Gavilar's visions and the way the prologue Stormfather talks about Dalinar are points in favor of it being the true Stormfather. On the other hand, there are some notable differences with how he's manifesting: as an individual, and the distinctly Shard-like infinity sensation I seem to recall at the end. (That's one of the lines I want to get the exact wording.) I don't see it being Odium or another Herald manipulating Gavilar; I think, if this isn't the Stormfather, it's something very close to the Stormfather. A remnant of Honor, somehow; there's another line about "choosing to" vs "being commanded to" that make me think it's Tanavast pretending to be the Stormfather. But if it is the real Stormfather, his mission of choosing a new Herald (and then lying about stuff) and his active lying to Gavilar also throw a lot of his later interactions with Dalinar into question.
• Where did Gavilar get the anti-Voidlight? Also, what was the information that Gavilar tricked out of Thaidakar? I'm thinking they're one and the same, that Kelsier gave Gavilar the secret to creating anti-Voidlight.
• The Everstorm is still a bit of a mystery. I've gotta refresh myself a little bit on it; the storm was already in Shadesmar, I believe, back here when the Alethi first met the Parshendi, and it didn't get pulled into the Physical Realm into Words of Radiance. It allows transportation between Braize and Roshar, even from where it is in Shadesmar. But where did it come from in the first place?
• I had something else, but now I can't think of it, so I'll edit it in here after the transcription gets done and I can do some digging. But it was a good one, I promise. EDIT: I got it. It was Ba-Ado-Mishram as a "puzzle piece that doesn't fit," which is exactly how I've felt since RoW. Is Thaidakar interested in her, or was Kalak rambling about Odium or the Stormfather or someone when it came to "someone who could challenge him" or whatever that line was? (Ooooh, this makes me think of Stormfather as a secret villain again, like the first bullet point.)

EDIT2: Here are some longer thoughts on my first and last bullet points, with the actual quotes.

 

 

On 3/30/2022 at 11:09 AM, Serack said:

Redirect, moving away from the excitement about the reveal that a Herald dying that night, putting weight behind @teknopathic's theory:
I want to talk about what the heck was going on with The Stormfather being so different in how he manifested to Galivar. It was so different that I started suspecting it was an imposter manipulating him in the guise of The Stormfather and went back to the Arcanum and reviewed the WoB which confirmed that yes indeed Galivar had been receiving the same visions as Dalinar, from The Stormfather.  

So the big differences I can categorize are:

• The Stormfather would actually sometimes manifest as some shimmering being in the room when talking to Galivar which never happens for Dalinar.  
• There were several things recalled by Galvinar as having been told to him by The Stormfather that are /really/ deviant

1. Apparently was recruiting Galvinar to become a new, replacement Herald, attempting to rebuild a functioning Oathpact.
2. Presumed to have lied about the Heralds dying and going back to Braize.  I wish I had the text to review the details of what Galivar recollected of this.  

Just gonna point out, the Stormfather rarely manifests this way, but it does happen in Rhythm of War:

“The Stormfather appeared beside him, moving in the air alongside Dalinar—a rare occurrence. The Stormfather never had features. Merely a vague impression of a figure the same size as Dalinar, yet extending into infinity.“

- Rhythm of War, pg.  1132

[LilyBlossom9876]

Everyone is talking about this already, but the Stormfather is super off...

AND in addition, someone asked Sanderson about that later and his answer was in a dead serious tone, "What? What do you mean? The stormfather's ALWAYS like that"

[alder24]

15 hours ago, LilyBlossom9876 said:

Everyone is talking about this already, but the Stormfather is super off...

AND in addition, someone asked Sanderson about that later and his answer was in a dead serious tone, "What? What do you mean? The stormfather's ALWAYS like that"

Yes, there is something weird about him. There are multiple theories that it might be someone impersonating him, most notably Ishar, but others like Tanavest’s Cognitive Shadow, Nohadon, Odium, Cultivation are also mentioned. Others claim that Stormfather is just lying to Gavilar, and later changed his methods with Dalinar. If you want to read more about this, check this out:

 

[Stigmadiabolicum]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:13 AM, Serack said:

Between this new info about Galivar presumably being recruited to serve as a new Herald and this line from secret project #4

  Reveal hidden contents

You didn’t do anything when my friends and I were dying to arrows all those years ago.  I went to Damnation then, and you sat around playing a flute.

I suspect some new Oathpact with new Heralds that are sent to Damnation will be formed.

So i get thinking this is future book 5 events..but this is clearly referring to Way of Kings, when he was a bridgeman literally facing arrows, figuratively going to damnation, and  when Kal met Hoid playing a flute, before he was a radiant and would have been happy to see his master.

[AFdooda]

Wait what? Stormlight 5 has a prologue that can be read!?

Please tell me! Where can I find this!?

I can't believe I never noticed...

[alder24]

6 hours ago, AFdooda said:

Wait what? Stormlight 5 has a prologue that can be read!?

Please tell me! Where can I find this!?

I can't believe I never noticed...

Oh yeah, here you go: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/495-prologue-to-stormlight-book-five/ 

And on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7IAXaDWdKU

 

[AFdooda]

17 hours ago, alder24 said:

here you go

This is a miracle I never knew happened.

 

[Stigmadiabolicum]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:43 AM, honorblades said:

I believe Dalinar only begins to bond the Stormfather after his visit to Cultivation, after which he is a very different person. Could be that the Stormfather saw that and changed his mind? 

Sorry to necro, just finished reread 10 & getting depressed we have another year (let alone til 2040 for SA10 hahah)

But Dalinar definitely has a vision while hes drunk chilling at the Inn right before he heads into the valley to meet Cultivation. Its vague and disjointed, and he discounts it at the time. Its one of the visions hed mentioned at the end of WoK/beginning of WoR that hed seen already, but was way before hed started remembering and interacting with them.

Maybe it started after renarins hug, or specifically after Jasnah read the way of kings to him at gavilars funeral, right before he marched off to the plains and took his detour to the NW. (Lending credence to the theories his mysterious Connection to Nohadon/Beyond started after that initial reading of WoK)

Honestly, as awesome as the prologue is, especially basically confirming Shallans mom, and as beautiful as Kals chapters are, i wish there was discussions on Szeths flashback chapters, just life in shinovar, him following the stew instructions haha, its got a lot of little tidbits

At least we have SP4 coming soon, hoping its as much of a cosmere bonus info book as TLM/Tress & the Dusk 2 prologue was haha. He did say it was made for us cosmere aware fans. I know he wants to keep them being accessible to new people, but after a decade i really hope he just goes all-in now, not wait til era 3/4.

[Zackarcanum]

On the topic of stormlight 5 what do you guys think of this?

 

 

[Firesong]

I hope we get more on Chana and Shallan in this book. Brandon is pretty clear she is her mother

• Both have flaming red hair (supported by the prologue and by the art and her description in the flashbacks)
• Her mother has green eyes as well, also shown in the art
• Her mother tried to kill her when she found out she was a nascent Radiant
• Chana appeared in the first two books, and the way it was worded implied she wasn't seen many times or by many characters
• The way he responded when asked if her mom was a Herald is pretty telling
• Shallan considered her mother brave (WoR 45), and Brave is one of the Divine Attributes attributing with Chanarach
• Heralds tend to show an inverse of their attributes, and from what we see of her mother, she is absolutely terrified of the return of the Knights Radiant, to the point of losing her sanity. 
• The Body focus of Chach is the Soul, and Shallan associated Testament as a blade with her mother's soul
• She had associated in the Skybreakers trying to stop the return of the Radiants
• The prologue said a Herald died in late 1167, Shallan's mother was killed in late 1167
• Said prologue also mentioned Chanarach specifically near the beginning 
•  

Quote

Wetlander

Speaking of the other Prologues… I have a looney theory that the assassin Liss is actually the Herald Chana in disguise.

Peter Ahlstrom

Chanaranach has definitely been seen onscreen by at least one character at least one time in the first two books.

Quote

Questioner

Was Shallan's mom a Herald?

Brandon Sanderson

What would make you ask that? The chat, why would they ask that? The Stormfather said that the Heralds-- that that's impossible.

Like, this is so obvious it starts to kind of leave the realm of theory and become just, not-yet-spoken canon. But we can't accept it as canon until they explicitly say it. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Firesong

[KnightoftheCosmere]

Something interesting I noticed while rereading Oathbringer is that the Stormfather says "In these millennia none [of the Heralds] have ever died and returned to Damnation" (OB cp 38).  As the SF from the prologue senses the death of a Herald, that means if the "Stormfather" from the prologue is really him then he flat out lied to Dalinar in Oathbringer.

 

[Firesong]

On 7/20/2023 at 8:01 AM, KnightoftheCosmere said:

Something interesting I noticed while rereading Oathbringer is that the Stormfather says "In these millennia none [of the Heralds] have ever died and returned to Damnation" (OB cp 38).  As the SF from the prologue senses the death of a Herald, that means if the "Stormfather" from the prologue is really him then he flat out lied to Dalinar in Oathbringer.

 

Or, maybe it wasn't a lie. He said "died and returned to damnation", we see when Heralds die and return to Damnation, they are not detected. As you can see in the Prelude. But, when a Herald permanently dies, like Jezrien, they do.  As shown at the end of Oathbringer and in Kalak's epigraphs. So... He would actually be telling the truth. Just omitting the fact that a Herald has permanently died, just not returned to Damnation. That is a possibility.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Firesong

[MadMax634]

 Storms, I don't even understand half of what was said in here 

[Highprince10]

On 7/18/2023 at 3:26 PM, Firesong said:

• Said prologue also mentioned Chanarach specifically near the beginning 
•  

I feel like the fact that Chana was specifically called out is the biggest thing supporting this theory why would Sanderson mention the red hair if it wasn't relevant to the plot. The fact so many other things line up with this the only thing I am surprised about is how long Chana lasted on Braize 

[Aredor]

On 2/7/2024 at 10:39 AM, Highprince10 said:

 the only thing I am surprised about is how long Chana lasted on Braize 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Fused didn't do anything to her and just let her be on her own. Over the 4,500 years in between Aharietiam and the True Desolation, she must have gained some strength back, enough to not instantly submit to the Fused, especially if they were simply biding their time until the True Desolation. Odium had a very complicated plan to start the True Desolation, so when Chana showed up, he might have thought "hey... I can use this."

Edited February 10 by Aredor

[alder24]

13 hours ago, Aredor said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the Fused didn't do anything to her and just let her be on her own. Over the 4,500 years in between Aharietiam and the True Desolation, she must have gained some strength back, enough to not instantly submit to the Fused, especially if they were simply biding their time until the True Desolation. Odium had a very complicated plan to start the True Desolation, so when Chana showed up, he might have thought "hey... I can use this."

Oh no, she definitely wouldn't have gotten "stronger," she is even more broken than before, fully insane with layers of PTSD. She would have broken down immediately after being caught.

I think there is some truth to Shallan seeing her mother's soul behind the painting. Most Fused were in a slumber at that time and Heralds once they arrive on Braize spend some time hiding before they are eventually catched and tortured. In my opinion at first, something happened with her soul in the safe, then she faded to Braize, but because most Fused were asleep and those who weren't were busy torturing Taln, she could have hidden for much longer than normally. Nobody would have expected a Herald to suddenly show up on Braize after 4500 years and that gave her a bit more time to hide.