Discuss the Stormlight 5 Prologue Here

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Well, crem, Brandon's managed to throw everything into shambles again. For the time being, please keep all discussion about the prologue to Book Five in this thread.

[+Crossen]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:58 PM, CROSSENuUP said:

After reading this and doing some investigating I think that Shallan's mom is Chanarach. If you look at the picture of  Chanarach and read the description of Shallan's mom they are very similar. Also, I had a theory that the breaking of Chanarach (after her death as Shallan's mom), not Taln, is what brought about this last desolation. Brandon is often quoted as saying that the desolation process started going down once Gavilar died so I looked up the dates of Gavilar's death and Shallan's mom's death. THEY WERE THE EXACT SAME MONTH.

Confirmed now?

[KandraAllomancer]

Good to know, I was just starting a new topic

Not what I've expected, really. Gavilar seems to be dead, with no plans made of surviving as a Cognitive Shadow. 

This chapter humanizes him (and Sadeas) to some extent - his final reaction to the Stormfather's lies is still extremely satisfying, though.

Apparently Gavilar has been working with Thaidakar on starting a Desolation - assuming the math done by @CROSSENuUP here is correct, it seems that Shallan managed to do it before them.

The original goal of the visions seems to have been tricking someone into taking Taln's place. I still wonder - what words (or attitude, or actions) did the Stornfather expect from Gavilar? The First Ideal? What was the thing about Gavilar's demand being close about, then?

We get Taravangian's origin story, kind of. I'm not sure if the new Death Rattle is a general warning against the Desolation, or something that will actually happen in the books.

Gavilar's last words make much more sense now.

Edited March 30, 2022 by KandraAllomancer

[teknopathetic]

I am so excited my Shallan killed her mother-herald theory is looking very likely! 

Edit: link to theory 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by teknopathetic

[Epimus]

2 hours ago, CROSSENuUP said:

Confirmed now?

We know that Shallan killed her mother in the same month Gavilar was assassinated. Coincidentally we have - as you implied- just gotten the confirmaton that a herald died shortly before Gavilar's death - which is likely to be the one that broke, because another herald dying wouldn't be a meaningful plot point otherwise. 

Shallan might as well have killed her mother on the same day if it is already the same month, lining up perfectly with the events and that theory.

It would seem that this theory is most likely correct.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Epimus
Formatting

[Serack]

More evidence @teknopathetichad it on the money

[Infinity Sliver]

Is there going to be a written version released? does anyone know?

[cometaryorbit]

Hmm. I really didn't like that theory (I was on the "no Herald needed to break, the Everstorm was enough" team).

[Serack]

Just now, cometaryorbit said:

Hmm. I really didn't like that theory (I was on the "no Herald needed to break, the Everstorm was enough" team).

I don’t think the 2 have to be mutually exclusive.  The everstorm probably was enough, but Chararch might have greased the skids

[KandraAllomancer]

1 minute ago, Serack said:

I don’t think the 2 have to be mutually exclusive.  The everstorm probably was enough, but Chararch might have greased the skids

The way I see it, both Odium and Thaidakar & Gavilar have been working on this - Chana's death threw a wrench into the works, starting it earlier than expected

[Nathrangking]

Many people have been wondering whether the stormfather we see is he. Some of the behavior/appearance is strange. Which means that information that he gives us may be unreliable. Can we also stop for a minute to appreciate that Gavilar was far less competent than he thought that he was? It was so good to watch him be oblivious to all of the wonderful secrets playing out around him.

[Pagerunner]

I'm looking forward to spending some time tonight going through it again in detail. A few thoughts and impressions (aside from the Chana Davar bit):

• I'm not sure if this Stormfather was really the Stormfather. Obviously, Gavilar's visions and the way the prologue Stormfather talks about Dalinar are points in favor of it being the true Stormfather. On the other hand, there are some notable differences with how he's manifesting: as an individual, and the distinctly Shard-like infinity sensation I seem to recall at the end. (That's one of the lines I want to get the exact wording.) I don't see it being Odium or another Herald manipulating Gavilar; I think, if this isn't the Stormfather, it's something very close to the Stormfather. A remnant of Honor, somehow; there's another line about "choosing to" vs "being commanded to" that make me think it's Tanavast pretending to be the Stormfather. But if it is the real Stormfather, his mission of choosing a new Herald (and then lying about stuff) and his active lying to Gavilar also throw a lot of his later interactions with Dalinar into question.
• Where did Gavilar get the anti-Voidlight? Also, what was the information that Gavilar tricked out of Thaidakar? I'm thinking they're one and the same, that Kelsier gave Gavilar the secret to creating anti-Voidlight.
• The Everstorm is still a bit of a mystery. I've gotta refresh myself a little bit on it; the storm was already in Shadesmar, I believe, back here when the Alethi first met the Parshendi, and it didn't get pulled into the Physical Realm into Words of Radiance. It allows transportation between Braize and Roshar, even from where it is in Shadesmar. But where did it come from in the first place?
• I had something else, but now I can't think of it, so I'll edit it in here after the transcription gets done and I can do some digging. But it was a good one, I promise. EDIT: I got it. It was Ba-Ado-Mishram as a "puzzle piece that doesn't fit," which is exactly how I've felt since RoW. Is Thaidakar interested in her, or was Kalak rambling about Odium or the Stormfather or someone when it came to "someone who could challenge him" or whatever that line was? (Ooooh, this makes me think of Stormfather as a secret villain again, like the first bullet point.)

EDIT2: Here are some longer thoughts on my first and last bullet points, with the actual quotes.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Pagerunner

[Serack]

Redirect, moving away from the excitement about the reveal that a Herald dying that night, putting weight behind @teknopathic's theory:
I want to talk about what the heck was going on with The Stormfather being so different in how he manifested to Galivar. It was so different that I started suspecting it was an imposter manipulating him in the guise of The Stormfather and went back to the Arcanum and reviewed the WoB which confirmed that yes indeed Galivar had been receiving the same visions as Dalinar, from The Stormfather.  

So the big differences I can categorize are:

• The Stormfather would actually sometimes manifest as some shimmering being in the room when talking to Galivar which never happens for Dalinar.  
• There were several things recalled by Galvinar as having been told to him by The Stormfather that are /really/ deviant

1. Apparently was recruiting Galvinar to become a new, replacement Herald, attempting to rebuild a functioning Oathpact.
2. Presumed to have lied about the Heralds dying and going back to Braize.  I wish I had the text to review the details of what Galivar recollected of this.  

[Serack]

Between this new info about Galivar presumably being recruited to serve as a new Herald and this line from secret project #4

Spoiler

You didn’t do anything when my friends and I were dying to arrows all those years ago.  I went to Damnation then, and you sat around playing a flute.

I suspect some new Oathpact with new Heralds that are sent to Damnation will be formed.

[teknopathetic]

"The world ended, and Shallan was to blame.

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 10. 
Mentioned by @honorblades

[HippoPhileus]

I really liked it.

• Gavilar was trying to become a Herald, and the Stormfather (or like Pagerunner said, whoever this is) was helping him!? Does this mean the Stormfather chose Dalinar as a candidate to become a Herald?
• Brandon specifically mentioned Chararch's red hair, and I think that is intentional to lead us to think she is Shallan's mother. Whether or not she is we'll find out (hopefully in SA5), but I almost don't want her to be Shallan's mom. I think there is enough weirdness around Shallan's family as it is, between the Unmade, the Cryptics, the Ghostbloods, family issues.
• I really really want to know what Gavilar learned from Thaidakar.
• Kelsier as a seon in a trenchcoat! I love it.
• What are "the most important words a man can say?" I guess swearing to become a Herald is similar to swearing to become a Radiant, which is not quite what I pictured.
• I may be forgetting something from Elantris, but have we seen seons do what Kelsier's seon did in this prologue? It turned almost transparent and manipulated its form. Good to know this is possible for my Alleyverse character...
•  This whole prologue is crazy. I like the little bit of character it adds to Gavilar (though he's still a horrible person), and the character development for Dalinar. I think it helps with the transition from the Blackthorn to who he is in WoK.

That's all I have for now! I'm so excited for SA5.

[adouloumis]

Woah. 

 

[Mat]

Maybe the part I liked the best was the bit of Gavilar redemption. After RoW, he was cast in a super negative light, and I'm glad that in his mind his view of Navani isn't what Navani perceived it was. I remember seeing a joke/meme awhile ago, about the prologues-

• Book One- Who's Gavilar?
• Book Two- Noooo, Gavilar!
• Book Three- Wait, what's up with this Gavilar guy?
• Book Four- Storm this Gavilar guy!
• Book Five- KILL HIM, SZETH! GO! GO!

Or something like that  But I'm glad that it ended up not being like that.

[Frustration]

Well, Brandon knows how to break everything.

So it seems that the Stormfather is much more reserved with Dalinar than he was with Gavilar. I wonder if he decided to go with Dalinar anyway after Dalinar went to the Nightwatcher.

Kelsier was much more involved than I thought, but I think that he was only helpful in bringing Voidlight to Roshar, I don't think he knows about anti-investiture or Pure Tones.

THE STORMFATHER CAN LIE! This is really weird for me and I'm not sure how to feel.

Also where was Gavilar's PoV for his interaction with Jasnah?

[HippoPhileus]

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Maybe the part I liked the best was the bit of Gavilar redemption. After RoW, he was cast in a super negative light, and I'm glad that in his mind his view of Navani isn't what Navani perceived it was. I remember seeing a joke/meme awhile ago, about the prologues-

• Book One- Who's Gavilar?
• Book Two- Noooo, Gavilar!
• Book Three- Wait, what's up with this Gavilar guy?
• Book Four- Storm this Gavilar guy!
• Book Five- KILL HIM, SZETH! GO! GO!

Or something like that  But I'm glad that it ended up not being like that.

I agree, and I think that's hilarious 

[teknopathetic]

On 3/30/2022 at 0:26 PM, Frustration said:

 

THE STORMFATHER CAN LIE! This is really weird for me and I'm not sure how to feel.

 

I am not sure we are seeing the Stormfather. More likely an Unmade or something else along those lines? 

Edit: Now I believe it was Ishar or Nohadon

Edited April 1, 2022 by teknopathetic

[NameIess]

Well, I was expecting Gavilar to be a little more competent, but I guess he's just like Amaram, merely slightly more Cosmere aware. Although the 'Stormfather' was lying to him about basically everything, so I can't really blame him.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Nameless

[Nathrangking]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Maybe the part I liked the best was the bit of Gavilar redemption. After RoW, he was cast in a super negative light, and I'm glad that in his mind his view of Navani isn't what Navani perceived it was. I remember seeing a joke/meme awhile ago, about the prologues-

• Book One- Who's Gavilar?
• Book Two- Noooo, Gavilar!
• Book Three- Wait, what's up with this Gavilar guy?
• Book Four- Storm this Gavilar guy!
• Book Five- KILL HIM, SZETH! GO! GO!

Or something like that  But I'm glad that it ended up not being like that.

It's more like: 

• Book One- Gavilar?
• Book Two- Gaivilar?!?
• Book Three- Gavilar ???
• Book Four- Storm this Gavilar guy!!!!???
• Book Five- Ahh Gavilar!!

[Frustration]

Just now, teknopathetic said:

I am not sure we are seeing the Stormfather. More likely an Unmade or something else along those lines? 

I have to disagree.

1. He can show the visions
2. He has the same goal
3. He has the same speaking patterns and temperment
4. He can tell when a Herald died and recognise Heralds
5. Gavilar was on the path to Bondsmith

[HippoPhileus]

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

Gavilar was on the path to Bondsmith

Was he on the path to be a Bondsmith? I didn't get that from this but maybe I missed something. I thought his only goal was to become a Herald, not Bond the Stormfather.