SP4 - To quote TV Tropes, "Ambition is Evil"

[Ixthos]

There are several topics I still want to reply to, but this is one of two posts I felt needed to be made, and something that I've been thinking more and more about recently, and I think this is likely strongly linked to The Sunlit Man, and the overall Cosmere story. I'll try to be brief. This mainly focuses on three points:

• The local magic system likely is powered by a remnant of Ambition, possibly interacting with the warped state of the Threnodites who live there;
• The Nigh Brigade may be Threnodites themselves, or led by remnants of Ambition, and;
• Ambition likely was the one Shard that had the greatest designs on the rest of the Cosmere, and the other Shards.

 

Still trying to be brief, I will elaborate on each point.

The local magic system has three facets shown thus far - it powers the local equipment, it turns those the Cinder King chooses into his own mixed brand of Inquisitors / Koloss / Awakened / Shades, and the Cinder King himself is somehow a self-controlled version of the ember warriors. Focusing on the last two points, I will make this note - I have personally felt that Ambition is the Shard most likely to see people as a resource, something to warp and change as one wants to further ones own ends. This is speculation on my part, but I think both sides of this are shown with the Cinder King and the ember warriors. For the ember warriors, they were people the Cinder King deemed useful and then forcibly changed, turning them into a type of undead that obey him - as seen with Elegy, who likely didn't consent to the procedure and fought against him, but now is a near animal under his control, likely because of the change. This is a combination of Inquisitors and Koloss, making empowered warriors matching Inquisitors, and turning those who once fought against you into monsters for Koloss. They also are in a sense corpses animated by magic now also, similar to Inquisitors (I know that is debatable, but I personally see Inquisitors as a type of undead) and the Awakening (even putting aside the comparison drawn to Awakened corpses rising that Nomad made), albeit rather than taking a dead body and making it serve it is in effect killing a live person and warping them - though perhaps there is a way to reverse it, or grant them self control if they truly are lacking it. They also mirror Shades - note what Aux and Nomad discuss:

Quote

“That I did pick out,” he said, thoughtful.  “Threnodites.  Don’t they…persist when they’re killed?”

They turn into shades, under the right circumstances, the knight explained to his dull-minded squire.  Who really should remember almost being eaten by one.

“Right,” he said.  “Red eyes.  Complete lack of memories.  I feel like we would have seen those, though.  Shades come out in the darkness, and we’ve been in nothing but darkness since getting here.”

Perhaps this group split off before the Shard’s death—and the event’s after-effects—took them.

I think Aux is wrong about that last part. I think the Cinder King's ember warriors are the result of the local remnant of Ambition - remember, Ambition left chunks in the Threnodite system, and then fled and died elsewhere (*cough* Silverlight *cough*), and thus could have left remnants in other systems. I think this is the result of the interaction of two different splinters of Ambition, the splinters left in the Threnodite people, and the local magic - it allows those who otherwise would become Shades to be transformed into something effectively undead, still losing the person who once was that body, but now in an actual body rather than as a Cognitive Shadow. Rather than the dead Threnodites becoming Shades - and perhaps the sun of this world would destroy any Shades that did form, and consider their aversion to killing - they are instead possibly killed and turned into physical cadavers, still lacking their original memories and still undead.

The Cinder King himself is the flipside of this. At first I thought he was implied to be someone who was still in the process of turning into an ember warrior, but it now after seeing someone else forceably transformed, it seems clear he somehow is someone who retained human will, possibly a closer to human anatomy without the full loss of his chest - or at least that loss is hidden - and implicitly some sort of touch-based power that Nomad is immune to. And he is implied to be ambitious, taking over columns, and changing people - he is a sentient, self-aware and self-controlled version of the otherwise hapless victims of the embers, and has desires to expand his control and turn people into his tools - he is ambitious.

 

Trying to be brief(er), the last two points will be somewhat more summarised - I'm trying to be brief but I might be rambling slightly. We know Brandon wants to make a novel called Dust Brigade, set on Threnody. It is therefore likely the Night Brigade are themselves Threnodites as well, though human or otherwise it isn't clear. They are hunting Sigzil - and possibly would also be interested in hunting Hoid - either with or to gain access to the Dawnshard Sigzil either has or had, as it isn't exactly clear where it is or if the Night Brigade has or wants to have a Dawnshard, or all of them. Either way, they also are seemingly displaying great Ambition, and are implied to be a threat to any world Sigzil, Nomad, remains on. Thus they may be one of the powers of Threnody the Ire were aware of, and as they likely have Ambition based Investiture, splintered though it may be, they may have large scale designs on the entire Cosmere, and the worlds and even the Shards within.

 

Finally, we know Odium wanted to kill Ambition first, and Endowment thought Ambition would have been a threat - maybe Odium did the Cosmere a solid by killing Ambition - with Mercy, something implicitly at least partially a counter to Ambition (and see my theory on how Odium exploits the dissonance between Shards to take on multiple Shards at once, Odium's power being that of opposition and disagreement just as Honour is of bonds and Cultivation is of growth) - so it seems likely, especially considering Endowment sees the Shards as things that should be separate, that Ambition may have wanted to reunite the Shards to become stronger, the most Ambitious goal a Shard could have, even more so than Odium's. If anything of Uli Da remains, or anything is affected by Ambitions Intent, it likely is a threat to the Cosmere greater even than Odium - Odium may be the most dangerous Shard, the Shard that would plunge the Cosmere into war, stoking hatred and violence, but Ambition, or anything powered by it, would seek to become stronger and stronger, and while Odium would revel in war and may change people, Ambition would see the life in the Cosmere as a resource, and it may be what emerges under its control - or anything that is a remnant of Ambition - may be worse off than a Shade or ember warrior, with even less agency.

[apepi]

I kind of have a bet that this could could be Ambition based, so I hope this is true.

It could try to tell us the history of Ambition fighting Odium and what happened there, which then lead Odium to going to Roshar(potentially damaged). That is why having a bit of stormlight knowledge helps(besides just there being Sigzil as the MC).

[King-A-Train]

I completely agree it’s likely to be Ambition’s magic system. To add to your points:

1.  The people of the planet have to constantly “move forward” every day. 

2.  Those that are invested have a “burning” heart inside of them. 

Could be grasping at straws, but we know Brandon likes his word play.

[cometaryorbit]

Odium as primarily the Shard of opposition makes a lot of sense, given the line in RoW about how Rayse didn't like being contradicted but the power of Odium enjoyed it.

Also would allow it to be a bit broader than just Hatred (incorporating rage, fear etc.) but not all emotion like Rayse claimed.

[lacrossedeamon]

I think that Autonomy might have also influenced this system. I see similarities in the how investiture is delivered here with how it done on Taldain, ie solar based. This system could have been a prototype that was later refined in Taldain.

Maybe after Ambition’s clash with Odium and fled here Autonomy found them and finished the job.

[Ixthos]

On 3/27/2022 at 0:50 AM, apepi said:

I kind of have a bet that this could could be Ambition based, so I hope this is true.

It could try to tell us the history of Ambition fighting Odium and what happened there, which then lead Odium to going to Roshar(potentially damaged). That is why having a bit of stormlight knowledge helps(besides just there being Sigzil as the MC).

Agreed - I imagine of all the Shards Odium could face that Ambition, number one on the hit list even if it was the third one fought, caused the most damage to Odium in their conflict. And Odium's join history with Roshar and Ambition would be an interesting twist in the story - perhaps when Ambiton was being torn apart it managed to grab some of Odium in the process, and some of that power is present on this world too.

 

On 3/28/2022 at 5:42 PM, King-A-Train said:

I completely agree it’s likely to be Ambition’s magic system. To add to your points:

1.  The people of the planet have to constantly “move forward” every day. 

2.  Those that are invested have a “burning” heart inside of them. 

Could be grasping at straws, but we know Brandon likes his word play.

I fully agree, and nice catches! Those match Ambition well, especially how all-consuming Ambition can literally be.

 

On 3/28/2022 at 11:46 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Odium as primarily the Shard of opposition makes a lot of sense, given the line in RoW about how Rayse didn't like being contradicted but the power of Odium enjoyed it.

Also would allow it to be a bit broader than just Hatred (incorporating rage, fear etc.) but not all emotion like Rayse claimed.

Thanks! 

 

On 3/30/2022 at 6:01 AM, lacrossedeamon said:

I think that Autonomy might have also influenced this system. I see similarities in the how investiture is delivered here with how it done on Taldain, ie solar based. This system could have been a prototype that was later refined in Taldain.

Maybe after Ambition’s clash with Odium and fled here Autonomy found them and finished the job.

That could be the case, though I feel that Autonomy tries to divest itself of as little power as possible - all the magic we've seen associated with Autonomy seems low strength, and the Sand Lord tried to wipe out Sand Masters. Those could be coincidences, but it does suggest Autonomy doesn't like expending power, and the sunlight is very powerful. Still that does make sense, interesting suggestion - I especially like the idea Autonomy may have completed the death of Ambition - and perhaps that is where Trell came from. I still hold to the theory Silverlight is where Ambition died, but your suggestion is a cool one