Long Game 84: A Sel United

[Kasimir]

Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I'm not sure why you think Tani claiming to have scanned Baker helps clear the Fjorden Elantrian.

My thought would be that they're unlikely E/E (on the assumption of a two man team, one of them has to put in the kill!), and on top of that, for them to have correctly scanned Baker's action is moderately risky, and requires at least one of them to have put in the scan. I guess I could see a world in which one of them made the scan, and shared it in the Evil doc, and then both of them are using it, so maybe that's the escape hatch you're thinking of, in which case, I'm fine reintroducing the Fjorden Elantrian into the pool. It'd basically have to be that, since the Fjorden scan claim came prior to Tani's, at least in thread.

While I'd like to be able to mech-clear the Fjorden Elantrian, in retrospect, I don't think we have as much room to maneuver—I've claimed Regular, Sart's action is distinctive, and scanning TJ won't guarantee that the Fjorden isn't putting in a NK, since TJ's action is only a Day one. (Night scan might be interesting, but you can't verify that unless the Fjorden gets a target back.)

The only way I can see it being done is Tani RNGs a target and the Fjorden Elantrian scans her, and Tani corroborates if it's correct or wrong, but that's also easily disrupted.

Point is, I'm favouring 4:3:2 more, I think.

[Quivil]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

Baker is not in anyone's pool of three right now! You are! >>

Baker's in Mat's pool. @Matrim's Dice I guess you're not Anyone. Are you Someone?

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

This makes sense - Fjorden claims that Baker didn't act either. If we're lynching Bort, then there's no reason to scan Bort. I'm starting to continue to believe I'd prefer JNV, but need to re-read. What is your scan history? Who did you scan on previous cycles?

C1: General Conference. Forgot to scan.

C2: Illwei. She died.

C3: Baker.

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

What's the point of me putting a reads list if you're not gonna read it smh >>

I read it, I just wasnt sure how to take that comment. (In my small experience, people usually use "gut" to mean "negative")

7 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I'm not sure why you think Tani claiming to have scanned Baker helps clear the Fjorden Elantrian.

Because it's less likely that we're both Village or that one of us is playing possum than that one or both of us fakeclaimed. I think.

[Kasimir]

Just now, Tani said:

Baker's in Mat's pool. @Matrim's Dice I guess you're not Anyone. Are you Someone?

Mat also explicitly said due to the Fjorden results, he's not gung-ho on Baker. Assumed he was sitting on the scan results until now.

Just now, Tani said:

C2: Illwei. She died.

Wait. Are you Day scanning or Night scanning. Because you can scan either in the Day or at Night. If Day, why for the love of God are you Day scanning???

1 minute ago, Tani said:

I read it, I just wasnt sure how to take that comment. (In my small experience, people usually use "gut" to mean "negative")

Yeah, was more trolling you, sorry. But I do mean positive gut read in this case. 

2 minutes ago, Tani said:

Because it's less likely that we're both Village or that one of us is playing possum than that one or both of us fakeclaimed. I think.

10 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I'm not sure why you think Tani claiming to have scanned Baker helps clear the Fjorden Elantrian.

Maybe the better way to put it is that in a four man team world, it is impossible for there to be a NK and for them to have actually scanned Baker as they claimed, due to action limits. The fact there was a Night Kill categorically entails that one of them had to not have scanned, if they were Evil. The two escape hatches I can see are: A. the F!Elantrian lied, deciding it was acceptable risk given the number of regulars, and/or B. Tani lied, by simply repeating the Baker result ( @Tani - Did you claim your Baker scan results in your doc at any point? Was this prior to Mat's reveal in the thread? @The Baker Can you corroborate this?)

In a five man team world, basically entails a Fjorden Elantrian/Tani team. I'm currently leaning V on Tani so I'm not super sold on this world.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

5 minutes ago, Tani said:

Because it's less likely that we're both Village or that one of us is playing possum than that one or both of us fakeclaimed. I think.

How much roleclaiming happened before Illwei died D2? Would the elims have known that Baker is roleless?

[Quivil]

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

If Day, why for the love of cookies are you Day scanning???

... That's a very good question.

I'm sorry!

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Maybe the better way to put it is that in a four man team world, it is impossible for there to be a NK and for them to have actually scanned Baker as they claimed, due to action limits. The fact there was a Night Kill categorically entails that one of them had to not have scanned, if they were Evil. The two escape hatches I can see are: A. the F!Elantrian lied, deciding it was acceptable risk given the number of regulars, and/or B. Tani lied, by simply repeating the Baker result ( @Tani - Did you claim your Baker scan results in your doc at any point? Was this prior to Mat's reveal in the thread? @The Baker Can you corroborate this?)

I... didn't actually realize most of what was going on, and only realized that people knew Baker hadn't done anything after you started talking about it.

Also, my scan is useless because it was a day scan. I'm sorry again.

No, I didn't claim the Baker scan results in the doc.

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

While I'd like to be able to mech-clear the Fjorden Elantrian, in retrospect, I don't think we have as much room to maneuver—I've claimed Regular, Sart's action is distinctive, and scanning TJ won't guarantee that the Fjorden isn't putting in a NK, since TJ's action is only a Day one. (Night scan might be interesting, but you can't verify that unless the Fjorden gets a target back.)

The only way I can see it being done is Tani RNGs a target and the Fjorden Elantrian scans her, and Tani corroborates if it's correct or wrong, but that's also easily disrupted.

I'm willing to do this in the night.

3 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

How much roleclaiming happened before Illwei died D2? Would the elims have known that Baker is roleless?

I don't think Baker has ever roleclaimed? (How would Baker roleclaim in bread? Am I missing another thing?)

Edited April 12, 2022 by Tani

[Kasimir]

But also @Devotary of Spontaneity - It's 7AM, I have not slept since I woke up with a migraine. Which is another way of me saying—I trust you at working out scenarios probably more than I trust now!Kas, or even normal!functioning!Kas. Is there an escape hatch you're seeing that I'm not, based off where my thoughts currently are?

1 minute ago, Tani said:

I don't think Baker has ever roleclaimed? (How would Baker roleclaim in bread? Am I missing another thing?)

Baker roleclaimed vanilla (i.e. regular.) Check his image out. Very clever, very delicious.

2 minutes ago, Tani said:

Also, my scan is useless because it was a day scan. I'm sorry again.

Laugh-crying :joy:  

3 minutes ago, Tani said:

I'm willing to do this in the night.

Don't put in a scan action today, I think. Night scans are more helpful because we want to be able to catch the Elims making the kill. Please, no more Day scans  

Okay, so the dual clear line of thought is out. I need more painkillers before I can come back to this, sorry  Someone take over for a while!

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

6 minutes ago, Tani said:

I don't think Baker has ever roleclaimed? (How would Baker roleclaim in bread? Am I missing another thing?)

The vanilla cake image after self-tagging. Had Baker claimed in the doc D2 or earlier, it would be easy for E!lantrian to claim a null result. Since they apparently didn't, it's a risk. I will note that the shortlist in our doc N3 was Baker, TJ, Tani, JNV, with the first two preferred.

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

But also @Devotary of Spontaneity - It's 7AM, I have not slept since I woke up with a migraine. Which is another way of me saying—I trust you at working out scenarios probably more than I trust now!Kas, or even normal!functioning!Kas. Is there an escape hatch you're seeing that I'm not, based off where my thoughts currently are?

Just that an E!lantrian, knowing they had to submit a kill and be able to claim a scan target, could have claimed Baker took no action and hoped for the best. To everyone, had any of Tani, JNV, or TJ claimed roleless in a doc?

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Devotary of Spontaneity

[Kasimir]

16 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

TJ claimed roleless in a doc?

He implied he had a role D1, I urged him not to claim it, so he cited a line from his GM PM but omitted the role. 

TJ then claimed either D3 or N2 - I forget which, but likely D3. I do know Shadow was still alive back then, and could have seen it but uh, the size of our doc might have prevented her from finding out, I don't know.

I do think the dual clear point is moot now because of Tani Day scanning (still laugh-crying so hard, Tani you're amazing and I mean this sincerely  ...) So it boils down to whether we want dual scans at night or we just want to 4:3:2 or something.

Going to say this revelation does strengthen my V!Tani read, even if that's irrational. I don't know, that derp just... 

Edited to add: He claimed D3 that he had a role that could clear him. I pointed out there were no safe roles. He claimed later in that Day.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Kasimir

[Quivil]

8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I do think the dual clear point is moot now because of Tani Day scanning (still laugh-crying so hard, Tani you're amazing and I mean this sincerely  ...) So it boils down to whether we want dual scans at night or we just want to 4:3:2 or something.

Going to say this revelation does strengthen my V!Tani read, even if that's irrational. I don't know, that derp just... 

Life Goals: Accomplished! I got Kas to laugh, and he admitted it in-thread!

I'm glad I made you laugh instead of frustrated. : )

19 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

The vanilla cake image after self-tagging. Had Baker claimed in the doc D2 or earlier, it would be easy for E!lantrian to claim a null result. Since they apparently didn't, it's a risk. I will note that the shortlist in our doc N3 was Baker, TJ, Tani, JNV, with the first two preferred.

Oh that's what that was!

Baker never said anything in Doc until after Striker died, and before then there was only bread.

19 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Just that an E!lantrian, knowing they had to submit a kill and be able to claim a scan target, could have claimed Baker took no action and hoped for the best. To everyone, had any of Tani, JNV, or TJ claimed roleless in a doc?

I hadn't claimed until earlier toDay. I would have been hesitant to claim roleless anywhere, and probably would have claimed my actual role or implied roleless before claiming roleless.

[Mat]

1 hour ago, Tani said:

Baker's in Mat's pool. @Matrim's Dice I guess you're not Anyone. Are you Someone?

Already been kinda answered, but yeah Baker's not in my pool anymore. I am... a person, yes, who may or may not have a role  

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Mat also explicitly said due to the Fjorden results, he's not gung-ho on Baker. Assumed he was sitting on the scan results until now.

Yes, I changed my read of Baker once I caught wind of the scan results, but didn't want to out that at the beginning of the cycle, hence my lack of vote and then a Tani one.

Question- how likely do you think there to be 2 v!Elantrians? It's not outlandish for sure, but we have only seen one of every role so far, on the village side (even the elim side with the e!RBer and no v!RBer) which I get how that pattern isn't law but idk. I guess an Elantrian would be the role to vil double up on?

56 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Baker roleclaimed vanilla (i.e. regular.) Check his image out. Very clever, very delicious.

...Thanks, that went completely over my head >> I knew that meant something but I couldn't figure it out, was too fixated on the almond extract in the background xD

Moving to JNV despite it paining my soul to do so  

Edited April 12, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[Kasimir]

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Already been kinda answered, but yeah Baker's not in my pool anymore. I am... a person, yes, who may or may not have a role  

Regular is totally a role smh >>

Y'all with your fancy role plans in your docs, while Arelon has just been playing this as though it were a regular-only game (but now makes sense, since Orlok and I were both regulars so just jumped into analysis mode...)  

Also, just gonna be honest here—since a similar incident caught me out in LG7 and Evil!Maili used that to work out my role and shank me—confirm or deny as you like. But as per Devo's post earlier this game, only one known Fjorden has roleclaimed, and Devo has noted who it is. If I can see that, so can the Elims. Trying to blur the waters doesn't really work anymore.

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Question- how likely do you think there to be 2 v!Elantrians? It's not outlandish for sure, but we have only seen one of every role so far, on the village side (even the elim side with the e!RBer and no v!RBer) which I get how that pattern isn't law but idk. I guess an Elantrian would be the role to vil double up on?

Short answer: IDK. It's possible, and I don't really want to gamble on symmetry at this point, given what we know of the distro. One factor is that Elantrians only scan who a player targets, which in theory should weaken their scan a little, but we now see that's not actually what's happening. In a game with high roles, the Elantrian scan is weakened because a player targeting another player who ended up dead can still plausibly claim a role. But.

A. Look at the roles we have:

Quote

• ChayShan Practitioner: Once a Cycle, roleblock a target player. (Day or Night).
• Dahkor Monk: Once per Game, kill a target player. (Night).
• Elantrian: Once per Cycle, find out who a player targeted. (Day or Night).
• Forger: Once per Cycle, move a player's vote to another player. (Day).
• Potioneer: Once per Cycle, protect a target player from a single kill. You cannot target the same player two Cycles in a row. (Night).

Dakhor kills and Elim NKs shouldn't be distinguished, if I'm remembering Ash's Committee PM correctly, but let's reclarify this. @Ashbringer? But claiming Dakhor is already worrisome in that light. Since survivals are written up, an Elim claiming Potioneer is risky because the actual Potioneer will thunderdome you. It looks like the main options left are: <Dakhor, Elantrian, CSP.> That's not awful. But.

B. Let's look at what we know of the distro. Keep in mind that what we know is a drop, and what we do not know, an ocean. (Was wir wissen, ist ein Tropfen, was wir nicht wissen, ein Ozean.)

On 4/11/2022 at 3:18 AM, Ashbringer said:

• Thaidakar the Ghostblood - Levin Adventure - Fjordell Regular Diplomat
• @JNV - Eshena
• @Matrim's Dice - Philico
• StrikerEZ - Dior Braondo - Rose Potioneer Diplomat
• Archer - General Manager Atashbringer - Teo Regular Disruptor
• Illwei - please - Rose ChayShan Practitioner Disruptor
• @The Baker - The Baker Rose Regular
• @Sart (formerly The Sibling) - Teo Dakhor
• @Bort - Bortington the Blind
• @Tani - Mehelin - Rose Elantrian
• @Kasimir - Kesan Acheris - Arelene Regular
• Amanuensis - Jotaon Josteor - Teo Regular Diplomat
• @Devotary of Spontaneity - Dahlia
• Araris Valerian - Araolis - Rose Regular Diplomat
• Orlok Tsubodai - Locke - Arelene Regular Diplomat
• shadow1 - Arelene Regular Disruptor
• @|TJ| - Bark - Arelene Forger
• Experience - Zara - Teo Regular Diplomat

This is a not particularly a regular-heavy distro, and might shape up to be something like 60-40. Nine Regular Diplomats so far, five known roles, with our extremely anonymous Fjordell Elantrian making that six. That gives us three unknown roles left: maximally we have a 1:1 Regular : Roles ratio, and minimally 2:1. If we're in a [1:1 World], I'd expect to see more doubling up. Less if we're in a [2:1 World]. The only reason why this matters is that in the [2:1 World], you'd expect players to cotton on to the role scarcity much sooner, allowing them to realise that target scans are more likely to catch an Elim than a friendly role. But it really depends on Ash's distro modelling. I could also see him adding two target scanners in on the Village-side just in case (but typically, would expect more kills flying around in that world and we only know of one Dakhor...)

tdlr; Sorry to have wasted your time  Don't think we can tell prima facie one way or another. Roleclearing is dangerous, Beagles bite your face off, we have to rely on reads as well. Pragmatically, I'd endorse the same view I did in AG8: as long as an E!lantrian is possible (and it certainly seems plausible), we cannot roleclear, so players must stand and fall by their own actions/reads.

@Devotary of Spontaneity - Why do you take confirming TJ as a Forger to clear him? I feel like the restraint argument sounds a bit eerily like Mat's MR53 "If I'd been converted, the Elims would've won already!" argument, except that it turned out Mat hadn't realised he could just duplicate the Elim kill. Similarly, I feel like TJ's restraint D2 is a bit less positive than it sounds, due to him having been called out by Aman for lurking EoD. I do accept that his being willing to claim off the bat and not saving Archer is a good look for him though.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

4 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Why do you take confirming TJ as a Forger to clear him?

There are no role scans so there's little reason for him not to use his Forger abilities. It would have been so easy for him to try killing Thaid or I D1. D2, e!TJ doesn't need to lurk because he doesn't really care about the results other than saving Illwei, so he could just move an early vote instead. If he wanted a tie on villagers, he could have made that happen. D3 he shouldn't have trusted 3-2 would be safe for shadow.

[Quivil]

9 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

we cannot roleclear

Is this not always a thing?

Role almost never tells alignment, right?

Edited April 12, 2022 by Tani
rephrasing to be more clear about what I wanted to say

[Mat]

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Also, just gonna be honest here—since a similar incident caught me out in LG7 and Evil!Maili used that to work out my role and shank me—confirm or deny as you like. But as per Devo's post earlier this game, only one known Fjorden has roleclaimed, and Devo has noted who it is. If I can see that, so can the Elims. Trying to blur the waters doesn't really work anymore.

You said it yourself, Regular’s totally a role  

8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I feel like the restraint argument sounds a bit eerily like Mat's MR53 "If I'd been converted, the Elims would've won already!" argument, except that it turned out Mat hadn't realised he could just duplicate the Elim kill. Similarly, I feel like TJ's restraint D2 is a bit less positive than it sounds, due to him having been called out by Aman for lurking EoD. I do accept that his being willing to claim off the bat and not saving Archer is a good look for him though.

Yeah, for me it’s not just D2 but also D1 and D3. Three restraints instead of one.

That argument was totally valid smh, I bet TJ realized what his role does anyway :P.

[Kasimir]

16 minutes ago, Tani said:

Is this not always a thing?

Role is rarely the same as alignment.

Have you heard the legend of Beagle the Coinshot?

I thought not. It's not a story kel would tell you...

17 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

There are no role scans so there's little reason for him not to use his Forger abilities. It would have been so easy for him to try killing Thaid or I D1. D2, e!TJ doesn't need to lurk because he doesn't really care about the results other than saving Illwei, so he could just move an early vote instead. If he wanted a tie on villagers, he could have made that happen. D3 he shouldn't have trusted 3-2 would be safe for shadow.

I think the point is, why wouldn't he lurk? Once the rules became "ties kill", Forgers get a proportional boost in power. So there's no reason not to do it. Pulling off a triple ML would be good from an Elim perspective, and Illwei, like Archer, only became endangered late into the cycle, so he would likely not have vote manipped until needed. If he had made that tie happen, he would've been the first suspect for EoD lurking, in my view.

D3 feels a bit risky because he had claimed by that point to Orlok and myself. (Again, unclear if Shadow read it or it was buried in the extreme paragraphs of our doc.) Any suspicious vote manip on the Shadow front could have gotten him sussed, especially since Orlok was less sold on V!TJ than I was.

15 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Yeah, for me it’s not just D2 but also D1 and D3. Three restraints instead of one.

The D1 restraint argument is the most powerful for me. That and the fact that claiming reduces his options. But eh...

15 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

That argument was totally valid smh, I bet TJ realized what his role does anyway :P.

He thought Diplomat was a role smh. That Diplomats changed votes. I was like "oh God" when I found out the full story of his derp D3/N3...

Alright, maybe a few more distro thoughts:

• I don't expect there to be too many more Forgers. We should have seen sign of them by now, and moreover, I don't expect Ash and El to be as gung-ho about allowing ties to kill if there were more Forgers hiding out there.
• I don't expect a 2 V!Elantrian + 1 V!CSP world. That's way too much for the Village to have, since if the V!CSP blocks the NK, that's pretty indicative. The fact we have 1 E!CSP might be there to help deal with the V!Elantrians. Not sure.
• Ditto for Potioneer - it's nerfed, but two Potioneers can do the protection trade-off thing Araris mentioned in AG8. Potentially hampered here by coordination issues, but still. I also don't see enough kill roles (1 Dakhor doesn't count) or kill frequency to justify more than one Potioneer. If there is one [Edited to add: more], could be E!Potioneer in order to facilitate a WGG or WBG.
• No sign of further Dakhors. 

I lean stronger to the [2:1 World], making 2 V!Elantrian a bit riskier. But we probably skipped a bit ahead of time due to the tie deaths of Thaid and Striker, and I still wonder if Illwei was meant to give the Elims several more options in terms of shutting down V!Elantrians. No roleclearing seems the safest approach.

My one issue with JNV (and another factor pushing me away from Baker and Sibling tbh, beyond the existing reasons) is that I'm struggling to see how the kill choices make sense to E!JNV, or at least, who the NK choices reflect. Araris was dead N2 and by then, Illwei and Archer were dead too. Is Araris a JNV or Shadow kill? I don't know. I'm hesitant too on Orlok as I don't know if Shadow looked at the work he was doing in the Arelene doc and suggested him for the NK. But I guess JNV has played with V!Orlok in MR56 so that's not terribly impossible either.

I guess I could see some teammate leaving kill options in the doc and the survivor(s) picking from those. Or we're not looking at a newer player Elim. IDK but the Araris kill especially bugs me on a Shadow/???/??? team or a Shadow/??? team. The Orlok kill bugs me to a lesser extent, beyond the obvious, where it extremely pisses me off   

Edited April 12, 2022 by Kasimir

[JNV]

Hi last post of the cycle because Im sleeping after this for real this time no sneaking on just sleep

Im a regular if it helps Im down for the tie but its up to you guys to make it happen cause Im going to sleep plus school 

Dont really know where my vote should go at this point I think Im dead oh well I guess... Bort? everyone else in my evil list kinda got cleared just now so...

good night sleep and some RP

 

Eshena took a moment to step out of the negotiations hall and watch the ocean. It was peaceful on the beach, watching the sun brush against the waves as red streaked across the sky. It was a beautiful sunset. Possibly the last one they would ever see. They watched as the light faded, as shadows consumed what had once been dazzling, and they mourned. The sky was red, red like the blood of fallen friends, red like the blood of Teod. Five representatives of a shining empire, and now there was just them. Alone.

"The sun never sets," an old friend had told them once. But here was the sun, setting. It was the last one they would ever see. 

[Kasimir]

Are we still down for 4:3:2 or not?

My pool keeps shifting. I've taken one scan through their posts and am struggling to feel okay with JNV, Tani just feels Village to my gut, and I'm not sure I'm capable of thinking straight about Bort anymore. Doesn't help I'm still relying on reports of doc Fjordell stuff.

From what I can see:

Quote

JNV (2): Kas, Mat
Bort (3): JNV, Baker, Tani
Baker (1): Bort
TJ (1): Sart

Wait. Fjordell people. Why is Bort voting Baker if Baker has been scanned by someone in Fjorden as not having put in an action last night?

[Bort]

7 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Wait. Fjordell people. Why is Bort voting Baker if Baker has been scanned by someone in Fjorden as not having put in an action last night?

Because I've only checked the thread on my phone since then and formatting stuff is a pain on here. I'll edit my new vote in here from my laptop shortly.

Edit: JNV

Partially for self preservation reasons, but also because they are near the top of a lot of people's suspicions lists.

Ok, so Kas replied. Going to check that out and maybe post after that. I am about to head out though, so may not have time until I get home.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Bort
At a PC

[Kasimir]

20 minutes ago, Bort said:

Because I've only checked the thread on my phone since then and formatting stuff is a pain on here. I'll edit my new vote in here from my laptop shortly.

But you are in Fjordell. There are no private ways to communicate in this game. How is it that you know Baker was cleared from having put in a kill last night but also end up voting for him? You shouldn't be needing to find this out from the thread. 

[Bort]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

But you are in Fjordell. There are no private ways to communicate in this game. How is it that you know Baker was cleared from having put in a kill last night but also end up voting for him? You shouldn't be needing to find this out from the thread. 

I didn't find out from the thread, but I still think there is something dodgy about Baker. That's why I put my vote on him in the first place.

Hasn't Devo already told you that I've brought up the possibility of a 5 elim team, now twice in our doc?

[Kasimir]

10 minutes ago, Bort said:

I didn't find out from the thread, but I still think there is something dodgy about Baker. That's why I put my vote on him in the first place.

Hasn't Devo already told you that I've brought up the possibility of a 5 elim team, now twice in our doc?

Interested in why or how you feel so confident in a five Elim team you choose to vote in the pool of players who, if your scan is correct, categorically cannot have put in the NK. 

The five Elim team is entailed by catching the fourth and discovering that there is another. Immediately assuming there is a fifth to lynch Baker doesn't seem right to me since that seems almost too eager to ignore the scan as evidence. 

If you think it's a five Elim world, who is Baker teamed with? 

... And here I am defending the guy who wanted me to die D3, joy to the world, welcome to SE... 

[Mat]

I think we should do 4:3:2, and I think I might prefer the 4 to be Bort. His Baker vote never made sense to me. Idk, it’s tied, maybe that’s fine :P. TJ can manip the 1-1 side trains we have? Or are those gone? They could be remade, probably 

[Quivil]

whats 4:3:2? Is it about votes?

[Mat]

Just now, Tani said:

whats 4:3:2? Is it about votes?

Yeah, 4 votes on someone, 3 votes on someone, 2 votes on someone. From what I understand it’s so TJ can prove his role without messing up the chosen exe.

[|TJ|]

16 hours ago, Kasimir said:

My concern with TJ is that Aman was watching N2 [Edited to add: D2 sorry] like a hawk IIRC and called TJ out for lurking EoD. It's not clear to me if that prevented TJ from vote manip, since that would absolutely get him called out the next day when there's extra deaths from Forgery.

Kas, I'mma need you to stop looking at my actions as 'could be possibly evil' and start taking actions and then reading alignment off them. Less "hey he could have done this if he was evil too" and more "okay he has done this, now what does it say about his alignment". 

I was lurking at the end of D1 too, because again, I wanted to look till the last minute to decide if I should vote-shift or not. You'll recall that I asked you and shadow to stop talking in the doc immediately after the cycle was over because you guys were talking into the rollover. 

Another thing is there were like 8-9 players viewing the thread during EoD2 (didn't observe keenly on who among them were still playing) but still a large enough pool for e!me to take a bet on killing multiple player once and/or saving Illwei. There's no way elim!me not protect Illwei after not protecting Archer in the previous cycle. And not protect shadow on top of that. That's just purely self-destructive elim-play. 

If I understand correctly Tani target-scanned Baker last cycle and came up with nothing. And one Fjordell scanner scanned another Fjordell player and came up empty? 

My PoE right now is <Bort, JNV> , <Baker, Sibling>, <Tani, Devotary>, <Mat, Kas>

Let me know about my Forging. Currently leaning towards shifting a side-train vote onto JNV to make it 4-4.

Edit: 

8 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Yeah, 4 votes on someone, 3 votes on someone, 2 votes on someone. From what I understand it’s so TJ can prove his role without messing up the chosen exe.

Wait, what? xD I thought it was so I could shift votes from the 4 to the 2 to make it 3-3-3 to clear players xDD

Edited April 12, 2022 by |TJ|