Long Game 84: A Sel United

[Kasimir]

Ni su'cuyi, gar kyr'adyc, ni partayli, gar darasuum, Orlok.

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Edit: Cmon guys the thread shouldn’t be dead right now we have to finish the game 

C'mon bro be the change you want to see, why are you not offering analysis?

My very crude current sets:

Non-starters: <Mat, Devo, TJ>
Starters: <Bort, Baker, JNV, Tani>

Note that when I say this is crude, it's really just "fairly confident Village read" versus "everyone else" so it needs more work.

I also need to sift the starter set more. Still fairly comfortable with my TJ read; while I could be mistaken, that's a future problem. Shadow pushed hard against the idea there was one Elim in each Empire, so I'm wondering if this is a good time to start looking at Fjorden again. 

As the only player left in Fjorden I'm not sure about: Bort.

When I have more time/bandwidth, closer vote analysis to see if I can get more coherent views on Baker, JNV, and Tani out.

I'm deliberately ruling out Stick/Sibling as I understand there's a game issue involving her and Stick may need to be modkilled, so we will likely get the flip anyway.

[Mat]

8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

C'mon bro be the change you want to see, why are you not offering analysis?

Because until now, I was mobile-only

Ok, first replying to JNV from last turn:

Quote

um quick question wyh trust Brot for their Illwei vote and not Baker for their Illwei vote I agree Bakers been kinda hm this whole time definitely one of my first choices for vote tomorrow but could you elaborate please thanks 

The difference for me was in the timing. Baker voted Illwei before Illwei was an exe candidate and vanished from the cycle, while Bort voted Illwei when it was Devo:4 and Illwei:2, effectively putting Illwei back into contention. It's not a clear, but it's something.

Quote

See this makes mek inda hm at Tani cause they said Baker used the wrong color but how does Baker wrong color when they just use bread and the issue is no one else is alive in Rose so we cant even really ask for clarification on that without possible misleading cause how can Baker refute when bread is bread

Well, it wasn't Baker, it was Illwei who apparently used the wrong color, and I don't really fault Tani for making that mistake because I trust it was a mistake, not a deliberate lie. A deliberate lie would be weird in that scenario because there'd be 2-4 others who could point it out.

Quote

So the sus basis is oh Bort didnt know terms and now they suddenly know this thing from a year ago

I ah

Realize I was part of the group suspecting Bort for this but I also just realized that it's completely backwards :P. In the MR, Orlok suspected (bussed) Bort, and one of the main points against Bort there was that he was faking not knowing the terms. I'm not certain if he was faking the terms, but if so, that would mean that he feasibly could remember something from before and this wouldn't be suspicious.

Quote

Ok so the thing is Matrims post only mentioned Amanuensis as an exampe of someone else who thinks village Striker not as a 'oh this person is village' sorta thing 

We talked it over in the doc, that's what Bort is referring to here.

18 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Shadow pushed hard against the idea there was one Elim in each Empire, so I'm wondering if this is a good time to start looking at Fjorden again. 

As the only player left in Fjorden I'm not sure about: Bort.

In addition to the thread stuff that's sort of there (but really can be interpreted either way) there's also some doc things that are pushing my read a lot more into village territory- I likely won't vote Bort but go ahead. I'm not sure if that has to imply there's an elim in each Empire, since the team seemed to be fond of subverting expectations (See: Illwei pushing for the ArcherBus theory, the ArcherBus theory being accurate to begin with).

Mostly I just really want my Empire to be pure  

23 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I'm deliberately ruling out Stick/Sibling as I understand there's a game issue involving her and Stick may need to be modkilled, so we will likely get the flip anyway.

I mean, there's some wiggle room. Technically Sibling could have submitted the kill while absent from the thread and technically there could be two elims left, I don't think either of those things are likely but they are possible and I feel like if the slot needed to be modkilled they would have just done that instead of replacing Sibling.

I feel like Baker is a good exe but... not a good misexe, if that makes sense? I want to keep my options open anyway, and my PoE is now one which isn't a good thing at (theoretically) 8-1 :P. So I'm expanding to [Baker, Tani, JNV] with Bort hovering around it. @The Baker, @Tani, thoughts?

[Kasimir]

12 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I mean, there's some wiggle room. Technically Sibling could have submitted the kill while absent from the thread and technically there could be two elims left, I don't think either of those things are likely but they are possible and I feel like if the slot needed to be modkilled they would have just done that instead of replacing Sibling.

I didn't want to say this, but to be blatant: Stick and I were in contact before the game. She knows my alignment. This means that as long as Sibling is replaced by Stick, and this is allowed to stand, this will tell me something about Sibling's alignment. This is why we are currently waiting and expecting a modkill. This was a mistake and a miscommunication on both our ends.

Edited to add: To be honest, this likely means I might need to be modkilled as well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited to add 2:

11 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Realize I was part of the group suspecting Bort for this but I also just realized that it's completely backwards :P. In the MR, Orlok suspected (bussed) Bort, and one of the main points against Bort there was that he was faking not knowing the terms. I'm not certain if he was faking the terms, but if so, that would mean that he feasibly could remember something from before and this wouldn't be suspicious.

If you read the MR57 Elim doc, I had to explain 'thunderdome', 'PoE', and a few other terms to Bort. It's not something he'd have needed to fake in an Elim doc. Given the preponderance of 'thunderdome' in LG75, it's curious to me that he'd have backread and caught that game of all games. His early opening game pattern of behaviour also looks to me like in his previous E games. 

I need to commit to relook, but think Bort is a good starting point. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Kasimir

[Mat]

Ok yeah there’s no wiggle room there lol

Tbh I think if Stick is replaced again (or killed) then you’re fine, the switch was made before this came to GM attention so this doesn’t reveal anything. (?)

[Kasimir]

29 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Tbh I think if Stick is replaced again (or killed) then you’re fine, the switch was made before this came to GM attention so this doesn’t reveal anything. (?)

I think there's an argument to be made for why I need to be modkilled as well, but if it hasn't occurred to anyone, I'm tempted not to keep digging as this might just cause Ash or El more headaches... >>

46 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Mostly I just really want my Empire to be pure  

I know the feeling. A lot of my Orlok and TJ reads came from personal meta knowledge, and my ability to read them as my bros and it felt rude to exclude Shadow as my weakest read on the basis...she wasn't my bro >> (I mean honestly we say player meta but it boils down to: they're my bros, I know them, they can't hide that from me. Maybe TJ can but due to more in-doc happenings and last Day's events, am somewhat more confident in V!TJ now.)

I'm not dead sold on Bort, I just want to open with Bort. But is there a way you can talk about some of the in doc interactions that give you a better read on Bort? @Devotary of Spontaneity Interested if you can chime in here.

49 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I'm not sure if that has to imply there's an elim in each Empire, since the team seemed to be fond of subverting expectations (See: Illwei pushing for the ArcherBus theory, the ArcherBus theory being accurate to begin with).

I'm not sure either, but I'm very tempted to just LAFO if I am not sold on Tani or JNV, and you and Devo are not in my PoE. I would I suppose be down for policy-lynching Baker, if only because I don't want us to worry about reading Baker at lylo, but again, that's just PoE issues, and I don't know we should be worrying too powerfully about lylo now with one to two Elims left. I suppose my current intuition would be within <Baker, Bort> but this is before I commit to re-reading or analysing because I was supposed to have a quiet, chill, game with my bros...

But then they killed Orlok.

So yeah, lesgo.

[Ashbringer]

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I think there's an argument to be made for why I need to be modkilled as well, but if it hasn't occurred to anyone, I'm tempted not to keep digging as this might just cause Ash or El more headaches... >>

I...

... >>

(Yes, I've been aware of this, but I also need El's help on this)

[The Baker]

Spoiler

Bort

[Kasimir]

@Tani - I'm curious about one thing. Can you look in your Empire doc around C2, and tell me how exactly Illwei came to Baker's attention via his vote? Was she behaving suspicious in the doc? Because as far as I know, TJ in our doc expressed mild suspicion of Illwei but it was based off her meta. Aman, too, appeared to have meta-based suspicion of Illwei. Am curious where Baker's suspicions come from; need to recheck what Bort said.

@The Baker If you're somehow able to communicate this info via bread pictures, would appreciate that too.

[JNV]

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Well, it wasn't Baker, it was Illwei who apparently used the wrong color, and I don't really fault Tani for making that mistake because I trust it was a mistake, not a deliberate lie. A deliberate lie would be weird in that scenario because there'd be 2-4 others who could point it out.

From tani about the baker vote

Quote

Ok. Araris. Sri.

People in the Rose Empire: Striker, Araris, Baker, Illwei, me. Striker and Araris gave vocal support Baker said lots of bread. Illwei hasn't said anything about it yet. Baker has previously used the wrong color and was corrected. I think it was probably Baker who misused Araris's color. @The Baker ?

So before this color thing Tani says Baker was using actual words that require color instead of bread pictures but heres the thing Striker nad Baker both said Baker hasnt been using words one sec let me find the posts

So Bakers denial is here

and ack I cant find Strikers but I remember them saying it could be misremembering maybe but the baker denial should be enugh probably

so basically tani says baker has been using things in the doc that require color usage which could only really be actualy words Baker says they have not been using words in the doc thats a contradiction right there which is hmmm at best plus honestly if its not a one all world Id expect the extra to be in rose cause larger empire plus I trust sibling oh right its tomorrow time to spill beans sibling claimed the one shot kill role the... monk? I think thats the name and if they were being honest I dont think thats the sorta role an elim would have so... also would an elim claim that role its kinda hard to avoid proving if they get on the doc at all plus with the whole messy thing going on with that slot probably not evil besides if they are actually evil right now and submitted the kill but didnt post then either they get mod removed or we know theyre evil so...

@The Baker @Tani has Baker ever used words that are not pictures of bread in your doc and I dont mean like what they usually do I mean ever at all in the entire doc

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

We talked it over in the doc, that's what Bort is referring to here.

oh ok thanks that actually makes me feel a tiny tiny bit better about bort 

Theres 9 people left probably 1 evil so 8 1 three misvotes to death match actually if stick gets removed 7 1 2 misvotes to death match three misvotes to death then with all the basically confirmed people we can just sorta pick off all the suspicious people and then we win 

Just to keep options open and to hopeflly get more response to morep ressure and cause Borts like my second or third option Baker hi id appreciate it if you could possibly confirm / deny the bit about words again and also if possible address Tanis apparent mistake about what youve been upto int hte doc?

edit oh by the way I cant be on for the rest of today life stuff ya know so Ill see you tomorrow night ish

Edited April 11, 2022 by JNV

[Kasimir]

Striker on Baker:

Quote

Baker also hasn’t said anything besides bread pictures in our doc, at least since I last checked.

But this was on N1, p4, where the situation could have changed by the time the Rose Empire began voting on each other D2. Not sure. 

40 minutes ago, JNV said:

and ack I cant find Strikers but I remember them saying it could be misremembering maybe but the baker denial should be enugh probably

JNV, when did Sibling claim Monk, exactly? Feels a bit odd for an Elim team to leave a V!Dakhor alive, especially since no one would be left to contradict JNV. But then, I could always see Orlok as a priority target because he's a kayana bro, so there's that.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Kasimir

[Elbereth]

Stick has been re-replaced with @Sart. If you’re pinchhitting, please make sure that the players whose alignment you know are in fact dead.  

This is your friendly IM, checking in to remind you that I’m here for comments, questions, and concerns! 

[Kasimir]

4 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

please make sure that the players whose alignment you know are in fact dead.  

I mean, according to JNV, Sibling's a Dakhor.

Isn't requesting that Stick shoot me first before subbing in just a bit cold-blooded and non-impartial here?  

[Mat]

7 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

@_Stick_ welcome to the towncore 

Typo smh

Clearly meant to welcome @Sart to the towncore, these S names are confusing

[JNV]

Hi sneaking online at night 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

JNV, when did Sibling claim Monk, exactly? Feels a bit odd for an Elim team to leave a V!Dakhor alive, especially since no one would be left to contradict JNV. But then, I could always see Orlok as a priority target because he's a kayana bro, so there's that.

n1 I think a little after when they said hi in thread but cant really tell no doc stamps you know but after they siad hi experience was doing a thing where they checked who was looking at the thread in the last hour of the cycle so no later than one hour left n1 no earlier than threadish life this is after Archer died so maybe elim team just didnt know about them?

Hi sart welcome to Teod great to see you I get a friendo yay

Ok now good night actually no more posts until tomorrow night sleep time

[Sart]

Yo. Time for my traditional Pinch-Hitting vote analysis.

Day 1:

• Archer (4): Kasimir, Amanuensis, shadow1, Devotary of Spontaneity
• Thaidakar the Ghostblood (4): Matrim's Dice, Archer, The Baker, |TJ|
• Devotary of Spontaneity (2): StrikerEZ, Araris Valerian
• Experience (1): Thaidakar the Ghostblood
• Amanuensis (1): Archer How is Archer's Vote in two separate places?
• Tani (1): Experience

Well, normally I would lean elim on the people who voted on Thaidakar, but this Day had elements of a bus. I'll have to read through this to get better reads.

Day 2:

• Illwei (4): Matrim's Dice, The Baker, Bort, Amanuensis
• Devotary of Spontaneity (3): JNV, The Sibling/Sart, Araris Valerian
• Matrim's Dice (3): Illwei, Kasimir, |TJ|
• StrikerEZ (2): StrikerEZ, shadow1

Okay, two days in a row with an elim voted out. Nice! Assuming this isn't a bus, Matrim, Baker, and Bort all look pretty good here, while Kasimir and TJ look a bit sus.

Day 3:

• StrikerEZ (3): Bort, Tani, shadow1
• shadow1 (3): Matrim's Dice, StrikerEZ, Devotary of Spontaneity
• Amanuensis (2): Amanuensis, Orlok Tsubodai
• Kasimir (1): The Baker
• Bort (1): |TJ|

And we killed a third one in a row. With this number of players, it's doubtful that this was a bus. In that case. Matrim and Devo look pretty much cleared.

Okay, based purely on vote counts, I'm going to put a vote on TJ. They voted on a villager Day 1. They voted on my strongest read for a villager Day 2. Day 3, they were the only vote on Bort. I'm skeptical that two elims would double up on the StrikerEZ train. I suspect they would want to start another train. Between The Baker and TJ, The Baker actually voted on Illwei, so I'm more inclined to trust them. I noticed Kas has TJ on his no vote list, but I'm curious as to why. What's given you such a good read of them?

[Kasimir]

28 minutes ago, Sart said:

I noticed Kas has TJ on his no vote list, but I'm curious as to why. What's given you such a good read of them?

I've said this in thread several times, but in short, TJ made a pair of very natural slips in our doc. One involving confusion about what the Elims even were (see: Disruptor), and the other concerning his GM PM where he mistook 'Diplomat' as a role rather than a faction. He did involve some GM PM wording, which I'm ignoring, because that takes us into bad territory. I've paraphrased and transcribed the conversation here. TJ also roleclaimed within our doc and I am sufficiently satisified that his claim implies he is most likely Village; I am leaving it to him whether he wishes this disclosed to the thread or not.

First, I think that the slip was too natural, and there was little reason for Evil!TJ to just say that while performing his reads, off-the-cuff. Second, I would expect Elims to pretend to be confused or just display a non-reaction to Exp's D1 RP claim to be Evil. Archer should have forewarned them in their doc. We see this from Illwei insisting that it should be ignored, and Shadow querying Exp about what's going on with it. TJ just being confused and completely missing that Exp had claimed Evil and asking me where that had happened is distinct enough from their responses that I credit less weight to it being a deliberate response.

Finally, I'm moderately familiar with his player meta and have worked closely enough with him. I do have some lingering concerns given LG83 and how disengaged he's been from analysis (which I see more on E!TJ than V!TJ), so he's a Light Village read for me, but at this point, he's still not in my immediate PoE.

He also pushed back against the Aman case Orlok and I were pushing, while Shadow's in-doc position was carefully muted and eager/obliging. I think that's enough of a contrast for me to feel good about him as well.

28 minutes ago, Sart said:

Well, normally I would lean elim on the people who voted on Thaidakar, but this Day had elements of a bus. I'll have to read through this to get better reads.

If Devo is Village on your read, which I would agree with, Shadow and me both voting Archer would entail a bus that never needed to happen, because Archer could easily have been saved if it wasn't for the two of us voting on him. One of us bussing him still works; two of us is fairly kayana given how close the votes were and the fact we'd know Archer intended to self-pres. I should also note Orlok and I had very strong Village reads on each other, which TJ can confirm, and if TJ says otherwise, I'm happy to take the exe to prove my honesty, after which you can Dakhor shoot TJ because he has no incentive other than alignment to lie about it. (Anyway he's Light Village for me.)

To be clear, Orlok expressed in our doc that he was more willing to believe he had misread his GM PM than that I was Evil. Given how closely we've worked over this year, I think it's reasonable to believe we'd both be able to read each other over around 147 pages of conversation, discussion, argument, and live communication in our extremely hyperactive Empire doc.

28 minutes ago, Sart said:

Okay, two days in a row with an elim voted out. Nice! Assuming this isn't a bus, Matrim, Baker, and Bort all look pretty good here, while Kasimir and TJ look a bit sus.

Bro. Do you even pay attention to the vote timings? Mat was the decisive vote - Baker dropped the first vote and left. It's unclear where the suspicion on Illwei materialised from: Aman cited Illwei's player meta, and TJ leaned Elim on Illwei based on her meta as well in our doc. So...where is Baker's suspicion of Illwei arising from? It's why I want sight into that damned Empire doc already because we can't exclude a distancing vote that didn't get removed, i.e. TMI.

@|TJ| - Question though; you leaned more E on Illwei, so why stick with Mat?

28 minutes ago, Sart said:

I'm skeptical that two elims would double up on the StrikerEZ train. I suspect they would want to start another train

Again, I know you're pinch-hitting but context matters. At the point Shadow voted, there were just three viable trains:

Quote

Kas (2): Baker, Kas
Striker (2): Bort, Tani
Shadow (2): Mat, Striker
Aman (2): Aman, Orlok 

And we were under ten minutes to the end of the cycle. There is no more train creation given TJ was not in the Empire doc, and in the Empire doc, I specifically said I was protest voting myself at how the Turn had been handled, and/or would simply further decline to engage in the cycle, also in protest at how the Turn had been handled as I strongly disagreed with the events that had taken place.

The Aman train was out of contention because Aman was set to be modkilled anyway. Shadow had mentioned repeatedly in thread and in the doc she Village read me and would likely have been taken to task by Orlok or TJ (on the assumption V!TJ) if she'd voted me out of the blue. If she wanted to self-pres and survive, it doesn't matter what alignment Bort and Tani are, she has to vote Striker.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Kasimir

[Mat]

45 minutes ago, JNV said:

n1 I think a little after when they said hi in thread but cant really tell no doc stamps you know but after they siad hi experience was doing a thing where they checked who was looking at the thread in the last hour of the cycle so no later than one hour left n1 no earlier than threadish life this is after Archer died so maybe elim team just didnt know about them?

I’m sorry did you say no doc stamps-

Yeah, with Archer dead D1 it would make sense for the elims to just not have known, I mean unless you’re elim they didn’t :P. I think with the lack of kill + this claim (which I don’t think is ever made by e!Sibling) that Sibling slot it village.

This could make me feel better about you but it also doesn’t because suddenly killing the new player is weird and if they flip Monk then the rest of us would easily be able to theorize that there’s another Disrupter in the Teod doc. And sometimes the elims want to leave the vig alive since that’s a way to potentially get an extra villager death. So basically no change to my read of you which was already village so idk why I even wrote this paragraph

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

4 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I'm not dead sold on Bort, I just want to open with Bort. But is there a way you can talk about some of the in doc interactions that give you a better read on Bort? [Devotary] Interested if you can chime in here.

Quote

Bort isn't up for the exe, but since Matrim and I might both die today and leave him as the only member of our doc, I will note his interactions as: Didn't initially realize the doc could not be trusted, specifically for roleclaiming purposes; was fine with claiming as he thought it unlikely there were two elim-free docs and brought up the possibility of five elims, was fine with Mat being the emissary, set up a table for everyone's empire affiliations. D2 he said he didn't have much time for this game, reaffirmed being unconcerned with everyone knowing his empire, told Mat he had a village feel for me.

From my D2 post. Since then, suggests that his Illwei vote D2 was to give Mat and I a chance of survival. N2 was suspicious of Striker for making a :00 vote for a second time on the village counterwagon and argued with Mat about it, confirmed vig=kill role, listed top three suspicions as Striker, Tani, Aman, clarifying he saw Aman's posts as reminiscent of the MR.  D3 continued his suspicions of Striker after TJ pointed out incorrect wording. N3 he roleclaimed, was suspicious of TJ and Baker. Again questioned the assumption of four elims.

[Kasimir]

1 minute ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

From my D2 post. Since then, suggests that his Illwei vote D2 was to give Mat and I a chance of survival. N2 was suspicious of Striker for making a :00 vote for a second time on the village counterwagon and argued with Mat about it, confirmed vig=kill role, listed top three suspicions as Striker, Tani, Aman, clarifying he saw Aman's posts as reminiscent of the MR.  D3 continued his suspicions of Striker after TJ pointed out incorrect wording. N3 he roleclaimed, was suspicious of TJ and Baker. Again questioned the assumption of four elims.

Good enough for me for here and now. Bort, Baker. Still want to know where that Illwei sus emerged from, and the timing of the D1 Thaid vote is a bit disconcerting for me.

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

This could make me feel better about you but it also doesn’t because suddenly killing the new player is weird and if they flip Monk then the rest of us would easily be able to theorize that there’s another Disrupter in the Teod doc. And sometimes the elims want to leave the vig alive since that’s a way to potentially get an extra villager death. So basically no change to my read of you which was already village so idk why I even wrote this paragraph

Apparently, to convince me that technically whether there is a leak in Teo or not, Sibling's death would have been sus. So I can't strengthen my read of JNV on this basis, good to know.

25 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

And we were under ten minutes to the end of the cycle. There is no more train creation given TJ was not in the Empire doc, and in the Empire doc, I specifically said I was protest voting myself at how the Turn had been handled, and/or would simply further decline to engage in the cycle, also in protest at how the Turn had been handled as I strongly disagreed with the events that had taken place.

Okay, no, wait a second I just realised. I cannot for the life of me confirm/remember if I saw TJ in the doc near EoC as he wasn't being communicative, and doesn't always show up as a differently-coloured icon. This is on me, but it was one hell of a EoD, I was trying to make a snap decision about whether or not to withdraw my protest vote, and I was extremely worried for the welfare of another player in this game, so in short, I don't know if I can trust my memory of whether TJ was there. But it was just Shadow and I talking about the existing trains, so if he was in the doc, and V!TJ, Shadow would not have had a way of soliciting another train from him.

Given:

This does sound like a weak contradiction. But that being said, I should also point out that the Arelene doc was probably just a bit less than 147 pages long at that time. Even with my having formatted the doc extensively for easy searching, I don't believe TJ could reasonably have come to a decision and finished reading everything/ignored the large chunks from me and Orlok and himself to find Shadow's interjections under that kind of time pressure. It was always going to be a losing battle.

[|TJ|]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

TJ also roleclaimed within our doc and I am sufficiently satisified that his claim implies he is most likely Village; I am leaving it to him whether he wishes this disclosed to the thread or not.

I'm a village Forger, showing restraint not to use my action to go against consensus because I wasn't confident enough in my votes. If I was an elim Forger I could have saved 3 elims in each of the 3 cycles. In addition to that, I could have killed 3 more players in D2 with a single vote-shift (which is the reason I was observing EoD stuff carefully, so that if I do send in an order to shift votes and there are some last minute vote changes in thread, it could have lead to multiple players dying). There's no proof that I am a Forger, but I can easily prove that in this cycle. 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

I should also note Orlok and I had very strong Village reads on each other, which TJ can confirm

I think I've already mentioned this xD but yes Kas' strong village read on Orlok is what added probably 20% of the 80% I mentioned I was sure that Orlok is village. 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

@|TJ| - Question though; you leaned more E on Illwei, so why stick with Mat?

(Except for D1 vote) I work with content bro. I discern guilt from volume of content, and Illwei basically had barebones of content compared to Mat. 

50 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

This does sound like a weak contradiction. But that being said, I should also point out that the Arelene doc was probably just a bit less than 147 pages long at that time. Even with my having formatted the doc extensively for easy searching, I don't believe TJ could reasonably have come to a decision and finished reading everything/ignored the large chunks from me and Orlok and himself to find Shadow's interjections under that kind of time pressure. It was always going to be a losing battle.

I wasn't clear given the time constraints but I was looking for her reasons to vote on Archer and her opinion on Illwei specifically, so I was confined to a D1 and D2 content search. She stated in the thread (and in the doc) that she had flagged certain stuff from Archer which she found suspicious, so I was search for these things she had flagged but I couldn't find it anywhere. And yes I was in the doc at near-EoD, but I was on the Docs app on the phone, so I donno if it makes a difference in terms of visibility. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by |TJ|

[Bort]

5 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

suggests that his Illwei vote D2 was to give Mat and I a chance of survival

Imagine my dismay when I wake up the next morning, go into the doc, only to find Devo and Mat have been discussing killing me

Baker

[Kasimir]

Kesan Acheris sat on the sand, and watched the waves roll in. Surf soaked the rolled-up cuffs of his trousers, and receded.

The small island in the archipelago taken by the delegation from the Arelene Empire seemed only bleaker, now that two were gone from among them. (There were always losses in the night, a price to be paid for light.) He hadn't really known the one who called herself Shadow, and could only speculate at how she'd attached herself to their delegation. Bribes, no doubt, or favours exchanged. There were always those in Arelon who wanted to see the negotiations fail. 

And then there was Locke.

Kesan liked Locke. They'd worked together sporadically on negotiations over the years; a low-stakes negotiation in Elantris, back when Locke was new to the diplomatic service, and Kesan was that low-ranking administrator from a far-flung province. Locke had moved on; Wuhern never had. But now Wuhern wasn't here, and Locke was, and they'd put their heads together trying to work out where those trying to disrupt the negotiations were coming from.

"I'm a diplomat," Kesan said, exasperated. "Not law enforcement."

"We do what it takes to secure the negotiations," Locke said, dispassionately. "If these agents are trying to disrupt the negotiations, then is is crucial that we neutralise them."

Locke, dead now.

It was just him and Bark left, and Kesan felt, all of a sudden, so very alone and inadequate.

You were never ready, he thought. Even when you thought you were. And Kesan Acheris had not been ready for a very long time. There was that complicated portfolio during a posting in the Arelene embassy in the Imperial Seat—late nights working with Wuhern and Locke in the Frozen Moon teahouse, heads bent over the lists of concessions and demands that the Rose Empire's delegation had presented to them—but he'd never liked having to spearhead a delegation. There were reasons for it.

And everyone looked at you when it soured, when it went to hell, as it inevitably did, and shook their heads, because of course a backwater boy from one of the furthest provinces in the Arelene Empire couldn't be expected to get it right.

He kept his head down, stayed far away from the light, and worked hard. And kept working at the tasks they gave him. And for all of that, it'd brought him here, to what must've been the highest-stakes negotiations in his entire life, and now Locke was dead, and so was Jotaon Josteor, and all Kesan could feel was the sheer weight that had fallen on his narrow, inadequate shoulders.

His mother had come from the Rose Empire, from Ukurgi, and as he watched the waves sweep in, traceries of foam glinting across the sand in the last light of the sun, he thought of the tales she'd told him. Proverbs, sometimes, the kernel of wisdom at the centre of a story. Later, he'd taken to reading Rose Empire classics, perhaps out of a sense of exile and loss. A sense that there was something missing, something from half his blood, something he yearned to connect with.

There was a tale in the Rose Empire, about a wave. He watched the next wave sweep in, felt the water tug gently at his ankles, before receding yet again. It reaches the shore, and then it disappears; and then there is only water. But the water is still there; the wave has disappeared, because it was only ever water, only ever temporary, only ever transient. The wave returns to the ocean, where it came from, and where it is supposed to be.

We, thought Kesan, with the hollowness of loss, are only waves. Only ever waves.

He picked himself up, and brushed sand off his knees.

The loss did not change. Neither did the sense of inadequacy.

But it did not matter. He was alive, and Locke was dead, and watching the waves in the last light of the sun, feeling the cool breeze against his skin, Kesan Acheris vowed to continue Locke's negotiations.

Jotaon Josteor had been their suspect. He had turned out to be working for the good of the Teo Empire, for the shared good of the negotiations.

He imagined Wuhern standing there, on the shoreline, his back to Kesan.

"As long as we are alive," Wuhern said, quietly, "As long as we cannot die, we must assume responsibility."

Kesan took a long, deep breath. He exhaled, listening, still, to the waves.

It was time to get back to work.

[Ookla of Colors]

Bort for now.

 

Ed1t: Now that I've caught up...

11 hours ago, JNV said:

so basically tani says baker has been using things in the doc that require color usage which could only really be actualy words Baker says they have not been using words in the doc thats a contradiction right there which is hmmm at best plus honestly if its not a one all world Id expect the extra to be in rose cause larger empire plus I trust sibling oh right its tomorrow time to spill beans sibling claimed the one shot kill role the... monk? I think thats the name and if they were being honest I dont think thats the sorta role an elim would have so... also would an elim claim that role its kinda hard to avoid proving if they get on the doc at all plus with the whole messy thing going on with that slot probably not evil besides if they are actually evil right now and submitted the kill but didnt post then either they get mod removed or we know theyre evil so...

11 hours ago, JNV said:

@The Baker @Tani has Baker ever used words that are not pictures of bread in your doc and I dont mean like what they usually do I mean ever at all in the entire doc

I apologize for the inconvenience, this was all a misunderstanding.

Araris told Baker something about picking color, and I assumed Baker had talked.

I'm sorry, this was all a misread on my part, and you should listen to Baker.

11 hours ago, Kasimir said:

@Tani - I'm curious about one thing. Can you look in your Empire doc around C2, and tell me how exactly Illwei came to Baker's attention via his vote? Was she behaving suspicious in the doc? Because as far as I know, TJ in our doc expressed mild suspicion of Illwei but it was based off her meta. Aman, too, appeared to have meta-based suspicion of Illwei. Am curious where Baker's suspicions come from; need to recheck what Bort said.

@The Baker If you're somehow able to communicate this info via bread pictures, would appreciate that too.

The only things that happened C2 in the doc were the thing with Illwei about telling who was in the Rose Empire, Striker getting a bit sussed and saying he kept forgetting TJ was in the game, and Illwei dying.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Tani

[Mat]

Tani

So I can be different

I don’t think I need TJ to prove his role tbh, but there’s nothing wrong with him doing so. Just reinforces my village read of him, and makes it stronger.

[|TJ|]

Okay my re-read has been a mess, it's all over the place but I'll just tag stuff whenever I need to comment on them and not make a huge multi-quote mess, so first - 

This does not look e/e with Illwei, imo. (+ I want to say that the stuff about Tani hunting for the player typing stuff in wrong color and voting on them feels village)