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8 hours ago, |TJ| said:

And I came here to vote on Mat, but then see he's defending me in last page smh >> I do think Mat's been suspicious because I've not seen him defending players like this before, and there seems to be no one he solidly suspects. Usually he'd be a bit more firm about his suspicions by now, but he does seem self-aware that he's been defending more than accusing. More self-awareness is a possible elim alignment indicative, I think. Mainly though, this is what triggered me in the first place - 

This re-affirmation looks very bad to me, like he was caught making a suspicious statement and when Devotary asked him in a way that it showed how ridiculous the statement was, he knew backing down would make it even more suspicious and he doubled down on it. Matrim's Dice

Everyone has games like this- games where suspicions don't fall together. I've almost committed to solving this game through village reads, but I am going to go back through D1 after I finish this post. I am usually more firm about my suspicions by now, but I don't think that's elim indicative, that's just disengaged indicative :P. And I will try to fix that, if you'd let me.

And like Aman said, I was right xD I doubled down on it with a single word because I was on mobile with limited time, but also I didn't feel like explaining it to Devo again when I'd already done so in our Empire doc :P.

7 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

I basically find it ironic that Mat was cautioning against us revealing doc mates to see if any elims would slip only to immediately figure out what me/Exp were up to. I almost think Archer reported it to the Disruptors immediately so Mat knew ahead of time (or at least that Archer told the Disruptors who was in his doc, and Mat quickly put 2 and 2 together); though if true, I'm extremely surprised he would let that info slip so easily?

It almost reminds me of like... how I instantly knew Meerkat was a Tineye after the fake Meerkat claim thing in AN8? Really suspicious information turnaround?

So... Matrim. I guess past me did tell present me to vote here today :P

Why is ironic = elim in this situation? Why does perceptive = elim in this situation? Can anyone consider that maybe when Exp said 

Quote

Our Emissary of the Teod Empire has already stepped forward and introduced himself, and I would like to thank him for his words.

In his post I easily determined that he was in the same Empire as Aman, and since claiming elim seriously isn't something that happens normally, I made the not-very-difficult leap of logic that this was a ploy of some kind. It's well known that this is the kind of thing Exp and you like to do, and you're in the same doc. Essentially, the coincidence-I-think-NOT meme, but like cmon it wasn't even something I had to think hard about and I don't see why being right about this means I'm elim >>

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Mat:

  1. More disengaged from the game than I've seen him - not interested in making pushes, only in defending players (-)
  2. Sudden late Thaid switch (-)
  3. Specificity of bait response - claiming that it was developed in the Teo doc. (-)
  4. Feels like he's trying to set me up for a ML if V!Devo dies if V!Devo (?!)
  1. See response to TJ. I'd like some grace for this :P. My IRL time for SE is about the same as normal now, but it wasn't on D1 and I lost a lot of the groundwork I normally make there.
  2. I thought Thaid was more suspicious than Archer in the limited reading time I had, what can I say? :P 
  3. Again I already kinda responded to this, but look, Aman and Exp both claim Teo and then Exp claims elim in what is an obvious ploy, what was I supposed to think.
  4. When have I ever done this xD You are a village read for that Archer vote basically every time
2 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Devotary

Might as well see if anyone has a preference

Hello I have a preference

Looks the VC is shaken up though and I still want to reread D1 before voting

Edited by Matrim's Dice
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1 minute ago, StrikerEZ said:

Matrim's Dice (4): Kasimir, Illwei, |TJ|, StrikerEZ,
Devotary of Spontaneity (4): JNV, Amanuensis, Araris Valerian, The Sibling
Illwei (2): The Baker, Bort

Here's the VC

Uhhhh, perhaps you meant to vote for Matrim? xDD

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You guys can expect my D1 post in about 3 hours- I'm busy for about the next two. I started the reread but I want to post it all together, figured I should warn y'all beforehand so you're not expecting it soon...

Hmm. That's about when rollover is, isn't it >> Would be great if I posted it at rollover only to be killed :P (No it wouldn't.)
I'll put a purely self preservation on Devo for now but I would love to not have to leave that there since I still think Devo's self pres onto Archer instead of Thaid was village.

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9 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Hm, I have my own reasons to suspect Mat, but that very specifically is... not really a point against him?

Like, Mat was 100% right. That's more or less exactly how it went down. Experience said he wanted to April Fool's Day claim elim as a joke, I encouraged him to do it but don't reveal it was a joke until there's some time for me to see how people react, and no one else said "lol that's dumb" so Experience went through with it.

That's what he originally said, and I don't think it's as bad as TJ is painting it to be rn.

BUT

There was this exchange that happened yesterday:

Devo: 

Mat:

Me:

I basically find it ironic that Mat was cautioning against us revealing doc mates to see if any elims would slip only to immediately figure out what me/Exp were up to. I almost think Archer reported it to the Disruptors immediately so Mat knew ahead of time (or at least that Archer told the Disruptors who was in his doc, and Mat quickly put 2 and 2 together); though if true, I'm extremely surprised he would let that info slip so easily?

It almost reminds me of like... how I instantly knew Meerkat was a Tineye after the fake Meerkat claim thing in AN8? Really suspicious information turnaround?

So... Matrim. I guess past me did tell present me to vote here today :P

 

The problem with this case, Aman, is why is this not just one narrative of the events that could be true but also could be false? Maybe he just did expect that from you. While they may be true I find it hard to weight things like this.

Also, with your sus on illwei: I don't really agree. I was being very genuine last game where I said I really just didn't understand her playstyle or posts. I don't think I can use a meta read of 'looking odd' to read illwei, because I never understand what she is getting at in the first place.

I'm not that fond of any of the current wagons. I doubt voting here will lead to an elimination but Tani or Striker is most likely evil imo.

The Sibling's play is also somewhat problematic but I'm only just noticing this.

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I haven't been able to think about this game for a few days but I should be able to do so now.

12 hours ago, JNV said:

Devotary ok so the Devotary case is founded on that Experience vote while saying its hard to believe an elim would do this like I said earlier its not a case of 'this is bad villae play so its evil' its a case of 'this is bad play so its not really indicative of anything'
 

I still think Kas and I had the same initial reaction to Experience claiming elim, that maybe it's nothing but it's also possible that e!Exp genuinely didn't realize it wasn't a faction game and empire affiliation has nothing to do with alignment. Voting on Exp helps find out which, and bringing up past examples of villagers claiming elim makes it too easy for e!Exp who did make a mistake to just say it was one of those. This is the last I'll talk about this since Experience is confirmed village, except clearly there was a lot of lead time for Archer to tell the Disruptors if claiming elim was supposed to be an April Fool's but then he didn't actually do so until the 2nd.

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

And like Aman said, I was right xD I doubled down on it with a single word because I was on mobile with limited time, but also I didn't feel like explaining it to Devo again when I'd already done so in our Empire doc :P.

Matrim did say in the empire doc that he thought it was less an organized vote than an idea Aman or Exp coming up with an idea and everybody else going along with it.

Bort isn't up for the exe, but since Matrim and I might both die today and leave him as the only member of our doc, I will note his interactions as: Didn't initially realize the doc could not be trusted, specifically for roleclaiming purposes; was fine with claiming as he thought it unlikely there were two elim-free docs and brought up the possibility of five elims, was fine with Mat being the emissary, set up a table for everyone's empire affiliations. D2 he said he didn't have much time for this game, reaffirmed being unconcerned with everyone knowing his empire, told Mat he had a village feel for me.

Meanwhile Mat's D2 talk in the doc is making me lean more village on him as not someone who's receiving information from other docs, which is unfortunate given the votes. Technically he could be faking thinking Malkier was as real empire(despite being named after a WoT character), claiming not to know whether Tani and Araris were in Kas's doc, and writing Arelon as Arelene(who are the people, not the country according to Ash)  because Kas did, but I don't think he'd be willing to go to those lengths. I can't read much into Illwei's posts, though I do see that he would have voted to save Archer as an elim and she had a similar view as Mat re: empire claiming but is now voting for Mat while sort of defending him.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Bort isn't up for the exe, but since Matrim and I might both die today and leave him as the only member of our doc, I will note his interactions as: Didn't initially realize the doc could not be trusted, specifically for roleclaiming purposes; was fine with claiming as he thought it unlikely there were two elim-free docs and brought up the possibility of five elims, was fine with Mat being the emissary, set up a table for everyone's empire affiliations. D2 he said he didn't have much time for this game, reaffirmed being unconcerned with everyone knowing his empire, told Mat he had a village feel for me.

Are you proposing a swing to Bort?

Edited to add:

25 minutes ago, shadow1 said:

I'm not that fond of any of the current wagons. I doubt voting here will lead to an elimination but Tani or Striker is most likely evil imo.

For Striker, would that be his vote, or his current play?

More bearish on Tani at the moment as this is consistent with her playstyle - but I accept I could be overly-blinded by that knowledge.

Edited by Kasimir
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...........Someone just @ me if you badly need me to move my vote and have good reason to do it. I have three write-ups owed and a rollover to manage and I just don't have the bandwidth to look at this EoC until done >>

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5 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I just want to vote Striker :P. Can that train miraculously appear?

If we can engineer a three way tie between you, me, and Devo, I wouldn’t even be opposed. I feel like that would take out at least one elim. :P

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14 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Are you proposing a swing to Bort?

Edited to add:

For Striker, would that be his vote, or his current play?

More bearish on Tani at the moment as this is consistent with her playstyle - but I accept I could be overly-blinded by that knowledge.

Striker is based on his vote at eod yesterday and his vote on araris today - the notion that he was trying to act suspicious so then he could omgus vote whoever went after him. That isn't a thing.

@Matrim's Dice Sure, I don't think I'm getting anywhere with the Tani vote today so I'll gladly do StrikerEZ if that is more viable

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25 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Are you proposing a swing to Bort?

I don't know. I think there's a good chance at least one of Mat, Bort, and Striker are evil. I'd be okay with a tie though I'd prefer not to die. No Forgers showed up to save Archer D1 which is a good sign for there not being any on the elim team.

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Updated Vote Count:

  • Devotary of Spontaneity (5): JNV, Matrim's Dice, The Sibling, Amanuensis, Araris Valerian
  • Matrim's Dice (4): StrikerEZ, Illwei, Kasimir, |TJ|
  • Illwei (2): The Baker, Bort
  • StrikerEZ (1): shadow1

 

A little over an hour left in cycle. Again, @ me if the vote count looks wrong.

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Something something Mat isn't paranoid enough of me for me to believe he is Village something something

Idk too lazy and half-asleep to do any cases but there's multiple things surrounding Mat that I don't feel line up in a he's-Village kind of way =/ Like I *want* to believe in him and give a pass but

Like I think the main thing is... I've done nothing (besides wall-vote Archer) to indicate I'm Villlage really? Yet on D1 Mat didn't suspect I was trying to get him ML'd or anything? He just kinda rolled with the punches in a way that's like "Well of course v!Aman suspects me D1, I'm E!" and I feel Archer specifically harped on my D1 thought experiment thing for Mat ("setting up Mat to fail" - which I hard disagree with btw) as a way to discredit me and sorta defend his ally?

Like the question I guess is the same question with Devo. Was Archer consciously framing a suspected Villager by defending him? Or was Archer (sub)consciously defending a partner to not lose him D1?

If Archer framed Devo/Mat, I absolutely believe he was bussed / or distanced by Shadow/Kas.

Like if Striker flips town like I feel he will, E!Shadow equity shoots up imo, no matter how big a fan I am of Shadow :P

But I also have zero reason to defend Striker other than TWTBW so like... meh

KILL THEM ALL I SAY. RENOUNCE INDECISION AND MURDER SPREE INSTEAD

It's a sad day when the player I trust the most of not betraying me is the bread guy

ED1T:

Illwei @Ashbringer idk Illwei's heart doesn't feel in the game either and I kinda think this wagon is pure

Edited by Amanuensis
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4 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

But I also have zero reason to defend Striker other than TWTBW so like... meh

You see this is a fundamental difference in what we're choosing to find important. I'm quite frankly just voting the most obviously scummy people and I'm not overthinking it or trying to create complicated narratives. It's served me well in terms of accuracy.

That said, I recognize that a lot of people are making meta related cases that my eyes sort of glaze over, so I understand why I might have different reads than others.

Definitely not against tying the vote, we get more town controlled kills that way.

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13 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Like I think the main thing is... I've done nothing (besides wall-vote Archer) to indicate I'm Villlage really? Yet on D1 Mat didn't suspect I was trying to get him ML'd or anything? He just kinda rolled with the punches in a way that's like "Well of course v!Aman suspects me D1, I'm E!" and I feel Archer specifically harped on my D1 thought experiment thing for Mat ("setting up Mat to fail" - which I hard disagree with btw) as a way to discredit me and sorta defend his ally?

I think you’re overassuming how much time I had for deep alignment thinking on D1 :P. I can gut read you pretty good, I went with that. It was proven right, imo, by your Archer vote. But I don’t see how me village reading you is a reason to elim read me lol

Striker

Home now so my D1 post is coming

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10 minutes ago, shadow1 said:

You see this is a fundamental difference in what we're choosing to find important. I'm quite frankly just voting the most obviously scummy people and I'm not overthinking it or trying to create complicated narratives. It's served me well in terms of accuracy.

That said, I recognize that a lot of people are making meta related cases that my eyes sort of glaze over, so I understand why I might have different reads than others.

Definitely not against tying the vote, we get more town controlled kills that way.

Yeah I'm kinda stuck cause like

If Striker E, he is absolutely playing in the exact way to pocket v!Me. So like, I really appreciate your no meta fresh perspective! I can definitely see you being right! But I just don't feel it's right in my gut, even while having no good reason to defend him?

Idk I'm playing this game super surface level / emotion based tbh, also not trying to overthink too much.

But gut was right on Archer even when my brain was like "meh" so like...

Idk. I'm still kinda hung up on the fact I'm alive too. Most likely because doctor dodge yet still torn, and whoever decided to kill Experience... I will have choice words for you in the dead doc because I was really enjoying his effort and I'd have rather saw him work more for at least one more cycle before he got ruthlessly murdered :(

Existence is pain for a meseeks

ED1T:

Can't edit in Mat quote cause mobile but @Matrim's Dice basically I have a really bad habit of townreading players that sus me and wolfreading players that trust me too early. I usually feel like elims should know better to get on my bad side (*cough Archer cough*) because I will not hesitate to outcase them if I'm being pushed in a way I vehemently disagree with

Idk yeah tbf maybe you just gut knew I was Town but I have no clue why and that concerns me

I could be MR56 tunneling you rn but I'm more interested in collapsing multiple elim realities rn than I am in hard pushing you

Devo self pressing two cycles in a row with minimal solving doesn't give me a lot of confidence in v!her or e!you tho

Edited by Amanuensis
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Ngl Striker being very blatantly suicide happy with the ties is a point in his favor too :P

Don't love the Striker push since it very likely is motivated to save a wolf but eh

WHY OVERTHINK THINGS WHEN WE CAN JUST KILL EVERYBODY

ED1T:

If it wasn't clear I'm half asleep and apparently that also translates to murder happy

Edited by Amanuensis
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9 minutes ago, shadow1 said:

Definitely not against tying the vote, we get more town controlled kills that way.

I would say that the GM meta around here tends to support giving elims vote manip roles, so I'm a lot more hesitant to support a tie. However, if we do pull a tie, I'd say that a village Forger should use their role so that the elims don't potentially get to choose who dies.

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3 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

StrikerEZ

It should now be a four way tie between me, Mat, Devo, and Illwei. I’m fine with this :D

This makes me think you're just trying to take down a lot of villagers with you :P

But I'm actually not against this. Especially Illwei I don't really know how I'm going to read so I feel she's gonna have to be eliminated eventually, Devo is meh to me and Mat is sliiiightly town but more just from me agreeing with them on some things which is a poor reason for a read. So not against this spread actually :D and it does effectively resolve paranoia issues lol

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4 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I would say that the GM meta around here tends to support giving elims vote manip roles, so I'm a lot more hesitant to support a tie. However, if we do pull a tie, I'd say that a village Forger should use their role so that the elims don't potentially get to choose who dies.

Oh true I completely forgot about the manip roles :/

Do GMs not randomize setups here?!

EDIT: Whoops sorry for the double post, I thought someone had posted in between!

Edited by shadow1
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