Some needs to have a talk with Brandon about the meaning of "spoiler"

[Necessary Eagle]

Dear Branderson,

Knowing that Sigzil- Sig!- turns into this grim and gritty beat-down wreck of a man, haunted by broken oaths and hunted by worldhoppers, angry and bitter and calloused? Yeah, that's going to affect their my ability to enjoy the character going forward. It's like seeing Happy Kaladin in a flashback and knowing he's going to be a Sad Boi- but at least we see him in a better place by the end of the same book, and his arc is presumably going to be resolved within SA. The Sunlit Man isn't going to be out until the end of next year, and it's not part of the main series.

In short, I think the way this was handled was a miscalculation.

[Nirrov]

Disagree. If anything this will make reading about sigzil in SA5 far more interesting. 

[Karger]

Sigzil isn't like this.  He is just having a really bad day.  Being exiled and on the run for your life will do that to a man.  I don't think he is a different person.  He just cannot be himself in this situation.

[Frustration]

To me Sigzil was kind of just there you know? I'm actually going to start paying attention to him now. So I think overall this has been a net positive for Sigzil.

[cometaryorbit]

20 minutes ago, Frustration said:

To me Sigzil was kind of just there you know? I'm actually going to start paying attention to him now. So I think overall this has been a net positive for Sigzil.

Same here, I think.

All it really gives away for Stormlgiht 5 is that Sigzil doesn't die in it. This seems to be set far enough in the future that the implied events in his past (some kind of maybe partial oath breaking, holding a Dawnshard, saving Hoid/Wit from something) could be post Stormlight 10.

[AerionBFII]

Hard disagree, I think it’s down to personal preference but it’s made me ravenous  for more 

[StormingTexan]

35 minutes ago, Frustration said:

To me Sigzil was kind of just there you know? I'm actually going to start paying attention to him now. So I think overall this has been a net positive for Sigzil.

Exactly how I feel. Of the Bridge 4 crew he was probably the one I was least interested in. Plus I think this will end up adding to the hype for SA5 knowing that we will find out how he got to the state in that book but getting to read more about it in Sunlit Man before SA5. It is kinda a teaser and hype builder along with what looks like a pretty awesome story in itself. 

[RedBlue]

I’ve actually been lowkey interested in finding out what Sigzil’s deal is since tWoK. There’s a lot about him that seems like it should be a big deal, and it’s never been properly addressed in Stormlight. Loads of unanswered questions.

Firstly: he’s Wit’s apprentice. Why would Wit take an apprentice? What is he teaching Sigzil, and for what purpose?

Secondly: Sigzil almost died, and probably would have if Kaladin hadn’t shown up. What happened between Sigzil and Wit? How did Sigzil end up on the bridge crews? Why didn’t Wit intervene? Did Wit expect Sigzil to die?

Thirdly: Sigzil was non-Alethi before it was cool. Does it bother him to be away from his homeland? Why did he leave? Why did he stick around, in a culture that didn’t fit him well, after he was free to go? Why did Sigzil choose to be a soldier, when his skills would benefit a more administrative role?

He’s a minor enough character that the questions he raises don’t feel like loose threads exactly. But the more I think about it, the more hyped I am for a book that expands on his character. And adding more depth can only make Stormlight 5 better, in my opinion. 

[Necessary Eagle]

It's possible that I shouldn't be posting emotional OPs while sick. My head still isn't quite clear.

That being said, I really did get the impression from the reading that Nomad's issues were long term. All that stuff about broken oaths and "he'd done things that he once would have died rather than do" and stuff, just really gave me the impression that the boy's been down in the crem for a long time.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

7 hours ago, Procrastination Shard said:

On the timeline front I didn't really get the vibe of a big time skip, and to be honest I think a large one wouldn't make a lot of sense from what we've seen. It seems more likely that this is in the span of a year or three later from SA 5, not hundreds or decades

Hoverbikes, contact with multiple offworlders, the word spaceship appearing in the text

 

Oh and Brandon saying that the book happens far in the cosmere's future. Definitely centuries

Sigzil can have loved ones after a long time, see hoid and Jasnah

Edited March 25, 2022 by KaladinWorldsinger

[A25O]

9 hours ago, Procrastination Shard said:

I somewhat agree, while cool the book is essentially a massive spoiler for details about SA 5 and gives very large hints as to what goes down during it. It seems somewhat a miscalculation to release it before SA 5 since already I feel like a lot can be guessed about what happens during it. Unlike other audiences as well we already know a great deal about these references, while a new reader could walk in blind and not make the connections while reading SA Brandon instead stressed the connection while presenting it to an audience that already knows a lot about it.

 

You say that but what exactly is spoiled by this? You can definitely make alot of assumptions, but definitely nothing  concrete. And considering that brandon wrote this to be read before SA5. I wouldn't be surprised if what we learn here is just a misdirection to put us on the wrong track.

 

9 hours ago, Procrastination Shard said:

On the timeline front I didn't really get the vibe of a big time skip, and to be honest I think a large one wouldn't make a lot of sense from what we've seen. It seems more likely that this is in the span of a year or three later from SA 5, not hundreds or decades. It wouldn't really make sense with the character arc if that was the case and other details don't really gel with what we see, Wit is still Wit and in his uniform, no one is in the space age, no planet at all seems to have progressed further than when we've last seen them judging from Sigzil's mention of them, his loved ones are still alive and his general attitude does not seem to suggest any long period of time in this new lifestyle.

It read as a decently long time skip to me, not quite space age l, but somewhere around era 3 of mistborn. Or atleast during SA part 2. As for the fact that tech hasn't progressed very far, this isn't Scadrial or Roshar, this is a backwater planet in the middle of no where. For Scadrial to have a presence here implies that there has been quite a bit of expansion since last we saw.

Edited March 25, 2022 by A25O

[StormingTexan]

3 hours ago, A25O said:

You say that but what exactly is spoiled by this? You can definitely make alot of assumptions, but definitely nothing  concrete. And considering that brandon wrote this to be read before SA5. I wouldn't be surprised if what we learn here is just a misdirection to put us on the wrong track.

Yeah I agree with this. The only thing (at least so far) that has been "spoiled" is we now know Sigzil gets involved with a  Dawnshard and we should find out how he got to his current state in SA5. Like I doubt anyone was seriously worried about what happens to Sigzil in SA5 before this. I think most people assumed Dawnshards would come in to play soon after Dawnshard (the book). To me this all just builds hype and gets me interested in a character I did not really care about. Plus I agree Brandon is doing on purpose and he has a way of surprising us even with hours upon hours of speculation here and other places. I mean how many people guessed correctly that Sigzil would be the protagonist of this book? 

[StormingTexan]

15 minutes ago, Procrastination Shard said:

Well I feel we can say a lot with confidence now. Namely;

* The cast of Stormlight Archive is still alive.  All we know is Sigzil and people who care for him are alive. That is pretty broad I'd say, We do not even know if the people who care for him are people we already know. He could have started a family or something down the road.

* Roshar still exists and people still live their in abundance. To me this is not earth shattering news we also know that Rosharans make it to the space era. 

* Despite this something bad happened. I think we all assume something bad will happen. We still have 6 more books to go. 

* Wit still works as Wit. Indeed! But I think he is just calling him by that name. 

* They fix the BAM situation is resolved and Deadeyes are fixed. This is speculation (although I think good speculation) but it has been foreshadowed pretty heavily already so again to me not earth shattering news. We still need to learn the circumstances around it. 

 

I respectfully counter some of these points.

Edited March 25, 2022 by StormingTexan

[Nathrangking]

1 minute ago, Procrastination Shard said:

Well I feel we can say a lot with confidence now. Namely;

* The cast of Stormlight Archive is still alive.

* Roshar still exists and people still live their in abundance.

* Despite this something bad happened.

* Wit still works as Wit.

* They fix the BAM situation is resolved and Deadeyes are fixed.

* The connections that Ishar creates are not permanent.

On most of these points I don't think that we can say much of anything. Point 1) * The cast of Stormlight Archive is still alive.- Maybe though doubtful. We know that there are people that Sig cares about, but honestly that could be anybody not necessarily our cast of characters. Point 2) * Roshar still exists and people still live their in abundance.- Likely as well, but honestly the excerpts that we have don't tell us much about this. Point 3) * Despite this something bad happened.- The most likely of these though that's not a real revelation. Point 4) * Wit still works as Wit.- We have literally no evidence one way or the other all that we know is that Sig calls Hoid Wit which says nothing about hisn current status. Point 5) * They fix the BAM situation is resolved and Deadeyes are fixed.- We have no basis to say this Auxiliary is such a mystery there is not much to be derived from it.

Point 6) * The connections that Ishar creates are not permanent.- I'm not even sure what you mean.

[HSuperLee]

11 minutes ago, Procrastination Shard said:

Well I feel we can say a lot with confidence now. Namely;

* The cast of Stormlight Archive is still alive.

* Roshar still exists and people still live their in abundance.

* Despite this something bad happened.

* Wit still works as Wit.

* They fix the BAM situation is resolved and Deadeyes are fixed.

* The connections that Ishar creates are not permanent.

I'm not certain we can say these things with confidence.

• That is a big assumption to be extrapolating from the fact he still has some loved ones alive. Besides, did you ever realistically expect that every single member of the main cast would die?
• Okay, so one theory among many, that being the destruction of Roshar at the end of SA5 is crushed. Is that really a spoiler, per say? If it is, then is the famous WoB about Venli being dead and not reincarnated into Timbre a spoiler since it crushed Jebus's theory?
• Again, are you implying that wasn't already a reasonable conclusion and that you someone consider the alternative to be a realistic expectation?
• Not necessarily. When Nomad met him he went by Wit, so the name might be persisting even when the position is not.
• You are making a huge leap towards one theory that has not come anywhere close to being confirmed and assumed it is fact.
• What? Where are you even getting this from? And why did you think they were?

 

Edit: For the sake of those looking back on this thread in the future, I would like it to be known that the previous three responses were all posted within a minute of each other, meaning none of us saw the messages the others were making until we posted out own. Take that as you will, future reader.

Edited March 25, 2022 by HSuperLee

[StormingTexan]

7 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Point 6) * The connections that Ishar creates are not permanent.- I'm not even sure what you mean.

I didn't add this one because I did not understand it. @Procrastination Shard can you please elaborate on this one? 

[StormingTexan]

9 minutes ago, Procrastination Shard said:

Okay so no clue why you all just suddenly just started spamming me with the same near identical comments in the span of a minute nor why you seem so personally offended at someone feeling spoiled by this novel.

Apologies and this was not intentional. I think we were all writing comments at the same time. 

* I think it is pretty reasonable to presume some people would die and in fact I did expect pretty bad things to happen to most of the cast. This clearly confirms though no such thing happens. Also we know that Sigzil dips early into the novel so I think it's doubtful that he suddenly makes new close connections in the span of like two days.

Sorry I cannot see the confirmation here. Even if the connections are ones we know this could be just a couple of members from Bride Four for all we know. There is still a huge cast of characters that may or may not have made it. 

* Rosharans existing does not mean Roshar still exists. Like Roshar could be destroyed but Rosharans still exist. Much in the same way Alethkar is gone yet the Alethi are still around.

Fair enough. I guess for me at least I never thought Roshar wouldn't survive however we do not know what the future Roshar will look like just that it is there. I can see how this could be spoilery though. 

* Wit literally is in uniform, hence why Sigzil thinks it's Kal and not another random person. It's clear he is still in his role as Wit.

Agreed this is odd. It could be him just presenting himself in a familiar form though since it is a "vision" and he was not physically there. Wit does wear many hats. 

* Literally all evidence points to BAM being released. It matches up with everything we know on how spren bonds used to work and matched. There really isn't any mystery here I think.

Again I feel like the releasing of BAM has been pretty heavily foreshadowed so I assumed this as a foregone conclusion the when, where and how is what we do not know. 

* One of the ending things they finish on in RoW is whether Ishars bonds are permanent as Sigzil is given a bond. We see here that no such bond exists anymore, making it fairly clear that Ishars bonds aren't actually permanent at all.

I need to think about this one more. 

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

I honestly loved it. 

this just means that we now have several known characters who are going to be major characters in the cosmere. Sig, Hoid, Kelsier, Saze (+ a few more I forgot to mention).

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, Procrastination Shard said:

* I think it is pretty reasonable to presume some people would die and in fact I did expect pretty bad things to happen to most of the cast. This clearly confirms though no such thing happens. Also we know that Sigzil dips early into the novel so I think it's doubtful that he suddenly makes new close connections in the span of like two days.

Some people maybe but the main cast have tons of plot armor, and we have five more books.

6 hours ago, Procrastination Shard said:

* Rosharans existing does not mean Roshar still exists. Like Roshar could be destroyed but Rosharans still exist. Much in the same way Alethkar is gone yet the Alethi are still around.

Odium doesn't want to destroy Roshar so I'm not sure how that is a reasonable excpectation, esspecially with five more books.

6 hours ago, Procrastination Shard said:

* Wit literally is in uniform, hence why Sigzil thinks it's Kal and not another random person. It's clear he is still in his role as Wit.

He is known as Wit in SA and as this book is stormlight adjecent it would be weird for Brandon to change his name.

6 hours ago, Procrastination Shard said:

* Literally all evidence points to BAM being released. It matches up with everything we know on how spren bonds used to work and matched. There really isn't any mystery here I think.

Not neccesarily, I've been wondering for a while if Aux's condition is what happens when a Dawnshard Radiant breaks their oaths

6 hours ago, Procrastination Shard said:

* One of the ending things they finish on in RoW is whether Ishars bonds are permanent as Sigzil is given a bond. We see here that no such bond exists anymore, making it fairly clear that Ishars bonds aren't actually permanent at all.

Even in RoW we see that Ishar's bonds aren't permenant, he made a Connection between the Windrunners and stone that wore off over time.

And even before then our first intorduction to Connection was in BoM where we saw that it wore off. No If Ishar made a Bond with himself he could probably make that permenant.

[HippoPhileus]

The biggest thing for me was this passage:

Quote

“I don’t have time for you, Wit,” Nomad said.  “The Night Brigade is out there.  Hunting me.  Because of what you did to me.”

“You may have saved the cosmere.”

“I absolutely did not save the cosmere,” Nomad snapped, finding a pebble in his pocket—mud washed away—he threw it through Wit’s head.  The illusion rippled then restored.  “I might have saved you though.”

“Same difference.”

“It’s not,” Nomad said.  “It’s really not.”  He stepped closer to Wit’s projection.  “If they catch me, they’ll be able to connect the Dawnshard to you.  And then, they’ll be on your tail.”

The biggest things I want to know are:

1. What Sigzil did that Wit claims "may have saved the cosmere."
2. Whether this is the same Dawnshard Rysn receives in Dawnshard, whether Sig has it, and, if so, how he got it.

Edited March 25, 2022 by HippoPhileus

[RedBlue]

Honestly, I don’t think we can infer anything about the Mishram/deadeye situation except that it has changed since the end of ROW. 

Clearly, Aux doesn’t behave like a ROW-era deadeye (eg Maya). But he doesn’t behave like like a pre-Recreance deadeye either, because those didn’t exist. When Oaths got broken, the spren used to be able to sleep it off. Aux seems to be in this ‘dead’ state permanently.

So, I have no idea what’s going to happen with BAM now, except that it will be uncharted territory. 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:31 PM, Procrastination Shard said:

I also don't recall anything about Jasnah being able to live centuries and Hoid is not someone I think is counted as a loved one by Sigzil.

Why is everyone assuming that the people sigzil loves are people we know at all? Hoid still falls in love after so long, we really can't use that as evidence that bridge four members are still alive. It could be skar and drehy's adopted great-great granddaughter sigzil could be talking about for all we know.

Edit: sorry I don't remember who was the gay couple. Shite

Edited March 26, 2022 by KaladinWorldsinger

[HOIDS BROTHER'S FATHER]

I tend to agree. Not much spoiled at all. You can only derive spoilers from making assumptions which I'm not willing to make.  Very interested though.  I love theorizing 

[lacrossedeamon]

Brandon has now said Sunlit Man takes place around SotD, putting it a couple centuries after SA.