Getting some bad vibes

[Elsecaller_17.5]

This little bit does not bode well for SA5. We might be looking at some really nasty stuff for our friends.

[Gilphon]

On the contrary, this tells us that Roshar is still there and there are still people who care about Sigzil living there. That's more assurance than we used to have that things will turned out alright. 

Even Sigzil's disbelief at seeing Kaladin reads more like the impossibility of Kaladin just randomly showing up on an alien world than implying something bad's happened to him. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Gilphon

[RedBlue]

Yeah, I don’t think we can read too much about the fate of Roshar or the other Stormlight characters from this. Brandon wouldn’t put SA5 spoilers in a mostly-standalone book like this. 

The most I think we can tell is that Sigzil ends up offworld, some weird things happen to his spren, he holds a Dawnshard temporarily, and he’s had a very difficult time of it. 

[Hoids4thApprentice]

The long terms Cosmere implications of these 10 Chapters and Branden's references to Hoids 3 apprentices at the end totally blew my mind.

Branden seems to suggest that we will know how and why Sigzil leaves Roshar and goes on the run from the night brigade in Book 5. The way I am interpreted this on first listen is that Sigzil is carrying a Dawnshard and the act of picking it up killed his spren but allowed Sigzil to take the spren's investiture off world. It suggests to me we are going to get more Dawnshard stuff in Book 5, something I thought we would not see again untill the back half after reading Dawnshard. I have no idea how book 5 is going to turn out for our main charachters after this, but I can't wait to read it!

[AerionBFII]

2 hours ago, Gilphon said:

Even Sigzil's disbelief at seeing Kaladin reads more like the impossibility of Kaladin just randomly showing up on an alien world than implying something bad's happened to him. 

May have just been the inflection in Brandon’s voice   but the ‘Kal’ seemed so forlorn makes me think he’s gone. The guys an actor. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by AerionBFII

[Elsecaller_17.5]

20 hours ago, AerionBFII said:

May have just been the inflection in Brandon’s voice   but the ‘Kal’ seemed so forlorn makes me think he’s gone. The guys an actor. 

That's interesting, I read it, I didn't listen.

[drunkenbotanist]

This could also be decades and decades after storm light. Kal could be dead from old age easily

How else could Sigzil now have seen more of the cosmere than Hoid?

 

 

[DiePie]

1 hour ago, drunkenbotanist said:

How else could Sigzil now have seen more of the cosmere than Hoid?

if he were to say, jump to a planet every 2 (earth) weeks, he could cover 27 worlds in a year. Hoid seems to be spending a lot more time on major shard worlds than Sigzil is, interfering with events etc. We don't really have a good read on how Hoid spends his time, but it's probably safe to say that he has been on less than 200 planets. Using those numbers Sig would have "seen" as much of the Cosmere as Hoid has in under a decade.

[teknopathetic]

On 3/24/2022 at 2:31 PM, AerionBFII said:

May have just been the inflection in Brandon’s voice   but the ‘Kal’ seemed so forlorn makes me think he’s gone. The guys an actor. 

Well if Sigzil is time jumping, then 99.99% of the Stormlight cast should be gone. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by teknopathetic

[RedBlue]

I found it very difficult to pin down where this book might be in the timeline. There seem to be things pointing both ways. 

On the ‘near future’ hand: Sigzil apparently left people who love him back on Roshar, and they are still alive. There’s a general lack of advanced technology in the setting (relative to what they have in Stormlight). There aren’t any references to space age stuff (that I could tell).

On the ‘far future’ hand: Sigzil has been very busy. He’s gone through a lot. He’s been many places. That takes time. Wit also seems to have had some character growth since Stormlight, which seems a bit future-y to me. 

I hope someone will ask Brandon about the timeline during the spoiler stream. He could RAFO it, but he’s answered timeline questions in the past, and I would like to know how this all fits together. 

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, DiePie said:

if he were to say, jump to a planet every 2 (earth) weeks, he could cover 27 worlds in a year. Hoid seems to be spending a lot more time on major shard worlds than Sigzil is, interfering with events etc. We don't really have a good read on how Hoid spends his time, but it's probably safe to say that he has been on less than 200 planets. Using those numbers Sig would have "seen" as much of the Cosmere as Hoid has in under a decade.

Even if Hoid only visited one world every twenty years he would have been to at least 500.

And Hoid will occasionally leave a planet after just a few minutes so he's probably got at least a thousand.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

Even if Hoid only visited one world every twenty years he would have been to at least 500.

And Hoid will occasionally leave a planet after just a few minutes so he's probably got at least a thousand.

That's ignoring the time dilation. He isn't active constantly.

[Frustration]

Just now, Nameless said:

That's ignoring the time dilation. He isn't active constantly.

Even so one world every ten years is almost feels like an underestimate.

[+Oltux72]

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

Even if Hoid only visited one world every twenty years he would have been to at least 500.

And Hoid will occasionally leave a planet after just a few minutes so he's probably got at least a thousand.

If he keeps going to new planets. And that may be rare. For all we know, most of the Cosmere may just not matter to him.

[Elegy]

I think the discussion about how many planets they could have visited misses the point. One could have visited just as many planets and not have seen as much of them as the other. Sigzil might have just seen more on the planets he's been to. I don't think it's solely about how many worlds he's seen.

I'm also fairly certain that both have visited almost all worlds in the cosmere that can be visited. After all, Khriss talks about "dozens" of planets. Hoid could live another ten thousand years and never have visited a thousand planets, since the cosmere just isn't that big. He has had enough time to visit just about every one of those dozens of planets. He just might not have seen as much of the planets he's been on.

Regarding that, I think it's also important to consider that Hoid's Fortune leads him to places where important things are (potentially) going to take place, but he might not see much more of these worlds. We have mostly met him at important cultural places like Hallandren or Luthadel. Sigzil, however, is not guided by Fortune, he seems to be on the run and out to hide - which is a far better reason to find places in the cosmere that others haven't seen because they didn't have a reason to, like Hoid.

[Proletariat]

11 hours ago, drunkenbotanist said:

This could also be decades and decades after storm light. Kal could be dead from old age easily

How else could Sigzil now have seen more of the cosmere than Hoid?

 

 

Since Sigzil is basically immortal now who knows how long this has been, but I reckon the ability to Skip might at least make him more capable of travelling than Hoid who seems dependent on going through shardpools and who seems to have an ailment where he gets completely frozen for periods of time. He's also a fugitive on the run while Hoid isn't. He has a reason to keep moving and never lay down any roots.

[Frustration]

Additionally Sigzil could care about some spren or Aiamians who do live forever.

[+Oltux72]

On 24.3.2022 at 7:47 PM, Gilphon said:

On the contrary, this tells us that Roshar is still there and there are still people who care about Sigzil living there. That's more assurance than we used to have that things will turned out alright.

Witness statements are problematic. I am afraid we cannot draw that conclusion, as we do not know the state of affairs when Sigzil left Roshar. Roshar may just have exploded after he was already gone. Even Hoid is likely Invested enoug to become a Cognitive Shadow, if he so chose. In theory. What do we know:

• Sigzil is alive
• He interacted with a Dawnshard
• He is no longer a Windrunner

Anyting else is basically conjecture.

1 hour ago, Elegy said:

Regarding that, I think it's also important to consider that Hoid's Fortune leads him to places where important things are (potentially) going to take place, but he might not see much more of these worlds. We have mostly met him at important cultural places like Hallandren or Luthadel. Sigzil, however, is not guided by Fortune, he seems to be on the run and out to hide - which is a far better reason to find places in the cosmere that others haven't seen because they didn't have a reason to, like Hoid.

Sigzil is most likely guided by Fortune. The likelihood of appearing at an execution site in use right as the sun is about to rise by chance is essentially zero.

[Elegy]

23 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Sigzil is most likely guided by Fortune. The likelihood of appearing at an execution site in use right as the sun is about to rise by chance is essentially zero.

That is true! But his priority doesn't seem to be to stay there until something important happens, while Hoid does just that. Sigzil is more concerned with running away, preferably to just another planet - which means that he is constantly in motion. He must be, since he is being chased. So he wouldn't stay a King's Wit at one place for years like Hoid did on Roshar by the time of Stormlight.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Elegy

[KaladinWorldsinger]

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

Additionally Sigzil could care about some spren or Aiamians who do live forever.

The person doesn't even have to live forever. We know hoid cares about Jasnah and she isn't immortal

[Frustration]

Just now, KaladinWorldsinger said:

The person doesn't even have to live forever. We know hoid cares about Jasnah and she isn't immortal

Sigzil likely hasn't been back to Roshar since he started running from the Night Brigade.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

Just now, Frustration said:

Sigzil likely hasn't been back to Roshar since he started running from the Night Brigade.

We don't know when if he started running immediately after becoming a dawnshard. If sigzil was good at keeping a secret, he could have lived on Roshar for decades

[NameIess]

19 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

We don't know when if he started running immediately after becoming a dawnshard. If sigzil was good at keeping a secret, he could have lived on Roshar for decades

It doesn't seem like Sig's still a Dawnshard. If I had to guess, the Night Brigade is searching for the Dawnshard by following the trail of ex-Dawnshards. I'm guessing that's why Hoid convinced Sigzil to become a Dawnshard temporarily, to throw them off of his own trail. Maybe he though they'd stop chasing Sig once they realized he wasn't Hoid.

[Frustration]

14 minutes ago, Nameless said:

It doesn't seem like Sig's still a Dawnshard. If I had to guess, the Night Brigade is searching for the Dawnshard by following the trail of ex-Dawnshards. I'm guessing that's why Hoid convinced Sigzil to become a Dawnshard temporarily, to throw them off of his own trail. Maybe he though they'd stop chasing Sig once they realized he wasn't Hoid.

What gives you that impression?

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

What gives you that impression?

Sigzil tells Hoid that if the Night Brigade catches him, they might connect the Dawnshard to Hoid and go after him. So it seems like they're trying to retrace the Dawnshard's steps in order to find it.