I'm reading The Stormlight Archive for the first time

[Ishikk]

6 hours ago, alder24 said:

That was me as well, when I read the book for the first time. I just wanted my favorite characters to finally clash. But on the other hand I didn't because one of them could end up being killed and I didn't want any of these to to be dead!

 

Spoiler

I didn't like Szeth until Othbringer, I was waiting for Kaladin to kill him and be done with it.

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Ishikk

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, Ishikk said:

Spoiler

I didn't like Szeth at all until Othbringer so I was waiting for Kaladin to kill him and be done with it.

 

 

Spoiler

put that in spoiler...

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by alder24

[Frustration]

6 minutes ago, Ishikk said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I didn't like Szeth until Othbringer, I was waiting for Kaladin to kill him and be done with it.

 

Spoiler

Bro what?

I loved Szeth since the Prologue in WoK, a man who had to kill but wanted no part in it was incredible to me.

 

[Treamayne]

8 minutes ago, Ishikk said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I didn't like Szeth until Othbringer, I was waiting for Kaladin to kill him and be done with it.

 

7 minutes ago, alder24 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

put that in spoiler...

 

Amira - For context, those spoilers are in reference to the events of Kaladin and Szeth meeting again and the aftermath. 

Agree with @Frustration - I liked Szeth through TWoKs (slightly less in WoR). Echoes of Crying Freeman aside, I was always looking for more info on Szeth's backstory.

 

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Spoiler

I loved Szeth since the Prologue in WoK, a man who had to kill but wanted no part in it was incredible to me.

 

100% agree Szeth is such a great and conflicted character, with powerful weapon and full of mysteries. 

[Amira]

9 hours ago, alder24 said:

That was me as well, when I read the book for the first time. I just wanted my favorite characters to finally clash. But on the other hand I didn't because one of them could end up being killed and I didn't want any of these to to be dead!

Unfortunately, I accidentally saw a certain commissioned piece of art depicting Szeth and Kaladin visiting Shinovar in book 5, so...

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Echoes of Crying Freeman

What's that?

SA2, chapter 47, Shallan: So you could only reach Urithiru via portal, except for Nohadon, author of TWoK, who walked there... What was that part about Shallan tuning out Pattern when he started talking about how long she'd been using Stormlight for? Does she just not want to think about her past? Speaking of which, how did Hoid (or whoever that messenger was in the chapter from her past) know ahead of time that she'd be a Lightweaver? He specifically directed her to create an illusion... I don't get it.

By the way, which cosmere books does one have to read to learn cosmere lore? So far nothing I've read has taught me what shards are, what aethers are, who Adonalsium is, what investiture is, etc. Instead I've accidentally picked up all these things from the fandom (oops).

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 47, Shallan: So you could only reach Urithiru via portal, except for Nohadon, author of TWoK, who walked there... What was that part about Shallan tuning out Pattern when he started talking about how long she'd been using Stormlight for? Does she just not want to think about her past? Speaking of which, how did Hoid (or whoever that messenger was in the chapter from her past) know ahead of time that she'd be a Lightweaver? He specifically directed her to create an illusion... I don't get it.

I'll answer this in a spoiler tag, so you can decide how much you really want to know (many of the answers span this book and Oathbringer)

Spoiler

Shallan is absolutely avoiding anything that makes her think of her past. If you recall WoR Ch 19 - her trauma is such that she has repressed memories and dissociative fugue states

Spoiler

These Traumas are uncovered one-by-one in books 2, 3, and 4 so far

Spoiler

As she recovers her memories and can no longer ignore the past, she devolves into a weird version of Dissociative Identity Disorder instead of acknowledging the trauma

 

 

 

Quote

By the way, which cosmere books does one have to read to learn cosmere lore? So far nothing I've read has taught me what shards are, what aethers are, who Adonalsium is, what investiture is, etc. Instead I've accidentally picked up all these things from the fandom (oops).

Tidbits on the Shards are doled out in most Cosmere books, with Stormlight Archive having the most information on them

We don't know much about Adonalsium - first mention was Mistborn book 3 - Hero of Ages

We are just starting to get information on the Aethers - you can request a copy of the unpublished non-canon Aether of Night here, but it is old and not canon. Many peices of it were moved into other Cosmere works, Still cool, but much has changed since Sanderson wrote this early draft 20ish years ago

The nature of Investiture is in every series (even if the characters in-story don't use that word). For example, Surgebinding is an expression of Investiture on Roshar. A lot of information here comes from the Ars Arcanum from each book/series.

By Series:

Spoiler

Elantris: Very Cosmere light since it came first - first appearance of Hoid and does have some discussion on the Cogitive Realm - but not in those terms

The Emperor's Soul: Introduction to the three realms (Physical Cognitive and Spiritual)

Warbreaker: Some introduction to Investiture (a type of at least) and how quantities of investiture can have additional effects. First appearance of some characters important to Stormlight Archive

Mistborn Era 1: Early discussion about Shards (though two specific ones)

Mistborn Secret History: Huge introduction to Shadesmar, Shards and other Cosmere Realmatics

Mistborn Era 2: More of the previous, with expanding information on larger Cosmere Realmatics and things

White Sand: Introduction to some Investiture aspects - but not in those terms

Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell: Introduction to some Cognitive Realm~ish issues - but not in those terms

Sixth of the Dusk: Introduction to some Shard related concepts - but not in those terms

Then, of course there is the Coppermind and Arcanum. Once you are not worried about spoilers, much of these topics and concepts are explained in the Coppermind Wiki, with links to the Arcanum when a source is one of the Words of Brandon from an event, signing or Q&A. (links should go to something non-spoilery for you now)

One topic I can possibly shed some light on, since it almost exclusively comes from Q&As and doesn't really spoil any of the individual stories, is part of the nature of Investiture:

Spoiler

In our world, Matter and Energy are the same thing and can be converted into each other (e=mc²). In the Cosmere, Investiture is a third state in this equation with Energy and Matter both able to convert into Investiture, and Investiture can Convert into Energy or Matter

WoB:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

The cosmere takes physics from our universe, and adds additional layers to it. Where we have energy and matter (simplified), the cosmere has additional building blocks that make reality. Investiture is one of these. It IS possible to change matter, to energy, to investiture, and back.

Quote

yurisses

You once said that Investiture follows its own version of the laws of thermodynamics. The first one is that Investiture is neither created nor destroyed.

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, the idea is that there is a third item in the equations--matter, energy, and investiture. That's the basis of how they work.

 

Quote

What's that?

From Wikipedia

Quote

Crying Freeman (クライング フリーマン, Kuraingu Furīman) is a Japanese manga series written by Kazuo Koike and illustrated by Ryoichi Ikegami. Crying Freeman follows a Japanese assassin hypnotized and trained by the Chinese mafia (called the "108 Dragons") to serve as its agent and covered in a vast and complex dragon tattoo. A quiet but complicated killer, Freeman reflexively sheds tears after every killing as a sign of regret.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Treamayne
WoB

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Amira said:

Unfortunately, I accidentally saw a certain commissioned piece of art depicting Szeth and Kaladin visiting Shinovar in book 5, so...

Well, this is Szeth's flashback book, and character doesn't have to be alive for flashbacks, sooo. Just saying.

11 hours ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 47, Shallan: So you could only reach Urithiru via portal, except for Nohadon, author of TWoK, who walked there... What was that part about Shallan tuning out Pattern when he started talking about how long she'd been using Stormlight for? Does she just not want to think about her past? Speaking of which, how did Hoid (or whoever that messenger was in the chapter from her past) know ahead of time that she'd be a Lightweaver? He specifically directed her to create an illusion... I don't get it.

You are asking some very good questions here. Congrats, you're on the right path. Some of this questions might get answered in this book. So, quoting Brandon - RAFO - Read And Find Out.  

11 hours ago, Amira said:

By the way, which cosmere books does one have to read to learn cosmere lore? So far nothing I've read has taught me what shards are, what aethers are, who Adonalsium is, what investiture is, etc.

There is a lot. Like all of them. List posted above is great summary. Those answers will slowly be appearing in books, but at first there isn't much. I put in spoiler tag some of the answers, trying not to spoil anything, many of those things we knew partially from WoBs first, before apearing in books.

Spoiler

Adonalsium was a god, that was Shattered and splintered (divided) into 16 equal parts, known as Shards.

Shard is a almost infinite power (investiture), held and controlled by a Vessel (person), Shards have Intent that shapes Vessel's mind and actions. Shards can use their power (investiture) for many god-like actions, they can give that power to people and grant them surges (magic) and investiture. You should already knew few Shard's names, that names are their Intent.

Aethers are some entities that can grant people powers, tbf we just got introduced to them in last two books, so its new for us, but there were some informations about them previously from Brandon and one of his not released books.

Investiture is a magical energy that powers surges (magic). Investiture can take many, many different forms, one of them is Stormlight. When we say something is invested, that means that it has investiture in it, like humans are all a little bit invested, but this is mostly connected to their souls and they can't use it. Kaladin, when inhaling Stormlight is becoming more invested, as he has more investiture in him. He can use it, at least investiture in form of Stormlight, to use his surges, magical abilities.

If someone thinks that is revealing too much information, please point it out, I can edit it.

Quote

Instead I've accidentally picked up all these things from the fandom (oops).

Well, that's better than me, when I first read  all Brandon books, like 10 years ago, I didn't even realised that it's all connected. Then I started to look at some things on Wiki, and I was very surprised to know it's all in the same world. And I have to read all of it again.

Edited January 10, 2023 by alder24

[Treamayne]

58 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Spoiler

Adonalsium was a god, that was Shattered and splintered into 16 equal parts, known as Shards.

Shard is a almost infinite power (investiture), held and controlled by a Vessel (person), Shards have Intent that shapes Vessel's mind and actions. Shards can use their power (investiture) for many god-like actions, they can give that power to people and grant them surges (magic) and investiture. You should already knew few Shard's names, that names are their Intent.

Aethers are some entities that can grant people powers, tbf we just got introduced to them in last two books, so its new for us, but there were some informations about them previously from Brandon and one of his not released books.

Investiture is a magical energy that powers surges (magic). Investiture can take many, many different forms, one of them is Stormlight. When we say something is invested, that means that it has investiture in it, like humans are all a little bit invested, but this is mostly connected to their souls and they can't use it. Kaladin, when inhaling Stormlight is becoming more invested, as he has more investiture in him. He can use it, at least investiture in form of Stormlight, to use his surges, magical abilities.

If someone thinks that is revealing too much information, please point it out, I can edit it.

I would quibble some semantics, but it's a decent general spoiler-free overview. I'll supplement with some definitions (especially the easily confused ones). Also spoiler tagged so you can decide if you would rather know now or RAFO:

Spoiler

Vessel: A Sapient mind bonded to a quantity of Investiture. Over time, the Intent of that investiture can shape the vessel holding the power, just as the mind of the Vessel guides and uses the investiture it Commands.

Splinter: An fully autonomous entity of investiture. A Splinter does not usually have a Vessel. A Splinter without a Vessel will, given enough time, develop Sapience (but may be created by a Shard intentionally to already have Sapience). Generally a Splinter will be formed from one Shard's Investiture, but it may be possible for investiture from two or more Shards to form a single Splinter.

Splintered: A large quantity of investiture that has been destroyed and broken into smaller pieces. If that investiture had a Vessel, the process (so far as we know) kills the Vessel.

Avatar: A non-independent partially autonomous portion of a Shard that may or may not have a Vessel. While the Vessel/Personality of an Avatar may be distinct - the power remains Connected to the Shard from whence it came. The Avatar may or may not know/realize its Connection to that Shard.

Sliver: A Sapient Physical Entity that has, at some time, been a vessel for a Splinter, Avatar, Shard or other significant quantity of investiture

Note: Some terms are used incorrectly by characters in books (unreliable narrators) because, like we-the-audience, they are also trying to figure out what the storms is going on.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Returned]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:29 PM, Amira said:

Yay, Kaladin gave Shen a spear! I'm proud of you, Kaladin.

One other thing I especially liked about this scene is that Kaladin honestly confessed that he didn't do it before because he was afraid and apologized for it. I thought it was really introspective and honest, and courageous for him to express his feelings about that failure so openly. He didn't just do the right thing in the end, he also grew by confronting a fault in himself and his behavior.

 

On 1/7/2023 at 7:22 PM, Amira said:

You all: "Isn't this part great? What do you think of this? And how about that?" Me: "So, um, when does Kaladin learn to fly and when does he fight Szeth?"
In all seriousness, though, I understand where you're coming from, since both Kaladin and Shallan are starting to really figure out their powers and come into their own.

I'm right there with you! But the older I've gotten the more I appreciate being invested enough to suffer that anticipation at all. Some fiction is nothing but climactic events, and sometimes they're even good, but it's the setups and development of characters and events that tend to stick with me.

[Amira]

SA2, chapter 48, Shallan's past: His name wasn't actually mentioned in this chapter specifically, but it just reminded me - what's up with Shallan's dad being Lin and Kaladin's dad being Lirin?

12 hours ago, alder24 said:

Well, this is Szeth's flashback book, and character doesn't have to be alive for flashbacks, sooo. Just saying.

Nice try, but (1) flying Kaladin isn't going to be in Szeth's past, and (2) even without knowing that Szeth survives into book 5, just from a storytelling perspective, it's pretty clear Szeth isn't going to die in book 2. He's too powerful, central, and mysterious. There's too much we don't know about him. He clearly has lots more to give to the story.

On 1/8/2023 at 8:29 PM, Amira said:

Yay, Kaladin gave Shen a spear! I'm proud of you, Kaladin.

By the way, this is why I don't think Kaladin is in over his head. Even though it took him a while, he figured out what was the right thing to do. Now he just has to figure that out about Moash and Amaram and he'll be good.

[TheOtherDave]

19 hours ago, Amira said:

what's up with Shallan's dad being Lin and Kaladin's dad being?

At least so far, it’s just a coincidence, and I’d be surprised if that changes.

 

Like, the “but that doesn’t make any sense” kind of surprised, not the “I storming knew it!” kind.

[TheOtherDave]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:48 AM, Amira said:

Hm, my rep says I'm a Dakhor Monk. What book is that from?

Elantris

[Amira]

SA2, chapter 49: So nice to see that Shallan and Adolin are continuing to get along! They both seemed to open up quite a lot to each other during this meeting. I like it! What do people call this ship? Shalladolin? Why did Shallan want to stay outside till the very last second before the storm hit? Was I supposed to understand that, or will that be explained later? At the end, Shallan seemed to think that the other women were giving her dirty looks because they were jealous of her claiming Adolin, but I think they gave her dirty looks because they don't like Adolin and now by association don't like her. I think she misinterpreted.

My rep says I'm a forger. I wonder what I'm forging. What book is this from?

[Treamayne]

19 minutes ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 49: Why did Shallan want to stay outside till the very last second before the storm hit? Was I supposed to understand that,

I don't think Shallan understood that. If you recall, she started very nervous (frightened?) about the coming storm and the whole concept of the bar. But, as you have already seen, if her inner artists gets fascinated by something. . .

Quote

My rep says I'm a forger. I wonder what I'm forging. What book is this from?

The Emperor's Soul. A one-story Novella set on the same world as Elantris - but not connected. We mentioned it just a few posts ago. . .

[Erklitt]

1 hour ago, Amira said:

My rep says I'm a forger. I wonder what I'm forging. What book is this from?

 

35 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

The Emperor's Soul. A one-story Novella set on the same world as Elantris - but not connected.

Published in 'Arcanum Unbounded'. And what you're forging is (slight spoiler, but something you find out pretty much at the beginning of the story, so it's really more of a teaser than a spoiler):

 

Spoiler

You're making objects look different - better - from what they really are. You make a broken stained glass window look whole again. An everyday table looks like a carpentry masterpiece once you're done with it.

Even the following is stated rather near to the beginning, but it hits much nearer to home for the story's essence, so I'll put an extra spoiler mark around it:

Spoiler

And then you're confronted with the challenge of forging a person's soul.

 

1 hour ago, Amira said:

Why did Shallan want to stay outside till the very last second before the storm hit?

The way I take it, that's just showing how her personality tends to extremes. I'm not aware of any deeper meaning to it.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Erklitt

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Amira said:

Why did Shallan want to stay outside till the very last second before the storm hit? Was I supposed to understand that, or will that be explained later?

Don't tell me you wouldn't want to do it? If I were on Roshar, one day I would surely face Highstrom as long as I could. I like storms. I think that it was the first time for Shallan to witness an incoming Highstorm from that close, and her scientist instincts just took over.

14 hours ago, Amira said:

At the end, Shallan seemed to think that the other women were giving her dirty looks because they were jealous of her claiming Adolin, but I think they gave her dirty looks because they don't like Adolin and now by association don't like her. I think she misinterpreted.

Maybe, but he is a Highprince, and relative of the King, heir of the Kholin House. He is one of the most powerful people in Alethkar, and suddenly some girl out of nowhere is his fiancee. Maybe they don't like him (most likely all of them dated him at some point), but they like the power he has. So she is in the room with all of Adolin's exes. Probably.

14 hours ago, Amira said:

My rep says I'm a forger. I wonder what I'm forging. What book is this from?

The Emperor's Soul. Short novel. Forger can make object look different.

Edited January 12, 2023 by alder24

[Amira]

SA2, chapter 50: Nice to see that Adolin likes Shallan as much as Shallan likes Adolin. Yes, I approve of the plan of Adolin killing Sadeas. Good plan, Adolin.

Chapter 51: Yikes, I think we can thank stormform for Eshonai's sudden change of heart!

By the way, I no longer believe Jasnah and Shallan's theory that the Parshmen are voidbringers. It sounded like the Parshmen are Parshendi slaveform. It is possible that one of the Parshendi forms is what was called voidbringers, but it also seems likely that the voidbringers might be something else entirely. Really looking forward to hearing what Shen wanted to tell Kaladin. Maybe he'll tell him his real name, since "Shen" was something Kaladin made up when Shen didn't give his name.

[Ishikk]

3 hours ago, Amira said:

By the way, I no longer believe Jasnah and Shallan's theory that the Parshmen are voidbringers. It sounded like the Parshmen are Parshendi slaveform. It is possible that one of the Parshendi forms is what was called voidbringers, but it also seems likely that the voidbringers might be something else entirely. 

Why do you think that? -Not saying yes or no, just curious because when I read it I did not think that.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Amira said:

Really looking forward to hearing what Shen wanted to tell Kaladin. Maybe he'll tell him his real name, since "Shen" was something Kaladin made up when Shen didn't give his name.

I think you'll be happy with the direction this takes in the coming chapters and books.

 

PS: did we answer your Cosmere Lore  question from last Monday?

Edited January 12, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Amira]

2 hours ago, Ishikk said:

Why do you think that? -Not saying yes or no, just curious because when I read it I did not think that.

Which part? The parshment just don't seem to be something different than the parshendi. Just a different form. I might still be wrong. But if the parshmen and parshendi are the same, then the parshman can't be voidbringers on their own. Either both parshmen and parshendi are voidbringers, or they both aren't.

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

PS: did we answer your Cosmere Lore  question from last Monday?

Yes. To the extent that I can understand before reading them, haha.

SA2, chapter 52: Yay Kaladin flying!!!!!!!!! Shallan's brother was the Shardbearer at the beginning of book 1 who killed all of Kaladin's friends?!

5 hours ago, Amira said:

Really looking forward to hearing what Shen wanted to tell Kaladin. Maybe he'll tell him his real name, since "Shen" was something Kaladin made up when Shen didn't give his name.

I was right! But where is he going??

[Marabout]

Awww

I was waiting to see your reaction to the Adolin / Shallan armor crapping conversation and nothing?

For shame!

[alder24]

26 minutes ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 52: Yay Kaladin flying!!!!!!!!!

Yes! It finally happened! Was it worth waiting?

[Amira]

31 minutes ago, Marabout said:

Awww

I was waiting to see your reaction to the Adolin / Shallan armor crapping conversation and nothing?

For shame!

Aw, sorry I disappointed you! I'm not really into poop humor, but my favorite part about that bit was how Shallan cast away Jasnah's and Tyn's expectations of her, decided to just be herself, and found that Adolin liked her for it. That was great. Usually I don't feel the romantic connection between book characters, but in this case I do.

10 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes! It finally happened! Was it worth waiting?

It was great! Now I want his rematch with Szeth! Do I have to wait until the climax for that?

[alder24]

14 minutes ago, Amira said:

Aw, sorry I disappointed you! I'm not really into poop humor, but my favorite part about that bit was how Shallan cast away Jasnah's and Tyn's expectations of her, decided to just be herself, and found that Adolin liked her for it. That was great. Usually I don't feel the romantic connection between book characters, but in this case I do.

Yes, I loved that as well!

15 minutes ago, Amira said:

It was great! Now I want his rematch with Szeth! Do I have to wait until the climax for that?

Well, let me just say that you won't be disappointed with what is going to happen from this point on