I'm reading The Stormlight Archive for the first time

[Treamayne Seer]

48 minutes ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 21, Shallan: That was a very nice chapter. Shallan is getting good at maneuvering people. I loved the part where Pattern helped!! That was great!! I was a little disappointed with the part where she decided to do away with Tvlakv. It's not like he liked her before, but now she's downright made an enemy of him. I feel like there could have been a way for her to free the slaves without doing what she did. If Dalinar bought them, he would have set them free (not that Shallan knew that). Though I understand if Shallan didn't want them to be sold in the first place, something that would only encourage Tvlakv to keep on slaving. Either way, my theory is that we'll see more of Tvlakv in the future, perhaps he'll come back for revenge in book 3?

Maybe I'm just a bad person, but in this chapter I only felt that Tvlakv was - finally - reaping what he had sewn. And thanks to Pattern, Shallan knew she was on the tightrope with him and he would keep trying to find an excuse to enslave her (or at least keep trying to get back at her for shanghai-ing him into this trip in the first place).

 

[Amira Shardbearer]

On 11/19/2022 at 4:18 PM, Treamayne said:

Maybe I'm just a bad person, but in this chapter I only felt that Tvlakv was - finally - reaping what he had sewn. And thanks to Pattern, Shallan knew she was on the tightrope with him and he would keep trying to find an excuse to enslave her (or at least keep trying to get back at her for shanghai-ing him into this trip in the first place).

Or maybe I'm the bad person, caring about a jerk like Tvlakv XD

SA2, chapter 22, Kaladin: I'm glad Kaladin decided to tell Dalinar about Amaram. Looking forward to seeing where this goes next. Nice to see the development with Shen. I was looking forward to this. I wish Kaladin tried to help him more. Just give him a spear and when people complain, tell them Shen was part of Bridge Four. I know this probably wouldn't go across well, but someone has to make the first move to bring about change, you know? What's this assassin at the end of the chapter? Did Szeth finally make it to the Shattered Plains??

Edit: chapter 23: I know who's trying to kill Elhokar by replacing the stones in his armor and cutting the balcony. It must be the Parshendi spies passing as Parshmen that Navani mentioned in her journal!

Edited November 23, 2022 by Amira

[king of nowhere Voidbringer]

50 minutes ago, Amira said:

Edit: chapter 23: I know who's trying to kill Elhokar by replacing the stones in his armor and cutting the balcony. It must be the Parshendi spies passing as Parshmen that Navani mentioned in her journal!

well, all I can say is that there is so much going on, so many secret societies plotting, it requires the wiki to keep the facts straight

[Beodrakis Noble-Blooded]

I am really enjoying listening to somebody discover Way of Kings for the first time. It's a lot of fun listening to the theories, knowing what is guessed right and wrong, but it is kind of annoying that I can't give any spoilers though.

 

 

On 2022-11-19 at 3:18 PM, Treamayne said:

Maybe I'm just a bad person, but in this chapter I only felt that Tvlakv was - finally - reaping what he had sewn. And thanks to Pattern, Shallan knew she was on the tightrope with him and he would keep trying to find an excuse to enslave her (or at least keep trying to get back at her for shanghai-ing him into this trip in the first place).

 

Prove me wrong, but I don't feel like Tvlakv is actively trying to enslave people. He is just trying to stay afloat in a world which despises him, even though they want his 'wares'. He is not trying to be mean, I don't feel like any human in the SA is genuinely trying to hurt everybody around them. For example, when Tvlakv kills that slave in the first book, I think that he genuinely believes he is saving the rest of the slaves. He also talks about the fact that he has big debts that need to be paid, and that he is a de facto slave to his superiors, forced to trade slaves between Alethkar and the warcamps, or risk being imprisoned. You might notice that during all that we learn about him he just trades people that are already slaves, he doesn't enslave anybody himself because he doesn't actually enjoy what he is doing, ad he doesn't earn anything from it, all his profit is instantly being sent to his superiors.

[Amira Shardbearer]

5 hours ago, Beodrakis said:

I am really enjoying listening to somebody discover Way of Kings for the first time. It's a lot of fun listening to the theories, knowing what is guessed right and wrong

I'm glad you're enjoying it!

SA2, chapter 24, Shallan: Hm, not sure what to make of Tyn. I like that Shallan's reality is so outlandish that Tyn believes she's making it up. Shows how much Shallan has achieved. Honestly, Tyn makes me nervous. I hope Shallan knows how to handle her... I wonder what Shallan had in mind when she pretended to have some dirt on Dalinar.

[Treamayne Seer]

On 11/27/2022 at 3:15 PM, Beodrakis said:

I am really enjoying listening to somebody discover Way of Kings for the first time. It's a lot of fun listening to the theories, knowing what is guessed right and wrong, but it is kind of annoying that I can't give any spoilers though.

Welcome to the forums, but please do not double-post. If you were not aware, this may help:

 

Spoiler

At the bottom left of the post you will see a "+" icon, a "Quote" link, and (your posts only) and Edit link. On the bottom right you will see an up arrow.

• The Up Arrow is how you thank people or "like" a post
• The "Quote" link is exactly that, when you click it the quote will be added to the reply at the bottom of the thread wherever the cursor is
  • So, if you have already started to reply before you decide to quote you can then add the quote before or after your text depending on the cursor location when you click "Quote"
• The + icon is multi-quote. As you read a thread, if you want to quote multiple items you click that for each post
  • As you click +, you should see a toaster pop-up on the bottom right of the browser window showing how many quotes you will have
  • They are added in the order you click the + icon, not in the original post order, so you can set the order of quotes for your reply
  • When you are ready to reply, click on the toaster pop-up and it will take you directly to the reply section and add the quotes automatically
• Finally, you can also highlight a small section of a post and, when hovering over the highlit portion, click the "Quote" button that pops up.
• Also note that you can move quotes after they have been added to your reply.
  • For example, you add a quote and realize there are no empty lines below it for you to type - so you can hit "enter" before the quote to make an empty line then when you hover over a quote you will see a 4-way arrow at the top-left that you can use to drag the quote up (or down)  and move the quote to before the empty line. . .
• Use the Edit link to make changes to a completed post or add information to your post if it is the most recent (to avoid double posting)
  • Quote buttons will still send a quote to "Reply" if you have a post open for edit, but it is easy to cut/paste the quote to the Edit box
  • Editing allows you to add a reason for the edit (Spelling and grammar (SPAG), formatting, clarification, new information, etc.), but it is not required.

Hope that helps.

On 11/27/2022 at 3:30 PM, Beodrakis said:

Prove me wrong, but I don't feel like Tvlakv is actively trying to enslave people. He is just trying to stay afloat in a world which despises him, even though they want his 'wares'. He is not trying to be mean, I don't feel like any human in the SA is genuinely trying to hurt everybody around them. For example, when Tvlakv kills that slave in the first book, I think that he genuinely believes he is saving the rest of the slaves. He also talks about the fact that he has big debts that need to be paid, and that he is a de facto slave to his superiors, forced to trade slaves between Alethkar and the warcamps, or risk being imprisoned. You might notice that during all that we learn about him he just trades people that are already slaves, he doesn't enslave anybody himself because he doesn't actually enjoy what he is doing, and he doesn't earn anything from it, all his profit is instantly being sent to his superiors.

You may be right, but that is not at all the impressions I had from the books:

Spoiler

WoK Ch 2

Quote

Tvlakv glanced at him. Then, leisurely, the slaver walked over, straightening his deep blue knit cap. “He would have gotten you all sick, you see.” His voice was lightly accented, smashing words together, not giving the proper syllables emphasis. Thaylens always sounded to Kaladin like they were mumbling. “I would not lose an entire wagon for one man.”

“He’s past the spreading stage!” Kaladin said, slamming his hands against the bars again. “If any of us were going to catch it, we’d have done so by now.”

“Hope that you don’t. I think he was past saving.”

“I told you otherwise!”

“And I should believe you, deserter?” Tvlakv said, amused.

WoK Ch 6

Quote

To the side, Tvlakv stepped up beside the lighteyed woman. He glanced at Kaladin, then sighed. “He’s a deserter, Brightness. Don’t listen to him.”

No! Kaladin felt a blazing burst of anger consume his hope. He raised hands toward Tvlakv. He’d strangle the rat, and—

Something cracked him across the back. He grunted, stumbling and falling to one knee. The noblewoman stepped back, raising her safehand to her breast in alarm. One of the army soldiers grabbed Kaladin and towed him back to his feet.

“Well,” she finally said. “That is unfortunate.”

“I can fight,” Kaladin growled against the pain. “Give me a spear. Let me—”

She raised her rod, cutting him off.

“Brightness,” Tvlakv said, not meeting Kaladin’s eyes. “I would not trust him with a weapon. It is true that he is a murderer, but he is also known to disobey and lead rebellions against his masters. I couldn’t sell him to you as a bonded soldier. My conscience, it would not allow it.” He hesitated. “The men in his wagon, he might have corrupted them all with talk of escape. My honor demands that I tell you this.”

WoR Ch 11

Quote

Slaving was a perfectly legal profession. Most of the time. Only this was the Frostlands, far from the rule of any group or nation. Who was to say what was legal here and what was not?

Be calm, she told herself forcefully. They wouldn’t have awakened you politely if they were planning something like that.

Selling a Vorin woman of high dahn—which the dress marked her as being—would be a risky gambit for a slaver. Most owners in civilized lands would require documentation of the slave’s past, and it was rare indeed that a lighteyes was made a slave, aside from ardents. Usually someone of higher breeding would simply be executed instead. Slavery was a mercy for the lower classes.

“Brightness?” the slaver asked nervously.

She was thinking like a scholar again, to distract herself. She’d need to get past that.

“What is your name?” Shallan asked. She hadn’t intended to make her voice quite so emotionless, but the shock of what she’d seen left her in turmoil.

The man stepped back at her tone. “I am Tvlakv, humble merchant.”

“Slaver,” Shallan said, standing up and pushing her hair back from her face.

“As I said. A merchant.”

His two guards watched her as they loaded equipment onto the lead wagon. She did not miss the cudgels they carried prominently at their waists. She’d had a sphere in her hand as she walked last night, hadn’t she?

Memories of that made her feet flare up again. She had to grit her teeth against the agony as painspren, like orange hands made of sinew, clawed out of the ground nearby. She’d need to clean her wounds, but bloodied and bruised as they were, she wasn’t going to be walking anywhere anytime soon. Those wagons had seats. . . .

They likely stole the sphere from me, she thought. She felt around in her safepouch. The other spheres were still there, but the sleeve was unbuttoned. Had she done that? Had they peeked? She couldn’t suppress a blush at the thought.

The two guards regarded her hungrily. Tvlakv acted humble, but his leering eyes were also very eager. These men were one step from robbing her.

WoR Ch 13

Quote

Then, she climbed in and pulled the cage door shut. She held her hand out through the bars toward Tvlakv.

“Brightness?”

“The key,” she said.

“Oh.” He pulled it out of a pocket, regarding it for a moment—too long a moment—before handing it to her.

 

Interpretation and context are important (one of the great things about reading as a medium as opposed to film/TV) but this is what I get out of those references:

• When it comes to treating anybody (slaves or otherwise) like he does in this scene; it implies that the person no longer considers the abused to actually be people. I don't think a slaver could abuse, malnourish, and murder the slaves in their charge if they didn't, on a fundamental level, stop thinking of them as people - and only consider them to be cattle/product. It's the same documented mindset of sociopaths and psychopaths that engage in physical, mental, and/or emotional torture.
• To go back on his word and undercut Kaladin for revenge, and the small possibility of better sales for being seen as "honest," these spiteful tactics do not seem like a "good merchant in a bad situation" to me.
• I'm fairly certain that if Shallan had been Darkeyed (or if Tvlakv had had the materials to fake a slave contract) in this scene, he would definitely have turned Shallan into a slave. Only the fact that she was Lighteyed and "might be missed" saves her here.
• This just reinforces that even after they have been traveling together for a bit, Tvlakv is still contemplating how to resolve the situation to his best benefit. If he had decided that meant killing her and taking the trunk of goods or faking a slave contract for her, I have no doubt that is what he would have done.

Again, that is all how the character and those interactions felt to me. Tvlakv didn't really feel "malicious" as much as eternally selfish and pragmatic. Whatever situation would be best for Tvlakv is the path he would choose. As for his debts - that's WoR Ch 15:

Spoiler

Shallan thought. I have no makeup; I don’t even have shoes to wear.

“. . . she could be someone important,” Tvlakv’s voice said abruptly nearby. Shallan jumped, then looked to the side, where Pattern now rested on the seat beside her. The voice came from there.

“She is trouble,” Tag’s voice said. Pattern’s vibrations produced a perfect imitation. “I still think we should just leave her and go.”

“It is fortunate for us,” Tvlakv’s voice said, “that the decision is not yours. You worry about making dinner. I shall worry about our little lighteyed companion. Someone is missing her, someone rich. If we can sell her back to them, Tag, it could be what finally digs us out.”

Pattern imitated the sounds of a crackling fire for a short time, then fell silent.

The precise reproduction of the conversation was marvelous. This, Shallan thought, could be very useful.

Unfortunately, something needed to be done about Tvlakv. She couldn’t have him regarding her as something to be sold back to those missing her—that was discomfortingly close to viewing her as a slave. If she let him continue in such a mindset, she’d spend the entire trip worrying about him and his thugs.

So what would Jasnah do, in this situation?

Gritting her teeth, Shallan slipped down off the wagon, stepping gingerly on her wounded feet. She could walk, barely. She waited for the painspren to retreat, then—covering up her agony—she approached the meager fire and sat down. “Tag, you are excused.”

He looked to Tvlakv, who nodded. Tag retreated to check on the parshmen. Bluth had gone to scout the area, as he often did at night, checking for signs of others passing this way.

“It is time to discuss your payment,” Shallan said.

“Service to one so illustrious is payment in itself, of course.”

“Of course,” she said, meeting his eyes. Don’t back down. You can do this. “But a merchant must make a living. I am not blind, Tvlakv. Your men do not agree with your decision to help me. They think it a waste.”

Tvlakv glanced at Tag, looking unsettled. Hopefully, he wondered what else she had guessed.

“Upon arriving at the Shattered Plains,” Shallan said, “I will acquire a grand fortune. I do not have it yet.”

“That is . . . unfortunate.”

“Not in the slightest,” Shallan said. “It is an opportunity, tradesman Tvlakv. The fortune I will acquire is the result of a betrothal. If I arrive safely, those who rescued me—saved me from pirates, sacrificed greatly to see me brought to my new family—will undoubtedly be well rewarded.”

“I am but a humble servant,” Tvlakv said with a broad, false smile. “Rewards are the farthest thing from my mind.”

He thinks I’m lying about the fortune. Shallan ground her teeth in frustration, anger beginning to burn inside of her. This was just what Kabsal had done! Treating her like a plaything, a means to an end, not a real person.

She leaned closer to Tvlakv into the firelight. “Do not toy with me, slaver.”

“I wouldn’t dare—”

“You have no idea the storm you have wandered into,” Shallan hissed, holding his eyes. “You have no idea what stakes have been wagered upon my arrival. Take your petty schemes and stuff them in a crevice. Do as I say, and I will see your debts canceled. You will be a free man again.”

“What? How . . . how did you—”

Shallan stood up, cutting him off.

The snake oil is dripping off of Tvlakv here. And just because we find out he has debts that are forcing him into a slave caravan route to/from the Shattered Plains does not mean he was a previously great merchant who is now "having it rough." For all we know, before his debts maybe he ran one of the slave pens in a larger city where he could do more damage to more people (slaves/wares) in the name of bigger profits. At least, that's the impression I had - he had no qualms with the morals and violence of his slave trade, just with the fact that his caravan route wasn't very profitable for the high amount of time spent.

Compare to Vstim for how reputable Thaylen merchants behave.

On 11/27/2022 at 8:22 PM, Amira said:

I'm glad you're enjoying it!

SA2, chapter 24, Shallan: Hm, not sure what to make of Tyn. I like that Shallan's reality is so outlandish that Tyn believes she's making it up. Shows how much Shallan has achieved.

Glad you are still enjoying it too.

Quote

Honestly, Tyn makes me nervous.

She should

Quote

I wonder what Shallan had in mind when she pretended to have some dirt on Dalinar.

I'm not sure she had anything in mind. . . Shallan seems like a "talk first, plan later" type to me (especially in this book)

Edited January 4 by Treamayne
SPAGF

[Beodrakis Noble-Blooded]

18 hours ago, Treamayne said:

The snake oil is dripping off of Tvlakv here. And just because we find out he has debts that are forcing him into a slave caravan route to/from the Shattered Plains does not mean he was a previously great merchant who is now "having it rough." For all we know, before his debts maybe he ran one of the slave pens in a larger city where he could do more damage to more people (slaves/wares) in the name of bigger profits. At least, that's the impression I had - he had no qualms with the morals and violence of his slave trade, just with the fact that his caravan route wasn't very profitable for the high amount of time spent.

I actually believe that slave trade to the shattered plains would be very profitable, think about it. There are people on the shattered plains, sure, but you can't just turn random dark eyes into slaves, and that need for slaves would force most people into line, most resources there are soulcast, because of that there is no need for developed supply routes, which means that no-one is going to pour effort into them. The Shattered plains still require a good influx of slaves, the bridge crews use them up pretty quickly, and slaves aren't items you can just soulcast out of rock, they have to be shipped over from Alethkar proper, and like Shallan notes, it is rife with bandits. This contributes to the fact that slaves are an extremely valuable commodity on the Shattered Plains, but the path to get there is dangerous, which is why not many slavers go that route. Tvlakv did it because he had to get money fast, and had very little to lose, not because he enjoyed watching people suffer. 

You also said that He is trying to sell Shallan, I don't think that this is the case, he was planning to sell her back to her family, sure, but he insists that it is to dig them out of debt, not for personal profit, and you should also keep in mind that Tvlakv and his goons decided not to rob her when they found her on the beach, they saved her life, Shallan was too unpracticed when it came to soulcasting, and couldn't have made food for herself, if Tvlakv hadn't shown up, she probably would have died of thirst, exposure, or starvation, as for when he lingered when giving the key, he gave it with only a short pause, indicating that he probably felt sorta guilty about his profession, because so far, Shallan hasn't revealed herself as dangerous yet.

Tvlakv is by no means a good person, the amounts of lives he ruined, and killing slaves is definitely not a good sign, he needs a serious redemption arc to ever get into the tranquiline halls, if that is even possible at this point. I just wanted to say that Tvlakv is not trying to be evil, everyone probably judges him for what he did to Kaladin, and what he might have wanted to do to Shallan, but I believe that he should only be charged for the moral crimes he actually committed, because he didn't do anything against Kaladin, he was already a slave at that point and Tvlakv could do nothing for him at that point without seriously damaging himself. As for Shallan, he might have wanted to do something, but he didn't, and that makes all the difference, he exercises some self control over those selfish urges, but sometimes he doesn't have a choice that helps someone else without seriously hurting himself in the process.

btw, thanks for that double posting comment, I didn't know.

[Crylorenzo Forescout]

Finally caught up reading about your reading! Very fun to follow along! You could have a Youtube channel with 2 minute video updates and I'd follow along, but the discussion here is also very fun.

[Amira Shardbearer]

On 11/29/2022 at 4:55 AM, Crylorenzo said:

Finally caught up reading about your reading! Very fun to follow along! You could have a Youtube channel with 2 minute video updates and I'd follow along, but the discussion here is also very fun.

For some reason it makes me happy to hear you'd follow my nonexistent YouTube channel

SA2, chapter 25, Kaladin: Lol, I couldn't stop laughing at Kaladin on that one horse. My guess is that it will become his horse. I hope Kaladin changes his mind and let's that one person train him to fight against Shardbearers. Now he's about to go patrolling outside the warcamps with his bridgemen. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't end up running into Shallan! And something tells me they're not gonna get along at first (even beyond Syl and Pattern hating each other).

My rep says I have Hoid's job. Speaking of which, I don't believe Wit has made an appearance in book 2 yet.

[king of nowhere Voidbringer]

16 hours ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 25, Kaladin: Lol, I couldn't stop laughing at Kaladin on that one horse. My guess is that it will become his horse. I hope Kaladin changes his mind and let's that one person train him to fight against Shardbearers. Now he's about to go patrolling outside the warcamps with his bridgemen. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't end up running into Shallan! And something tells me they're not gonna get along at first (even beyond Syl and Pattern hating each other).

indeed, i believe the sole reason for that scene is to set up such an encounter...

[Amira Shardbearer]

SA2, chapter 26, Adolin: Nice, Eshonai finally got the word across that she wants to meet with Dalinar! From what I could tell, that seemed the most important part of the chapter. Besides that it was mostly telling us that things are still happening. Numbers are still mysteriously showing up near Dalinar during highstorms (outside his room this time instead of inside? Not sure where exactly the numbers appeared). The other Alethi still don't like the Kholins, Adolin and his family are still wondering about Jasnah and Shallan. And... how did the bridgemen get one of Sadeas' bridges?

[Treamayne Seer]

3 hours ago, Amira said:

how did the bridgemen get one of Sadeas' bridges?

I don't think it was explicitly stated. . .

Presumably, when Dalinar traded Oathbringer for the bridgemen and told them to "bring your things," at least some of the crews brought their bridges so they could travel back to Dalinar's warcamp.

[Amira Shardbearer]

SA2, chapter 27, Shallan's past: so Shallan's father killed her mother. I wonder why Shallan can see her mother's soul and her brother can't. And what does it mean that her soul is in a box? So many questions...

[king of nowhere Voidbringer]

14 hours ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 27, Shallan's past: so Shallan's father killed her mother. I wonder why Shallan can see her mother's soul and her brother can't. And what does it mean that her soul is in a box? So many questions...

so many spoilers...

i won't say anything on the matter, least i inadvertently give something away

[Amira Shardbearer]

SA2, chapter 28, Shallan: WTF... Sorry guys, but I lost some respect for Shallan for letting Tyn push her into doing that, and I lost some respect for Kaladin for giving Shallan his boots. I mean, I don't mind if Shallan wants to practice her acting skills, but it should be her decision how, where, when, and what to do. If she really wanted to strangle Tyn, the best way to do that would have been to not go along with Tyn's game...

[Frustration Sliver]

7 minutes ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 28, Shallan: WTF... Sorry guys, but I lost some respect for Shallan for letting Tyn push her into doing that, and I lost some respect for Kaladin for giving Shallan his boots. I mean, I don't mind if Shallan wants to practice her acting skills, but it should be her decision how, where, when, and what to do. If she really wanted to strangle Tyn, the best way to do that would have been to not go along with Tyn's game...

Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought that whole thing was dumb.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Ookla the Frustrated.

[Valinor Spren Bridgeman]

5 minutes ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 28, Shallan: WTF... Sorry guys, but I lost some respect for Shallan for letting Tyn push her into doing that, and I lost some respect for Kaladin for giving Shallan his boots. I mean, I don't mind if Shallan wants to practice her acting skills, but it should be her decision how, where, when, and what to do. If she really wanted to strangle Tyn, the best way to do that would have been to not go along with Tyn's game...

Really though! I thought it was so annoying.... Tin and her influence on Shallan really grinds my gears.

Although I was proud of Kaladin since I know giving his boots away would have been difficult and not his first reaction.

[alder24 Elantrian]

1 hour ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 28, Shallan: WTF... Sorry guys, but I lost some respect for Shallan for letting Tyn push her into doing that, and I lost some respect for Kaladin for giving Shallan his boots. I mean, I don't mind if Shallan wants to practice her acting skills, but it should be her decision how, where, when, and what to do. If she really wanted to strangle Tyn, the best way to do that would have been to not go along with Tyn's game...

Oh yes Tyn is annoying, but she didn't really had time to talk with Tyn and tell her I don't want to do it. And what Shallan should do when Tyn announced her as a princess? Say it's a joke? Ignore her? At that point whatever she does, she will be embarrassed, so following Tyn would be the best option, as it wouldn't be ever known to Kal that it was a joke/lie.

But that scene was still funny and great as first interaction between Kal and Shallan. 

[Treamayne Seer]

On 12/11/2022 at 5:03 PM, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 28, Shallan: WTF... Sorry guys, but I lost some respect for Shallan for letting Tyn push her into doing that, and I lost some respect for Kaladin for giving Shallan his boots.

On 12/11/2022 at 5:07 PM, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought that whole thing was dumb.

This was so painful to read - and I usually skip most of the chapter on re-reads; but I do think it serves a purpose in that:

• It really shows how little Tyn cares about others (allies, enemies, neutral)
• It shows how much Shallan is still swayed by peer pressure and/or what she perceives as "required"
  • Tyn's teaching her, so she "needs" to do as she's told
• It does become the "gift that keeps on giving" as it is referenced later in the series. . .

On 12/11/2022 at 6:38 PM, alder24 said:

But that scene was still funny and great as first interaction between Kal and Shallan. 

I found it to be neither funny nor a "good first interaction" - but it was good to finally see Kaladin through somebody else's POV.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Beodrakis Noble-Blooded]

17 hours ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 28, Shallan: WTF... Sorry guys, but I lost some respect for Shallan for letting Tyn push her into doing that,.

nah, knowing Shallan's absolute fear of embarrassment, it becomes very clear why she did that, hoping that some insignificant guard she wouldn't meet again wouldn't think about it much, as a pose to seeming weak in front of Tyn, who she is trying to learn from. Although Shallan's actions are kinda stupid I get why she does them.

BTW: People around here love Kaladin way too much, like come on, whoever hurts Kaladin is instantly hated by everyone, and painted in a bad light. Kaladin is a depressed pessimist, and those people who hurt him made him who he is. cut them some slack.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Beodrakis

[Amira Shardbearer]

SA2, chapter 29: Sadeas and Ialai continue to be snakes, but I don't think resigning as Highprince of Information will end well for Sadeas, I think it will give Dalinar an opening to have someone better appointed. Meanwhile Adolin is rocking it, I'm starting to like his character more. 

[Treamayne Seer]

1 hour ago, Amira said:

Meanwhile Adolin is rocking it, I'm starting to like his character more

Adolin certainly received some much-needed character development in WoR. For me the highpoint is Ch 66 (spoiler - so you may want to wait and come back to read this when you get that far):

 

Spoiler

Quote

Kaladin frowned. “Wait. Are you wearing cologne? In prison?”

“Well, there was no need to be barbaric, just because I was incarcerated.”

“Storms, you’re spoiled,” Kaladin said, smiling.

“I’m refined, you insolent farmer,” Adolin said. Then he grinned. 

Not only is Adolin finally able to get passed his bruised ego from their meeting on the Tower in WOK; but Kaladin is finally able to accept that a Lighteyes can be a good person (or more-accurately that people being decent or horrible is not a factor of social station or importance).

It's the start of a lot of healing for both of them

 

[Crylorenzo Forescout]

Adolin shines all throughout WoR. I never would have predicted his arc in the book. Some fun stuff to look forward to.

[Amira Shardbearer]

SA2, chapter 30: Gosh, I wish Shallan just told Tyn the truth. Like, one day just be like, "Actually, girl, I've been lying to you all this time, I'm not planning any trick on the Shattered Plains, I'm actually who I originally said I was." Anyway, wonder what's up with her seemingly random drawings? Is a sort of visions part of her surge power? I guess it makes sense. Dalinar sees visions during highstorms, and Kaladin "rode the storm" one time and saw faraway places. Shallan just does it through her drawings. I hope we get more answers!

[Treamayne Seer]

1 hour ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 30: Anyway, wonder what's up with her seemingly random drawings? Is a sort of visions part of her surge power? I guess it makes sense. Dalinar sees visions during highstorms, and Kaladin "rode the storm" one time and saw faraway places. Shallan just does it through her drawings. I hope we get more answers!

You are noticing something - but not necessarily the same something in all three cases. In this case, it is similar to something you have seen before:

TWoK Ch 9

Spoiler

“You used to be vibrant,” Syl said. “So many looked up to you, Kaladin. Your squad of soldiers. The enemies you fought. The other slaves. Even some lighteyes.”

Lunch would come soon. Then he could sleep until their bridgeleader kicked him awake for afternoon duty.

“I used to watch you fight,” Syl said. “I can barely remember it. My memories of then are fuzzy. Like looking at you through a rainstorm.”

Wait. That was odd. Syl hadn’t started following him until after his fall from the army. And she’d acted just like a regular windspren back then.