Mid-Range Game 57: Helvegen

[Araris Valerian]

Alain sat in the Tree, heedless of the Dragon's Fang scrawled across the front. What folk used as a sign for evil and mistrust had once been half of the symbol for the Aes Sedai. But, well, those didn't have much reason to come out here, at least not since the Breaking. Likely half the town didn't know what the mark meant. It surprised him a little, to see such a reaction from the people of Helgen, who normally were quite level-headed. Sure, there were some ongoing feuds, but they were more traditions at this point. A part of what kept life moving along out here, gave folks something to talk about over drinks other than wolves and failed harvests.

Wyden brought over a plate of food, which Alain acknowledged with a grunt. The man seemed a bit unsteady on his feet as he walked away, which Alain filed away as he dug into the meal. As he ate, he became convinced of a few things. Even if using the Fang was an effective way to find one of the Darkfriends, whoever was caught would likely be able to escape and continue to serve the Dark One from somewhere else. No, it was best to hunt during the light of day, while the Dark One had fewer shadows to hide his minions in.

As for his best guess for a Darkfriend? Well, Rambler (Matrim) had always seemed a bit off. And more recently, his comments about the Fang didn't seem to consider the interests of Helgen.

[Kasimir]

Just now, Bort said:

Could it even be worth not lynching someone this cycle to make sure it works? Would that even work? @Kasimir? 

If you don't lynch anyone this cycle, I will kill someone. With extreme prejudice :eyes:

Which is a nicer way of saying that because there is no vote minimum, if no one votes, RNGesus will pick one of you to get lynched.

Or, you know, I could just ask Wyrm to pick. Same difference. Hope none of you pissed him off recently 

(Okay, serious talk - it'll be RNGesus. Promise.)

[Archer]

I think the only way the Fang mechanic will really hurt the elim team is if somehow someone they didn't expect to be exed gets pressured and they have to Fang that person instead, which leaves the originally planned target exposed for having had weird posts to that point. Otherwise, I'd pick a designated sacrifice and instruct them to be as confusing or low-info as possible, expecting them to flip within the first three cycles. As such, I strongly encourage everyone to make frequent, detailed takes about their suspicions so there's something to read you by if you flip. It's actually kind of hard to fake a reads list if you know you'll die but don't want to expose yourself yet. 

Also, the elims have half the votes needed to activate the Fang, and on the flip side, we need 2/3 of our side to choose to activate it if they don't want to pull that trigger. So I suspect they'll be able to decide whether they want to give up the slight thread control advantage their extra person gives them and kill a teammate C1, or delay it until the village gets frustrated enough to want an elim death via the mechanic.

28 minutes ago, Bort said:

On the subject of the Dragon's Fang, out of the options presented, I'd rather see it used sooner rather than later, just so we don't lose it by accidentally lynching a darkfriend on day 1, like Striker in the last game.

Getting a flip via exe is better than a flip the elims control, Bort

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

HEY! time to be randomly chaotic.

Squishy jello turtles!

[Mat]

14 minutes ago, Archer said:

Getting a flip via exe is better than a flip the elims control, Bort

This is a weird vote, since Bort wasn't suggesting we forgo an exe to activate the Fang. The Fang comes after execution, and its placement in the OoA disincentivizes messing with the exe to begin with. If we exe an elim today it doesn't matter what we prefer, we won't get a Fang flip.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

*shrugs* hmm. Ima go with TJ for no reason in particular.

[xinoehp512]

My thoughts on the fang: Don't use it day one, but sooner is better than later. The longer we wait, the more likely it is that our Village Elders die, leaving us with no Fang and no elim flip at all. 

48 minutes ago, Archer said:

I think the only way the Fang mechanic will really hurt the elim team is if somehow someone they didn't expect to be exed gets pressured and they have to Fang that person instead, which leaves the originally planned target exposed for having had weird posts to that point.

I mean... a dead elim is a dead elim. It brings them one step closer to total annihilation. It certainly can't help them, while it can potentially save the village.

If there wind up being a lot of inactives, it's probably worth popping the fang C2, since chances are decent that there's a lurker.

[Archer]

1 hour ago, Bort said:

I'm sat on a bus right now typing on my phone so rp will have to wait for now. I'll decide who I want to lynch later too. 

On the subject of the Dragon's Fang, out of the options presented, I'd rather see it used sooner rather than later, just so we don't lose it by accidentally lynching a darkfriend on day 1, like Striker in the last game.

Could it even be worth not lynching someone this cycle to make sure it works? Would that even work? @Kasimir? 

44 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

This is a weird vote, since Bort wasn't suggesting we forgo an exe to activate the Fang. The Fang comes after execution, and its placement in the OoA disincentivizes messing with the exe to begin with. If we exe an elim today it doesn't matter what we prefer, we won't get a Fang flip.

What Bort appears to be suggesting is that an elim kill via the exe is worse than the elim kill we'd get from the fang kill. Since the elims get to choose which one of them dies to the fang kill and will have presumably planned accordingly to mislead us from the death, I disagree with this. In theory, the kill they don't anticipate, the one arrived at through analysis that has readable conversations leading up to it, is more valuable to us than the fang death. Our best case scenario is actually that we exe an elim who is different than the one the elims planned on sacrificing. I don't think he's trying to shift focus from the fact that getting a fang kills requires a mix, given his last line, but I do think it's weird that he doesn't like the implications of an elim exe C1. Bringing up the e!Striker exe implies the elims will distance from teammates they expect to survive than from the one they expect to die. I find that unlikely. 

EDIT: Xino, how strongly do you believe in us having multiple Elders? I'm trying to decide whether or not Kas felt the game would become unbalanced if the solo Elder died C1 to the NK.  

Edited March 25, 2022 by Archer

[Stick.]

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

Also, Stick. I think it's elim-indicative for Stick when she notices/requests clarifications about small stuff, it's in order to appear very observant.

What if I'm actually just observant *cries*

1 hour ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Very much minded to agree with @_Stick_ that this misreading of the rules is more likely to come from a villager. Tentatively suspicious of Stick for how much she's downplaying it.

smh guys why do we always bring me up as the C1 lynch target these days

Might just be my paranoia speaking but I feel like the fang target elim might try to 'distance' from villagers in overt ways - so as to implicate them after their flip.

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

If we exe an elim today it doesn't matter what we prefer, we won't get a Fang flip.

Would you say that the info gained from exe'ing an elim today would be less preferable to activating the fang?

21 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

My thoughts on the fang: Don't use it day one, but sooner is better than later. The longer we wait, the more likely it is that our Village Elders die, leaving us with no Fang and no elim flip at all

This, basically.

[Mat]

3 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Would you say that the info gained from exe'ing an elim today would be less preferable to activating the fang?

No, a red flip from an exe we choose is better than a red flip that the elims get the choose, as Archer has pointed out. My point is that it doesn’t matter. If we exe an elim today, it doesn’t matter if we activate the Fang or not, it’s the same result. If we misexe today, the Fang gives us a red flip anyway, which is better than no red flip.

[xinoehp512]

5 minutes ago, Archer said:

EDIT: Xino, how strongly do you believe in us having multiple Elders? I'm trying to decide whether or not Kas felt the game would become unbalanced if the solo Elder died C1 to the NK.  

I wouldn't bet on it. I don't think the Dragon Fang is something that's expected to massively help the village; it's just a way to prevent the village from getting a string of bad luck. The idea with having the Fang be tied to the Village Elders is to encourage the Village use the Fang sooner rather than later, probably to give them a chance to discuss what they've learned . With 14 players, I put about 50/50 odds that one Elder is dead by C4, which is LyLo if the village hasn't found an elim yet. With 2 village elders, the chances are probably more like a 1/3 or 1/4th, maybe lower. And again, that's within the window of when the Fang can be used at all.  If the chance is so low, why even bother including the elder mechanic at all? (Unless the point is just to scare us into using it early, maybe?)

Although... Thugs. Hmm. Chances seem decent that the Fang was balanced by giving the elims an extra life. Maybe in that context a 1/2 chance of failure if the fang is saved until the last moment is a bit too much...

Regardless, counting on there being enough Elders to keep the fang alive as long as we need it is a dangerous proposition. 

Chances are that the elims have at least one quieter person on their team. We're going to get the low-info person no matter when we Fang. We might as well take a free shot at a lurker while we have the chance.

[Stick.]

11 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

The idea with having the Fang be tied to the Village Elders is to encourage the Village use the Fang sooner rather than later, probably to give them a chance to discuss what they've learned .

Being nit-picky here but the use of third person pronouns for the village just sounds off  

Do I want to vote on you for this?

edit:

actually I dont like that entire post  The fang isnt meant to massively help the village?? I definitely disagree. Also I think it's extremely unlikely that there's only one Elder - Elder's are just vanilla after the fang is used, so I dont see why we'd only have one.

Xino

@Kasimir cuz I edited in a vote

Edited March 25, 2022 by _Stick_

[JNV]

Kai knew better than most that you can’t outrun the past. You carry it with you, buried in your blood and bone, and there is no outrunning the flesh that sends you forth. It lingers. It lingers in dreams so sharp they could be knives in the dark, in sparks of pain in old wounds long since faded, in instinctual recoiling from light on metal. It lingers in the buried self that is abandoned but never forgotten. Kai knew the past, the oldest of friends, but they still ran. There was a graveyard once, filled with empty coffins slowly filling up, and they ran because there was nothing more they could do. They ran because there was nothing left. They ran because if they hadn’t, the guilt would have eaten them alive. 

They still regretted it.

Kai still ran, still fled the past that could not be escaped. They couldn’t stop. Moving from town to town, staying for days or weeks before slipping away with nothing to show for it but less coin. The family had probably stopped searching for them by now, but they still ran. They were a coward, and they knew it, but they still couldn’t stop.

The Wheel turns, and past becomes present, and sometimes, you can’t keep running.

Kai woke up to see the dream made manifest.

 

Hi by the way I wont be on tomorrow I have an all day thing sorry bout that

4 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

We essentially have two options- activate the Fang right now, or not. We should discuss between the two but not let that topic take over the thread

Using the Fang this cycle is basically the same as voting out an elim turn one and doesnt really give it time to mature. The fang is like fruit it ripens then rots so give it time to ripe na  bit but also keep in mind the elims choose the target so theyve probbaly set up distance schemes already and no matter what the info wont be that enlightening cause they cherrypick it 

50 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Although... Thugs. Hmm. Chances seem decent that the Fang was balanced by giving the elims an extra life. Maybe in that context a 1/2 chance of failure if the fang is saved until the last moment is a bit too much...

From the rule clarifications in the main thread

Quote

• What happens if the Fang targets a Darkfriend Veteran?

Being a veteran does not protect them from the Dragon's Fang. I guess being hated and ostracised by the rest of Helgen is just too powerful

So theres no chance of failure. Elims probably just pick no extra lifer to die then 

On the multi elder thought (sorry lost the quote box somewhere) if the game is well balanced it shouldnt relaly matter if the fang can be done for winning purposes and besides the fang is when we're doomed in the "oh sweet lord we know nothing aaah" sort of category and if we just catch an elim the mechanic is locked anyway so sure maybe multi elder but and honestly probably multi elder just cause I think maybe Kasimir would want the mechanic to happen (cause its really cool by the way) but it shouldnt be assumed just because elder death means no fang. Arent we good enough to find elims without putting teeth on doors? Hopefully at least or finding elims after the fang will be hard. Honestly dont know where Im going with this thought  but basically we dont need the fang and we dont need the elder theres some extra lives so we will be just fine probably hopefully maybe

Its not lik the fang is bad though dont get me wrong its just that its extraneous and maybe a bit helfpul in the beginning but not utlimately the end all be all I support c2 or C3 fang cause if we use it now and we catch an elim then it wont happen and if we dont and it does go off theres just no info happening there but honestly based on the thread thoughts we wont have a majority on that 

Oh by the way pls PM I like PMs but startig them feels scary for some reason

[StrikerEZ]

5 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

@StrikerEZ, when you say you want to see the mechanic used, am I right in thinking your concern is that we'll catch an elim before it goes off?

Not necessarily? I don't think that's guaranteed, but I think it's a possibility. I honestly hadn't thought of this as a reason. My reasoning was more focused on either losing the Elders before we can use it or losing the majority of active players willing to vote for the Fang and not being able to activate it.

Also, Bort.

[Archer]

2 hours ago, JNV said:

 na  bit but also keep in mind the elims choose the target so theyve probbaly set up distance schemes already and no matter what the info wont be that enlightening cause they cherrypick it 

Oh by the way pls PM I like PMs but startig them feels scary for some reason

So if the working assumption is that the fang flip will provide no information, why give them the voting power advantage that comes from delaying? By the way, I see no reason not to advertise our fang votes because the elims can sway it either way outside of serious coordination or village groupthink. I'm voting to fang this round. 

JNV, you have earned one village point for blatantly soliciting PMs instead of PM spidering like a proper evildoer. Why does doing reads feel like I'm distancing? 

I'm willing to bank on the GM making the mechanic foolproof with either e!Elder, Veteran!Elder, or multiple Elders. So we probably have some leeway, but not so much that I'd like to push the fang past C2. 

3 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

No, a red flip from an exe we choose is better than a red flip that the elims get the choose, as Archer has pointed out. My point is that it doesn’t matter. If we exe an elim today, it doesn’t matter if we activate the Fang or not, it’s the same result. If we misexe today, the Fang gives us a red flip anyway, which is better than no red flip.

That's your point, I don't think it was Bort's point. 

[xinoehp512]

It's eight hours in. It's late at night. I've got nothing better to do.

So... Bucket Reads time!

Good Bucket:

Spoiler

Mat

Illwei

Orlok

Bort

JNV

Bad Bucket:

Spoiler

Striker

Stick

TJ

Archer

Thaidakar

Novel*

Aman*

*pending presence

Also, is it a thing that the GM makes vote counts?

[Archer]

6 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Also, is it a thing that the GM makes vote counts?

If you ask nicely, sometimes they drop them when they're catching up on the thread to make sure their notes are correct. What's your read of TJ based on? And Bort? and everyone else, but I figure if you were going to do in depth reads, you'd have done them already 

*

Buffy was busy booby trapping their door to stop people from putting fang symbols on it. They hated fangs. They'd interact with other people later. 

[xinoehp512]

6 minutes ago, Archer said:

If you ask nicely, sometimes they drop them when they're catching up on the thread to make sure their notes are correct. What's your read of TJ based on? And Bort? and everyone else, but I figure if you were going to do in depth reads, you'd have done them already 

*

Buffy was busy booby trapping their door to stop people from putting fang symbols on it. They hated fangs. They'd interact with other people later. 

Well if you ask nicely.

Bort I just felt village vibes from. I'd like to hear more from them though. TJ was aggressive, and that makes me feel suspicious.

[Kasimir]

6 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

Also, is it a thing that the GM makes vote counts?

 

6 hours ago, Archer said:

If you ask nicely, sometimes they drop them when they're catching up on the thread to make sure their notes are correct.

This guy gets it. Given that I can't always be on at the same time as the predominantly North American crowd, going to say that the best help here is self-help  I can't guarantee I can respond to a vote count request in a timely manner.

But since I'm taking this as an implied request, this is what I have right now:

Quote

Bort (2): Archer, Striker
Stick (2): Orlok, TJ
JNV (1): Mat
Mat (1): Araris
TJ (1): Thaid
xino (1): Stick

Votes not in any particular order, I don't offer vote progression analysis services this game I'm afraid

Oh hey guys, sorry I signed on late, but I see you've got discussion started without me anyway! Here's my readslist right now:

Light Village:

Spoiler

• Experience

This guy is putting a lot of effort into analysis in the spec doc. Could be Evil but I'm fine with a C1 effort clear, commit to revise later.

• Devo

IDK about Devo. On one hand I could've sworn I saw her in the Elim doc. At the same time, her sheer dgaf about her specious claims in the spec doc makes me get Village vibes off her.

Null:

Spoiler

• Rae

Hasn't checked in, so can't offer a read.

Null-:

Spoiler

• El

Turning the spec doc into a SE meta discussion ground smh, clearly a Elim trying to derail our one job of trying to find Team Evil!

And that's the best I got, not sorry. But I'm sure you guys will do just fine with me putting in low effort  

[Stick.]

 

9 hours ago, Archer said:

Veteran!Elder

is even possible to have two roles lol

8 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

It's eight hours in. It's late at night. I've got nothing better to do.

So... Bucket Reads time!

Good Bucket:

  Reveal hidden contents

Mat

Illwei

Orlok

Bort

JNV

Bad Bucket:

  Hide contents

Striker

Stick

TJ

Archer

Thaidakar

Novel*

Aman*

*pending presence

Also, is it a thing that the GM makes vote counts?

why do you suspect me? And if I'm correct in assuming the list is ordered, why aren't you voting for me since I'm one of your top suspicions and also happen to be the leading exe?

[Bort]

I'll admit, I'm also kinda curious why @StrikerEZ voted for me.

14 hours ago, Archer said:

What Bort appears to be suggesting is that an elim kill via the exe is worse than the elim kill we'd get from the fang kill. Since the elims get to choose which one of them dies to the fang kill and will have presumably planned accordingly to mislead us from the death, I disagree with this. In theory, the kill they don't anticipate, the one arrived at through analysis that has readable conversations leading up to it, is more valuable to us than the fang death. Our best case scenario is actually that we exe an elim who is different than the one the elims planned on sacrificing. I don't think he's trying to shift focus from the fact that getting a fang kills requires a mix, given his last line, but I do think it's weird that he doesn't like the implications of an elim exe C1. Bringing up the e!Striker exe implies the elims will distance from teammates they expect to survive than from the one they expect to die. I find that unlikely.

This is taking a very extreme view from what I said. Ok, so here's my thoughts...

C1, it's likely a villager will by lynched, unless someone really screws up and reveals themselves, just by weight of numbers. There are more of us than there are of them.

If we activate the Fang today, we guarantee ourselves at least one elim down, even if we do mislynch a villager during the exe. That is, after all, the point of the game, so why not use the mechanic we have to help with that before we lose the chance to?

I think for now, a poke vote on Aman. @Amanuensis?

************************

"Oh, we've got trouble now," 'King' Bortington the Blind said, peering intently from beneath the rim of his horned helmet. The subject of his study was no more than an inch away from his nose, a scrawled mark on someone's door.

Luna looked a little shocked by this. Had the senile old fool managed to get something right? "You're...right." The Beardspren couldn't quite keep the surprise out of her voice, and whipped off through the air like a wisp of beard hair on the breeze, following Bortington as he headed back for the longhouse.

He barged open the door and cried out, "Danger! Trouble and murder!"

The vikings around the hall paused, looked at him in silence for a moment. Then they all cheered, axes and swords seemingly magically in hand.

"There's a mark, on a door down the way," Bortington explained, describing the curved pointed style of the Tashikki Brotherhood, who could be easily identified by their reliance on beard wax to make stabbing points. "Their hugs are most lethal! Do NOT accept one!" He warned 'his' warriors. "Now get out there, and arrest everyone with a suspiciously pointy beard. Go! Go!"

As the vikings streamed out of the longhouse to go and detain all the possible members of the Tashikki Brotherhood, Luna sat on Bortington's shoulder mutely shaking her head.

[|TJ|]

18 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

@|TJ|, having sat on the other side of that, the early loss of Striker did cause Kas and I to panic, predominately about its impact on LyLo - much easier to get two of three players into the final three with a bus than two (or in our case, having to distance and pocket). Not sure the experience is directly applicable this game, but did want to address it for the record. (On reflection, I think this is further evidence for a four eliminator team - I don't think Kas would want to put anyone else through a guarantee of that stress, even if it were balanceable).

Yeah, I take this more as an argument for 4-player elim team than to Fang D1. Elims do tend to freak out and overestimate the village's ability to catch them, and as you recall, you won the game following a D1 elim flip, so point in my favor? 

17 hours ago, Archer said:

I think the only way the Fang mechanic will really hurt the elim team is if somehow someone they didn't expect to be exed gets pressured and they have to Fang that person instead, which leaves the originally planned target exposed for having had weird posts to that point. Otherwise, I'd pick a designated sacrifice and instruct them to be as confusing or low-info as possible, expecting them to flip within the first three cycles.

Something feels off about this, but I don't know what :P. I think there's too much elim strategizing here, that it looks like it's from an elim perspective?

17 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

This is a weird vote, since Bort wasn't suggesting we forgo an exe to activate the Fang. The Fang comes after execution, and its placement in the OoA disincentivizes messing with the exe to begin with. If we exe an elim today it doesn't matter what we prefer, we won't get a Fang flip.

Agreed. JNV has posted, so where'd your next vote go?

16 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

What if I'm actually just observant *cries*

Sorry, that inquisition looks performative :P. Also, what is it that you actually observed? Like, what was the point to the question? 

11 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

 TJ was aggressive, and that makes me feel suspicious.

Define 'aggressive' :P. Because I definitely planned to play this game concisely , so 'direct' would be a better description (I'm in a tv-binge trap right now, which is draining my time, hence the plan to play in a concise way :P). Also, if aggressive, why is it elim-alignment indicative?

16 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

16 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

The idea with having the Fang be tied to the Village Elders is to encourage the Village use the Fang sooner rather than later, probably to give them a chance to discuss what they've learned .

Being nit-picky here but the use of third person pronouns for the village just sounds off  

@xinoehp512, did you reply to this anywhere?I just glanced through this assuming they/them meant village Elders specifically, but on second look, that doesn't make sense and it does look like you're mentioning the village in third person. 

[Stick.]

19 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Sorry, that inquisition looks performative :P. Also, what is it that you actually observed? Like, what was the point to the question? 

I never said I observed anything - those were your words  The point of the question was to get an answer out of you  As elims, people just tend to just say things sometimes with no real thought/justification behind them so asking people to expand on/clarify their thoughts is always a good village strat imo. Also offers opportunities to develop/refine reads. 

[xinoehp512]

 

4 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

why do you suspect me? And if I'm correct in assuming the list is ordered, why aren't you voting for me since I'm one of your top suspicions and also happen to be the leading exe?

Just felt evil vibes off of you. And you are incorrect in assuming the list is ordered. I take a look at a name and throw it in either the good bucket or the bad bucket depending on how I feel.

16 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

actually I dont like that entire post  The fang isnt meant to massively help the village?? I definitely disagree. Also I think it's extremely unlikely that there's only one Elder - Elder's are just vanilla after the fang is used, so I dont see why we'd only have one.

Not sure if I understand what you're saying. Why does it matter if the Elders are vanilla after the Fang is used? The point is, having multiple elders makes the chances that they all die before either a single elim dies or the game ends low. Which Kas might have done if he didn't actually want the village to lose the fang, just feel like they might, but we can't count on that.

28 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Define 'aggressive' :P. Because I definitely planned to play this game concisely , so 'direct' would be a better description (I'm in a tv-binge trap right now, which is draining my time, hence the plan to play in a concise way :P). Also, if aggressive, why is it elim-alignment indicative?

Being quick to accuse.  Although, looking back, it seems I misread your comments to Striker so the only person you really accused was Stick. I don't think that counts as aggressive, so you've been promoted to the Good Bucket.

As for why aggressiveness is an elim indicator- .if you accuse others, other people are less likely to trust them, especially if you do it with confidence.

28 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

@xinoehp512, did you reply to this anywhere?I just glanced through this assuming they/them meant village Elders specifically, but on second look, that doesn't make sense and it does look like you're mentioning the village in third person. 

Yep, that's what that means. I was talking from a meta perspective.

4 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

why aren't you voting for me

Edit: I was also waiting for the vote count. Too sleepy to count them myself.  I'd rather have you leading the vote than Bort. Stick. @Kasimir for edited vote.

Edited March 26, 2022 by xinoehp512

[Stick.]

33 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

I take a look at a name and throw it in either the good bucket or the bad bucket depending on how I feel.

I would have assumed this was the case had your list been in the order of the playerlist or the order of posts this cycle. But it seems arbitrary so I assumed it was in order of strongest reads to weakest, hence Novel and Aman at the very end. And why did you omit Araris from the list when you've made sure to include everyone else, even the nonposters?

29 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Just felt evil vibes off of you.

can you give me a specific reason?

edit:

29 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Being quick to accuse.  Although, looking back, it seems I misread your comments to Striker so the only person you really accused was Stick. I don't think that counts as aggressive, so you've been promoted to the Good Bucket.

As for why aggressiveness is an elim indicator- .if you accuse others, other people are less likely to trust them, especially if you do it with confidence.

If this was your line of thought, why'd you include all three of us in the sus list? If you thought e!TJ was accusing me and Striker in order to make people not trust us, shouldn't this mean you're committing to TJ/Striker and TJ/me being not e/e?

Edited March 26, 2022 by _Stick_