Mid-Range Game 57: Helvegen

[Kasimir]

16 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Reminder: Under two days to kick-off! The game starts at 0100hrs (GMT+8) on Saturday, 26th March!

Sorry, I haven't GMed in quite a few months and the rust shows

To anyone who is still on the fence: you have until 0030hrs (GMT+8) on Saturday, 26th March to make up your mind  The game will start at 0100hrs, as promptly as I can manage this, with future rollovers to take place at 0100hrs as well.

I have just remembered that unlike Wyrm'alor, I am not a god and thus cannot deal with a sign-up at 0059hrs and somehow still get the game up and running at 0100hrs, RIP me >>

[Kasimir]

Under an hour left to the close of sign-ups! Will edit the final cut-off to not triple-post  

Edited to add: And sign-ups are closed! Thread will be up by 0100hrs, and you should expect to receive role PMs by then.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Kasimir

[Kasimir]

Cycle One: A Fell Wind

The watcher came, a few months ago, with the fog.

He wandered into Helgen, his broad-brimmed hat pulled down so it shaded his pale grey eyes. Of all things, he carried with him a worn ash quarterstaff with strange scratchings along the haft, and wore a notched sword-breaker at his side.

The fog was unusual; it came in with the dusk, and crept through the streets of Helgen, prowling down cobblestones and tendrils of it slipped into houses with a feral curiosity. 

The watcher went down the street, and crossed it, and ducked under the dangling sign and entered the Tree. As he opened the door to the inn, Wyden looked up, and for a moment, all he saw was a dark figure, silhouetted in curling wisps of fog, and shivered.

The moment passed, and then the traveller stepped into the inn, trailing a cloak of fog after. 

The conversation stilled as his regulars took in the sight. Helgen was small enough that every traveller was remarked on, even if visitors weren’t uncommon. There was a travelling peddler that came every few months, and most of Helgen looked forward to his visit, and to the news he brought from the other villages and towns.

“Nasty weather,” Wyden said, cleaning spilled mead from the counter. “Wouldn’t like to be out in it.”

The corner of the wanderer’s mouth canted in amusement. “I’ve seen worse,” he replied. Calm voice, that. The sort you could imagine talking to spooked horses, or telling patrons at an inn not to do anything stupid. Wyden had heard men like him before, back when—back on the Blightborder. Commanders liked men like these; liked to have at least one fellow you knew wouldn’t spook when a fell wind rose from the Blight, and things…happened.

Funny how much you got off a man from how he stood, how he held himself, how he talked. 

He scrubbed at the counter furiously.

“Looking for a drink? Room for the night?”

“Just the room will do,” said the wanderer, paying up in Shienaran silver. Wasn’t Shienaran though, Wyden would’ve known the accent, and he didn’t favour the warrior’s topknot. As it was, he couldn’t place the man’s accent. “Suppose you might know where someone could stay for a time?”

This time, Wyden was certain his eyebrows were about to nestle in his hair. “Stay?” he repeated, incredulously. But that was what old Gader had told him, hadn’t he? Years ago, when Wyden had wandered into Helgen himself, seeking shelter from the storm, seeking…

He forced himself to count the list of things that needed to be done, the string of never-ending tasks that kept the Tree in working order, that kept Wyden moving from one step to the next, putting one foot in front of the other when the bleakness threatened to overwhelm him.

Months later, Wyden had taken over the Tree, and Gader had gone to the last embrace of the mother. And the Wheel turned. And the Wheel turned.

“Kaim,” said the man, with a smile that reached his almost colourless eyes, the sort that Wyden could see persuading others to lower their guard. “Thief-taker. Was retired, but you know how it is. There’s always one last hunt.”

“Won’t find thieves here,” Wyden said. Did he know? Was he one of them? “Barely hear a branch break in this village without half the village knowing about it.”

Kaim shrugged. “So it might be,” he agreed, peaceably. “But the quarry I’m hunting is truly dangerous. Murdered most of a garrison at the Blightborder, and then deserted. Village was overrun by Shadowspawn soon after.”

Wyden looked him in the eye. “Happy hunting,” he said, evenly. Counted the number of leaks in the attic roof—he’d made a mental note of all five of them, it’d take the better part of an afternoon to patch them all but it had to be done. “There’s a hunter’s cabin. Abandoned now. Slart used to live there, but…” he shrugged. Wasn’t about to volunteer that tale to the stranger. No one knew why he’d done it. Only that it’d taken three of them to restrain Slart once the killing’d started. A fell wind, some of the elders said. Wyden wasn’t so sure. Didn’t see how winds made a man kill others in cruel ways. “If you don’t mind old ghosts and some elbow grease, should get it liveable again. Stern can show you where it is.” He nodded to the woodsman sitting alone at the table off to the side, back to the wall of the inn. Wise man. Didn’t live long, being stupid.

“Ghosts don’t scare me,” Kaim nodded, his eyes flicking over to where Stern sat and ate. “Thank you.”

Wyden bet.

Oh, he’d bet.

Took a special kind of man, didn’t it?

Either the Light loved you, or there wasn’t a soul in you, if you didn’t see the ghosts of the men you’d killed and damned when you tried to sleep at night, if you didn’t hear their screams.

He counted the coins that Kaim paid, and tucked them away, and moved on. Always the next task.

 

 

Whispers and rumours about Gamen’s murder spread through Helgen like fire rising in dry grass. The soldier—apparently his name was Hagen Edler—had taken charge of the body, which was just as well, because Wyden felt sick with terror and guilt, as though he’d killed Gamen, even though he hadn’t, and because it was a hell of a way to die, and he’d known that.

He rubbed at the scars manacling his wrists and forearms. Blood and bloody ashes. He wasn’t sure if he wanted a sword more, or if he wanted a long, hot bath. He’d taken at least ten of them a day, the first week. Felt as though he would never be clean again.

Mayor Wilsa showed up to take a look at the scrawlings on the stable wall. By that point, village folk had begun to gather and whisper. Wyden found himself sitting to the side, running through lists in his head. Lists and lists. Tasks.

You kept stumbling on, one foot in front of the other, always. Because you had to. Because if you didn’t, if you stopped…

“Fell wind from the Blight,” spat Rambler. Far as Wyden could tell, Rambler was always angry. “What the hell else kills like that?”

Gaeta, the Cairhienin scholar, was kneeling beside the body, and studying it. It. Him. Strange how easily the mind discarded the person; how he’d already begun to internalise that Gamen was dead, would never pay his tab, was nothing more than meat for the ravens now. Food for the worms.

Wyden shivered at that thought.

“I wouldn’t say that,” she said, in that clipped accent.

“What then?” Rambler demanded.

“Helgen is too far from the Blight,” Gaeta said, simply. “It would be…strange for the corruption or the taint to be felt here.”

Wyden glanced at her sharply. He didn’t like the way she spoke; the way it sounded almost knowing, as though there was something Gaeta wasn’t saying. But then, there was a connection between her and Edler. He’d known that at the time. He’d seen it from how acutely conscious of each other they were, and yet how they’d taken great pains to seem unconnected. Sometimes you tried too hard. He’d always been good at watching people.

None of his business, but they’d killed one of his regulars, and vandalised his stables and suddenly, everything felt like it was his business.

“Fell things happening lately,” Lorum Ipsum spoke up. He was so quiet, you didn’t always know he was there. “Zelphia tended to some of Tema’s flock last night. One of her goats sickened and died. Daian’s garden was blighted. I saw it myself. It’s an ill wind from the Blight, and it bodes nothing good, mark my words.”

“Kaim heard ravens calling at dusk.” That was Alain Stern, who ranged far into the woods, and watched his words as though they were coin.

“Light,” muttered Stieg. “Light shelter us.”

Everything seemed out of joint, out of place, as though someone had borrowed the world and put it back all crooked, without bothering to tidy up after them. He’d heard the raven, too. Had seen it. Seemed preposterous in the light of day, now, but Wyden knew it as surely as he knew his sword forms. 

“Darkfriends,” Mayor Wilsa pronounced. “They call the Dark One the ‘Great Lord’, don’t they? Gamen’s death was some sort of depraved sacrifice.” She looked at all the folk of Helgen, gathered to gawk and mutter at the spectacle of one of their own, impossibly slain.

“I think,” Edler said, gravely, “The Shadow has turned its gaze on Helgen.”

“The Dark One and all of the Forsaken are bound in Shayol Ghul, beyond the Great Blight, bound by the Creator at the moment of Creation, bound until the end of time,” Stieg said, glaring daggers at Edler, reciting the old catechism, the phrases you learned as a child, when the ravens called, when the shadows gathered. “The hand of the Creator shelters the world, and the Light shines on us all."

“Does it?” Edler asked, his voice like the quiet Watered Silk, the unexpected riposte to a Boar Rushes Down The Mountain. “Winds don’t kill people. Men do. Men who have sworn their souls to the Shadow.”

“Killings began after you came,” Rambler spat. “You and that scholar. Funny isn’t it?”

Edler met his furious gaze with eyes of ice. He pulled back his cloak, the colours of it fading and seeming to shift with each movement, to reveal a sword sheathed at his side. “I fought on the Blightborder,” he said, each word coming with quiet assurance. “If I kill, I kill with the sword. I have no need of the O—of tricks.”

Rambler stood his ground. “Haven’t been killings like this. Until you and that scholar of yours came!”

Funny how he’d completely ignored Kaim, Wyden found himself thinking. A few months later, and Kaim hadn’t seemed to have found his murderer, had settled into the backdrop of Helgen with little further comment. How did he do that?

“Try me,” Edler replied. “Or you can ask that innkeeper of yours. He knows his sword forms as well as I do.”

Which was absolutely the last thing Wyden wanted or needed, right here and right now, as over a dozen pairs of eyes turned to him, searchingly, and in the case of Eaton Strikk, looking distinctly murderous.

“Enough!”

This was Mayor Wilsa, shouting, and Wyden felt an absurd sense of relief and gratitude to her for the save. “We are not going to do anything foolish. There were words daubed on Wyden’s stables. This means it was deliberate.” This was the Mayor whose impassioned words had restored calm, those months ago when Slart had killed that family. “This means that there are some in Helgen who serve the Shadow. Darkfriends.”

Shouting. No one could believe it. Not in Helgen. Not somewhere quiet, not where you knew everyone, had grown up in Helgen all your life.

Not Wyden, though. For all they’d accepted him, he was the stranger who’d taken over Gader’s inn. Maybe they would turn on him, in the end.

Mayor Wilsa was shouting over the clamour, appealing for calm, for cooler heads to prevail. Wyden wasn’t sure he wanted to stick around to hear all of it.

Sick to his stomach, he stood up. He needed a walk. Clear his head. Maybe he wouldn’t itch with the need to take a bath. Maybe he’d stop worrying at the scars. Could work them open again, even after all those years.

He left.

He didn’t know where he was going, in particular. But he was putting one foot in front of the other, which meant he was carrying on. That was something. That had to be enough.

 

 

You walked, and you kept walking.

Sometimes it cleared your head. But you had to go back, eventually, and then you found that your troubles hadn’t gone away, that the piper was waiting to be paid, that the ravens were still perched on your rafters.

Wyden felt anger tight in his throat as he returned to find the Dragon’s Fang scrawled on the door of the Tree. Anger, mingled with shame and betrayal. They’d eaten his food, drunk his mead, he’d helped them sometimes, pitching in with the odd repairs, had laughed with them, joked with them, and when the cards were dealt and the dice came clattering to a halt, he wasn’t one of them after all.

The Dragon’s Fang leered at him, both condemnation and threat at once.

It was Gader’s inn, the Tree, but it’d been a labour of love, and over the long passage of the slow years, Wyden had come to love her as though she was his own. The Fang, scrawled with hatred, was like the cold shock of a sudden sharp knife to the back. Or five.

“Need a hand?”

Wyden started, and turned about, belatedly realising that if he’d still carried a sword, his body remembered, had begun to position itself for a swift Apple Blossoms In The Wind. The body kept the score. The body remembered. It always did.

Kaim raised an eyebrow. “Jumpy?” He gazed at the Dragon’s Fang on the inn door and shook his head. “Ah. I’d heard.”

“That I killed Gamen?”

The thief-taker’s stern eyes flicked to him, searchingly. Sort of eyes that made you feel as though he was peering into your soul, weighing the stains on it. He’d carried enough misdeeds that sometimes it felt as though they were stones against his chest. Even after all these years.

“Did you?”

Wyden shook his head tiredly. “Of course not,” he snapped. “Light, I can’t kill a man—”

“—thorns through his skin,” finished Kaim. “I’d heard. Nasty business, that.” Wyden was certain that Kaim saw him rubbing at his wrists again. “Aes Sedai work, though I’d hate to see the one who’d whip that out lightly.”

“You’ve seen this?” Wyden demanded, and hoped to the Light that Kaim hadn’t noticed his voice crack.

The thief-taker shrugged. “I’ve seen many things,” he said simply. “In this line of work, nothing surprises you, after a while. Suspicion, greed, hatred, betrayal…all the darker sides of human nature, when we allow our worst tendencies to shape how we act, how we treat others. Business partners murdering each other, childkillers, thieves, torturers…” His eyes were distant, now. “Yes,” he said, after a pause. “I’ve seen this used by an Aes Sedai. I believe she called it the Embrace of Pain.” His mouth pressed into a tight, unhappy line. “A terrible thing, torture. The man died soon after. I think he considered it a mercy.”

Wyden was certain that Kaim had seen him rubbing at his arms, and he focused on the thought of the stables, on the rage he’d felt on seeing the Dragon’s Fang starkly scrawled on the door to the Tree. Anything but the hooked memory of thorns. Still sharp, even now, sharp enough to cut. Sharp enough to dig in under his skin.

“It takes a strong man,” Kaim said. “To hold out under that sort of torture. Don’t you agree?”

Wyden looked away.

He didn’t want to remember.

“Come,” Kaim said. “Let me help you get that off your inn door. And you should go and make a cup of tea. You look at the edge of your rope.”

“Why?” Wyden croaked. It was the only thing he could seem to ask. Unexpected kindness unsought after, it seemed, was as staggering as sudden betrayal.

Kaim studied him impassively. “Everyone has bad days,” he said, eventually. “And I don’t believe you killed Gamen.”

“Then who did?”

Hadn’t meant to say that. Wyden supposed that once he wouldn’t have cared. But now that he was taking the blame for it, it felt personal. It felt as though it mattered.

Kaim shrugged. “We’ll find out, I suppose. One thing at a time. Hunting down a murderer requires both patience and the ability to ask the right questions.” 

One step after another.

Wyden supposed he could agree with that.

 

 

The cycle has begun and will end on Monday, 28th March 2022 at 0100hrs SGT (GMT+8)! All role PMs should be sent by now. Please alert me if you have not received your role PMs. Please be reminded that PMs are open and to include the GM and IM in all PMs!

At this point in time, the current threshold required for a successful Fang is seven players!

P.S. For players who haven't been GMed by me before, please don't post until I've reserved the second post in this thread for the player list and rule clarifications. Thank you!

Edited March 26, 2022 by Kasimir

[Kasimir]

Rule Clarifications:

Spoiler

• Can we use the Fang after executing a Elim?

No, Elim die, Fang go bye bye.

• Does the Fang come first or the exe?

Fang follows exe.

• Can a Veteran survive an exe?

Yes. 'Kill' was not meant to specifically only refer to NK - a Veteran is essentially a Tyrian Thug.

• Can we go for a no execution?

No. If you refuse to execute anyone, I will execute someone with extreme prejudice. (There is no vote minimum, therefore if no one votes, RNGesus will decide who dies.)

• Can a player have two roles?

No.

Player List:

Spoiler

1. @Thaidakar the Ghostblood - Daian
2. @The Unknown Novel - Lorum Ipsum, actually Lorumis Ipsimir
3. @xinoehp512
4. @Matrim's Dice - Rambler, disturbed fellow
5. @Orlok Tsubodai - Locke
6. @Amanuensis - Lin Mindrigurin, elderly veteran sometimes mistaken for Lan
7. @Araris Valerian - Alain Stern, hardy woodsman
8. @Illwei
9. @Archer - Buffy, who has an intense fear of fangs
10. @JNV - Kai
11. @StrikerEZ - Eaton Strikk, a guy with a headache and worryingly murderous tendencies
12. @_Stick_
13. @Bort - Bortington the Blind
14. @|TJ| - Jóhannsson, local composer

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Kasimir
Reserved successfully; you may post now.

[Mat]

We essentially have two options- activate the Fang right now, or not. We should discuss between the two but not let that topic take over the thread

There’s also the option of not choosing anything and just seeing what happens  I think personally I lean towards activating it sooner rather than later but I don’t really care as long as it happens :P. With 14 players I think the team could have three or four, leaning four because of the Fang but idk 

JNV

[StrikerEZ]

Definitely think team has four.

Also I say we do it now.

Also sorry if I don’t talk much. Very sick.

[|TJ|]

9 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Also I say we do it now.

Why? We've seen it as evidentially recently that a C1 elim-elimination is actually detrimental to the village forming connections and noting interactions between the elim team members, and if not careful, could lead to a loss without another elim being found. 

Oh, also, I'd be looking at deliberately fake confrontational interactions to throw us off the scent if we do Fang an elim later in the game. 

[StrikerEZ]

4 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Why? We've seen it as evidentially recently that a C1 elim-elimination is actually detrimental to the village forming connections and noting interactions between the elim team members, and if not careful, could lead to a loss without another elim being found. 

Oh, also, I'd be looking at deliberately fake confrontational interactions to throw us off the scent if we do Fang an elim later in the game. 

I want to see the mechanic actually get used. And we have the most villagers alive right now compared to any later point in the game. So may as well use it.

[Mat]

7 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Why? We've seen it as evidentially recently that a C1 elim-elimination is actually detrimental to the village forming connections and noting interactions between the elim team members, and if not careful, could lead to a loss without another elim being found. 

Oh, also, I'd be looking at deliberately fake confrontational interactions to throw us off the scent if we do Fang an elim later in the game. 

That last part is kind of why I’m leaning towards sooner rather than later. I don’t want to have to deal with the IKYKs involved with the elims being able to choose who is Fanged and if we do it now they have less time to mess with anything. It’s definitely possible to come to conclusions off a late game Fang flip but also pretty risky.

I do like the option of waiting until two elims are dead to activate the Fang, with the caveat that we could do it sooner if we keep misexing :P. Again, I don’t really care.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[|TJ|]

1 minute ago, StrikerEZ said:

I want to see the mechanic actually get used. And we have the most villagers alive right now compared to any later point in the game. So may as well use it.

You mean, like you'd want to use it before we catch an elim by our vote? The difference is they control that kill, they get to direct the narrative and discussion after the Fang-death, as compared to being able to discern more by vote analysis if we catch an elim via the vote. 

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

That last part is kind of why I’m leaning towards sooner rather than later. I don’t want to have to deal with the IKYKs involved with the elims being able to choose who is Fanged and if we do it now they have less time to mess with anything. It’s definitely possible to come to conclusions off a late game Fang flip but also pretty risky.

I was thinking more like - not later than C3. If they are 4 in number, it's 10-4, their wincon is outnumber so they need 7 consecutive kills. Pure village C1-C2 makes it 6-4 at the end of C2. If there's another ML + E.Kill + Fang Kill, it's 4-3 at the end of C3.... which yeah, no that's cutting it too close. So I'm leaning towards Fanging in C2 now. 

8 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I do like the option of waiting until two elims are dead to activate the Fang, with the caveat that we could do it sooner if we keep misexing :P. Again, I don’t really care.

Yeaahh no, Fanging becomes inactive when we vote out an elim first  Not sure how to feel how this rule miss, Mat's a stickler reading the rules :P. 

[Kasimir]

9 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I do like the option of waiting until two elims are dead to activate the Fang, with the caveat that we could do it sooner if we keep misexing :P. Again, I don’t really care.

Bro.

Elim die Fang go bye bye

Fang only exists as long as: A. no Elim has yet been killed, and B. at least one Elder exists.

This is neither confirmation nor denial that there are Elders in this game.

Pray I gave you all at least one :eyes:

[---]

Wow I'm still tired

44 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

We essentially have two options- activate the Fang right now, or not. We should discuss between the two but not let that topic take over the thread

Hi, first gonna say that the Fang shouldn't be activated in the first cycle Imo. Don't want to wait too long before everyone's dead, but definitely more of a C2/3 thing, after we havve some interactions noted that we can use.

Elims have good incentive to relentlessly distance in this game, keep that in mind when deciding what you think is e/e or e/v in your mind.

Waiting for something like two elims dead" actually makes it harder in my opinion, if there's just two elims left then, assuming a team of 4. that means that there are two elims scheming in the doc and only one in thread which puts us at a disadvantage imo. any way we do it can be seen as a disadvantage but specifically at 1 elim, depending on who the Elim is to live the longest, could be a lot harder to catch with someone else to help them monitor interactions and whatnot. going by how our own interaction maps or whatnot are doing is a better idea imo.

edit:

lol ok disregard last paracgraph i used the wrong argument i shoulda said "haha no fang after elim death" lol

Edited March 25, 2022 by Illwei

[Stick.]

I thought this game was due to start tomorrow. This what I get for only bothering to register the date/day and not the time ( ͡° ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ͡°)

21 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Oh, also, I'd be looking at deliberately fake confrontational interactions to throw us off the scent if we do Fang an elim later in the game.

why specifically later?

edit: so many ninjas lol

15 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I do like the option of waiting until two elims are dead to activate the Fang, with the caveat that we could do it sooner if we keep misexing

mild vill read for the misunderstanding of rules? could be performative, so only tentative

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by _Stick_

[---]

I will say that now I'm thinking about it, using the fang now would be useful in the way that the elims wouldn't have to distance as hard, which would make them harder /easier to find depending. and they'd be down one. so that's something to think on as well.

[|TJ|]

1 minute ago, _Stick_ said:

why specifically later?

Okay so this is going to get IKYK-y because it's predicting elim behaviour, but if the common thread opinion is to Fang during C1, less elim-elim interactions would mean less links and connections to each other (for e.g. it'd look really weird and obvious if there's distancing attempts in C1 followed by C1 Fang-death of one of the distancing parties). If the common thread opinion is to Fang at a later stage of the game, distancing can be a little more... natural and progressive, which is what I meant when I said distancing is more likely if we decide to Fang later in the game. 

[Stick.]

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

the elims wouldn't have to distance as hard, which would make them harder /easier to find depending

If they know we're all going for it today, they could simply have their target for the fang be minimally active for this one turn since they'd ideally want this to be a low-info flip. I think the least I'm willing to wait before using it is till C2.

[StrikerEZ]

6 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I will say that now I'm thinking about it, using the fang now would be useful in the way that the elims wouldn't have to distance as hard, which would make them harder /easier to find depending. and they'd be down one. so that's something to think on as well.

this is basically what I have been thinking for doing the fang early

hmmm

Illwei and I agreeing at the start of a game? more likely than you would think.

[---]

The question is honestly just this

 

 - start the game over again with one less elim 

 - go into c3 or 4 with extreme distancing wolves

[|TJ|]

2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

- start the game over again with one less elim 

 - go into c3 or 4 with extreme distancing wolves

what's the disadvantage with option b? :P. disregarding the fact the predicting distancing might cause elims to alter strategy, they have to choose two paths in distancing strategy - 

a. choose one person to distance from and choose him for death during the fang cycle (basically LG74 evil team with Maill)

b. create a distance web where each elim team member distance from another and then choose the most suspicious one to die during the Fang cycle

Option a is advantageous because such a strategy will be obvious to look back on and find out bus-behaviour. Option b is advantageous because once there's been a Fang-kill, elim team members cannot back down from the distancing suspicion on their teammates lest it becomes obvious. 

[Mat]

20 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Yeaahh no, Fanging becomes inactive when we vote out an elim first  Not sure how to feel how this rule miss, Mat's a stickler reading the rules :P. 

Oh. Well, that changes my mind slightly :P.

There's no reason not to just activate it now, then. We shouldn't put it off based on the assumption that we'll miskill today, that was Archer during the QF and we got Striker. And Striker's right in that it'd be best to see it used. Think about if we put it off until tomorrow, but exe an elim today- we miss out on a red flip. In theory. I don't remember how the Fang fits into the OoA, I'll go check that since clearly I don't remember the rules from when I read them over a week ago >> (Basically, Kas, don't feel the need to clarify right here I'll figure it out). If the Fang happens before execution we absolutely should do it today, if it happens after execution we still probably should but it matters less.

9 minutes ago, Illwei said:

- start the game over again with one less elim 

- go into c3 or 4 with extreme distancing wolves

I pick the first option

The second one is theoretical and involves IKYKs

[Kasimir]

6 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I don't remember how the Fang fits into the OoA

After the execution. You're welcome.

What are rules guys  

[|TJ|]

Also, Stick. I think it's elim-indicative for Stick when she notices/requests clarifications about small stuff, it's in order to appear very observant.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

28 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Why? We've seen it as evidentially recently that a C1 elim-elimination is actually detrimental to the village forming connections and noting interactions between the elim team members, and if not careful, could lead to a loss without another elim being found. 

Oh, also, I'd be looking at deliberately fake confrontational interactions to throw us off the scent if we do Fang an elim later in the game. 

@|TJ|, having sat on the other side of that, the early loss of Striker did cause Kas and I to panic, predominately about its impact on LyLo - much easier to get two of three players into the final three with a bus than two (or in our case, having to distance and pocket). Not sure the experience is directly applicable this game, but did want to address it for the record. (On reflection, I think this is further evidence for a four eliminator team - I don't think Kas would want to put anyone else through a guarantee of that stress, even if it were balanceable).

21 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

That last part is kind of why I’m leaning towards sooner rather than later. I don’t want to have to deal with the IKYKs involved with the elims being able to choose who is Fanged and if we do it now they have less time to mess with anything. It’s definitely possible to come to conclusions off a late game Fang flip but also pretty risky.

I do like the option of waiting until two elims are dead to activate the Fang, with the caveat that we could do it sooner if we keep misexing :P. Again, I don’t really care.

Very much minded to agree with @_Stick_ that this misreading of the rules is more likely to come from a villager. Tentatively suspicious of Stick for how much she's downplaying it.

9 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Wow I'm still tired

Hi, first gonna say that the Fang shouldn't be activated in the first cycle Imo. Don't want to wait too long before everyone's dead, but definitely more of a C2/3 thing, after we havve some interactions noted that we can use.

Elims have good incentive to relentlessly distance in this game, keep that in mind when deciding what you think is e/e or e/v in your mind.

Waiting for something like two elims dead" actually makes it harder in my opinion, if there's just two elims left then, assuming a team of 4. that means that there are two elims scheming in the doc and only one in thread which puts us at a disadvantage imo. any way we do it can be seen as a disadvantage but specifically at 1 elim, depending on who the Elim is to live the longest, could be a lot harder to catch with someone else to help them monitor interactions and whatnot. going by how our own interaction maps or whatnot are doing is a better idea imo.

edit:

lol ok disregard last paracgraph i used the wrong argument i shoulda said "haha no fang after elim death" lol

Minded to say v!Illwei for the same misinterpretation. 

On the use of the fang, I think there are three options:

1) Using the fang on an early cycle (C1/2) guarantees that the fang will go off, but provides potentially very limited information as a result. 

2) A mid-cycle use gives us much more to analyse. Somewhat obviously, but it isn't just connections between the fanged elim we can look at - who is chosen gives us at least as much, both on implied activity of the team, and knowing what the eliminators want us to conclude.

3) Saving the fang for near LyLo, making elim coordination much more difficult/potentially game throwing. I don't think this is necessarily C3, although we can potentially reach 6-4 by then, given veterans.

I think it's a fairly safe assumption that the fang will go off if we want it to. @StrikerEZ, when you say you want to see the mechanic used, am I right in thinking your concern is that we'll catch an elim before it goes off?

My own preference is pretty firmly against a D1 fang - I think we throw away a lot of potential information, and a lot of uncertainty for the eliminator team if we use it today.

[Kasimir]

2 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

(On reflection, I think this is further evidence for a four eliminator team - I don't think Kas would want to put anyone else through a guarantee of that stress, even if it were balanceable).

Will wonders never cease; Orlok thinks I have a heart?  

Alright, I'll stop heckling you lot, happy grinching/Fanging...

[Bort]

I'm sat on a bus right now typing on my phone so rp will have to wait for now. I'll decide who I want to lynch later too. 

On the subject of the Dragon's Fang, out of the options presented, I'd rather see it used sooner rather than later, just so we don't lose it by accidentally lynching a darkfriend on day 1, like Striker in the last game.

Could it even be worth not lynching someone this cycle to make sure it works? Would that even work? @Kasimir?