WhyNot864

Hunch on why ancient Radiants broke their oaths

8 posts in this topic

Something struck me while reading Chapter 112: Terms from RoW. In it, Odium says:

"Why would I want to destroy you? I am your god, Dalinar." ... "I need soldiers. For the true battle that is coming, not for one people or one miserable windswept continent." ... "Roshar is a training ground. The time will come that I unleash you upon the others who are not nearly as well trained."

This is just a hunch, connecting two seemingly unrelated events. What if the ancient Radiants learned that for Odium's real plans beyond Roshar (as he described them in the quote above to Dalinor), it doesn't really matter who wins the war. Singers or Radiants, Odium plans that whoever is left over will be his, and they will be the strongest, able to spread his control over the entire Cosmere. So the ancient Radiants and their spren decided the best path forward would be to rob Odium of the best tools he would have: themselves. That way, when Odium finally won the planet, he would have weaker people, unable to spread his control as quickly or thoroughly across the Cosmere as Odium planned.

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Interesting idea. Not sure if I agree or not, but it does make me wonder just how much Odium us behind how Vorinism glorifies war.

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Makes sense as being at least partially why they did it, and could be the main reason. They certainly realised they were becoming too powerful and their actions could have unintended consequences - fearing that power may serve Odium, and the damage they could do under him, would be a valid reason for both humans and spren to try to end the Orders forever.

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I'm still hoping it's something more surprising, and creepy, that spooked them. But this theory does sound plausible. 

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On 3/9/2022 at 11:30 AM, Crucible of Shards said:

Interesting idea. Not sure if I agree or not, but it does make me wonder just how much Odium us behind how Vorinism glorifies war.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the unmade are still around between desolations, just less active and without their connection to Odium.  4500 years (with whatever % of those being during active desolations and under the direction of Odium) is certainly enough time for Nergaoul to have galvanized pretty much the whole planet to be more warlike than normal imo.

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3 minutes ago, Anomander Rake said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the unmade are still around between desolations, just less active and without their connection to Odium.  4500 years (with whatever % of those being during active desolations and under the direction of Odium) is certainly enough time for Nergaoul to have galvanized pretty much the whole planet to be more warlike than normal imo.

Good point, but I was thinking more along the lines of human agents of Odium actively influencing Vorin doctrine.

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This is a plausible theory. Combined with Maya's revelation in the climax of Rhythm of War, I could see the old Radiants following this train of thought. I've always thought that Odium had a heavy influence on Alethi culture, especially with the help of the Thrill. Odium manipulated Dalinar in his youth and almost got Dalinar to be his champion. I think that the old Radiants were worried that Odium would be able to manipulate them in a similar way, and so broke their oaths out of fear of themselves. This realization of what Odium could do paired with the Dawnchant revelations in Oathbringer would make any noble order of powerful people be afraid of what they might do. 

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24 minutes ago, Morningtide said:

This is a plausible theory. Combined with Maya's revelation in the climax of Rhythm of War, I could see the old Radiants following this train of thought. I've always thought that Odium had a heavy influence on Alethi culture, especially with the help of the Thrill. Odium manipulated Dalinar in his youth and almost got Dalinar to be his champion. I think that the old Radiants were worried that Odium would be able to manipulate them in a similar way, and so broke their oaths out of fear of themselves. This realization of what Odium could do paired with the Dawnchant revelations in Oathbringer would make any noble order of powerful people be afraid of what they might do. 

Agreed. Also, there’s the issue of the Hierocracy deleting/editing history and manipulating doctrine. We don’t know all the details there, but it’s not hard to imagine Unmade/human agents being involved.

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