Fritochip

Secret Project #1: Everything we Know About the Magic

27 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I am listening through Tress of the Emerald Sea and would like to put out everything I can find about the magic of this world and hopefully you all noticed more about the magic and we can put it all in one place.

First off, there are 12 geosynchronous moons which must be equatorial or they would move in the sky of the planet compared to land features. So, The Rock (Diggin's Point) must be very near the equator. The moons drop "spores" which fills the low lying areas. "The Sea" is not filled with water, but rather spores. The Verdant Lunagry is about "50 to 60 miles" from The Rock and this makes me suspect that the moon is named something like Verda. Lunagries are the location of each moon's place of pollen/spore drop. The other moons drop spores of different colors including red (a cup in the story has a butterfly flying over a "Red Ocean".  There also mentions of seas that are Emerald, Crimson, and Midnight and are presumably filled from different Lunagies. 

The Verdant Lunagry drops green spores. "Ship's sail that dust like ships sail water", but they are also light enough that they can be blown by the wind. When a ship sets sail, the ocean pushes air up which supports the weight of the ship. The mechanics are very unclear to me. 

"Verdant Spores" are specifically listed as growing plants when exposed to water. I suspect the other Lunagries drop spores with a different magical effect along with their different color. When Verdant Spores are exposed to water, they suddenly and explosively grow plants and vines. You can use salt or silver to prevent this from happening. The Rock has a salty aquafer which has wells in it and the salty water protects against the effects of the Verdant Spores. Gray spores are "dead" and do not explode to life when exposed to water. 

The ocean is filled with spores and not water, but there are "fish" and "elephant seal" so there must be life in the ocean as the residents are not allowed to leave The Rock but are familiar with these things. 

There is a similarity to Nalthis in the the spores fade from colorful to gray. 

There is a similarity to Taldain as the magic falls from the sky and reacts with water like the White Sand. 

There is a similarity with Roshar in that "Emerald" spores cause life to grow much like emeralds do on Roshar. This should offer hints at what the other Lunagries spores would do. Roshar has ten poles stones and this planet has twelve moons, so there will be two additional colors beyond what is shown on Roshar. 

Please help clarify what else we know.

Thanks,

Chip

Edited by Fritochip
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Posted (edited)

We also know that (spoilers below for Tress of the Emerald Sea): 

Spoiler

Charlie gets taken to try and wed the "Sorceress"

This means this magic has special people who can use it (or maybe people who use it better / stronger).

Edited by The Titan God
Deleting accidental reduplication
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Posted (edited)

Aethers might utilize Anti Investiture?

Quote

Command: The Stoneshaper must often make a Command, mental or verbal, to truly control the stone. This is much like many other arcana around the cosmere, and is in itself not that novel. However, I find electrifying the news out of the mountains of Ur, that their current queen seems to have been able to Command the creation of an anti-Investiture. Long theorized, this will be my first true evidence it is possible—and can only be created through Intent.

I think that perhaps Foil, deep within his ocean, would find this information supports my theories over his. And he’d do well to listen to me on this matter if he ever wishes to achieve control over the aethers, as he has insisted is his goal.

- Ars Arcanum, RoW

Also, apparently the Aethers are quite a bit difficult to harness if Worldhoppers are having this exchange

Probably still involves bonding of some kind, as they did in Liar of Partinel and Aether of Night

I think it's probably supposed to be spelt Lunargris or Lunagris, like the real life substance Ambergris. Edit: just checked the text version, Brandon spells it as "lunagree". Ah, just got told that Ambergree is an accepted spelling of the word, so might be based on the same thing.

That also reminds me...  how are these people eating that much salt? Hmm... Brandon may be reusing his idea of Saltcrops from Mythwalker.

Also are all the Aethers world seas from Verdant? Can't be, right? They're different colours, so spores from different Aethers? Interesting that the Sorceress lives in the Midnight Sea then, seems like Brandon will have a reworked Aether of Night (as in, the substance), that's nice. Presumably, it's specifically Verdant spores that react to water (reminds me of White Sand, but probably not all that connected). There's still an Amberite like crystal Aether (which we know from Stormlight, courtesy of Mraize), probably the Crimson Sea one. Hopefully Ferrous and Bestarin also make their way, as they were my favorite Aethers!

Finally, the moons are the sources of the spores... that's... the largest physical manifestation of Investiture we've ever seen if the moons are Aethers. No wonder they compare themselves to Shards, geez (as per this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479/#e15226).

Maybe the moons aren't themselves Aethers, they've just... taken them over. Ah wait, the Cognitive Anomaly in Nalthis' orbit would be the biggest physical manifestation of Investiture we're aware of, given it's literally planet sized (assuming it's made of Investiture, which it probably is - it's definitely not made of matter or energy)

Edited by Honorless
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1 hour ago, Fritochip said:

The Verdant Lunagry drops green spores. "Ship's sail that dust like ships sail water", but they are also light enough that they can be blown by the wind. When a ship sets sail, the ocean pushes air up which supports the weight of the ship. The mechanics are very unclear to me. 

 

There is a video by Mark Rober which should explain how it works.

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I wonder if the 12 moons are actually the "original" Aethers. There's a WoB that some Aethers consider themselves Shard level, though Brandon wouldn't say that's objectively true. If they have this scale of effect/influence, creating whole oceans of spores, I can see why that might be claimed.

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45 minutes ago, Honorless said:

how are these people eating that much salt? Hmm... Brandon may be reusing his idea of Saltcrops from Mythwalker.

Thats was my though too reading that part.

 

47 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Finally, the moons are the sources of the spores... that's... the largest physical manifestation of Investiture we've ever seen if the moons are Aethers. No wonder they compare themselves to Shards,

i was just commenting this on reddit lol
 

Im really wondering what their history is and how involved in shattering history they are. If at all.

The Aethers are apparently pre-shattering, and with how much were learning about them its really starting to seem like they are Important, on a Cosmere scale.

they will also play a "very large" role in space age Cosmere which i believe(through various WoB) Era 4 will connect back to the Shattering/its mechanics/history in a large way, so im wondering if there is a connection there.

Or if the WoB just mean that easy to access magic like Aethers will be important in the space age or the Aethers themselves

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Hi, we are sequestering conversations on these to a special board. I've moved this topic there for you.

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5 hours ago, Fritochip said:

There is a connection to Nalthis in the the spores fade from colorful to gray. 

There is a connection to Taldain as the magic falls from the sky and reacts with water like the White Sand. 

There is a connection with Roshar in that "Emerald" spores cause life to grow much like emeralds do on Roshar. This should offer hints at what the other Lunagries spores would do. Roshar has ten poles stones and this planet has twelve moons, so there will be two additional colors beyond what is shown on Roshar. 

These are similarities not connections

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Crazy idea. Would the moon above the Midnight Ocean be....The Aether of Night?

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21 minutes ago, Fritochip said:

Crazy idea. Would the moon above the Midnight Ocean be....The Aether of Night?

I would imagine so (or the revised version of it, maybe it will be called Midnight this time).

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5 hours ago, Honorless said:

Ah wait, the Cognitive Anomaly in Nalthis' orbit would be the biggest physical manifestation of Investiture 

Cognitive Anomaly, that's something I'm not familiar with. Is that mentioned in the Nalthis Ars Arcanum Essay they said they wanted to do? If so what be a good place to read it?

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5 hours ago, Honorless said:

Ah wait, the Cognitive Anomaly in Nalthis' orbit would be the biggest physical manifestation of Investiture we're aware of, given it's literally planet sized (assuming it's made of Investiture, which it probably is - it's definitely not made of matter or energy)

Physical? Are you sure about that word?

2 minutes ago, iceblade44 said:

Cognitive Anomaly, that's something I'm not familiar with. Is that mentioned in the Nalthis Ars Arcanum Essay they said they wanted to do? If so what be a good place to read it?

It's on the star chart

Spoiler

576px-Starchart_nalthis_color.jpg

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7 hours ago, Honorless said:

Presumably, it's specifically Verdant spores that react to water

Phrasing reads to me as if they all do, personally.

Quote

The spores were only dangerous if you got them wet. Which is rather a problem, considering the number of wet things that leak from human bodies, even when they’re healthy. The least bit of water would cause the spores to sprout explosively, and the results could range from uncomfortable to deadly. Breathe in a burst of verdant spores, for example, and your saliva would send vines growing up out your mouth–or, in more interesting cases, into your sinuses and out around your eyes.

He references verdant spores with a "for example" later in the paragraph, which imo sounds like it applies to all of them rather than just the one.

7 hours ago, Honorless said:

(reminds me of White Sand, but probably not all that connected)

It's definitely interesting. Khriss describes the sand lichen reaction as follows:

Quote

Giving water to the tiny plant causes a chain reaction of sudden growth, energy, and Realmic transition.

Which sounds a lot to me like how I'd expect the spores to be described, but it's also vague enough it can very plausibly be completely unrelated.

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2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

He references verdant spores with a "for example" later in the paragraph, which imo sounds like it applies to all of them rather than just the one.

I read that to say that

  • all spores react to water
  • the way they react is specific to the type of spore - Verdant turns into vines (hence the name presumably)
2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

It's definitely interesting. Khriss describes the sand lichen reaction as follows:

Which sounds a lot to me like how I'd expect the spores to be described, but it's also vague enough it can very plausibly be completely unrelated.

That is the big question here. Do they react to all non-salty water that way or does it need to be in connection with a living organism? Is the Verdant ocean covered in vines after every rain?

5 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I would imagine so (or the revised version of it, maybe it will be called Midnight this time).

Raising the obvious question: is it related to an Unmade?

 

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Glad I wasn't the only one who thought 'aethers,' especially when looking at the number 12 and the verdant spores acting a little like pulp essence in soulcasting. With that in mind, I'm bringing back my theory that the twelve aethers will line up with the Ten Essences + Light + Dark. 

Thank you for linking that video @Mazman, I was able to understand well enough from the description in the story what was going on, but the video really helped me visualize it. I do wonder where the air from the vents is coming from now, though. Either there's investiture at play, or it'd be doomed to run out eventually.

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14 hours ago, Honorless said:

I think it's probably supposed to be spelt Lunargris or Lunagris, like the real life substance Ambergris. Edit: just checked the text version, Brandon spells it as "lunagree". Ah, just got told that Ambergree is an accepted spelling of the word, so might be based on the same thing.

I believe it is related to apogee and perigee, the furthest  and closest points in the orbit of an orbiting body to the body it orbits. While the moons are stationary relative to the planet I think Brandon has still gone for the spirit of those words, so the Lunagree would be the closest point on the surface of the world to where the moons are.

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On 3/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Cocoa said:

Thank you for linking that video @Mazman, I was able to understand well enough from the description in the story what was going on, but the video really helped me visualize it. I do wonder where the air from the vents is coming from now, though. Either there's investiture at play, or it'd be doomed to run out eventually.

I'm not sure if there is air, although I remember Brandon saying that he was inspired by this phenomenon. So it could be air, or it could be some sort of gas.

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1 hour ago, Mazman said:

I'm not sure if there is air, although I remember Brandon saying that he was inspired by this phenomenon. So it could be air, or it could be some sort of gas.

It really does not matter for some questions what the gas is, in relation to some unclear phenomena. They could sail at a time they picked. That means they either control the release of the gas or they can predict it. That needs an explanation.

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On 3/4/2022 at 2:08 PM, Honorless said:

Also are all the Aethers world seas from Verdant? Can't be, right? They're different colours, so spores from different Aethers?

One meaning of the word "verdant" is "green".  The "Emerald Sea" of the title is the Verdant Ocean, which originates from the Verdant Lunagree - the point where those spores drop from the moon.

I think it's clear that each of the twelve moons drops spores of a different type, resulting in seas of twelve different colors.

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Posted (edited)

It is interesting to note that the island is made of barren black saltstone. Does the island repell or kill the spores themselves as it is made of salt? Is the air salt and therefor safe? How potent is salt? And are aethers in general salt-phobic, or just the spores?

What prevents the island from being overtaken by the spores? What geological or magical process is allowing the saltstone to shoot up? Was this once a mountain? 

Edited by teknopathetic
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Brandon just mentioned in the livestream last night that the Aethers will run on "the same basic principles" as in Aether of Night and that AoN is "close to canon"

He did however mention that one big tweak he made is that many people will now bond a single "core" Aether. 

im imagining it being pretty much like how we see the Verdant source in Aether of Night and thats where Verdant Aethers come from. Brandon just tweaked it so that the Verdant(or whatever aether) pieces taken from the source stay connected with the core Aether.
 

 

Some other info on them/the world

- the planets name is "lumar" 

- The twelves different "moons" are Aethers that Brandon imagines are positioned like a d12 dice around the planet.

-The spores/oceans are indeed different colors and different colored spores do different things(cause they are different aethers)

- the people who actually bond Aethers are being called "Aether Bound"(not sure if its one word or hyphenated or what)

- Lumar's Aethers are a different "strain" and are "doing something else" than the other. Whatever that means.

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15 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

- the people who actually bond Aethers are being called "Aether Bound"(not sure if its one word or hyphenated or what)

And hey are bound to one entity, at least per world. What implications does that have for the relations among the aetherbound? I suppose, taking the most extreme example, it is impossible for you to kill somebody who is bound to the same entity. Nor can you most likely swindle them. So no poker games. Is that the reason Mraize cannot use Amberite? He couldn't keep confidentiality if he were to bond to it?
Are they by virtue of their bonds members of an extended family?

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

And hey are bound to one entity, at least per world. What implications does that have for the relations among the aetherbound?

Honestly, im more interested in the implications it has for the Aethers themselves. 

like, if they bond many people is it like... expansion... almost, for them? Theyre bonding/attaching a piece of their soul to many people, and we know that these types bonds do benefit both parties. So what do the Aethers get out of it?

 

what trove of information couldve been gleaned over 10,000 years or more just from having so many bonds with so many different souls over all that time? Like we know that Spren intuitively know some things about their Radiant even though they werent bonded when said events happened. But the thing is, the Aethers are next level. They seem more powerful, less bound/restricred and more ancient. Who knows what they can do with that.

Edited by Eternal Khol
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6 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Honestly, im more interested in the implications it has for the Aethers themselves. 

like, if they bond many people is it like... expansion... almost, for them? Theyre bonding/attaching a piece of their soul to many people, and we know that these types bonds do benefit both parties. So what do the Aethers get out of it?

That is much harder to say, as that question implies a question about what the aethers lack.

So we can only look at potential benefits. Obviously

  • sense organs
  • hands
  • communication channels

If you look at it from a psychological angle

  • companions, imagine having only 11 other people to talk to for millenia
  • new views

And speculatively

  • pollinators

Hoid is not really clear on what fills the oceans. He often calls them spores, but sometimes pollen. Pollen are not spores. Technically they are a generation in the life cycle that has been reduced to consisting only of a testicle. Yet now we know that there are multiple core aethers, so we must ask how they reproduce.

6 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

what trove of information couldve been gleaned over the 10,000 years or more just from having so many bonds with so many different souls over all that time? Like we know that Spren intuitively know some things about their Radiant even though they werent bonded when said events happened. But the thing is, the Aethers are next level. They seem more powerful, less bound/restricred and more ancient. Who knows what they can do with that.

Spren are in a certain way condensed human thoughts. Aethers are - at least they seem to think so -  older than man, thereby truly alien. Hence I'd say that their relationship to humans is less close, In fact they may view humans like humans view aviars. We cannot expect them to fully understand people.

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3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

In fact they may view humans like humans view aviars

Its perfect that you said that, because its something that ive kinda been thinking, i just didnt know how to put it into words!

The Aethers could totally be using people like Aviar. Thats kinda the direction i was aiming when i was talking about them "expanding" through the bond

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