Could somebody triple there Allomantic powers?

[Wayne's Unlucky Hat]

Could somebody both Mistborn AND Feruchemist triple their powers by getting thirty two Hemalurgic spikes 

[Wayne's Unlucky Hat]

Could somebody that powerful Pull/Push on aluminum?

[NameIess]

22 minutes ago, SandersonFan123 said:

Could somebody both Mistborn AND Feruchemist triple their powers by getting thirty two Hemalurgic spikes 

Not normally. Hemalurgy normally loses a bit of power, so if they spiked people of the same strength as themselves they would end up with a little less than double their previous power. If the people they spikes were more than twice as strong as them, then they could double their power. However, using hemalurgy, especially at that level, makes you extremely vulnerable to being controlled by any shard or even soother/rioter that wants to control you, and fullborns have a much safer alternative. Using feruchemical nicrosil, they can store their powers and then compound them. That would allow them to become extremely powerful without having to kill tons of people or opening themselves up to mind control.

23 minutes ago, SandersonFan123 said:

Could somebody that powerful Pull/Push on aluminum?

I do not believe so. Aluminum is basically like a rock, as far as pushes and pulls are concerned.

[Robin Sedai]

Please don't double post - we prefer you edit if you have something new to say.

36 minutes ago, SandersonFan123 said:

Could somebody both Mistborn AND Feruchemist triple their powers by getting thirty two Hemalurgic spikes 

Also, ouch.

[Wayne's Unlucky Hat]

What if they drive right from the victim to the target?

[NameIess]

2 minutes ago, SandersonFan123 said:

What if they drive right from the victim to the target?

They would lose less, but still a little bit. Hemalurgy is Ruin’s magic system, and Ruin is all about entropy, so I don’t think you could ever make it 100% efficient. You’ll always lose at least a tiny bit.

[Wayne's Unlucky Hat]

but it would be just under triple power

[NameIess]

6 minutes ago, SandersonFan123 said:

but it would be just under triple power

If they spiked someone twice as strong as themselves. Unless you’re saying that they give themselves two sets of 16 spikes for allomancy, in which case yes, they would be just under three times as strong.

[Quantus]

There's an upper limit to how many spikes you can have before you start to unravel entirely, which is a lot of why the Inquisitors didnt all get full sets fo the powers.  But that just means you'd need to be in era1 to get full Mistborn and Feruchemist to spike the whole set.  

[Benkinsky]

what even would "tripling" mean in that sense. Efficiency of investiture-to-power or metal-to-power conversion? Extra abilities, like how

Spoiler

2*bronze lets you pierce copperclouds

? I assume

Spoiler

2*copper would let you hide from 2*bronze again?

But apart from that, i don't think it works in the way that a Double coinshots pushes are twice as strong.

[NameIess]

57 minutes ago, Benkinsky said:

what even would "tripling" mean in that sense. Efficiency of investiture-to-power or metal-to-power conversion? Extra abilities, like how

  Reveal hidden contents

2*bronze lets you pierce copperclouds

? I assume

  Reveal hidden contents

2*copper would let you hide from 2*bronze again?

But apart from that, i don't think it works in the way that a Double coinshots pushes are twice as strong.

It does work that way. The stronger you are, the faster you can burn metal, and the more powerful your pushes/pulls/soothing/rioting/copperclouds/seeking/whatever becomes.

[Duxredux]

5 hours ago, Nameless said:

6 hours ago, SandersonFan123 said:

Could somebody that powerful Pull/Push on aluminum?

I do not believe so. Aluminum is basically like a rock, as far as pushes and pulls are concerned.

I agree that boosting Allomantic strength wouldn't let you Push/Pull Aluminum, but I think there's a little more detail than that. Aluminum is specifically inert and one of its properties is that it resists Invested influence far beyond anything I can think of. Nightblood's sheath is made out of Aluminum and seems to do just fine. Considering all of the crazy stuff that we've seen Nightblood do, that's saying something. Rhythm of War spoiler:

Spoiler

I mean, Nightblood can knock chips out of an Honorblade and kill a Vessel, and yet a Fused used the sheath to block Nightblood in Oathbringer.

Other examples, from the Bands of Mourning:

Spoiler

Wax seems to not be able to Push/Pull on Suit's Aluminum gun at the very end, even while using the Bands of Mourning. Earlier the Bands let him throw a boulder off of himself with Steel. 

I'd say Aluminum is even more Allomantically inert than a rock. Aluminum is weird.

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Duxredux said:

I'd say Aluminum is even more Allomantically inert than a rock. Aluminum is weird.

Well, I wouldn't say that. I would just say that aluminum is the same as pure non-metallic substance. Most rocks have trace metals in them, but the rocks themselves are still immune to allomantic pushes, no matter how strong they are.

[Duxredux]

I still don't think it's the same as a pure non-metallic substance because it specifically blocks or inhibits Allomancy. You could totally Push on something behind a brick wall but I don't think you could Push on something behind an Aluminum sheet. In Alloy of Law, Wax does an analysis of the Aluminum alloy in the Set's guns and bullets because they aren't pure Aluminum (at least the bullets aren't) and he thought there was ekaboron in there (also known as scandium), which is a rare earth metal. Still couldn't Push on the trace metals in them.

That said, we do both agree that getting super powerful Allomancy still wouldn't let you Push/Pull on Aluminum.

[cometaryorbit]

 

On 3/2/2022 at 2:08 PM, Duxredux said:

I still don't think it's the same as a pure non-metallic substance because it specifically blocks or inhibits Allomancy. You could totally Push on something behind a brick wall but I don't think you could Push on something behind an Aluminum sheet.

I agree; an aluminum-lined hat messes with emotional Allomancy, even though the emotional Allomancy isn't targeting the hat. So aluminum would probably block a Push "through" it.

On 3/2/2022 at 1:45 PM, Nameless said:

Well, I wouldn't say that. I would just say that aluminum is the same as pure non-metallic substance. Most rocks have trace metals in them, but the rocks themselves are still immune to allomantic pushes, no matter how strong they are.

I think there's a potential argument to be made that incredibly high Allomantic strength could Push or Pull on non-metals:

 

Quote

 

Argent

Mechanically speaking, how does steelsight work? The scientific definition of "metal" gets a little murky in the middle of the periodic table-

Brandon Sanderson

It does.

Argent

-and we see that powerful enough Allomancers can see more than just metals.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

Argent

Are Connection and perception significantly involved here?

Brandon Sanderson

To an extent, but the science of it also is. I feel like the stronger steelsight is getting, the more it is detecting things like electromagnetic bonds and even, you know, the strong and weak force and some of these sorts of things that is just in everything, right? And I do think that in strongest applications, Allomancy is going to be moving beyond metals and moving toward things like fundamental forces. So there you go.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

 

 

Yes, that's talking about steelsight, not actual Steelpushing, but it's probably the same basic mechanism.

But that would be a truly absurd level of strength - TLR's Push in his final fight with Vin and Marsh only moved stained glass somewhat, and I think that has significant trace metal in it.