Idea on the 5th ideal powers

[Frustration]

17 minutes ago, Morningtide said:

As of new information in the prologue to Stormlight 5:

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I think that the fifth ideal makes you into a herald. Gavilar was searching for the "most important words a man can say". Through Dalinar, this phrase already has some thematic ties to the Knights Radiant oaths. The fact that the Stormfather seemed to be lying about a lot of things combined with the fact that Gavilar quoted one part of The Way of Kings that seemed similar to the first oath of the Knights Radiant kind of seems to be intentionally drawing attention to the Oaths. 

The only fifth ideal Radiant that we currently know of IS a Herald; Nale is the only confirmed one. There should also be a significant power up linked to the fifth ideal.

Problems with this:

I'm pretty sure that Nale told Szeth that he was the only Herald who eventually joined his own order. This is a really big problem with the theory. Maybe he was either crazy or lying? Maybe I'm just wrong

I'm also pretty sure that the Honorblades are not traditional shardblades - they're not spren. I don't remember a citation for this, a quote or WoB would be nice if anyone has one. Nale has another blade, one that is his spren. Either ALL of the Heralds have an extra blade, or they gave up their spren blade. This is another big problem. 

 

Spoiler

Heralds predate the Nahel bond, by a significant margin.

The Honorblades were made by Honor specifically for the Haeralds.

 

[Morningtide]

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

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Heralds predate the Nahel bond, by a significant margin.

The Honorblades were made by Honor specifically for the Haeralds.

 

Ok thank you!

[Wandering Shade]

I think the 5th Ideal might actually stop aging as the Knight takes on the immortality inherent to their spren and the spren gets even more range and freedom and such. Incredibly increased stormlight efficiency is definitely part of it, but I feel like immortality (in regards to aging) is pretty likely, based on some info.

SP4

Spoiler

Sigzil says he doesn't want to go back to Roshar because he doesn't want to lead the Night Brigade to people who love him. But this is centuries ahead in the timeline, around the time of Sixth of the Dusk, so unless some of our protagonists get immortality, I dunno how that makes any sense.

 

[Master Silver]

On 4/5/2022 at 3:08 AM, Wandering Shade said:

I think the 5th Ideal might actually stop aging as the Knight takes on the immortality inherent to their spren and the spren gets even more range and freedom and such. Incredibly increased stormlight efficiency is definitely part of it, but I feel like immortality (in regards to aging) is pretty likely, based on some info.

SP4

  Reveal hidden contents

Sigzil says he doesn't want to go back to Roshar because he doesn't want to lead the Night Brigade to people who love him. But this is centuries ahead in the timeline, around the time of Sixth of the Dusk, so unless some of our protagonists get immortality, I dunno how that makes any sense.

 

I do really like this idea. Brandon needs to find some way to get characters to span time gaps. So perhaps 5th ideal grants similar abilities to the 5th heightening. I also think in terms of holding storm light better and better, what if the Knight gains a gem-heart, like every other creature on Roshar? And not only a gem-heart, but a perfect gem-heart. And this is where the perfect gem-hearts come from. Also, in terms of immortality/cognitive shadow, a human who becomes the Law (5th ideal), how would that cognitive shadow be much different than a High spren? Could that be one way spren are created? 5th lvl Radiants die, cognitive shadow merges with a bit of power (stormlight) at a perpendicularity and becomes a spren, but forgets former life.

[Returned]

On 4/5/2022 at 2:08 AM, Wandering Shade said:

I think the 5th Ideal might actually stop aging as the Knight takes on the immortality inherent to their spren and the spren gets even more range and freedom and such. Incredibly increased stormlight efficiency is definitely part of it, but I feel like immortality (in regards to aging) is pretty likely, based on some info.

The more I think about this, the more likely it (or something similar) is. At least, a greatly elongated lifespan. We've got examples of others in the Cosmere who avoid aging through sufficient Investiture, like having enough Breaths or undergoing the Shaod. Scadrial-style immortality is more of a tricky use of other powers but might still count.

Of course, we can't rule out the technological and magical advances that will come in the intervening decades after RoW. Convenient movement of Investiture, via stormlight-housing gems, and further feruchemical research (especially, but not only, with nicrosil) has the potential to turbocharge different Cosmere magics in ways we haven't seen before. Agelessness could become a pretty common commodity among well-placed people.

[Letryx13]

I kind of like the idea of the fifth ideal creating some kind of bond with Ryshadium. They’re described as the “third shard” by Adolin in Oathbringer, and it’s mentioned in WoR that radiants had access to them. The only issue I have with it is that two, or debatably four, orders wouldn’t need them. Gravitation and abrasion would make them redundant. 

[Master Silver]

2 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

I kind of like the idea of the fifth ideal creating some kind of bond with Ryshadium. They’re described as the “third shard” by Adolin in Oathbringer, and it’s mentioned in WoR that radiants had access to them. The only issue I have with it is that two, or debatably four, orders wouldn’t need them. Gravitation and abrasion would make them redundant. 

As with much of the Stormlight Archives, we see echoes of the truth that manage to survive and make its way down from history to the present. The light eyes rule in Alethkar because Surge Binders, especially the Radiants eye color changes to light eyes when they use stormlight. Shard bearers have a ranking system, where full shard bearers are given more status and are more dangerous than those with only one shard (either plate or blade). Well of course radiants who have earned their plate are of the 4th ideal. Of course there are a bunch of other things that are sort of half truths, seeing into the future was seemingly of Odium, so Alethi avoid things and card games that seem to be predicting the future. I think calling Ryshadium the third shard is likely half true. In the same way that living blades and living plate seem to be significantly better than dead blades and plate, I imagine a true Ryshadium bond would be the same way. For instance if they can change forms (maybe they are stuck in horse for like the blades are stuck as swords) or even be infused with stormlight by their riders. In terms of not being useful to 4 of the orders, that is true. But maybe those other order get Fabrials instead of horses. 

[Olmund]

2 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

I kind of like the idea of the fifth ideal creating some kind of bond with Ryshadium. They’re described as the “third shard” by Adolin in Oathbringer, and it’s mentioned in WoR that radiants had access to them. The only issue I have with it is that two, or debatably four, orders wouldn’t need them. Gravitation and abrasion would make them redundant. 

Ryshadium are cool, but this wouldn't work for a number of reasons -- one of which you pointed out. Before the return of the Radiants, it would make sense to consider Ryshadium to be on par with plate and blade -- they offered peerless mobility over land when there were no surgebinders. They can still be a useful resource for some orders, but certainly not on the same level as living plate and living blades.

Setting aside the fact that Ryshadium are separate biological entities from their radiants (and have their own bonds with spren), a bigger problem with your theory is that if a Ryshadium bond is required for the 5th Ideal that would place yet another severe limiter on the number of 5th ideal radiants (Ryshadium are incredibly rare).

That said, your comment makes me consider how powerful a radiant could be if both the radiant and their horse were fully outfitted with shardplate. I wonder if anyone has asked Brandon about whether living plate could be altered to fit a horse -- maybe two adjutant radiants working in tandem could fully encase a Ryshadium in plate, giving it insane strength & speed as well protection.

[Rg2045]

2 hours ago, Olmund said:

Ryshadium are cool, but this wouldn't work for a number of reasons -- one of which you pointed out. Before the return of the Radiants, it would make sense to consider Ryshadium to be on par with plate and blade -- they offered peerless mobility over land when there were no surgebinders. They can still be a useful resource for some orders, but certainly not on the same level as living plate and living blades.

Setting aside the fact that Ryshadium are separate biological entities from their radiants (and have their own bonds with spren), a bigger problem with your theory is that if a Ryshadium bond is required for the 5th Ideal that would place yet another severe limiter on the number of 5th ideal radiants (Ryshadium are incredibly rare).

That said, your comment makes me consider how powerful a radiant could be if both the radiant and their horse were fully outfitted with shardplate. I wonder if anyone has asked Brandon about whether living plate could be altered to fit a horse -- maybe two adjutant radiants working in tandem could fully encase a Ryshadium in plate, giving it insane strength & speed as well protection.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/478/#e15129
I looked for this just for you

[Dreamwa1ker]

Along the lines of the permanent bond between 5th Ideal Radiant and their spren, what if 5th Ideal is what you need to Worldhop with your spren - they become more Connected to you than to Rosharan system at that point, and pulled so much into the physical realm that it is possible? This would fit with the WOB that it would be really hard to worldhop with your spren right (5th Ideal is pretty dang hard)