Idea on the 5th ideal powers

[lukaash Pahn Kahl]

The theory that I believe is commonly held for 5th ideal powers is bringing the spren into the world. I was thinking that instead of that or with that, it would create humans a better holder for stormlight. Since human and spren soul's completely fuse together, humans could hold stormlight for much longer. I don't think it would be like the singers where they can hold stormlight/voidlight forever. However, the 5th ideal could make it so humans don't loss stormlight as fast. 

[Frustration Sliver]

Well every Oath level makes the radiant better at holding Stormlight.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Frustration

[lukaash Pahn Kahl]

Huh, that is pretty sick then.

[Harrycrapper Dakhor Monk]

Yea, given that the 5th ideal doesn't seem to confer something significant like the previous ideals, people have theorized that the Stormlight efficiency upgrade will be big. At least, assuming there isn't more to the 5th ideal than we know which is entirely possible. 

[honorblades Bloodsealer]

Although Stormlight efficiency is very useful, it feels anticlimactic for a 5th Oath. The Oath which is apparently so difficult that very few Radiants ever reach it. 

With every other Oath, Radiants gain additional Surges, access to a Shardblade, and eventually Shardplate. To me, this seems to indicate that 5th Oath would also grant something rather spectacular. "Better at holding Stormlight" just doesn't really feel that way to me. Seems like there should be something more there. 

[Frustration Sliver]

There is one manifestation of mysterious metal from Radiants yet to be explained. The shardblade sheaths. If they are like the others they are some form of dead spren.

I'm not saying that it is that, but it's a possibility that we can't rule out.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Frustration

[bmcclure7 Arbiter]

I expect that 5th ideal it will just be a super upgraded everything, But not add anything particularly new if it did I think we would have seen it foreshadowed by now. 

[bmcclure7 Arbiter]

11 hours ago, Frustration said:

There is one manifestation of mysterious metal from Radiants yet to be explained. The shardblade sheaths. If they are like the others they are some form of dead spren.

I'm not saying that is is that, but it's a possibility that we can't rule out.

 I thought that just was aluminum

[bmcclure7 Arbiter]

16 hours ago, honorblades said:

Although Stormlight efficiency is very useful, it feels anticlimactic for a 5th Oath. The Oath which is apparently so difficult that very few Radiants ever reach it. 

With every other Oath, Radiants gain additional Surges, access to a Shardblade, and eventually Shardplate. To me, this seems to indicate that 5th Oath would also grant something rather spectacular. "Better at holding Stormlight" just doesn't really feel that way to me. Seems like there should be something more there. 

 If that were so why wouldn't it be foreshadowed already.

[Frustration Sliver]

1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said:

 I thought that just was aluminum

Brandon has said that's what he wants, but I don't think that's right they change shape and comform to the shardblade they are applied to.

Please don't double post(posting twice without someone else posting)

[bmcclure7 Arbiter]

48 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Brandon has said that's what he wants, but I don't think that's right they change shape and comform to the shardblade they are applied to.

Please don't double post(posting twice without someone else posting)

But why would a 5th ideal radiante need a sheath 

[Frustration Sliver]

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

But why would a 5th ideal radiante need a sheath 

If it is the fifth ideal, then it will be far more acive when alive. If you can summon it anywhere you can render your oponents weapon useless.

[UnfortunatelyNamed Steel Inquisitor]

22 minutes ago, Frustration said:

If it is the fifth ideal, then it will be far more acive when alive. If you can summon it anywhere you can render your oponents weapon useless.

Considering Brandon planned for them to be aluminum originally, and that a shardblade sheath that you can summon anywhere seems kinda cheap, I don't think it works that way.

[Frustration Sliver]

3 hours ago, Nameless said:

Considering Brandon planned for them to be aluminum originally, and that a shardblade sheath that you can summon anywhere seems kinda cheap, I don't think it works that way.

I'm not sold on it myself, but I think it should be kept in mind.

[Kitch Lighteyes]

Every ideal ends up bringing their spren more and more into the physical world. The 5th ideal will probably allow the spren to maybe manifest additional objects, or different spren in different ways 

[Rg2045 Gyorn]

My thought is making the person a functional cognitive shadow. That they are so highly invested though the bond of their spren that the only way for them to die is to choose to. 

[Jerfier Bridgeman]

I think it's makes much stronger the Bond between spren and human. In this way, Spren can move to anywhere without losing herself even if the her human is not with her.

[Vin(Diesel) Cobalt Guard]

Maybe it's a shard steed. Kaladin would love that. 

I guess there is a small chance of that. The Ryshadium could be their descendants, hybridized with regular horses. 

I don't think it's likely. I mean, what would be the point for the orders that can fly? 

Maybe it's the ability to make your shardblade appear anywhere and move around by itself. That would make a Radiant almost impossible to defend against. We already have shardplate appearing on various people around Kaladin. What if he could make a shardblade appear in various places, maybe even miles away from him? 

 

 

[Lego Mistborn Silent Gatherer]

5 hours ago, Vin(Diesel) said:

Maybe it's a shard steed. Kaladin would love that. 

I guess there is a small chance of that. The Ryshadium could be their descendants, hybridized with regular horses. 

The Ryshadium are in a symbiotic relationship with a spren, which is what gives them their specialness.

[Wrae Bridgeman]

Maybe I am remembering it wrong, but doesn't one of the books say something about the Nahel bond being unbreakable after the fifth oath? I would think the "gain" from swearing the ideal has something to do with this.

Also, what would this mean for the spren, when their knight dies? (Seeing as there are no non-herald fifth oath radiants running around, I doubt they gain immortality, but you never know).

[Truthwatcher Artifabrian Grand]

2 hours ago, Wrae said:

Maybe I am remembering it wrong, but doesn't one of the books say something about the Nahel bond being unbreakable after the fifth oath? I would think the "gain" from swearing the ideal has something to do with this.

Also, what would this mean for the spren, when their knight dies? (Seeing as there are no non-herald fifth oath radiants running around, I doubt they gain immortality, but you never know).

I think the radiant or spren can still break the bond, but other people can no longer break it for you (not sure how that works).

I think the 5th oath will grant both that, and more intelligent cousin spren. Since at the 4th ideal you now have cousin spren following you around making shardplate, maybe they are smart enough at the 5th oath to look and and report back. With their spren organizing them, Radiants could have constant reports on everything going on within a large distance. For any order, that would be very beneficial.

[earthexile Arbiter]

I still think the 5th Oath confers permanent Stormlight, or access to Surges without needing light.

[PurpurPhönix Crew Leader]

2 hours ago, earthexile said:

I still think the 5th Oath confers permanent Stormlight, or access to Surges without needing light.

The investiture to power the Surges needs to come from somewhere, if this were the case where would it come from?

[Olmund High Prelan]

I think becoming a better vessel for stormlight, in itself, is actually a tremendous advantage. The amount of stormlight a radiant can hold and the rate at which they lose that stormlight is the greatest weakness of the Knights Radiant, and so if they can cram more stormlight into themselves and not lose as much of it just by breathing/exfoliating, they become significantly more durable. And that's not even considering the innate advantages that come with being more invested (e.g., heightenings that come with breath), which could partially explain why Nale is so good at spotting surgebinders.

Finally, surges seem to be more powerful in proportion to the stormlight spent on them. Carrying more stormlight means more investiture can be spent on a single use of a surge -- remember Vin absorbing the mists in the Mistborn Trilogy? She was able to perform greater allomantic feats than even duralumin-fueled allomacy. Applied to surges, you could see things happen on a truly massive scale (like what caused the shattered plains to...well, shatter). 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Olmund

[Morningtide Enefel]

As of new information in the prologue to Stormlight 5:

Spoiler

I think that the fifth ideal makes you into a herald. Gavilar was searching for the "most important words a man can say". Through Dalinar, this phrase already has some thematic ties to the Knights Radiant oaths. The fact that the Stormfather seemed to be lying about a lot of things combined with the fact that Gavilar quoted one part of The Way of Kings that seemed similar to the first oath of the Knights Radiant kind of seems to be intentionally drawing attention to the Oaths. 

The only fifth ideal Radiant that we currently know of IS a Herald; Nale is the only confirmed one. There should also be a significant power up linked to the fifth ideal.

Problems with this:

I'm pretty sure that Nale told Szeth that he was the only Herald who eventually joined his own order. This is a really big problem with the theory. Maybe he was either crazy or lying? Maybe I'm just wrong

I'm also pretty sure that the Honorblades are not traditional shardblades - they're not spren. I don't remember a citation for this, a quote or WoB would be nice if anyone has one. Nale has another blade, one that is his spren. Either ALL of the Heralds have an extra blade, or they gave up their spren blade. This is another big problem.