Gold Savant

[sexy_hoardling]

Just thought it would be an interesting short story where there’s a gold allomancer savant. Because gold seems useless but maybe this person burns it constantly because they like seeing different aspects of ppl and the advantage that gives them in life? Maybe there’s more too it to that would be interesting and I wonder if anyone else has thought of this. 

[AonDoor]

Gold lets people see themselves, not others. I couldn't find a WoB about gold savants, but I do wonder what it would do.

[cometaryorbit]

Maybe savantism would give control over what kinds of possibilities you see? Or maybe that's possible with just learning to use gold - we haven't seen it used much (once by Vin in the first book and once by Miles in AoL, both briefly).

[StanLemon]

I like to think A-Gold has parallels with Soulforging

[Adonlasium]

maybe gold savants can show others the image?
 

 

[+robardin]

Part of becoming an Allomantic savant is having the access to the metal to burn more or less constantly for a long period of time.

Spook became a tin savant, and Seekers (and maybe Copperclouds) often become savants just from frequent use of their power…

But tin, bronze, and copper are very common, easy to obtain, and therefore cheap metals. To become a savant in gold would take a LOT of gold, eh? Probably the hardest of the FE era metals to become a savant in, even if you wanted to, other than atium, just based on opportunity cost.

As for what effect it would have… Maybe the “other version”, the gold shadow, of the Allomancer would show what they’d be like had they never decided to become a gold savant, and how much the two hate each other is related to the waste of money and the pointlessness of what was achieved on the one side, and the presumptious judginess of the gold shadow on the other side. And by then the Augur in question barely needs to burn any gold at all to feel that dual self-loathing any more. LOL

Edited May 24, 2022 by robardin

[Duxredux]

I could see A-Gold Savants being able to fine tune how far into the past they can look for branching decision points. With practice, they may be able to identify a specific past decision to see how they would have changed had they made a specific decision other than the one they did. Augurs are able to see the state of their clothing, so that can help them to gain contextual clues on wealth, status, occupation, and maybe they would be able to show specific items other than clothing. Another option, they may be able to see more than two shadows at a time.

This is tenuous, but if you knew yourself and tried to personally develop this habit, if you always carried around a sign and marker, I wonder if you could get your gold shadows to hold up a sign with information? Particularly if you routinely asked yourself, what would I tell my alternate self if I could talk with them? I could see that mechanic being a cool skill for an Augur in a short story. Really builds tension when the Augur burns gold and one of the gold shadows is dead and holding a broken sign.

[Treamayne]

As for Gold Savant; I like the idea of having more control of from which braching point you are seeing an alternate version.

16 hours ago, Duxredux said:

more than two shadows at a time.

There is only one shadow with Gold (two with Malatium) - though the allomancer experiences two identities (who they are and who they could have been)

Gold

Spoiler

M:TFE Ch 27

Spoiler

“This is good,” he said, handing her the cloth. “Go ahead—just remember, burning the ninth metal is a strange experience.”

Vin nodded, suddenly feeling a bit apprehensive. You’ll never know if you don’t try it for yourself, she thought, then dumped the dustlike flakes into her mouth. She washed them down with a bit of water from her flask.

A new metal reserve appeared within her—unfamiliar and different from the nine she knew. She looked up at Kelsier, took a breath, and burned gold.

She was in two places at once. She could see herself, and she could see herself.

One of her was a strange woman, changed and transformed from the girl she had always been. That girl had been careful and cautious—a girl who would never burn an unfamiliar metal based solely on the word of one man. This woman was foolish; she had forgotten many of the things that had let her survive so long. She drank from cups prepared by others. She fraternized with strangers. She didn’t keep track of the people around her. She was still far more careful than most people, but she had lost so much.

The other her was something she had always secretly loathed. A child, really. Thin to the point of scrawniness, she was lonely, hateful, and untrusting. She loved no one, and no one loved her. She always told herself, quietly, that she didn’t care. Was there something worth living for? There had to be. Life couldn’t be as pathetic as it seemed. Yet, it had to be. There wasn’t anything else.

Vin was both. She stood in two places, moving both bodies, being both girl and woman. She reached out with hesitant, uncertain hands—one each—and touched herself on the faces, one each.

Vin gasped, and it was gone. She felt a sudden rush of emotions, a sense of worthlessness and confusion. There were no chairs in the room, so she simply squatted to the ground, sitting with her back to the wall, knees pulled up, arms wrapped around them.

AoL Ch 15

Spoiler

Miles questioned himself often. Was that the mark of a lack of dedication? He’d never done anything in his life without questioning.

He turned, studying his domain, such as it was. Thieves, murderers, and braggarts. He took a deep breath, then burned gold.

It was considered one of the least of the Allomantic metals. Far less useful than its alloy, which was in turn far less useful than one of the prime battle metals. In most cases, being a gold Misting was little better than being an aluminum Misting—a power so useless, it had become proverbial for one who did nothing.

But gold was not completely useless. Just mostly so. Upon burning it, Miles split. The change was visible only to his own senses, but for a moment, he was two people, two versions of himself. One was the man he had been. The angry lawkeeper, growing more bitter by the day. He wore a white duster over rugged clothing, with tinted spectacles to shade his eyes against the harsh sun. Dark hair kept short and greased back. No hat. He’d always hated those.

The other man was the man he’d become. Dressed in the clothing of a city worker—buttoned shirt and suspenders over dirty trousers with fraying cuffs. He walked with a slouch. When had that begun?

He could see through both pairs of eyes, think both sets of thoughts. He was two people at once, and each one loathed the other. The lawkeeper was intolerant, angry, and frustrated. He hated anything that broke with the strict order of the law, and meted out harsh punishments with no mercy. He had a special loathing for someone who had once followed the law, but had turned his back upon it.

The robber, the Vanisher, hated that the lawkeeper let others choose his rules. There was really nothing sacred about the law. It was arbitrary, created by powerful men to help them hold power. The criminal knew that secretly, deep down, the lawkeeper understood this. He was severe toward criminals because he felt so impotent. Each day, life grew worse for the good people, the people who tried, and the laws did little to help them. He was like a man swatting mosquitoes while ignoring the gash in his leg, an artery open and throbbing gushes of blood onto the floor.

Miles gasped, and extinguished his gold. He felt weary, suddenly, and slumped back against the wall.

So, one shadow and yourself - seeing through the eyes of both and thinking the thoughts of both

Malatium (Nalatium?)
 

Spoiler

M:TFE Ch 36

Spoiler

The Eleventh Metal, its power sitting within her, forming an unfamiliar reserve. She looked up, glaring at the old man. This had better work. She burned the Eleventh Metal.

Nothing happened.

Vin struggled in frustration, her heart sinking. And then she saw him. Another man, standing right beside the Lord Ruler. Where had he come from? She hadn’t seen him enter.

He had a full beard and wore a thick, woolen outfit with a fur-lined cloak. It wasn’t rich clothing, but it was well constructed. He stood quietly, seeming…content. He smiled happily.

Vin cocked her head. There was something familiar about the man. His features looked very similar to those of the man who had killed Kelsier. However, this man was older and…more alive.

Vin turned to the side. There was another unfamiliar man beside her, a young nobleman. He was a merchant, from the looks of his suit—and a very wealthy one at that.

What is going on?

The Eleventh Metal burned out. Both newcomers vanished like ghosts.

So, presumably, the first shadow is the past version of the target at the branching point and the second shadow is who they could have been now had they made different choices. Gold gives the sensation of touch because it gives you the thoughts and sensation of both yourself and your shadow (so a phantom "touch" that was what made Vin think she could kill TLR's shadow to kill him); but the Malatium shadow is as insubstantial as an Atium Shadow because you don't get any thoughts or sensations, just the visual of the branching point and alternate current identity.

Most instances showing the Eleventh Metal only show the past-shadow (or branching point shadow - if I am correct); and I can only assume it is because of Intent. The first time Vin burns it, she sees both shadows; then in jail she reasons out that she saw a version of a old shadows for somebody else and decides to "kill the past shadow." After that, we only get two more events - both of which she is looking the for the past shadow specifically. So, either that intent meant no second shadow was formed, or it did form and went unnoticed/unregarded because doing otherwise would throw off the pacing of the climax.

Not sure why Kelsier doesn't see a second shadow in M:SH, but he discovers flaring the metal to see more about the Connection to the branching point:

M:SH Ch 1

 

Spoiler

 

Kelsier burned the Eleventh Metal.

<snip>

Nothing changed, while everything changed. For to Kelsier’s eyes, two men now stood before him.

One was the immortal emperor who had dominated for a thousand years: an imposing figure with jet-black hair and a chest stuck through with two spears that he didn’t even seem to notice. Next to him stood a man with the same features—but a completely different demeanor. A figure cloaked in thick furs, nose and cheeks flush as if cold. His hair was tangled and windswept, his attitude jovial, smiling.

It was the same man.

Can I use this? Kelsier thought, frantic.

Black ash fell lightly between them. The Lord Ruler glanced toward the Inquisitor that Kelsier had killed. “Those are very hard to replace,” he said, his voice imperious.

That tone seemed a direct contrast to the man beside him: a vagabond, a mountain man wearing the Lord Ruler’s face. This is what you really are, Kelsier thought. But that didn’t help. It was only further proof that the Eleventh Metal wasn’t what Kelsier had once hoped. The metal was no magical solution for ending the Lord Ruler. He would have to rely instead upon his other plan.

And so, Kelsier smiled.

<snip>

The Lord Ruler backhanded him. Agony hit Kelsier like a stroke of lightning. In that moment, Kelsier flared the Eleventh Metal, and caught a glimpse of something new.

The Lord Ruler standing in a room—no, a cavern! The Lord Ruler stepped into a glowing pool and the world shifted around him, rocks crumbling, the room twisting, everything changing.

The vision vanished.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Treamayne
SPAG/Formatting

[Rashek's PR Manager]

On 2022/5/26 at 7:39 PM, Treamayne said:

 

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So, presumably, the first shadow is the past version of the target at the branching point and the second shadow is who they could have been now had they made different choices. 

 

Your speculation is valid, but I believe that the second shadow belonged to the Inquisitor holding Vin instead of TLR, since both Vin and Kelsier only saw one shadow in other circumstances.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Rashek's PR Manager said:

Your speculation is valid, but I believe that the second shadow belonged to the Inquisitor holding Vin instead of TLR, since both Vin and Kelsier only saw one shadow in other circumstances.

Ahh, I can see that as another option I hadn't considered because she had been grabbed from behind and wasn't looking at Kar (except the glance at his healing leg) while burning the metal.

[Returned]

Wasn't it pretty clear that Miles Hundredlives was a gold savant? He was burning it more or less constantly while awake for his compounding, and we do get one scene of his experience burning it in Alloy of Law. If my memory of that scene is correct this might be one of those metals with which becoming a savant is possible but not very impressive. I don't have time to find and re-read that scene right now, but I'll check into it later.

[Zapata]

40 minutes ago, Returned said:

Wasn't it pretty clear that Miles Hundredlives was a gold savant? He was burning it more or less constantly while awake for his compounding, and we do get one scene of his experience burning it in Alloy of Law. If my memory of that scene is correct this might be one of those metals with which becoming a savant is possible but not very impressive. I don't have time to find and re-read that scene right now, but I'll check into it later.

He's definitely a Bloodmaker savant at this point, but probably not an Augur savant

[Returned]

7 minutes ago, Zapata said:

He's definitely a Bloodmaker savant at this point, but probably not an Augur savant

But wouldn't they be related, as he's almost constantly burning gold for his compounding? Maybe not, my fuzzy recollection is that in the one scene in which we see this described he's only burning the gold lightly. I suppose that compounding is pretty efficient with any amount of Allomancy. So maybe he can thread the needle and burn gold way below any threshold required for savantism while also being indestructible.

[Zapata]

1 hour ago, Returned said:

But wouldn't they be related, as he's almost constantly burning gold for his compounding? Maybe not, my fuzzy recollection is that in the one scene in which we see this described he's only burning the gold lightly. I suppose that compounding is pretty efficient with any amount of Allomancy. So maybe he can thread the needle and burn gold way below any threshold required for savantism while also being indestructible.

Allomantically, a goldmind and regular gold are pretty much two different metals. Burning a goldmind causes Preservation's Investiture to take a different "shape" than regular gold does. Therefore, the Investiture flowing through Miles is different depending on which gold he burns. So he would develop savantism for both at different rates.

[Treamayne]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:49 PM, Zapata said:

Allomantically, a goldmind and regular gold are pretty much two different metals. Burning a goldmind causes Preservation's Investiture to take a different "shape" than regular gold does. Therefore, the Investiture flowing through Miles is different depending on which gold he burns. So he would develop savantism for both at different rates.

Here's a WoB saying the same thing:

 

Spoiler

 

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

What would happen if a person were to burn a metal that was Feruchemically charged using Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The metal used in Allomancy is like a key or a doorway to the power that Allomancy actually uses. The metal acts as a filter, much as the Aons in Elantris do, to determine what the power actually does. However, if the metal is Feruchemically charged, then it will basically become a super-burst of Feruchemical power with no Allomantic effect.

 

So, you can't become an A-Gold savant burning F-Gold

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

Personally I think you would see lingering remnants of your own goldshadow that never fully goes away, at the edges of your vision half-formed