Rings of Power

[Eluvianii]

Watched the trailer and I liked it but the comments are... unanimous. I'm a movie only person. To the book fans, does it look that bad?

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Eluvianii said:

Watched the trailer and I liked it but the comments are... unanimous. I'm a movie only person. To the book fans, does it look that bad?

Unfortunetly, yes.

[Eluvianii]

Well, I guess I'll enjoy this while it lasts if it's doomed to fail. Some day I'll read the source material and understand the issues.

[Frustration]

Just now, Eluvianii said:

Well, I guess I'll enjoy this while it lasts if it's doomed to fail. Some day I'll read the source material and understand the issues.

What would it take to get you to read it?

[Eluvianii]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

What would it take to get you to read it?

Nothing. Wait, that sounds bad, I mean it's already in my plans. I've already read 100 pages or so from the first book (not to mention all of The Hobbit years ago) and I really liked it. I just haven't spared some time to read it. I'm focused on finishing what I have left of the Cosmere and WoT and that will be a bit time consuming, considering I'm really slow at reading.

[Spren of Kindness]

17 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

Watched the trailer and I liked it but the comments are... unanimous. I'm a movie only person. To the book fans, does it look that bad?

It didn't look that bad to me, but I thought the same thing about the Foundation trailers, so we shall see.

I'm also one of those people who tends to shrug off what others might dislike.  If it's good, great!  If it's bad, oh well.  I can't spare the bandwidth to get really mad about something that isn't real.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

Nothing. Wait, that sounds bad, I mean it's already in my plans. I've already read 100 pages or so from the first book (not to mention all of The Hobbit years ago) and I really liked it. I just haven't spared some time to read it. I'm focused on finishing what I have left of the Cosmere and WoT and that will be a bit time consuming, considering I'm really slow at reading.

Alright, well maybe one day.

[Eluvianii]

4 minutes ago, Spren of Kindness said:

It didn't look that bad to me, but I thought the same thing about the Foundation trailers, so we shall see.

I'm also one of those people who tends to shrug off what others might dislike.  If it's good, great!  If it's bad, oh well.  I can't spare the bandwidth to get really mad about something that isn't real.

Honestly I'm in a similar spot. With adaptations if it's faithful, then perfect. If the story goes off the rails, then now I have two different stories with characters I like instead of one. If even the new story isn't that good, then we at least got some good eye candy out of it. Even if it's not perfect or even if it's really flawed there's usually something I can enjoy. I'm not nitpicky.

[Randomed]

Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Randomed

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

58 minutes ago, Randomed said:

Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.

ARE YOU CALLING LOTR EVIL? IF SO GET OUT OF HERE!

[Frustration]

22 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

ARE YOU CALLING LOTR EVIL? IF SO GET OUT OF HERE!

That's litterally a Tolkien quote. Randomed is calling the TV series a preversion of the original material.

[NameIess]

2 hours ago, Randomed said:

Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.

I'm going to watch the show before making a judgement. Maybe it'll be awful, but I haven't seen anything absolutely horrible (besides female dwarves no having beards of course) and I have seen some things that seem like good signs.

[Randomed]

As I wrote, I am a huge fan of Tolkien's work. I read all the books, played all the games on the market, even read his private notes and letters that are available. I know what Tolkien smoked in his pipe and what could have inspired the halfling's leaf. I remarked that this TV Show may be irritating to me. I used one of his quotes, I didn't think it would offend anyone.
I understand that writers cover a period of time he has not described. However, some points were clearly described and nevertheless have been changed. I consider it a disrespect for his work and the pride of the screenwriters

Edited February 15, 2022 by Randomed

[Channelknight Fadran]

...we have a one-minute teaser trailer

[Frustration]

This has been bothering me way too much, but who are the people with horns?

[NameIess]

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

This has been bothering me way too much, but who are the people with horns?

I think they might just be carrying something with horns?

[Channelknight Fadran]

I'm hoping they might be shape-changers, like Beorn? But I don't think that makes too much sense.

Some shmuck thought they were the Rangers. I laughed at them.

Spoiler

In case y'all aren't aware:

The Rangers are another name for the remnants of the Numenoreans after Numenor fell. They're descended from the Dunedain (which I might've spelled wrong), which was a splinter group of the Numenoreans that were friends of the free peoples.

In short, they weren't around during the Second Age.

 

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I think they might just be carrying something with horns?

That's part of what I've been thinking and it's too far to say for sure, but there's also a girl(0:16) and it looks like she has horns.

2 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

I'm hoping they might be shape-changers, like Beorn? But I don't think that makes too much sense.

I'm not sure how I feel about someone adding to the lore.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Frustration

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

I really think if this succeeds they will get more daring with each new Lotr content they add. I really hope they do an adaption of the Children of Hurin story.

[Frustration]

So I'm looking at some of the things the shows Lore Expert has said, and it doesn't look good.

[Use the Falchion]

I'm not a LOTR fan at all, but I've seen the original movies a couple of times throughout the years and watched the Hobbit movies in theaters with friends when they came out (and I remember not liking much outside of the casting). 

With that mindset, I was excited to see the trailer, and I really liked it! I thought it teased the world very well and looked very good for a show. The saddest part to me has been the reception from the fans.

I get it not looking like the books, but WOW was I not expecting the levels of racism and vitriol I found on even the good YouTuber's channel. As a black man, this made me deeply uncomfortable. I looked to other parts and people to try and see if it was just an awkward place and time, but the controversy over skin tone seems fairly, to the point I wondered if I should watch this show at all. Not because it may be bad, but because I'm going to want to talk to it with people if I do watch it, and I don't want to deal with things there that I have to deal with in other fandoms and aspects of life. 

That isn't to say other fandoms haven't dealt with this - WoT was subject to this as well, but that quickly left the picture when 1. the actors nailed the characters regardless of the looks, and 2. the plot changed, meaning fans had "more important" things to deal with.  Star Wars dealt with this, but it felt more like an esoteric civil war than what I can see with LOTR. Superhero movies deal with this, although far less than they used to nowadays, and mostly about specific things like race lifts vs original characters. 

I understand that these things aren't reflections of the whole of a community, but when it's your first impression and one that hasn't really been proven wrong, can you blame someone for dipping out and/or calling the community toxic? THAT BEING SAID, I AM NOT CALLING THE LOTR TOXIC. I've heard it called toxic before, and my first impressions certainly didn't help that, but I'm simply not involved enough to make that claim. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Use the Falchion

[Toaster Retribution]

The LotR movie trilogy are the best movies ever made in my opinion. The Hobbit is not as awesome, but I enjoy them. I have read both LotR and Hobbit and some of Tolkiens other Middle-Earth works (Children of Hurin is the best by a long shot) but I’m not particularly well-versed in the lore. That said, I like the trailer. It gives the looks and vibes of Jacksons Middle-Earth, which is what a tv-adaption should be going for I think. I’m excited by exploring various storylines and characters, and the comments from the showrunners sound promising. My one issue is that it looks a bit too CGI-y, but that will hopefully not be too big an issue in the show. 

On 2022-02-15 at 3:57 PM, Channelknight Fadran said:

...we have a one-minute teaser trailer

Also this. I don’t get how some people can be so incredibly upset over one minute from what will be a hours worth of story. 

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

18 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

I'm not a LOTR fan at all, but I've seen the original movies a couple of times throughout the years and watched the Hobbit movies in theaters with friends when they came out (and I remember not liking much outside of the casting). 

With that mindset, I was excited to see the trailer, and I really liked it! I thought it teased the world very well and looked very good for a show. The saddest part to me has been the reception from the fans.

I get it not looking like the books, but WOW was I not expecting the levels of racism and vitriol I found on even the good YouTuber's channel. As a black man, this made me deeply uncomfortable. I looked to other parts and people to try and see if it was just an awkward place and time, but the controversy over skin tone seems fairly, to the point I wondered if I should watch this show at all. Not because it may be bad, but because I'm going to want to talk to it with people if I do watch it, and I don't want to deal with things there that I have to deal with in other fandoms and aspects of life. 

That isn't to say other fandoms haven't dealt with this - WoT was subject to this as well, but that quickly left the picture when 1. the actors nailed the characters regardless of the looks, and 2. the plot changed, meaning fans had "more important" things to deal with.  Star Wars dealt with this, but it felt more like an esoteric civil war than what I can see with LOTR. Superhero movies deal with this, although far less than they used to nowadays, and mostly about specific things like race lifts vs original characters. 

I understand that these things aren't reflections of the whole of a community, but when it's your first impression and one that hasn't really been proven wrong, can you blame someone for dipping out and/or calling the community toxic? THAT BEING SAID, I AM NOT CALLING THE LOTR TOXIC. I've heard it called toxic before, and my first impressions certainly didn't help that, but I'm simply not involved enough to make that claim. 

Yeah. I kind of agree with you here Falchion. but here is the thing. Hobbits as we know don't have black skin tones. but to be fair we don't actually know if hobbits did have those skin tones. I do like the fact that they are trying to have different skin tones in the LotR universe. The community can be very critical of things adding to the canon. The trailer just makes people a little on edge, see after the hobbit and the lotr trilogy Tolkien did not write anything more. his son took his notes and put them together into all the other stuff we have now. I hope this experience doesn't leave a bad taste and opinion of the LotR community.

[Use the Falchion]

1 hour ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

Yeah. I kind of agree with you here Falchion. but here is the thing. Hobbits as we know don't have black skin tones. but to be fair we don't actually know if hobbits did have those skin tones. I do like the fact that they are trying to have different skin tones in the LotR universe. The community can be very critical of things adding to the canon. The trailer just makes people a little on edge, see after the hobbit and the lotr trilogy Tolkien did not write anything more. his son took his notes and put them together into all the other stuff we have now. I hope this experience doesn't leave a bad taste and opinion of the LotR community.

Thank for understanding. I'm just always confused on why this should matter in the first place in a fantastical world.

Sometimes I get the argument, like the debate about how it would change things if Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne were of a different race/ethnicity. But even then, the change can lead to good social commentary or connecting with audiences that have historically been left out, so I'm always a proponent of that type of change if it means more representation or a different story. (Black Clark Kent raised by white parents can help the character reach out to transracial adoptees; Black Bruce Wayne can be used to underscore the sometimes "Oreo" feeling that Black people feel if they aren't "urban' enough, or even highlight the simple fact that tragedies and crimes that happen to minorities are less likely to be covered or reported.) 

In the case of fantasy adaptations, I guess I don't see why it would matter. Having more people see more characters that look like them onscreen should be a good thing. For the little black girl who always loved fantasy but never saw herself in those fantasy shows, why should she feel left out because it wasn't explicitly in the books? 

Then again, as of WoT, I've started realizing and approaching adaptations with the mindset that these aren't made to be 1-1 adaptations, nor are they truly made for the hardcore fans.* We as Brandon Sanderson fans have the luxury of seeing this firsthand, so that when (and not if, but when) Mistborn and Stormlight and other works by Brandon are adapted, we don't fall into the same traps. Vin may not be a pale-skinned black-haired girl like she is in the books. Kelsier may have scars on his shoulders and face instead of primarily his hands. And that will be okay. Stormlight will be harder of course, but it's already a step ahead due to having its ethnographic information built in and some parts such as eye color and hair color even classified as important. 

 

*It's more of that I had accepted this and all different versions when it came to superhero stuff, but I'm transferring that over to fantasy as of WoT and all of Brandon's talks about how different the Mistborn screenplay treatment is from the book.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

1 minute ago, Use the Falchion said:

Thank for understanding. I'm just always confused on why this should matter in the first place in a fantastical world.

Sometimes I get the argument, like the debate about how it would change things if Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne were of a different race/ethnicity. But even then, the change can lead to good social commentary or connecting with audiences that have historically been left out, so I'm always a proponent of that type of change if it means more representation or a different story. (Black Clark Kent raised by white parents can help the character reach out to transracial adoptees; Black Bruce Wayne can be used to underscore the sometimes "Oreo" feeling that Black people feel if they aren't "urban' enough, or even highlight the simple fact that tragedies and crimes that happen to minorities are less likely to be covered or reported.) 

In the case of fantasy adaptations, I guess I don't see why it would matter. Having more people see more characters that look like them onscreen should be a good thing. For the little black girl who always loved fantasy but never saw herself in those fantasy shows, why should she feel left out because it wasn't explicitly in the books? 

Then again, as of WoT, I've started realizing and approaching adaptations with the mindset that these aren't made to be 1-1 adaptations, nor are they truly made for the hardcore fans.* We as Brandon Sanderson fans have the luxury of seeing this firsthand, so that when (and not if, but when) Mistborn and Stormlight and other works by Brandon are adapted, we don't fall into the same traps. Vin may not be a pale-skinned black-haired girl like she is in the books. Kelsier may have scars on his shoulders and face instead of primarily his hands. And that will be okay. Stormlight will be harder of course, but it's already a step ahead due to having its ethnographic information built in and some parts such as eye color and hair color even classified as important. 

 

*It's more of that I had accepted this and all different versions when it came to superhero stuff, but I'm transferring that over to fantasy as of WoT and all of Brandon's talks about how different the Mistborn screenplay treatment is from the book.

Yeah. one of the biggest arguments me and my friends have on this is that JK Rowling said that Hermione was black. I am not against having people with darker skin tones in books or on tv as I have said above, but as one of my friends has said and maybe you can correct this, and I quote, "how can Hermione have black skin if her face shown palely in the moonlight." obviously you can correct this if it is wrong but it makes more sense if Hermione has lighter skin tones. also why would this change anything if the fandom has widely accepted that Hermione is white, the movies have already been made so it wouldn't change anything regardless. Black Clark Kent is something I would pay to see, it sounds like a good idea that people would love (or at least us two) in writing I have realized that even if you make an all powerful character without anything like your readers then the readers won't like them. Having people with darker skin color in books and shows is great, but when you do it decades after your books and tv shows after those characters specifically have one skin color and you change it I don't think it works. but for the case we are talking about it is a little different as there are many different kinds of hobbits that have interbreeded. and indeed we have only actually seen one part of the shire in the movies so who can say that in the other parts there are not hobbits with different skin tones.

All in all I think it is great that we are getting different kinds of hobbits on screen.