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The Lost Metal Chapter 1

NameIess

By NameIess
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HSuperLee

HSuperLee

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I thought it was Waxillium after Wax, but Brandon mispronounced it.

Same, it seemed like he even called Wax Maxillium a few times, so it might be that he was just flipping the 'W's in his head a bunch (not that I blame him. Reading in front of a large crowd after talking for a long time seems quite stressful). Plus the kid is specifically introduced with "little" M/Waxillium, which makes more sense as a way to indicate that he's a junior.

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Oltux72

+Oltux72

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Frustration said:

So Elendel actually has a military.

Debatable. They may just have deputized the forces of the Great Houses.

16 hours ago, Nesh said:

Appearently things with the Southerners aren't going well.  Tensions are "at an all-time high." 

Tensions with the Malwish. That is not synonyms with "The Southerners". The North Scadrians are not stupid and six years is long enough to discover and exploit divisions among the other side.

We have learned:

  • Waxillium did not start a war in the Basin
  • But relations within the Basin have not improved much either
  • There is trade between the North and the South (many people have medaillions)
  • There are diplomatic relations between the North and the South (ambassadors kind of imply that)
  • The Set has not gone public
  • The political structure of Elendel has not fundamentally changed
  • Elendel has developed technologically (electricity is now ubiquitous)
  • You can build a subway system under Elendel with explosives, hence bedrock is unusually shallow
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Nesh

Nesh

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Tensions with the Malwish. That is not synonyms with "The Southerners". The North Scadrians are not stupid and six years is long enough to discover and exploit divisions among the other side.

The Malwish were the Southerners they'd made contact with, and the others we know of don't seem likely to take well to the people of the North.

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Kingsdaughter613

Kingsdaughter613

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Debatable. They may just have deputized the forces of the Great Houses.

Tensions with the Malwish. That is not synonyms with "The Southerners". The North Scadrians are not stupid and six years is long enough to discover and exploit divisions among the other side.

We have learned:

  • Waxillium did not start a war in the Basin
  • But relations within the Basin have not improved much either
  • There is trade between the North and the South (many people have medaillions)
  • There are diplomatic relations between the North and the South (ambassadors kind of imply that)
  • The Set has not gone public
  • The political structure of Elendel has not fundamentally changed
  • Elendel has developed technologically (electricity is now ubiquitous)
  • You can build a subway system under Elendel with explosives, hence bedrock is unusually shallow

The last is no surprise, given it’s the Cosmere version of NYC. Right down to the Empire State and the Chrysler Building.

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cometaryorbit

cometaryorbit

Posted
Posted (edited)

The idea that the new governor is a military man does kind of imply that the military is a established thing, not just founded since BoM... but how/why? They've been a single nation with no contact with/knowledge of any others in the world for three and a half centuries. What would a military be for?

...protection against koloss maybe? I think there's a throwaway reference to a koloss warlord somewhere in Era 2.

 

EDIT: that's actually kind of weird in BOM too, with all the concern about a possible civil war: it kind of implies lots of people know how a military would work. If they've been one nation with no outside contact so long, I'd think how to run a military would be about as familiar to them as how feudal government worked is to us... maybe less so (we at least live in a world with lots of different extant political systems).

Edited by cometaryorbit
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Oltux72

+Oltux72

Posted
Posted
On 18.5.2022 at 11:05 PM, cometaryorbit said:

The idea that the new governor is a military man does kind of imply that the military is a established thing, not just founded since BoM... but how/why? They've been a single nation with no contact with/knowledge of any others in the world for three and a half centuries. What would a military be for?

The are not a single nation in a political sense. Each city is independent. We are also shown that the Elendel constablury has access to military weapons.

On 18.5.2022 at 11:05 PM, cometaryorbit said:

...protection against koloss maybe? I think there's a throwaway reference to a koloss warlord somewhere in Era 2.

One noble house against another house. The nobles have troops. The Northern Scadrians take the notion of aristocracy seriously. They are not just rich people with old-fashioned titles for show. They rule. Up to including having armed forces of their own. The Basin is not a democracy.
Again Scadrial is an analog of Earth, not the Western World.

 

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cometaryorbit

cometaryorbit

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2022 at 4:26 AM, Oltux72 said:

The are not a single nation in a political sense. Each city is independent. We are also shown that the Elendel constablury has access to military weapons.

One noble house against another house. The nobles have troops. The Northern Scadrians take the notion of aristocracy seriously. They are not just rich people with old-fashioned titles for show. They rule. Up to including having armed forces of their own. The Basin is not a democracy.
Again Scadrial is an analog of Earth, not the Western World.

 

I am pretty sure Steris says in BoM that Elendel's trade policies are aimed at "maintaining a single nation in the Basin" though. The cities have separate governments but things like the railways are done by Elendel - I think the situation is in between true independent nations and a single nation-state in the modern sense, more like a league or confederation with one strongly dominant member. But the organization doesn't seem very formalized.

It's not a democracy but it is a republic, not a pure aristocracy; trade guilds have votes & representatives in the Senate, not just the nobles.

Maybe there were house wars in the past? But that doesn't really fit the feel I get... I figured their troops were vs bandits and koloss.

 

EDIT: the way it's discussed actually makes it sound to me that this is a relatively new issue, perhaps because the infrastructure is now developed enough for Elendel to exercise effective economic control. I'd expect the inter-city setup to be more formalized if serious conflicts had occurred in the past.

Edited by cometaryorbit
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Oltux72

+Oltux72

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I am pretty sure Steris says in BoM that Elendel's trade policies are aimed at "maintaining a single nation in the Basin" though. The cities have separate governments but things like the railways are done by Elendel - I think the situation is in between true independent nations and a single nation-state in the modern sense, more like a league or confederation with one strongly dominant member. But the organization doesn't seem very formalized.

Culturally they are a nation. They share language, currency, ideology and religion.

11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

It's not a democracy but it is a republic, not a pure aristocracy; trade guilds have votes & representatives in the Senate, not just the nobles.

They also have family estates and stuff.

11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Maybe there were house wars in the past? But that doesn't really fit the feel I get... I figured their troops were vs bandits and koloss.

House Tekiel had true armed forces mentioned in Alloy of Law

11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

 

EDIT: the way it's discussed actually makes it sound to me that this is a relatively new issue, perhaps because the infrastructure is now developed enough for Elendel to exercise effective economic control. I'd expect the inter-city setup to be more formalized if serious conflicts had occurred in the past.

If I play armchair strategist, then I have to say that before railroads Elendel is invincible. It sits on the mouth of the only major river.

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cometaryorbit

cometaryorbit

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Culturally they are a nation. They share language, currency, ideology and religion.

Good point... but I think Steris is using nation in the political sense, I will have to look up the quote.

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

They also have family estates and stuff.

Sure, but I don't think that's incompatible with being a republic... it might be analogous to the senatorial class in the Roman Republic.

Elendel's government strikes me as a lot like the Roman Republic before it started to go imperial ... where the patricians and especially the senatorial class held most power (both political and wealth), but there were the tribunes of the plebs/plebeian assembly to give the common people some representation and protection. With maybe a bit of British House of Lords/House of Commons in the mix, but the lack of a monarch makes it look to me more like the Roman system. Although the lack of slavery makes it more mid 19th century Britain ish so...

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

House Tekiel had true armed forces mentioned in Alloy of Law

Isn't that in a context of being against highwaymen/robbers though? I will have to look up the quote

I am not questioning the presence of armed forces ... only whether there have been any wars (with organized military forces on both sides, vs operating against bandits or koloss) since the Catacendre.

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

If I play armchair strategist, then I have to say that before railroads Elendel is invincible. It sits on the mouth of the only major river.

Oh probably... plus it's just so huge population wise... but that's not really what I'm getting at.

I will search my SOS and BOM ebooks but the picture I get is...

- Spook ruled the Basin for a century and stepped down; after that they intentionally rejected any really unified rule, at least by a single person. (This at least is clearly stated.)

- Elendel retained a kind of "primacy" and 'soft' authority but did not directly govern the other cities, at least in local/internal matters.

- it's not really clear how inter-city issues are decided, or at least how they were before railways etc. gave Elendel de facto control

- it seems implied that the tensions that the Set is inflaming have to do with railways etc giving Elendel more control than it historically had

It seems to me to be implied that the tensions are (relatively) new which doesn't leave a lot of room for wars IMO.

Edited by cometaryorbit
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Oltux72

+Oltux72

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Sure, but I don't think that's incompatible with being a republic... it might be analogous to the senatorial class in the Roman Republic.

Now what exactly is a republic? The city of Elendel? For sure. The immediate area around Elendel? Maybe. Estates in the far outback? It was my understanding that the country holdings of a noble house are truly theirs. They are the government there.

16 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Elendel's government strikes me as a lot like the Roman Republic before it started to go imperial ... where the patricians and especially the senatorial class held most power (both political and wealth), but there were the tribunes of the plebs/plebeian assembly to give the common people some representation and protection. With maybe a bit of British House of Lords/House of Commons in the mix, but the lack of a monarch makes it look to me more like the Roman system.

Right. Unfortunately we do not know the early history of the Basin under Spook.

16 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Isn't that in a context of being against highwaymen/robbers though? I will have to look up the quote

I am not questioning the presence of armed forces ... only whether there have been any wars (with organized military forces on both sides, vs operating against bandits or koloss) since the Catacendre.

There is an area in between that, like one house doing raids on another house's mines or transports. It looks to me like they are in that paramilitary range.

16 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

- Spook ruled the Basin for a century and stepped down; after that they intentionally rejected any really unified rule, at least by a single person. (This at least is clearly stated.)

But did councils already existed under Spook?

16 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

- it seems implied that the tensions that the Set is inflaming have to do with railways etc giving Elendel more control than it historically had

Or making its control more important. Before railways trade just was more expensive and thus less in volume and worth.

16 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

It seems to me to be implied that the tensions are (relatively) new which doesn't leave a lot of room for wars IMO.

For war between cities, yes.
For war between houses, no.

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