Fullborn vs 4th ideal radiant

[cometaryorbit]

I do think a Fullborn is more powerful than nearly any below-Shard-level being in the Cosmere, but I don't think Feruchemical Steel speed is necessarily as much of an auto-win as generally assumed.

Lurchers/Coinshots/Mistborn can react to very fast-moving objects, so I think that Investiture-power-use reaction times can be much faster than physical ones. Scadrian magic tends to be relatively low-investiture compared to Rosharan, so Investiture resisting other Investiture may not be all that much help here. Jasnah might actually have a chance vs. the Lord Ruler (I am not sure f-Gold would protect you from turning to fire, and would atium shadows show anything useful there)?

The Lord Ruler probably didn't have Bendalloy, Chromium, or Nicrosil. He was also dependent on his metalminds to survive; I don't know if Soulcasting them would be easier or harder than Soulcasting him directly. Depending on how Division works, maybe it could destroy them? Similarly for an artificial Fullborn or near-Fullborn like Marsh or (possibly) Era 2 Kelsier.

A hypothetical non-Hemalurgic Era 2 Fullborn, with all metals and no "remove/destroy the spike/metalmind to instantly kill" weakness, would be even scarier.

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

So something else is going on, it's not just steel, it's more powerful than it should be.

It's specifically said that Marasi "tapped everything". Massive levels of F-gold healing would hold her body together without needing A-pewter toughness.

I don't think normal steel speed, without other powers, is as extreme as usually stated on here. Even Paalm, being a kandra, was presumably tougher than a pure Steel Twinborn would be.

[+Bzhydack]

5 hours ago, Frustration said:

Or you have four guns.

Is mot about moving guns. Is about mechanical delay in fireing mechanism. From normal perspective this have small meaning, but from super-speed perspective...

5 hours ago, Frustration said:

And on top of that Palm had acess to some strange magic so I don't think using her as an example is fair.

She have, yes, but not in this terms. This magic is strange only because of hiding her from Harmony, but in terms of physical function this is still Allomancy/Feruchemy.

 

5 hours ago, Frustration said:

I don't think it would work on spren, as Chromium doesn't seem to be able to affect souls. Now it might be possible as a chromium equivalent to pushing on trace metals, but with Spren's additional investiture adding resistance I don't know if it will be a reasonable accomplishment.

Additionally Plate would resist having it's stormlight drained, and assuming it only needs to use light to repair will insulate the Radiant as well.

You missed two most important WoBs

Quote

Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)
#5 Share Copy

Play/Pau

Questioner

If you were a Leecher, could you destroy a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to RAFO that for now, let's just say that it would be incredibly difficult if it were possible, and I'm not going to even say if it is. But that kind of power... 

Questioner

Let's just say they were burning duralumin as well.

Brandon Sanderson

Let's just say that the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard. And Investiture resists other forms of Investiture, so.

Quote

Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)
#10 Share Copy

 

Questioner (paraphrased)

If a Leecher was holding a Shardbearer and burning [chromium], would the Shardbearer be able to summon their Blade?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No.

Form first we can assume that some effect on Spren A-Chromium should have, even if would not be able to destroy him/her. More interesting is second one. Should work also on Living Shardblades, so if A-Chromium wouold be able to hurt Spren and force to turn back into standard form, Radiant may not be able to summon him again. Of course, we dont really have knowledge about this, but this is something similar what happened in Tower.

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Lurchers/Coinshots/Mistborn can react to very fast-moving objects, so I think that Investiture-power-use reaction times can be much faster than physical ones. Scadrian magic tends to be relatively low-investiture compared to Rosharan, so Investiture resisting other Investiture may not be all that much help here. Jasnah might actually have a chance vs. the Lord Ruler (I am not sure f-Gold would protect you from turning to fire, and would atium shadows show anything useful there)?

Nicrosil Compounding can help with that. Also, constant Gold Compounding should have also effect here (it works by reverting you to Spiritual Ideal, and Ideal for body isnt being fire ;-) can also heal Shardblade Wounds)

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I do think a Fullborn is more powerful than nearly any below-Shard-level being in the Cosmere, but I don't think Feruchemical Steel speed is necessarily as much of an auto-win as generally assumed.

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I don't think normal steel speed, without other powers, is as extreme as usually stated on here. Even Paalm, being a kandra, was presumably tougher than a pure Steel Twinborn would be.

But Feruchemy protects user from negative effects of using those powers. Marasi tapped everything, yes, but that was after she uses speed first time. First, in tent, she just tapped steel, and moved with supersonic.

 

[EmulatonStromenkiin]

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

But Feruchemy protects user from negative effects of using those powers. Marasi tapped everything, yes, but that was after she uses speed first time. First, in tent, she just tapped steel, and moved with supersonic.

Base feruchemy does, but when compounding you can generate enough heat to burn yourself(there's a WOB somewhere about it), and if steel compounding you can burn up from air resistance. There are multiple reasons compounding is dangerous

[Quivil]

9 hours ago, Nameless said:

Right, but Marasi didn't have A-pewter. She didn't have any metals at all, so she could go supersonic without needing A-pewter to keep her together.\

She does have F-pewter

[CryoZenith]

On 07.02.2022 at 4:57 PM, HSuperLee said:

Now, that said, I understand that some people find these kind of discussions fun, but I'm just trying to point out that any conclusions drawn from them are barely even theoretical. If everyone is okay with that, alright. But we've have a lot of discussions like this on the forum, and I'd be a lying if I said I don't occasionally participate in them as well. I'm just hoping everyone realizes by now that they are endless.

I think that if 1v1 discussions like this are genuinely useless (from a practical/stats scaling perspective, ofc they can be fun) then Brandon has failed in a sense. I think, at its core, what differentiates hard magic fantasy from soft magic fantasy is that limitations should be clear enough that readers should be able to predict the outcome of a particular fight in advance without hindsight information, and only get it wrong because the characters employ unusual degrees of tactical cleverness. So, as it pertains here, I think there should exist such a thing as a "fact of the matter" as to whether fullborn are averagely stronger than 4th ideal radiants or not. That one of them would, indeed, win out over the other most of the time. It's like with chess. We say that a 2000 ELO player is stronger than a 1800 ELO player. Sure, the 2000 ELO player may have underslept the previous night, or they might have a hangover, or they might lag midgame and get flagged... nobody is denying any of those possibilities, but it still means something to say that the 2000 ELO player is stronger.

On 07.02.2022 at 5:11 PM, Quantus said:

Ah, ok you sold me, that is a pretty solid defence and attack.  A Lightweaver could probably match it if they were already in the Cognitive but the elsecaller just has to survive long enough to transition and then the Fullborn both cannot Reach them and cannot run away*.  Unless the fullborn is clever or precognitive enough to immediately compound the crap out of something to maintain their Investments (ideally flaring their Identity) the Elsecaller might even be able to Soulcast them directly by accessing their flame.

Hm, interesting. I never thought about that, but it makes sense. Normally you resist Investiture by having a lot of Investiture, but sometimes, specific arcanas have specific counters, and it makes sense realmatically that having more Identity would make you harder to soulcast. Good catch, I wonder if this will ever come up in a real fight, because it sounds really clever.

[Frustration]

5 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Is mot about moving guns. Is about mechanical delay in fireing mechanism. From normal perspective this have small meaning, but from super-speed perspective...

We don't see that scene from her perspective though, it was from someone at normal speed.

5 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

She have, yes, but not in this terms. This magic is strange only because of hiding her from Harmony, but in terms of physical function this is still Allomancy/Feruchemy.

She can also telepathically talk to Wax, and use those spikes as blessings. Additionally this is the first time we see Shardmetal's used as spikes.

5 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

You missed two most important WoBs

Form first we can assume that some effect on Spren A-Chromium should have, even if would not be able to destroy him/her. More interesting is second one. Should work also on Living Shardblades, so if A-Chromium wouold be able to hurt Spren and force to turn back into standard form, Radiant may not be able to summon him again. Of course, we dont really have knowledge about this, but this is something similar what happened in Tower.

I think it would be closer to Raboniels suppression fabrial, even if it worked by touching the blade, which I doubt, it wouldn't hurt them, it would simply force them into their spren form. It took Nightblood to chip an Honorblade, I don't think even Fullborn are going to get even close to that, even if only on a spren.

5 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

But Feruchemy protects user from negative effects of using those powers. Marasi tapped everything, yes, but that was after she uses speed first time. First, in tent, she just tapped steel, and moved with supersonic.

Even with that Steel won't protect you from wind resistance, or friction. So the Bands are doing something here.

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

My friend wants to know how fast steel Compounders could possibly go, can they run up walls or over water like the Flash?

Blightsong (paraphrased)

*jokingly* Can they run through time?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Steelrunners can resist a lot things due to the power, like they can withstand the Gs they are out through, but they can't ignore wind resistance and friction. They will burn up if they start running too quickly.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Frustration

[+Bzhydack]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Even with that Steel won't protect you from wind resistance, or friction. So the Bands are doing something here.

Or maybe simply speed isnt large enough to burn Feruchemist yet. I know we have some physicists on the forum, can some of them run the math? I dont remember who they were, @therunner if im not mistaken?

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

I think it would be closer to Raboniels suppression fabrial, even if it worked by touching the blade, which I doubt it wouldn't hurt them, it would simply force them into their spren form. It took Nightblood to chip an Honorblade, I don't think even Fullborn are going to get even close to that, even if only on a spren.

So we can similar view on that matter. Probably it would not destroy Spren, but certainly would be unpleasent.

 

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

She can also telepathically talk to Wax, and use those spikes as blessings.. Additionally this is the first time we see Shardmetal's used as spikes.

Yeah, but still nothing is wierd in her Feruchemical abilities

[CryoZenith]

25 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Or maybe simply speed isnt large enough to burn Feruchemist yet. I know we have some physicists on the forum, can some of them run the math? I dont remember who they were, @therunner if im not mistaken?

Disclaimer, not a physicist, but the maximum velocity of a human free-falling head-first with aerodynamic clothing is around 200 mph. We know, empirically, that moving at 200 mph is not enough to damage your skin. So a Fullborn can move at speeds around 200 mph without burning, even if tapping speed doesn't protect you from friction drag at all. Is 200 mph fast enough to defeat a radiant's reaction speed (which, as far as we know about radiant powers, is not superhuman, or at the very least, is not orders of magnitude superhuman)? Probably yes, since 200 mph is close to the speed of crossbow bolts.

[Frustration]

30 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Or maybe simply speed isnt large enough to burn Feruchemist yet. I know we have some physicists on the forum, can some of them run the math? I dont remember who they were, @therunner if im not mistaken?

Yeah I don't know enough to calculate that.

30 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Yeah, but still nothing is wierd in her Feruchemical abilities

Well one spike simultaiously acts as a blessing, hides her from Harmony, and allows her to steal powers. So there is something weird, whether or not it affects the power itself is yet to be seen but there is something weird.

2 minutes ago, CryoZenith said:

Disclaimer, not a physicist, but the maximum velocity of a human free-falling head-first with aerodynamic clothing is around 200 mph. We know, empirically, that moving at 200 mph is not enough to damage your skin. So a Fullborn can move at speeds around 200 mph without burning, even if tapping speed doesn't protect you from friction drag at all. Is 200 mph fast enough to defeat a radiant's reaction speed (which, as far as we know about radiant powers, is not superhuman, or at the very least, is not orders of magnitude superhuman)? Probably yes, since 200 mph is close to the speed of crossbow bolts.

Doesn't it really hurt to go from that to spread eagle?

[CryoZenith]

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Doesn't it really hurt to go from that to spread eagle?

I don't think I ever went above 130 mph while skydiving, but if going horizontal there feels fine, which it does, I would assume 200 mph is at least not debilitating (but yes, I am aware that at those speeds surface drag scales with the square of the speed, not linearly).

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, CryoZenith said:

I don't think I ever went above 130 mph while skydiving, but if going horizontal there feels fine, which it does, I would assume 200 mph is at least not debilitating (but yes, I am aware that at those speeds surface drag scales with the square of the speed, not linearly).

So 200 mph is realtivly safe, might hurt a little bit but it would be so little as to be a non-factor.

But if drag increases with the square of speed than going even close to sonic speeds is beyond what steel can do.

[CryoZenith]

Yeah, sonic speeds are roughly 760 mph, which would be 14 times more drag than 200 mph. But nothing in SA makes me think you actually *need* to be that fast to take radiants by surprise.

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, CryoZenith said:

Yeah, sonic speeds are roughly 760 mph, which would be 14 times more drag than 200 mph. But nothing in SA makes me think you actually *need* to be that fast to take radiants by surprise.

Orders with Gavitation can fall in any direction and can overcome terminal velocity.

[CryoZenith]

Sure, that's true. It would have to depend on how far the two combatants are relative to each other when the duel begins. If the distance you have to cover is large enough, then I can see you coming with enough time to react no matter how fast you're going. That's basically the principle of fighter plane dogfights, the speeds involved are often sonic but since the "battlefield" is miles across there's wiggle room. The question of "who would win a race when the racetrack is long between a fullborn and a skybreaker" is pretty trivial, the skybreaker wins every time. But that's different from the question of whether a fullborn can strike a skybreaker before the skybreaker even realizes what's happening at say a 30 foot distance.

Edited February 9, 2022 by CryoZenith

[NameIess]

14 hours ago, Frustration said:

I won't say that's impossible, but I feel that's outside steel's normal limit.

Edit: @Nameless Steel/steel would obviously have more speed to compress therefore steel has a reasonable limit otherwise the steel compounder would blow past the Steel/pewter as the mild boost pewter gives in comparison would not be able to overcome it.

Again, Brandon specified a short race, and didn't say if the A-pewter steelrunner would have to store for 50 years straight in order to win. He never mentioned a top speed, just that theoretically, A-pewter F-steel would let you reach higher top speeds than a steel compounder.

13 hours ago, Frustration said:

And on top of that Palm had acess to some strange magic so I don't think using her as an example is fair.

Every example we see points to F-steel's speed limit being way too high for anyone to react to, and no WoB contradicts that. Just because some of the examples are a bit weird doesn't mean we should ignore them just because we think F-steel would be too powerful otherwise.

As for stormlight leaking once you begin breathing, Kaladin has just been talking and was breathing normally. He had to consciously banish the stormlight.

10 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Lurchers/Coinshots/Mistborn can react to very fast-moving objects, so I think that Investiture-power-use reaction times can be much faster than physical ones.

They can't react to bullets, so far as I know. Marasi went supersonic. That's bullet speed. Maybe a herald could react to it, maybe, but a radiant will literally be unable to move, even if they reacted immediately. And what magic action could they take? soulcasting takes time, lashings are too slow. Best they could hope for is transferring into the cognitive realm before getting turned to pulp by and F-pewter punch or getting their powers disabled by A-chromium.

10 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Scadrian magic tends to be relatively low-investiture compared to Rosharan, so Investiture resisting other Investiture may not be all that much help here. Jasnah might actually have a chance vs. the Lord Ruler (I am not sure f-Gold would protect you from turning to fire, and would atium shadows show anything useful there)?

The bands of mourning are only slightly less invested than a shardblade:

(spoiler for length)

Spoiler

Questioner

You've said that Shardblades can be made in other magic systems. So if it's not like a Shardblade from Roshar, what makes it a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

The "Shard" refers to the heavy Investiture of a Shard of Adonalsium. Most of what you’ll see will see are the Roshar ones, but it is technically possible to make them out of the other magic systems. It's going to be a heavily invested magical weapon, is kind of how I would define it.

Questioner

So are the Bands [of Mourning] one?

Brandon Sanderson

I would not call them one, but they are close. They're not Invested enough.

Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)

A fullborn could simply tap some metals, burn some other metals, and become practically invincible to soulcasting. TLR in particular is a splinter and a savant. He's invested enough to survive as a cognitive shadow forever. Soulcasting him would probably be like soulcasting a herald or fused, which we don't see Jasnah do even when she had infinite stormlight.

10 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

It's specifically said that Marasi "tapped everything". Massive levels of F-gold healing would hold her body together without needing A-pewter toughness.

I don't think normal steel speed, without other powers, is as extreme as usually stated on here. Even Paalm, being a kandra, was presumably tougher than a pure Steel Twinborn would be.

Yes, F-gold would have kept her together, but 1. she didn't feel her bones breaking and instantly reknitting and 2. F-gold is the other of the two most important traits for a fullborn to have stored. Paalm was not a compounder, and did not have access to infinite stores of speed. A compounder wouldn't have to ration stores, so would go faster, as I doubt Paalm was going at maximum speed constantly. She would have run out way before she did.

4 hours ago, Tani said:

She does have F-pewter

F-pewter doesn't increase durability.

Also, @Frustration, you seem to be leaving out steel's protective effect in your calculations. We can safely assume that F-steel protects you from harm for higher than the normal speed limit without burning up. Marasi didn't cause fire around her when she went supersonic, and I don't think that tapping any feruchemical store would prevent that, so... we can assume that supersonic without burning up is easily possible.

All this said, this thread is turning into another Scadrial vs. Roshar argument. Think about this: if radiants can easily beat even a fullborn, the most powerful thing that scadrial has ever seen, why do they need power suppressors? How will any conflict between them have narrative tension if Roshar has literally every advantage?

Edited February 9, 2022 by Nameless

[CryoZenith]

23 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Also, @Frustration, you seem to be leaving out steel's protective effect in your calculations. We can safely assume that F-steel protects you from harm for higher than the normal speed limit without burning up. Marasi didn't cause fire around her when she went supersonic, and I don't think that tapping any feruchemical store would prevent that, so... we can assume that supersonic without burning up is easily possible.

How so? Brandon explicitly said that the protective effects of F-steel are about internal damage from high G acceleration, not about external damage from surface drag, and that surface drag can explicitly burn you up. What Marasi did was special.

[NameIess]

Just now, CryoZenith said:

How so? Brandon explicitly said that the protective effects of F-steel are about internal damage from high G acceleration, not about external damage from surface drag, and that surface drag can explicitly burn you up. What Marasi did was special.

Okay then. Marasi can go supersonic without burning up. Therefore anyone can. She tapped metalminds, and no trait from metalminds prevents heat due to friction.

[Frustration]

54 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Again, Brandon specified a short race, and didn't say if the A-pewter steelrunner would have to store for 50 years straight in order to win. He never mentioned a top speed, just that theoretically, A-pewter F-steel would let you reach higher top speeds than a steel compounder.

He never said anything about them having the same amount of speed, the short is to specify that Steel/steel will outlast Steel/pewter, as they can replenish their stores. Where Steel/pewter cannot.

54 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Also, @Frustration, you seem to be leaving out steel's protective effect in your calculations. We can safely assume that F-steel protects you from harm for higher than the normal speed limit without burning up. Marasi didn't cause fire around her when she went supersonic, and I don't think that tapping any feruchemical store would prevent that, so... we can assume that supersonic without burning up is easily possible.

Brandon has said that there is a point at which feruchemy will no longer protect you.

Spoiler

Questioner

I had a question about [steel] Ferrings. So, I saw that you had mentioned in a previous talk that you could only move so fast with air resistance, like eventually you'd start burning up. If you were to become an Edgedancer as well?

Brandon Sanderson

If you can combine those two powers, Edgedancing and [steel] Ferring, then you are able to do things that would circumvent that restriction. Yes, indeed.

Skyward San Francisco signing (Nov. 8, 2018)

Questioner (paraphrased)

My friend wants to know how fast steel Compounders could possibly go, can they run up walls or over water like the Flash?

Blightsong (paraphrased)

*jokingly* Can they run through time?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Steelrunners can resist a lot things due to the power, like they can withstand the Gs they are out through, but they can't ignore wind resistance and friction. They will burn up if they start running too quickly.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

 

54 minutes ago, Nameless said:

All this said, this thread is turning into another Scadrial vs. Roshar argument. Think about this: if radiants can easily beat even a fullborn, the most powerful thing that scadrial has ever seen, why do they need power suppressors? How will any conflict between them have narrative tension if Roshar has literally every advantage?

I can't say about anyone else but I'm far more intrested in the steel speed cap debate than anything.

24 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Okay then. Marasi can go supersonic without burning up. Therefore anyone can. She tapped metalminds, and no trait from metalminds prevents heat due to friction.

Marasi was also at Mistpoint, and Mists are cold, and likely have a high specific heat so they can take the extra.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

He never said anything about them having the same amount of speed, the short is to specify that Steel/steel will outlast Steel/pewter, as they can replenish their stores. Where Steel/pewter cannot.

Yeah. And nothing he says indicates that it wouldn't take 50 decades of storing for the thug steelrunner to get enough speed to outrun the steel compounder in a short race.

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Brandon has said that there is a point at which feruchemy will no longer protect you.

I don't debate that. However, Marasi didn't reach that speed, because 1. No fire, and 2. She didn't feel intense pain as her body ripped itself apart and then healed instantly.

 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Yeah. And nothing he says indicates that it wouldn't take 50 decades of storing for the thug steelrunner to get enough speed to outrun the steel compounder in a short race.

Brandon tends to limit his questions to reasonable amounts, when he does talk about extremes he makes it obvious.

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I don't debate that. However, Marasi didn't reach that speed, because 1. No fire, and 2. She didn't feel intense pain as her body ripped itself apart and then healed instantly.

Sorry edit.

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Marasi was also at Mistpoint, and Mists are cold, and likely have a high specific heat so they can take the extra.

 

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

Brandon tends to limit his questions to reasonable amounts, when he does talk about extremes he makes it obvious.

Not always. He sometimes clarifies it, but specifying that it would be over a short race does that fine. He gets the point, which is that A-pewter burners have a higher max speed, across, while also emphasizing that a compounder is still faster in any other situation.

12 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Marasi was also at Mistpoint, and Mists are cold, and likely have a high specific heat so they can take the extra.

Mists would still have been insanely hot if she was going too fast. She didn't notice that, so no.

[Frustration]

16 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Not always. He sometimes clarifies it, but specifying that it would be over a short race does that fine. He gets the point, which is that A-pewter burners have a higher max speed, across, while also emphasizing that a compounder is still faster in any other situation.

I disagree but I'll allow that it's possible.

16 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Mists would still have been insanely hot if she was going too fast. She didn't notice that, so no.

That's not how heat works.

Heat is defined by kinetic energy, every substance has a specific heat measured in joules per grams time degrees Kelvin.

Basically certain substances need more heat in order to raise by the same temperature.

So iron has a specific heat of .45 j/g*k while water has a specific heat of 4.184 j/g*k

Menaing in order to increase the temperature of 1 gram of iron by 1 degree Kelvin you need to add .45 Joules of heat, but if you wanted to increase 1 gram of water by 1 degree Kelvin you would need 4.184 Joules of heat. 

So even if exposed to the same heat iron would experience a greater increase in temperature. So if Mist has a really high specific heat they would experience a small change in temperature.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That's not how heat works.

Heat is defined by kinetic energy, every substance has a specific heat measured in joules per grams time degrees Kelvin.

Basically certain substances need more heat in order to raise by the same temperature.

So iron has a specific heat of .45 j/g*k while water has a specific heat of 4.184 j/g*k

So even if exposed to the same heat iron would experience a greater increase in temperature. So if Mist has a really high specific heat they would experience a small change in temperature.

How hot would air have to be to have serious negative effects on people? How much kinetic energy would that take? Surely Marasi would've noticed that the mist was at least uncomfortably hot or warm. Also, she didn't notice the mist until she started flying, meaning there wasn't enough of it initially to be immediately noticeable, meaning it couldn't have insulated her from the heat.

[Frustration]

10 minutes ago, Nameless said:

How hot would air have to be to have serious negative effects on people? How much kinetic energy would that take? Surely Marasi would've noticed that the mist was at least uncomfortably hot or warm. Also, she didn't notice the mist until she started flying, meaning there wasn't enough of it initially to be immediately noticeable, meaning it couldn't have insulated her from the heat.

If it had a specific heat closer to 18KJ/g*K Marasi wouldn't even notice.

Given how hard it is to melt shardblades it could be something like 180KJ/g*K

Edited February 9, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

If it had a specific heat closer to 18KJ/g*K Marasi wouldn't even notice.

We don't even know that Marasi was making mist when she first started moving.

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Given how hard it is to melt shardblades it could need something like 180KJ/g*K

That comparison is wrong on so many levels. We've never seen someone trying to heat up a shardblade. For all we know, it could heat up normally, but simply not melt. We don't know if shardblade mist has the same specific heat. And we don't know that Preservation's mist has the same specific heat as Shardblade mist. Seriously, what you're saying is like saying "Since titanium is really hard to melt, Helium must be really hard to heat up." Without knowing the specific heat of titatnium. Completely different forms, completely different elements, and we don't even know the specific heat of sharblades. You can't compare them like that.