Frustration Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 15 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: Also, some aluminum alloys (used in guns in Era 2 Scadrial) are investiture-inert, but not all, apparently. So given the idea that Era 1 atium was actually an alloy, I think Soulcasting Era 1 atium might be possible again. But I don't think this is resolvable without either a new WoB or more information in The Lost Metal. You can soulcast aluminum though, atium you cannot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Frustration said: You can soulcast aluminum though, atium you cannot. Well to clarify, you can for instance turn wood into aluminum no problem, but need a TON of Investiture to turn aluminum into wood. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Pathfinder said: Well to clarify, you can for instance turn wood into aluminum no problem, but need a TON of Investiture to turn aluminum into wood. Yes, thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) On 3/12/2022 at 0:32 PM, Frustration said: You can soulcast aluminum though, atium you cannot. I was more talking about the idea that whether special Investiture properties of a metal are kept in its alloys might not be a straightforward percentage-based thing. And yeah, soulcasting *to* aluminum works fine, but not *from* aluminum. On 3/12/2022 at 10:48 AM, Nameless said: Making Atium into an alloy doesn't get rid of the Investiture in it, it only slightly dilutes it slightly. Teleporting like the Pursuer wouldn't help. Kaladin was able to fight evenly against him, and F-steel would let you go faster than the Pursuer's maximum speed. In a sustained fight, I totally agree that level of teleportation wouldn't work - but it might allow a Surgebinder to set up a surprise attack, depending on how "instant" the appearance is. Edited March 14, 2022 by cometaryorbit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 minute ago, cometaryorbit said: In a sustained fight, I totally agree that level of teleportation wouldn't work - but it might allow a Surgebinder to set up a surprise attack, depending on how "instant" the appearance is. Surprise attacks might work. If the Fullborn doesn't tap gold healing constantly like Miles. And if F-chromium doesn't give spider-sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 37 minutes ago, Nameless said: Surprise attacks might work. If the Fullborn doesn't tap gold healing constantly like Miles. And if F-chromium doesn't give spider-sense. Well, this would be really dependent on the timeline. TLR didn't have chromium, I don't think, but that's pre-Radiants so... An Era 2+ Fullborn would have Chromium, but post book 5 (contemporary with Era 2) Radiants might be able to use something like the Fused's Stormlight-draining weapon... would that stop gold healing? More and more, I'm thinking this question isn't really answerable yet, except maybe for Bondsmiths (I do think the "heal the floor instead" Connection trick would make Feruchemy/Compounding fail, but even that isn't actually proved). We don't know enough about how some of the "anti-magical" options that Roshar is developing would interact, and we don't know enough about how several of the relevant Surges (Division and Transportation especially) work for Radiants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: Well, this would be really dependent on the timeline. TLR didn't have chromium, I don't think, but that's pre-Radiants so... An Era 2+ Fullborn would have Chromium, but post book 5 (contemporary with Era 2) Radiants might be able to use something like the Fused's Stormlight-draining weapon... would that stop gold healing? I don't know. It might not be able to drain their investiture into a gemstone. 3 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: More and more, I'm thinking this question isn't really answerable yet, except maybe for Bondsmiths (I do think the "heal the floor instead" Connection trick would make Feruchemy/Compounding fail, but even that isn't actually proved). We don't know enough about how some of the "anti-magical" options that Roshar is developing would interact, and we don't know enough about how several of the relevant Surges (Division and Transportation especially) work for Radiants. Yeah, we don't know a ton about it, but I doubt any of the surges we don't know much about will be able to let a Radiant win against an enemy with the level of speed, strength, senses, healing, and intelligence that a fullborn has. The anti-lights might work better, but the real game-changer would be power suppressors, I'm thinking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Nameless said: I don't know. It might not be able to drain their investiture into a gemstone. Yeah, it's unknown how the 'anti-magical' bits would work with Scadrian magic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adonlasium Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 you can try soulcasting or lashing them but they just burn aluminum or duralumin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcclure7 Posted May 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 On 2/8/2022 at 8:45 AM, Frustration said: How much breath does he have? Even assuming he had some, he has to use that up constantly, and he can't make any more. And breath is one of the attributes he's almost certain to not have in large amounts unless he really likes deep sea diving. You don't understand compounding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: You don't understand compounding. What about compounding do I not understand? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmulatonStromenkiin Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Frustration said: What about compounding do I not understand? you can have infinite of anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 Just now, EmulatonStromenkiin said: you can have infinite of anything. No more than you can have infinate steel pushes. Calling it infinate is both innacurate and missleading. If you compounded a full steel metalmind you get the same amount of speed you would get steel pushes. You don't have infinate, and it requires both time and resources to get it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmulatonStromenkiin Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 Just now, Frustration said: No more than you can have infinate steel pushes. Calling it infinate is both innacurate and missleading. If you compounded a full steel metalmind you get the same amount of speed you would get steel pushes. You don't have infinate, and it requires both time and resources to get it. okay, yes there are practiacal limitations. the point is, he could have essentially as much breath as he wanted. burning metalminds of your own has a multiplicative effect, so with a few resources and a little effort, you could get plenty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 Just now, EmulatonStromenkiin said: okay, yes there are practiacal limitations. the point is, he could have essentially as much breath as he wanted. burning metalminds of your own has a multiplicative effect, so with a few resources and a little effort, you could get plenty. But why would he want any? Breath is litterally useless unless you are really intrested in diving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmulatonStromenkiin Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Frustration said: But why would he want any? Breath is litterally useless unless you are really intrested in diving. or if you are obsessively prepared for bad situations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said: or if you are obsessively prepared for bad situations. Then you would create stores of gold because not only does it allow you to survive without breath but it also can heal your other injuries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmulatonStromenkiin Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 Just now, Frustration said: Then you would create stores of gold because not only does it allow you to survive without breath but it also can heal your other injuries. You are obviously not one who obsesively prepares for bad situations. you can do both. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said: You are obviously not one who obsesively prepares for bad situations. you can do both. I definatly prepare for the worst situations. Every second you spend making a cadmium mind is a second you aren't making a goldmind, which is superior in every way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 To be fair, using breath is probably way more efficient (in terms of time to store in normal Feruchemy/quantity of metal needed in Compounding) than using gold to survive without air. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcclure7 Posted May 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Frustration said: What about compounding do I not understand? Compound by definition is a closed loop system. Meaning a compound can store as he burns and then burn the store so he never runs out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 37 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: Compound by definition is a closed loop system. Meaning a compound can store as he burns and then burn the store so he never runs out. Only so long as they have the metal. Once burned the metalmind ceases to exist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 I wonder what the practical upper limits of Compounding (based on a reasonable mass of metal) are. How long could Miles survive swimming in lava with a stomach full of charged gold? Could late-HoA Marsh have walked all the way to South Scadrial, or would surviving the sun that long have taken more gold than he could carry in practice? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmulatonStromenkiin Posted May 18, 2022 Report Share Posted May 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Frustration said: I definatly prepare for the worst situations. Every second you spend making a cadmium mind is a second you aren't making a goldmind, which is superior in every way. you can do both at the same time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted May 19, 2022 Report Share Posted May 19, 2022 2 hours ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said: you can do both at the same time. You CAN but why? Gold does everything Cadmium does and then some. It would be like storing a-pewter for the speed benefit, it's so much easier to just use f-steel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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