panheadbolt

Theory with the Recreance and Honor's Splintering

15 posts in this topic

We know Honor was splintered around the Recreance and that the Recreance was prompted by that generation of Radiants finding out humans were the real Voidbringers, and at that point Tanavast was overtaken by Honor's Intent and was also fighting Odium and so wasn't mentally stable enough to tell the Radiants that they were still morally okay.

So what if the Radiants, having not a massive amount of guidance on how shards work, picked up on the fact he was fighting another god from his "ravings", and also noticed how he'd become obsessed with all oaths, good or bad and assumed that this was a consequence of the radiants existing.

So what if they decided that they should break their oaths because they thought the oaths were what was draining Tanavast's sanity?

Give just how powerful Surgebinding is, we can assume that 9/10 orders of radiant, with most of each type spren probably bonded, all releasing the Investiture they had (kinda) borrowed from Honor did something like in Warbreaker, where

Spoiler

Vasher gives his Breath to Denth to kill him

The Stormfather also backs this up:

Spoiler

“Regardless, I . . . understand now as I never did before. The ancient Radiants didn’t abandon their oaths out of pettiness. They tried to protect the world. I blame them for their weakness, their broken oaths. But I also understand. "

The Radiants didn't abandon their oaths because they thought they weren't in the moral right anymore, they abandoned their oaths because they were "try(ing) to protect the world".

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I understand, the secret to the recreance is actually a different one to the one they learn in Oathbringer (something the Stormfather hints at). Though that's a small critique of your theory

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a motivation that is an interesting one, and one I dont think Ive seen before.

That still doesnt explain the Deadeyes though.  If the Radiants and their spren mutually decided that there shouldnt be radiants anymore, the spren can end the bond at any time without harm; that's why all the spren assumed Betrayal.  Instead, they "Chose" to do something Else, something that for the first time resulted in the creation of Deaeyes which hadnt existed prior to that point.

I dont know what, but I think they were looking forward and trying to make something new.  And if true then there's a decent chance Cultivation was behind it.  

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this idea!

What if it had something to do with trying to block Odium's connection to the surges. I think we know that the fused did not always have surges. They were just always reborn. Maybe it was about trying to help Honor's fight against Odium because somehow Radiant's were giving Odium more access to Roshar and let him give his fused powers and this was helping him Splinter Honor faster??

Alternatively, there are a lot of Shardblades missing... Maybe a whole bunch of shards are hidden somewhere... (Mistborn)

Spoiler

Like the Lord Ruler did with Atium. Maybe Honor was dying and they didn't want Odium to get access to readily available investiture.

 

Also... Honor broke his Oath about not residing on the same planet as another shard... Didn't he? And that is why Odium is justified in coming after him... That would weaken his intent.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kandrafish said:

... Honor broke his Oath about not residing on the same planet as another shard... Didn't he? And that is why Odium is justified in coming after him... That would weaken his intent.

No he dont. There wasnt sutch Oath, it was just idea among Shards, but only few of them decided to follow it.

If Honor would break his Oath, Odium would kill him almost immedietaly, and not need to wait untill he would be weakened over time.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

21 hours ago, Quantus said:

As a motivation that is an interesting one, and one I dont think Ive seen before.

That still doesnt explain the Deadeyes though.  If the Radiants and their spren mutually decided that there shouldnt be radiants anymore, the spren can end the bond at any time without harm; that's why all the spren assumed Betrayal.  Instead, they "Chose" to do something Else, something that for the first time resulted in the creation of Deaeyes which hadnt existed prior to that point.

I dont know what, but I think they were looking forward and trying to make something new.  And if true then there's a decent chance Cultivation was behind it.  

The deadeyes were caused by Ba-Ado-Mishram's imprisonment, which was because of the False Desolation. Any broken oaths cause the deadeyes in the modern day, as we see with Shallan and Testament.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, panheadbolt said:

 

The deadeyes were caused by Ba-Ado-Mishram's imprisonment, which was because of the False Desolation. Any broken oaths cause the deadeyes in the modern day, as we see with Shallan and Testament.

That is certainly the leading theory presented by the characters so far, but it still involves a lot of assumptions and unknowns.  I'm holding out for the real story from Maya or the Sibling or somebody actually involved.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/4/2022 at 6:42 AM, Bzhydack said:

No he dont. There wasnt sutch Oath, it was just idea among Shards, but only few of them decided to follow it.

If Honor would break his Oath, Odium would kill him almost immedietaly, and not need to wait untill he would be weakened over time.

Ok... So it was not an oath per se. I think it was more than an idea, though. It sounded like an agreement or maybe a pact and it is what Odium is using to justify his attacks on other shards.

So, you don't think that breaking an agreement with others is against the intent of Honor? That is all that I am trying to say.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Kandrafish said:

Ok... So it was not an oath per se. I think it was more than an idea, though. It sounded like an agreement or maybe a pact and it is what Odium is using to justify his attacks on other shards.

So, you don't think that breaking an agreement with others is against the intent of Honor? That is all that I am trying to say.

It was an idea that was floated, not everyone saw it as an agreement, Honor didn't.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Frustration said:

It was an idea that was floated, not everyone saw it as an agreement, Honor didn't.

This, pretty much. Honor's Intent isn't about taking up oaths. His Intent is about respecting the oaths you do accept to take up. If he never agreed to avoiding Investing into another Shard's world, then he's not breaking anything by doing so, oath or agreement.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the recreance was radical environmentalism.  Spren and stormlight are tied to the natural eco-system of roshar, the radiants were depleting them.  They realized they were an invasive species and like the stormfather said "tried to protect the world".

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ConfusedCow said:

I think the recreance was radical environmentalism.  Spren and stormlight are tied to the natural eco-system of roshar, the radiants were depleting them.  They realized they were an invasive species and like the stormfather said "tried to protect the world".

Stormlight has a cycle, that would be like us depleting the stores of water. And what spren were they depleting?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are depleting stores of water. I think that the true spren are supposed to naturally bond greatshells and elevate them to a final form. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, ConfusedCow said:

We are depleting stores of water.

No we really aren't, anything we use is released back into the enviroment.

39 minutes ago, ConfusedCow said:

I think that the true spren are supposed to naturally bond greatshells and elevate them to a final form. 

I don't think we have a WoB on this, or is Arcanum just being weird again?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/7/2022 at 0:17 PM, ConfusedCow said:

I think the recreance was radical environmentalism.  Spren and stormlight are tied to the natural eco-system of roshar, the radiants were depleting them.  They realized they were an invasive species and like the stormfather said "tried to protect the world".

I like this idea, but I cannot think of any significant, non-circumstantial piece evidence to support it. 

On 2/7/2022 at 1:06 PM, Frustration said:

No we really aren't, anything we use is released back into the enviroment.

This is true. The primary problem is that humans are polluting water sources, so the analogy would require some reason why humans (which spren prefer to bond over singers like one might prefer meat over broth) are less friendly to the cognitive environment... (again, it would make sense but close to no evidence that I can find). I think ConfusedCow was referring to our depletion of fresh water, which is a problem, but a smaller one, when one considers that we can desalinate water. But this costs energy which uses fossil fuels and so on...

I always thought that spren and investiture were part of the natural system... Although I applaud ConfusedCow's unique theory, I would be pleased if it were false. I would both laugh and be incredibly sad if there was some sort of climate change/ pollution analogous investiture crisis.

As a side note: When has something like a freshwater depletion crisis or climate change or anything ever had a massive response where everyone agrees. The Recreance certainly implies people taking more immediate action that the world has ever taken towards environmental issues.

Edited by Kandrafish
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.