Devotary of Spontaneity Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Illwei said: Devo can you explain your role again and Wincon? I get two actions, from among a kill, power scan, protect since I have it back now, redirect, and vote shift (removing a vote or adding a vote, see Araris having 5 votes). I also get a one shot conversion of a non-Epic villager to a Corrupted Epic by giving up one of my powers, which I used on TUA C3 when it seemed like the village was winning. My win con is to be among the final three players, which doesn't apply since there are four left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Lol wow Devo, Convert TUA to the Elims just to kill him off later :P. Does it have to be exactly three players or no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devotary of Spontaneity Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 I thought the game was going to be ending and preferred the village to win with me rather than the elims. It doesn't have to be exactly three players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 I just say we vote off Orlok and then you Kill Szeth at night then, or the other way around. It's probably just szeth but this way it's a guaranteed win unless the last one turns out to be you :P. In which case I guess it's a guaranteed win for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlok Tsubodai Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 40 minutes ago, Illwei said: I just say we vote off Orlok and then you Kill Szeth at night then, or the other way around. It's probably just szeth but this way it's a guaranteed win unless the last one turns out to be you :P. In which case I guess it's a guaranteed win for you. I can see the logic here, although would obviously prefer (if we accept it) to vote off you rather than I. If we’re committed to trusting Devotary (despite this), and I think we have been since we the end of Cycle 4, I’d prefer to vote off Szeth, and have Devotary choose which of us she kills tonight. I don’t know why there wasn’t a kill, though, which tells me that we’re missing something, possibly about Devotary. One explanation would be that TUA protected Szeth, thinking that that would take it to a 2v2 today, even if Szeth didn’t kill, whilst hoping Szeth returned before the end of the cycle, and taking the whittling down of the village to the lynch as a free move. I was expecting Szeth to die tonight, and with Araris lynched scanned TUA. TUA didn’t protect Szeth, however. So why not make the kill? I return to my point about feeling like we’re missing something again. Edit: to be clear, TUA visited no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| Posted February 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 And time! Thanks for playing and please wait for the aftermath! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| Posted February 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Aftermath - Home: Calamity stood on the icy plains, looking at the sheer destructive nature of the human kind. “This is not my fault. I can only amplify what is already present, and what is present is the filthy, corrupt core that is hidden by a façade of nicety. Human beings are inherently rotten in their hearts, selfish and most of the time, care only for themselves. A few exist, honest, pure souls, bending their backs to fix what is unfixable. They deserve the entire world, but not this one. Not a world where they have to make up for everyone, but a world where they can live the life they deserve. I’ll make sure it’s painless for them.” they said, speaking to themselves more than anyone else. “I know of such a world,” spoke a voice from behind. “I could take them there.” Calamity turned around even though they knew the voice. “Alexis, it’s a noble thing, what you’ve been trying to do for the past few months. But it’s futile, she’s not like you and your friends.” “Let me worry about that. What will you do about the others?” “Nothing. These people will hate and destroy each other till the end of their time.” Alex took a deep breath. He wouldn’t blame himself. He’d tried to help them, he had. But they were not his burden. He had saved those who could be saved, and he’d be taking them with him. She was his burden, and that’s one thing he wouldn’t leave without. Calamity stepped forward and held out their hand. “I hope you succeed, Alexis.” “What will you do now?” “My work here is done. I think… I’ll go home now.” *** Vexcave was sobbing in the corner of her tent, hopelessness seeping into her body. Dead. Everyone is dead. Temperate. Incinerator. Even the near invincible Annihilation was killed by that… that monster. I have a reason I’m like this, at least something I can blame, but him? He was a monster long before Calamity arrived. She had noticed the differences in the last couple of months though. He was calmer, seemed more reasonable. He almost seemed completely… at peace. Cleaner, not haggard like she remembered. What had happened to him?? But she wouldn’t raise her hopes, the hatred she had in her for him knew no bounds, and close to nothing would make her forgive him. Ever since mom died… She shook that thought and rubbed her eyes. Now that Calamity was leaving as well, she had to survive in this lawless world, though she was finding it hard to see the point. Just as she finished composing herself, the flaps of her tent opened and he walked it. Immediately, she readied the rays of sun and converged them into a laser-like projection. Farsight was light manipulation after all. It struck him and cut across his face, a move that should have burned and killed him, but he just stood there, smoke steaming from his face, but not more damaged than before. She hit him again. And again. And again. Nothing. She slunk down to the ground as her worst fears were coming true. She thought she had scared him away when she manifested her Epic Powers, but he was back. He was back for her. She started sobbing, kneeling on the ground helpless as he approached her, and she shut her eyes. She felt a careful, timid palm lightly caress her cheek and a warm, soothing voice called out “Julieta?” Startled, she opened her eyes to the name she hadn’t heard in years, to take in the person in front of her, a person unrecognizable from the filth who raised her. “Dad?” *** Alexis looked at the tall version of his little girl. She’d grown up to be beautiful indeed. Of course she would, she always took after her mother. Not gaining the courage to confirm or deny her question, he hugged her tight. Oh, Calamity I had missed her. I’ve lost her once, I will not lose her again. They held each other for a long time, crying on each other’s shoulders. Eventually, he reigned it in. He had to, at least till he revealed her the truth. “Dad? What- what happened to you?” He took a deep breath and began, “Julieta, I’m not your father. At least, not in the conventional way.” He raised his palms, signaling to her to wait and let him continue. “You could say… that I’m a version of your dad. Just like… just like you’re a version of my little daughter.” “I-” “I come from a different place, a place just like this but with slight… variations.” Julieta, to her credit did keep quiet, beckoning him to continue. “In my world, I lost you to a horrific accident. Me and your mom survived, she… didn’t.” She perked up at the mention of her mother. “Mom? She’s - alive?” Alexis smiled widely and nodded. Then furrowed his brows, “She’s not alive here, is she? I’ve been looking for her ever since I got here.” She shook her head in a ‘no’. Suddenly, something dawned on him and everything became clear. “I was wondering how I would turn into that miserable douchebag you call dad, but now it all makes sense! It was the same accident but instead in this world, she died instead of you. That’s when he started changing, right?” She nodded slowly. Alexis shuddered and looked down, “I- I cannot say with certainty I wouldn’t turn into him if I lost Eva. She- she helped me a lot, she was strong enough for the both of us when you died. I’m sorry he wasn’t there for you, or rather, he was there for all the wrong reasons. You don’t have to worry about him any longer.” He stood up and held out his hand, “Well, c’mon! Mom’s not gonna wait forever, she’s yearning to meet you, but she did promise me a few minutes alone with you. She looked at his hand, and for a second, she was tempted. She could see her mom again, have her entire family back together again, but she finally shook her head. “No, dad. I’m still Corrupted. I’m a danger to everyone around me. I can’t come with you because I’m afraid I’d lose you both again, only this time it’ll be my fault.” “Oh, right. I forgot. You’ve gotten over your weakness now, you aren’t tainted anymore!” “WHAT?” “Totally!” “But I don’t even know my own weakness!” “Oh, Julieta dear. Why do you think I’m only approaching you now when I’ve been here for months? I was trying to figure out your weakness, of course! Though I did have to pursue you safely and from a distance.” “You call your pursuit the last few months ‘SAFELY’ and ‘FROM A DISTANCE’??? You could’ve killed me in at least 5 separate instances!” “C’mon now, how could I find out about your powers without testing them?” he chuckled. “Well? Out with it, what was it?” He just smiled at her, and gave a giant hug as he kissed her forehead… and she knew. At that moment she knew. “Father’s love.” “That’s right. Once I knew where to look for, it wasn’t hard to figure it out. You were afraid you’d forgive everything he’d ever done to you if he changed, corrected himself and asked for your forgiveness. You were afraid he’d go back to his old ways once you forgave him and it would break your heart to push him away. You were afraid… of loving your father.” She nodded, not able to speak. It was that easy, and everything he said was true. She just needed someone to show it to her. “And now?” “And now… you’re not.” he spread his hands and she smiled, understandingly. “C’mon, let’s go before Eva starts yelling at me for taking too long with you.” *** Alexis watched from afar as his wife and daughter hugged each other and spoke in hushed tones. He turned around, giving them time to get acquainted as he thought of the last few months. He had done it! It came at a price, and Calamity knows he tried to help them, but the reason he came here in the first place, his lost daughter… he’d gotten her back. It was all worth it, right? He turned around and looked at the happiness on their faces and he decided it was. These people… they’ll be fine. If not in this world, in some or the other, they’ll be fine. *** As they walked hand in hand, followed by the few he had promised he would take with him , he realized something and smiled. “So, Vexcave eh?” he asked. She smiled sheepishly, a little bit embarrassed, “I derived it from Convex and Concave” she mumbled. “Hahahaha, you were always the smart one, very brilliant even at that small age.” She smiled lightly and in turn, asked a question of her own. “Hey dad, why didn’t my powers affect you?” “Oh, powers from this world cannot affect me. It’s just one of my many powers.” he grinned. “Many? Like what?” He smiled at that. “Like, Julieta my dear, I can take us home.” He extended his arms and focused as the air around them shimmered and stretched to look like saran wrap. They began moving apart up to the point that they ripped and the door to another world was open. He held their hands tight as they walked together as a family, whole again after a long time, into a world they’d call their home. Szeth_Pancakes was eliminated! They were a Regular Reckoner Ally! Illwei was killed! She was the Reckoner Ally Epic - Undertaker! Vote Count: Szeth_Pancakes (2): Devotary of Spontaneity, Orlok Tsubodai Devotary of Spontaneity (0): Illwei Calamity has won! Congratulations to @Devotary of Spontaneity! [The game has reached a state where the village cannot win anymore.] Quote Calamity: You are tired of life on Earth. Your goal is to eliminate everyone and remain the last member standing at the end of the game. You can either kill a player or convert a Reckoner Ally to a Corrupted Epic in a cycle. Converts available depend on the player count. You possess 4 successful kills and 1 conversion from C2 onwards. You cannot use both the conversion and the kill in the same cycle. You can only convert Regular Reckoners. You cannot convert Benevolent Epics. You retain your convert if your target is a Benevolent Epics or dies in the same cycle as the conversion. You know the alignment of each and every player alive in the game, but you don’t know their powers. You have an extra life and 4 powers - Vote shift, Power Scan, Protect, Redirect. When you convert a player, you have to give up a power to make them Corrupted. After conversion, they possess the power given to them. You can retake their power on their death. But you cannot convert any more players with the same power. You can take 2 actions per cycle. You cannot convert players when there are no Corrupted Epics alive. Conversion also fails when attempted during the cycle in which the last Corrupted Epic dies. You are immune to Annihilation but not to vigilante kills. Power-set - Vote Shift: Change a target’s no-vote into vote or a vote into a no-vote. Power Scan: Scan a player to check if they have Epic Powers or not. Protect: You can protect a player you choose, but you cannot self-protect. You cannot protect the same player in consecutive cycles. Redirect: Target a player and redirect their actions onto another random player. You cannot target the same player in consecutive cycles. Quote You are Reckoner Ally Epic called Undertaker! Though you do not actually bury the dead, you were a massive WWE fan while growing up, and hence you took on your favorite wrestler’s name to match your ability. You can resurrect one cycle after your first death. You will be revealed as a vanilla on your first death, and your alignment will not be revealed. You will not be given dead doc access. Orlok Tsubodai survived. He was the Reckoner Ally Epic - StrungAlong! Quote You are Reckoner Ally Epic called StrungAlong! You have the powers to string yourself to a target and follow them. You learn whom they visit. Doc Links: Day of Reckoning (Full Rules Revealed) - There are a couple of roles that I did not include in the game. Do check it out if you're interested. GM Spreadsheet Dead Doc Calamity Doc Corrupted Epics Doc Player List: Spoiler @Illwei Reckoner Ally Epic - Undertaker @Matrim's Dice - Orion Reckoner Ally Epic Knighthawk Scientist @Experience - Emfatic Reckoner Ally Epic - D-Coy @Kasimir - Mordred Kasjek Reckoner Ally Epic - Cobb @StrikerEZ - Nathaniel Walker Reckoner Ally Epic - Prestige @The Unknown Aon - Apocalypse Regular Converted Corrupted Epic - Ironwall @Araris Valerian - Spark O'toole Reckoner Ally Epic - Walk in My Pradas [WiMP] @Ashbringer Reckoner Ally Epic - Santa Klaus @Tani - Ricochet Reckoner Ally Epic - Robbin' Hood @Karnatheon Reckoner Ally Epic - Pendulum @Devotary of Spontaneity - Sonia Biven Calamity @Archer - Skmurph Corrupted Epic - Incinerator @STINK Corrupted Epic - Shadowtrap @_Stick_ Corrupted Epic - Annihilation @Szeth_Pancakes Regular Reckoner Ally @MintSilverTea - Zehpyr Regular Reckoner Ally @JNV - Eiro Regular Reckoner Ally @Amanuensis - Blink Regular Reckoner Ally @Thaidakar the Ghostblood - Endrik Reckoner Ally Epic - Bullseye @Orlok Tsubodai - Locke Reckoner Ally Epic - StrungAlong @Dannnex - Joe Reckoner Ally Epic - Big Bully BroncoBuster Thank you all for playing! I know the game was frustrating at times to play, but thanks for stick by and trying to have fun out of it anyway. A huge thanks to @Elandera, our friendly neighborhood IM and @Elbereth for pruning the rules and helping to finetune the game. GM Thoughts to come in a while. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Thoughts when less tired myself, but thanks for GMing @|TJ| and congrats on winning, @Devotary of Spontaneity! Thanks especially to threadPMbro @Amanuensis and @Ashbringer (also Araris, Orlok, esp. in C3) for full-bore kayana thread theorising and discussion. It was fun, and the best part of the game for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidakar the Ghostblood Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 this was fun guys, I can't' wait for another game! this helped my skill at SE evolve. You guys are fun to play with. thankyou all for dealing with my noob behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick. Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Thanks for the game TJ! This can't have been easy to GM but you pulled it off and I had fun playing! This was probably the only game where I've lied so blatantly every minute while also sticking to the truth because accountability xD Archer, Stink, TUA - nice playing elim with yall! And good job Devo for pulling off the win I'm happy an Epic that was Corrupted won, even if you weren't really a Corrupted Epic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 So just Calamity won, and not the village? I can live with that I had fun in the dead doc, at least! I think this was the first time I’ve been D1d proper and I do think I kind of deserved it which is fine. No flips as a starting point is definitely hard but I am glad Stick was found out eventually Congrats @Devotary of Spontaneity! It was especially fun watching you play, in part because I never fully understood your wincon or power set xD Thanks to @|TJ| for running this as well! Blackouts are always fun and I’m a bit sad I didn’t get to experience more of it (or use my role) but that’s fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Ajah Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 I'm sorry to the other members of the elim team for my suboptimal play. We kinda let devo win because it would have outed me. Probably would have gone way better if we straight up killed them. Good Game everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick. Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Unknown Aon said: I'm sorry to the other members of the elim team for my suboptimal play. We kinda let devo win because it would have outed me. Probably would have gone way better if we straight up killed them. Good Game everyone. Being converted mid-game and then promptly losing all your teammates is a tough spot to be put in so please don't worry about it! We did our best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| Posted February 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 GM Thoughts: First of all, I’d like to apologize. I know C2-C3 was frustrating the village and Flipless + Arson was really very village-hindering and a bad call. Now, to hear my reasoning. So in my last game, I had excess elim team members, even more than the village - 8 villagers, 5 elims each on two different elim teams, so only 8/18 players were village. The thing is, elims had very limited info and no doc to communicate, so they did not know of this fact and the balance worked out. This time, I wanted to flip it around. Excessive villagers, very few elim members. Very early during the development I had decided the number of elims to be 2 - Annihilation and Incinerator. The balance for a deficit elim team was actually inspired by Joe’s game - MR20, which was a single-player elim game. The difference was that MR20 revealed alignment of eliminations but hid the alignment of deaths via any other means. Here, I gave the option to the elims, which was a mistake, but would’ve probably still been fine, but there were no other deaths because of Annihilation, which really hampered village info and analysis. The game was designed when 15-18 player count was considered the norm, so 2 elims would have been perfect for that, but when the player count reached 21, I had to reconsider. I did run simulations for a 2 player elim team in a 21-player game [you can check the GM Spreadsheet for the simulations], and decided it was too weak, and gave them another one. Next, another balance to the village side was to make the elim roles alignment specific so that even when only their roles were revealed it’d be obvious when they were evil. The village just… didn’t know this :P. Roles-wise it was village-sided I feel, to make up for the lack of info from the elimination. Role-block, double life, target scan, unblockable kill, protect - all these are quite strong against a 3-person team, which was then restrained by tonnnnnns of redirect actions :P. The biggest balance against elims running away with victory, however, was Calamity. Calamity knowing the evil players was to offset the lack of village info. Though in hindsight, it does feel a little bit unfair for the elims [though major props to Devotary, she played fair by elims]. An alignment + power scan would have been better instead of starting off with the knowledge of the evil team. But that would have probably made Calamity’s wincon a bit harder. Conversion was to only manage the elim numbers and only served to help Calamity’s wincon. My one gripe is that I wanted a way to let the village know they had to kill Calamity to win, but I couldn't do that without painting a target on Calamity's back. I tried to find a balance for this but I couldn't see a way, and just hoped the village would see the extent of Calamity's powers and the SK nature and assume they have to kill her. I feel like my future games will have to come up with a disclaimer that it won’t be flipless or arson xD I think that's it for now. If I think of anything else, I'll add it, but I'm too tired and sleepy, so I'll hit send for now. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 1 minute ago, The Unknown Aon said: I'm sorry to the other members of the elim team for my suboptimal play. I appreciate that you fully embraced your alignment transition and feel no remorse about the village loss :P. Don't worry about it, just having you join us out of the blue was fun. Speaking of which, people have hinted at thoughts about alignment concealment/changing/being known by the neutral, but my team benefited the most from those, so I don't really think I'm a good place to comment on them. General play note, friendly reminder that it's important to identify the point where conversations cease being productive. The game is designed to build to points where you test your theories, and after a certain amount of discussion, it's okay to agree to disagree and wait until rollover (or that hour before rollover when people actually commit to votes), trusting that the best points you're going to make have already been made, and the risk of inflaming emotions or smothering casual contributors has gotten too high. I always feel sorry for neutrals because they're essentially at the mercy of the village once they've been outed. The powerset Cal received seemed to balance their vulnerability. I can't remember ever seeing one win solo, so great job, Devo! In addition to being busy IRL, I tried to play as lowkey a game as possible and I still drew too much attention to myself. I think it comes from only having ever been elim in short games, so I need to work on that. Thanks for working with me, Stick and Stink. It was epic. :P. Shootout to TJ for their excellent distro method XD. And thank you for running the game, you and Elandera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 I just lost a big post… so I’ll summarize and then go eat and post later. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH- That was fun! I do think the village could have used a bit more early info, but in the end it balanced fairly well despite the chaos. 20 minutes ago, |TJ| said: My one gripe is that I wanted a way to let the village know they had to kill Calamity to win, but I couldn't do that without painting a target on Calamity's back. I tried to find a balance for this but I couldn't see a way, and just hoped the village would see the extent of Calamity's powers and the SK nature and assume they have to kill her. Waves I know a Kandra when I see one, TJ Congrats to Devotary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Oh yeah... Spoiler 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidakar the Ghostblood Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Matrim's Dice said: Oh yeah... Hide contents haha, I wish I could make memes, imgflip isn't working for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elandera Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Thanks to TJ for running this game. Despite some of the issues that arose, the general feel I get is that people still enjoyed the game. And that, after all, is the point of things. Before this gets too active, please remember to be courteous and polite in your posts. Feel free to point out potential flaws so that future GMs and players can learn, but take care to not phrase posts in a way that put down any individual. GMs put a lot of work into games, and it can be difficult to see all of the potential problems with mechanics. Despite the frustration and chaos, the game did balance well in the end. Regarding the flipless nature at the beginning, we were actively pursuing a fix in the case that Archer survived. I don't take rule changes mid-game lightly, though. The nature of blackout does offer some amount of fudging there, but there is the potential for even worse balance issues. In this case, both TJ and I agreed something would need to change if the elims could continue obscuring all execution flips, and we developed a back-up plan. Luckily, that didn't need to happen because Archer subsequently died. Again, remember the rules, and keep focused on the goal of SE. To have fun. Congratulations to Devo for her win. It was well-deserved. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNV Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Congrats, Devotary! This was a lot of fun and I liked the funny role names. I don't really know what else to say so I'll just leave it at that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, |TJ| said: My one gripe is that I wanted a way to let the village know they had to kill Calamity to win, but I couldn't do that without painting a target on Calamity's back. I tried to find a balance for this but I couldn't see a way, and just hoped the village would see the extent of Calamity's powers and the SK nature and assume they have to kill her. I think wincons should be included in rolecards. I know it's a blackout but wincons should be blatant imo. Simply saying "all threats" or something similar works. The factions specifically said: Quote Reckoner Allies: You are the uninformed majority. You win when Corrupted Epics are eliminated. And there was nothing expanding or reiterating that in the GMPMs. If Calamity counted as a "corrupted epic" then their role would be "Corrupted Epic - Calamity" so yeah. EDIT: Sorry if this sounds hostile, not intentional. Edited February 26, 2022 by Illwei 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 Just wanna say that I had a blast playing this game. I wasn’t really online when most of the frustration with the lack of flips was happening, so I wasn’t really bothered by it. I just was having a lot of fun pretending to be a neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnatheon Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 I didn't pay too close attention to things after I died but I had a lot of fun trying to figure out rules and convincing myself it was a conversion game while I was alive! Thanks for running this one TJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 Good game everyone! Might leave some more detailed comments, but I enjoyed this a lot. Thanks to @|TJ| for GMing, @Elandera for IMing, and congrats to @Devotary of Spontaneity for pulling of a SK victory! I also remembered why I stopped signing up for 2 games at once around 5 years ago . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devotary of Spontaneity Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 Thank you to @|TJ| and @Elandera for running the game! I don't think it was good for me to know who all the elims were since that made it too easy to make them lose. My conversion allowed me to hold TUA hostage since he dies immediately after I do, which then makes STINK's survival very suspicious, while the reveal that I know all the elims would make Stick look bad. With the village I got far enough by exploiting the desire to let neutrals win that they eventually couldn't afford the time to kill me and also wanted my help, which I could do with being able to kill the elims at any time. while the village wincon gave no hint that they needed to kill me. Since I might have sabotaged blackout neutrals for a while, I think it should be possible to figure out whether there are hostile(game-ending) neutrals present. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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