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How Kalads Phantoms work.


Eternal Khol

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A month or so ago i remember seeing a post on here(or maybe on reddit)musing about how Kalad's Phantoms move, and i think the general consensus was that the Breaths made the bone/rock flexible or something so the Phantoms could l move?(if anyone remembers feel free to correct me)

im on a journey reading old WoB looking for hints or stuff about things that are just now happening in the Cosmere and came across this old WoB that talks about the Phantom's and states that they have areas carved in the rock for the joints and that the Breaths acted as "magical sinew" holding the different pieces together.

Thats pretty crazy... using Breath as a magical glue pretty much. I guess thats what i always thought. I mean, something is holding the Phantoms together. Its just cool to know now. If its like a sinew, then that should make the Phantoms as agile as a person, or even more so because they would be able to turn there head or limbs 360 degrees. Really puts them a step higher on how dangerous they are(or how i imagined them to be at least.)

 

On a un-Phantom related topic, i also came across a WoB that states that one Nalthis country is using Awakened machinery(for free energy) which is really awesome and something i hope we get to see in Nightblood.

Edited by Eternal Khol
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10 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

A month or so ago i remember seeing a post on here(or maybe on reddit)musing about how Kalad's Phantoms move, and i think the general consensus was that the Breaths made the bone/rock flexible or something so the Phantoms could l move?(if anyone remembers feel free to correct me)

im on a journey reading old WoB looking for hints or stuff about things that are just now happening in the Cosmere and came across this old WoB that talks about the Phantom's and states that they have areas carved in the rock for the joints and that the Breaths acted as "magical sinew" holding the different pieces together.

Thats pretty crazy... using Breath as a magical glue pretty much. I guess thats what i always thought. I mean, something is holding the Phantoms together. Its just cool to know now. If its like a sinew, then that should make the Phantoms as agile as a person, or even more so because they would be able to turn there head or limbs 360 degrees. Really puts them a step higher on how dangerous they are(or how i imagined them to be at least.)

 

On a un-Phantom related topic, i also came across a WoB that states that one Nalthis country is using Awakened machinery(for free energy) which is really awesome and something i hope we get to see in Nightblood.

I'd also love to see more of Nalthis and how Awakening can be used by society. I'd especially like to see more "self Awakening", because I want to see its limitations.

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12 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

A month or so ago i remember seeing a post on here(or maybe on reddit)musing about how Kalad's Phantoms move, and i think the general consensus was that the Breaths made the bone/rock flexible or something so the Phantoms could l move?(if anyone remembers feel free to correct me)

im on a journey reading old WoB looking for hints or stuff about things that are just now happening in the Cosmere and came across this old WoB that talks about the Phantom's and states that they have areas carved in the rock for the joints and that the Breaths acted as "magical sinew" holding the different pieces together.

Thats pretty crazy... using Breath as a magical glue pretty much. I guess thats what i always thought. I mean, something is holding the Phantoms together. Its just cool to know now. If its like a sinew, then that should make the Phantoms as agile as a person, or even more so because they would be able to turn there head or limbs 360 degrees. Really puts them a step higher on how dangerous they are(or how i imagined them to be at least.)

 

On a un-Phantom related topic, i also came across a WoB that states that one Nalthis country is using Awakened machinery(for free energy) which is really awesome and something i hope we get to see in Nightblood.

Not quite, if I hear you right.  The commonly accepted understanding (mostly from the WOB you mention, I suspect) will animate the object but has to work within the normal properties of the material.  It will move things that can flex on their own but wont make stone flexible or liquid cohesive.  The Phantoms needed mechanical joints in the stone, but the Breaths become the animating force in place of Muscles (same as they would in a sheet of fabric.  Otherwise, yes, they have at least the capabilities of a mortal human in terms of speed and even skills, since they are still just Lifeless. However, for the most part it works relative to human capabilities and shapes, so the less "normal" an action the more resistance you are likely to get from the breaths (ie a less effective Command). 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

(Disclaimers so that you can't say, like, "well if a Shard...") If a regular Awakener, just a mundane Awakener with nothing more than a few hundred Breaths and not any other outside influences, is there some Command they could give a blanket to get the blanket to turn warm? Generate heat; is that a normal thing you can Command?

Brandon Sanderson

Not in just a normal situation. I mean, technically, you could tell the blanket "start rubbing one part against another part" or something like that, or "set yourself on fire," right? But that's not what you're asking. For Awakening to work, you have to work within the intrinsic properties of the matter you're making, except it can move around a bit and with a few little other things it can do.

It's not outside the realm of possibility you could activate those Breaths as Investiture to do something else, but you would need more than just the simple magic system of Awakening. 

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

My friends would like to know if you can Awaken liquids?

Brandon Sanderson

This is almost impossible.

Questioner

Almost impossible?

Brandon Sanderson

Almost impossible, but not fully impossible, but basically impossible. Particularly if you're talking about just a liquid, not in a container, anything like that. Technically, you can kind of Awaken a dead animal, which will have some liquid in it and stuff. But if you just want to Awaken like--

Questioner

A bowl of water?

Brandon Sanderson

A bowl of water, almost impossible.

Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019)

 

 

 

The other Nalthian lands are definitely fascinating to me too!  Not quite Free according to a more recent clarification (which I cant seem to find right now). Conservation is a thing even with Investiture, and when asked about it he said something to the effect that an active Awakening would eventually use up the breaths that animate it, such that if it took 10 breaths to animate a wheel and you left it working for a long time, you might only get 9 breaths back. 

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2 hours ago, Quantus said:

The commonly accepted understanding (mostly from the WOB you mention, I suspect) will animate the object but has to work within the normal properties of the material.  It will move things that can flex on their own but wont make stone flexible or liquid cohesive

Yeah, i know. I think that was just the conclusion everyone else came to(that it made the bone flexible)

 

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

so the less "normal" an action the more resistance you are likely to get from the breaths (ie a less effective Command). 

I dont think Breath takes it that far? Do they?

as long as its in human shape.... a phatom with their head or arm on backwards is still shaped into a human. Right? Exept their a magic construct who should be able to do things a human with real muscles couldnt. im not expexting a lot, but i think a little more flexibility from these unalive magically created beings isnt outside the realm of possibility.

Im not saying itll be built into their commands to like... have 360 degree joints unlike a human could, but if a phantom were in battle i do think they should have a little more room in how they could turn their head or arms.

if the Breath really is a "magical sinew" thats the only thing holding the bones together. Then it should be able to move whichever way its wants.

On the other hand, Breath does try to aproximate life and it does act as a sinew, so i imagine it would also try to act like human sinew/ligaments holding bones together and wouldnt only let them bend/turn as much as a human could.

 

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

 Not quite Free according to a more recent clarification (which I cant seem to find right now). Conservation is a thing even with Investiture, and when asked about it he said something to the effect that an active Awakening would eventually use up the breaths that animate it, such that if it took 10 breaths to animate a wheel and you left it working for a long time, you might only get 9 breaths back. 

Yeah, I think I know which ones youre talking about. Im still gonna call it free though lol

Did you misquote the water awakening WoB? Im s little confused about how that one was relevant.

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13 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

I dont think Breath takes it that far? Do they?

as long as its in human shape.... a phatom with their head or arm on backwards is still shaped into a human. Right? Exept their a magic construct who should be able to do things a human with real muscles couldnt. im not expexting a lot, but i think a little more flexibility from these unalive magically created beings isnt outside the realm of possibility.

Im not saying itll be built into their commands to like... have 360 degree joints unlike a human could, but if a phantom were in battle i do think they should have a little more room in how they could turn their head or arms.

if the Breath really is a "magical sinew" thats the only thing holding the bones together. Then it should be able to move whichever way its wants.

On the other hand, Breath does try to aproximate life and it does act as a sinew, so i imagine it would also try to act like human sinew/ligaments holding bones together and wouldnt only let them bend/turn as much as a human could.

It's a sliding scale and there is a lot of workable things you can do in the "less effective" zone.  And I honestly think you Could make a lifeless phantom with 360 joints or extra limbs, etc, but I dont think you'd be able to animate it with the super-efficient 1-breath Command that was such a military breakthrough (which I strongly suspect only works with actual dead bodies) and would need at least the 50 they originally used.  It the same with the rest of the awakening, where Cloth can certainly be animated but it will try to impose human shapes and mechanisms, and if it already has that shape because it's sewn into a doll shape it works easier and/or with less breaths required to animate it.  

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have always imagined Kalad's phantoms as like stone incased puppets. I think of stone marionettes with intricate stone carvings that hide the joints. The Breath would power them. I also think of loose stone sockets being built for joints. Mostly the hip since a hip joint would be easy but, wrists and other joints might have to be remodeled into ball and socket joints if my marionette theory is right.

Spoiler

The D'Denir statues were also all always down on one knee with their head resting on their other knee in my "head cannon" (or maybe that is actual cannon... I don't remember).  Which would kind of make sense if they were set at some sort of balance point with the weight of the stone and maybe some indents in the ground preventing them from tipping.

 

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