Thoughts on Shadows, Perception, and the Problem of Memory

[Kingsdaughter613]

All people have a Cognitive Aspect which is formed of Investiture (as technically everything is). Upon death this Aspect begins to dissipate, just as the body begins to decay. An infusion of Investiture to the body will heal it and an infusion of Investiture to the Cognitive Aspect will maintain it.

Living people are effected by other people’s perceptions. The effect is simply minimized for unknown reasons. In contrast, the Cognitive Aspects of objects and non-sapient creatures do not have whatever safe guard minimizes this effect on living sapients and are strongly effected by perceptions.

Shadows seem to fall into an in between area. They’re less effected by perception than non-sapients, but they’re more effected than living sapients. Whatever safeguards living sapients appears to be damaged, though a strong enough infusion of Investiture or exposure to the Spiritual Realm may help.

What’s even more interesting is that there’s some indication that the whole problem is tied to memory and the limits of human capacity for it. It’s possible memory is the safeguard. There are some indications that an ordinary living sapient who lives too long will begin to have the same issue as a Shadow. And others that indicate natural immortals may avoid the issue. It’s also worth noting that Vessels seem to have a similar problem and some take advantage by trying to shape perceptions of themselves in particular manners. (Note that most Vessels are alive.)

To me this indicates that the problem is less of perception and more a matter of Spiritual Connection. If the body is the physical function, and the Cognitive is the consciousness, it seems like the Spiritual is the totality of our lives experiences: the web of memories and connections we form throughout our lives that define who we are. It seems to me that as the Cognitive Aspect reaches its natural threshold for recall, it begins to lose its ability to access portions of that web, almost like a magical version of Alzheimer’s disease. It’s as though the Connection between Consciousness and Experience begins to fray, leading to the weakening of the Self. I’m going to call this the recall threshold: the point past where a Cognitive Aspect can access the sum totality of its Spirit Web. If something happens to expand the Cognitive Aspect’s ability to ‘recall’ or if something stimulates this, the Cognitive Aspect will ‘remember’ itself.

In the absence of a whole link to the Spiritweb, I think perception takes its place. That’s a type of Connection too, but it’s one formed by the collective experiences and memories of other people. If you don’t know who you are, then you have to take it from other people. Imagine someone with amnesia, being told ‘You are X. You work as a Y. This is your family.’ etc. and determining who you are based on that. Except on a much broader and unconscious scale. 

In this hypothesis, as the ties from the Cognitive Aspect to the Spiritweb fray, the collective Consciousness, the perceptions and Connections of and with other people, act to shore up the fraying supports. Over time, as the ties between Realms continue to weaken, this collective consciousness becomes a pseudo-Spiritweb shaping the way the Cognitive Aspect defines itself while still allowing that self to maintain some definition.

This has little to do with whether it’s the original person, or soul, or not. It’s not a problem of perception - indeed, perception would actually be acting as a symptom reducer - but a problem of Connection between Realms. The problem that Shadows face would simply be a result of those ties being damaged by having died. Just as a person loses their Connection to the Physical, they also lose their Connection to the Spiritual upon death. When a Shadow has their Cognitive Aspect stabilized, it stops the severing process and may even reverse some of the damage. But it seems reasonable that these Connections between Realms are no longer whole. The Connection to the Physical, for example, needs to be intentionally restored. If the tie to the Spiritual remains damaged, then it would be more vulnerable to breakdown than that of a living sapient. So while both living and Shadow will experience the recall threshold problem, a Shadow will experience the effects much sooner.

This effect would apply to all Shadows over time. In fact, it would apply to all non-natural immortals. Even natural immortals could, in theory, eventually hit their (presumably much higher) recall threshold and experience the effects of the loss of Spiritual Connection. 

In conclusion, whether or not a Shadow is the original person’s consciousness/soul is immaterial and remains a philosophical problem (as per WoB). The problem is one of Realmatic Connection that would ultimately effect all sapients, with the closest Physical Realm equivalent being something like Alzheimer’s or other disorders of memory. The fact that increasing the recall threshold or decreasing the distance between Realms can heal this damage would be indicative of this problem not being tied to original personhood of a Shadow, but to a greater Realmatic effect to which Shadows are simply more susceptible due to their weakened ties to the Realms.

[TheWanderer]

Fascinating and interesting theory, I like it a lot. 

[Kingsdaughter613]

6 hours ago, TheWanderer said:

Fascinating and interesting theory, I like it a lot. 

Thank you!

[AquaRegia]

As a scientist, I normally dislike the way the word "theory" is used here in the 17th Shard forums.  Typically applied to "random ideas someone had while reading a Cosmere novel", it offends my sense of scientific pride; a much better word would be "hypothesis", meaning a guess that could very simply be tested and disproved, if false.

THIS, however, deserves the word "theory".  It 1) describes and relates multiple pieces of evidence we've seen in the Cosmere, 2) explains how things have come to be the way they are in a new and interesting way, and 3) makes multiple predictions about what kinds of things may happen in the future, and WHY.  A terrific work of observation, deduction, imagination, and insight.  Well done, @Kingsdaughter613!

Alas, if only we, like Navani, had the ability to perform our own in-world experiments!  While I'd guess very few in-world characters are in a position to do useful experiments on the Cognitive/Spiritual aspects of immortals... although as I type this, I find myself thinking we may have already seen multiple examples of just such research.  We, as mere outside observers, are forced to make do with new works as they are published - and, of course, the cleverly constructed questions which produce useful WoBs.

[TheWanderer]

16 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

As a scientist, I normally dislike the way the word "theory" is used here in the 17th Shard forums.  Typically applied to "random ideas someone had while reading a Cosmere novel", it offends my sense of scientific pride; a much better word would be "hypothesis", meaning a guess that could very simply be tested and disproved, if false.

THIS, however, deserves the word "theory".  It 1) describes and relates multiple pieces of evidence we've seen in the Cosmere, 2) explains how things have come to be the way they are in a new and interesting way, and 3) makes multiple predictions about what kinds of things may happen in the future, and WHY.  A terrific work of observation, deduction, imagination, and insight.  Well done, @Kingsdaughter613!

Alas, if only we, like Navani, had the ability to perform our own in-world experiments!  While I'd guess very few in-world characters are in a position to do useful experiments on the Cognitive/Spiritual aspects of immortals... although as I type this, I find myself thinking we may have already seen multiple examples of just such research.  We, as mere outside observers, are forced to make do with new works as they are published - and, of course, the cleverly constructed questions which produce useful WoBs.

If only we could all go to silverlight and peruse the myriad of texts they likely have on investiture. Would be heavenly to say the least. 

[Kingsdaughter613]

1 hour ago, AquaRegia said:

As a scientist, I normally dislike the way the word "theory" is used here in the 17th Shard forums.  Typically applied to "random ideas someone had while reading a Cosmere novel", it offends my sense of scientific pride; a much better word would be "hypothesis", meaning a guess that could very simply be tested and disproved, if false.

THIS, however, deserves the word "theory".  It 1) describes and relates multiple pieces of evidence we've seen in the Cosmere, 2) explains how things have come to be the way they are in a new and interesting way, and 3) makes multiple predictions about what kinds of things may happen in the future, and WHY.  A terrific work of observation, deduction, imagination, and insight.  Well done, @Kingsdaughter613!

Alas, if only we, like Navani, had the ability to perform our own in-world experiments!  While I'd guess very few in-world characters are in a position to do useful experiments on the Cognitive/Spiritual aspects of immortals... although as I type this, I find myself thinking we may have already seen multiple examples of just such research.  We, as mere outside observers, are forced to make do with new works as they are published - and, of course, the cleverly constructed questions which produce useful WoBs.

Thank you so much! This was such a lovely compliment. I really appreciate it!

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

As a scientist, I normally dislike the way the word "theory" is used here in the 17th Shard forums.  Typically applied to "random ideas someone had while reading a Cosmere novel", it offends my sense of scientific pride; a much better word would be "hypothesis", meaning a guess that could very simply be tested and disproved, if false.

THIS, however, deserves the word "theory".  It 1) describes and relates multiple pieces of evidence we've seen in the Cosmere, 2) explains how things have come to be the way they are in a new and interesting way, and 3) makes multiple predictions about what kinds of things may happen in the future, and WHY.  A terrific work of observation, deduction, imagination, and insight.  Well done, @Kingsdaughter613!

Alas, if only we, like Navani, had the ability to perform our own in-world experiments!  While I'd guess very few in-world characters are in a position to do useful experiments on the Cognitive/Spiritual aspects of immortals... although as I type this, I find myself thinking we may have already seen multiple examples of just such research.  We, as mere outside observers, are forced to make do with new works as they are published - and, of course, the cleverly constructed questions which produce useful WoBs.

Oh I'm hurt. do you know how much time I spend researching theories

No, you're right, most of what are called theories just thoughts, which is fine, just not theories.