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If a twinborn of chromium burns the metal with fortune stored in it (I think it's called compounding), how much far in the future it's possible to see using this technique?

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Not into the future at all. That's what atium grants, not chromium. The mechanisms between those are related, from what we know of them right now (both rely on drawing information from the spiritual realm). Cosmere Fortune is more about putting you in the right place at the right time for a good result, and you yourself don't necessarily know why you're there or what the good result will be. Like, if you were in a casino, it might draw you to the roulette table when someone is about to win and, in their exuberance, give money to everyone nearby. It wouldn't tell you what the actual result (the number and color) of the roulette spin would be.

So compounded Fortune probably would work in that mode: drawing you to the best places at the best times for the best things to happen to you, and then not running out of the Fortune you need to keep doing that. Sort of like gold compounding keeps your body intact even if you set off a stick of dynamite in your hand. There is a maximum degree of healthiness you can have, and enough Feruchemical storage will keep you there through pretty much anything, but you can't be healthier than that. The compounding just makes it possible to always be at that maximum level without worrying about running out of the stored health you need to keep doing that. As for what the "maximum level of luck" might be, or what it might look like, I don't think we have any idea.

I think that the best part of compounding Fortune is that you don't have to deal with much of the dangers of storing your Fortune. A period of serious ill luck could be fatal, or otherwise irreversibly bad.

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1 hour ago, RocFox4 said:

If a twinborn of chromium burns the metal with fortune stored in it (I think it's called compounding), how much far in the future it's possible to see using this technique?

Welcome to the 17th Shard!

The thing about Feruchemy is that there isn't really a true limit to how much you can compress an attribute, though you do need to worry about running out of investiture stored in your metalminds as they come from your own self sacrifice. Compounding breaks that limitation of having only a small pool of investiture to draw on, however, which is kind of it's whole deal. So, you could see very, very far, assuming that you compound and store enough investiture, and theoretically if you tap enough you'll peer directly into the spiritual realm.

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On 1/12/2022 at 5:48 PM, RocFox4 said:

If a twinborn of chromium burns the metal with fortune stored in it (I think it's called compounding), how much far in the future it's possible to see using this technique?

This depends if Fortune even shows the future. Some ways fortune is used is to give luck. But yea it would probably let you see pretty far in the future if you compounded alooooot. 

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3 hours ago, Returned said:

compounded Fortune probably would work in that mode: drawing you to the best places at the best times for the best things to happen to you

Is that kind of what Hoid does? He said that he took an oath when he was young that he would always be where he was needed and this sounds similar to that.

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40 minutes ago, ImportantQuestions said:

Is that kind of what Hoid does? He said that he took an oath when he was young that he would always be where he was needed and this sounds similar to that.

Definitely, though we don't know the exact mechanism he uses to access Fortune (it seems unlikely to be chromium), and there are likely some specifics that are peculiar to him. We've got a pretty solid WoB on it:

Quote

Xyrd (paraphrased)

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

Xyrd (paraphrased)

Is chromium involved in that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016)

Another WoB states that Hoid didn't take the second bead of Lerasium at the Well of Ascension because he know that if he did, bad things would happen (which also sounds like a Fortune-derived bit of knowledge to me).

And, interestingly, Hoid does apparently have some knowledge of the future and that knowledge is related to the same mechanism that draws him to where he needs to be. He's aware that instant noodles will exist and is looking forward to them. So either his interaction with Fortune is different from others', or we have an incomplete understanding of how Fortune operates, or he has somehow deduced information about the future by utilizing Fortune (in whole or in part). I, personally, think the third is the most likely by far, but I don't think there is enough information out there yet to confidently reach a conclusion (and would be a topic for a different thread :P).

Edited by Returned
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Here's the thing about Fortune, it can theoretically see infinity far into the future. This is because of the way the spiritual realm works, in the spiritual realm all times are one. The problem is that the farther into the future you look the more other users of Fortune would jack up the images, and because all sentient life has some Fortune (that's how a Feruchemist can store that as a atribute, you can't store what you don't have)  it can go off the rails very quickly on a universal perspective of time.

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42 minutes ago, Returned said:

Definitely, though we don't know the exact mechanism he uses to access Fortune (it seems unlikely to be chromium)

I am pretty sure it's not chomium because Hoid isn't a Feruchemist or Ferring as far as I know, and I'm definitely going to open this up into a different thread.

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On 10/23/2022 at 1:13 PM, Hoids Wit said:

This depends if Fortune even shows the future. Some ways fortune is used is to give luck. But yea it would probably let you see pretty far in the future if you compounded alooooot. 

Fortune doesn't give Futurevision, it's more of a "let the Force guide you" Spiritual type thing; along with the appropriate hook of what you want, I suppose?

This WoB wasn't originally about Fortune, but the answer is very illuminating as to how Brandon conceives of it:

Quote

Questioner

Close to the end of Rhythm of War, Dalinar Connects Kaladin to something, which gives him the vision of Tien. Did he Connect him to Tien's dead soul, and if so, does Dalinar know what he did?

Brandon Sanderson

There are two prevailing theories on what happened here among cosmerenauts, in-world Arcanists. You would get two different answers. The most common answer is, Dalinar attached himself to the Spiritual Realm, pulled out possibilities, and showed one of those to Kaladin.

Questioner

If so, where did the horse come from?

Brandon Sanderson

Either pure coincidence, or some sort of matching of Fortune to the moment, that ended up leading Kaladin to the place he needed to be, which is the way a lot of Fortune works. Fortune would be like, "You should go here," and you don't even know why. That's what the Arcanist answer would be, it would be the most common answer. Some people would say he reached into the Beyond and connected Tien to Kaladin via Tien's actual soul. I will leave these both as equally valid theories. As I've said many times, I'm not gonna say whether there is an actual afterlife in the cosmere because it is too foundational to too many characters' beliefs, or lack of beliefs, or worldview in-world to have the author contradict them either way.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

Note that the "two equally valid theories" refers to the question of the vision Kaladin had of Tien absolving him while also explaining that Kaladin never needed that absolution, helping him to reach the Fourth Ideal.

Dalinar could have reached the Beyond to connect Kaladin with the actual-soul-of-departed-Tien, versus some kind of Cognitive/Spiritual Cosmere-model-of-Tien (but where "reaching the Beyond" is something even a double-Shard like Harmony cannot do)...

...but almost certainly, the way Kaladin ended up finding that horse in the junk dealer's stash was through Fortune. How either Tien-Beyond or Cosmere-Model-of-Tien could effectuate that burst of Fortune to Kaladin through the vision is just another secret.

Basically, Fortune is like following a trail of crumbs, laid down by crumbling a cookie. (If you see what I'm getting at. LOL.)

In that light, I suppose Vin pulling off her atium workaround in The Well of Ascension could have been Fortune-based as well. Having that critical insight or intuitive leap, at just the right time.

I do wonder what Compounding Fortune would be like, though. If there is any Intent involved in what Fortune results in, what if you tapped Fortune while burning Allomantic gold to see a very different version of yourself? Haha.

Edited by robardin
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On 10/24/2022 at 11:19 AM, ImportantQuestions said:

I am pretty sure it's not chomium because Hoid isn't a Feruchemist or Ferring as far as I know, and I'm definitely going to open this up into a different thread.

But would anyone rely know is Hoid just didn't show it no one would no just as no one knew alumantuim mistings were a thing

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1 hour ago, spirit, said:

But would anyone rely know is Hoid just didn't show it no one would no just as no one knew alumantuim mistings were a thing

The Cosmere timeline is a bit fuzzy, but it's very likely that Hoid's Fortune-related ability to be where he needs to be predates Feruchemy altogether.

It's always possible that there is more we don't know (there's always another secret!). But Hoid existed before Ruin and Preservation created Scadrial and the people on it, and Feruchemy is uniquely a result of their creation, so he can't be a natural Feruchemist.

Next, we don't know of any other way to become a Feruchemist outside of Hemalurgy or Southern Scadrian medallion technology. The downsides of Hemalurgy seem severe enough for Hoid to avoid it, and the medallion technology is much more recent than many of Hoid's interventions around the Cosmere (so his method of accessing Fortune almost certainly predates it).

Finally, the balanced nature of Feruchemy would make it an awkward way for him to always be where he needed to be. The time he'd need to spend with reduced Fortune, leaving him unable to be where he needed to be and/or more prone to be where he needed to not be, would defeat the purpose. Hoid lives a dangerous life, and an unlucky Hoid's life might also be quite a bit shorter. He wouldn't have had the option of compounding until the events of Secret History, which again is too late into Hoid's timeline to explain his earlier activities.

Edited by Returned
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