C_Vallion Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 Hello, All! Hope 2022 is treating everyone well so far! We've reached the end of Part 2. Hooray! Content Warnings: Language and gore Questions: 1. Does the second half of this chapter feel too repetitive after Is-'s previous chapter? I tried to shift the focus and trim it back to just the details that are making him misinterpret events, but I'm not sure how it comes across. 2. Anything confusing? 3. How are the characters coming across? Does getting into G's head work with his previous character setup? I do think I want to make him more clearly suspicious of magic from the start in the next round of revisions as well, to make his discomfort with the magic here more evident (and to add more weight to his and Is-'s frustrations with one another through Part 2). 4. Specific points of engagement? 5. Any thoughts on the rough arc of Part 2 (starting with Is- arriving in Mal-)? Anything that seemed to be missing? Anything that seemed to get too much focus? I realize this is a tricky question since Chapter 10 was submitted back at the beginning of August, but I figure it doesn't hurt to check. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Hearts Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 As I go: pg 2. I'm interested by the oathband thing, though I don't feel like I have enough to work with for it to be a point of engagement for now pg 4. What does G think that this guy did? I can believe the burst of anger but insisting that he deserves worse than death for finding a horse seems really strange pg 5-6. O is the most interesting character to me so far. I'm worried she's not going to show up much more though so idk if I should get invested pg 6. Seems like G's anger is what he's using to cover guilt but tbh knowing that doesn't make me like him any more--or be any more engaged with his story. It doesn't seem like he's supposed to be fun to hate either pg 7. Damned mages for healing him? I know he was raised in a culture that isn't comfortable with magic but come on dude -uhh should I know C? pg 8. Is there a reason why she's shortening the names? It's not like other words are being shortened for efficiency's sake and it's not exactly a cover code either. pg 12. We make good progress with G finding traces of Is, but I'm not sure what this actually advances in the story. Partially because I don't know how close he is, since for all we know this could be days after Is did the ritual. What should we take away from this chapter? Right now I need a bit more help seeing it. On 1/10/2022 at 11:31 AM, C_Vallion said: 1. Does the second half of this chapter feel too repetitive after Is-'s previous chapter? I tried to shift the focus and trim it back to just the details that are making him misinterpret events, but I'm not sure how it comes across. 2. Anything confusing? 3. How are the characters coming across? Does getting into G's head work with his previous character setup? I do think I want to make him more clearly suspicious of magic from the start in the next round of revisions as well, to make his discomfort with the magic here more evident (and to add more weight to his and Is-'s frustrations with one another through Part 2). 4. Specific points of engagement? 5. Any thoughts on the rough arc of Part 2 (starting with Is- arriving in Mal-)? Anything that seemed to be missing? Anything that seemed to get too much focus? I realize this is a tricky question since Chapter 10 was submitted back at the beginning of August, but I figure it doesn't hurt to check. 1. Nope and partially because I didn't remember all of the details about how the dude died so I was right there with G lol... which means it might have felt repetitive to someone with a better memory. But my instinct is to say it's fine. 2. Nope! 3. As you can see in my LbLs G is uh not my favorite part of this. I think part of it's personal preference, since I rarely like the stern loyal trainer figure even though there are a lot of beloved ones in fiction. What I will say about G here is that he makes too much sense to the point of not feeling distinct. It's natural that he feels guilty about losing Is since that's his duty, it's natural that he covers that with rage, and it's natural that he hates magic since he was raised in a culture that does. Which means his actions here don't give us a ton of insight into who he is. If you want to hammer home being suspicious about magic I think it has to feel personal to him for it to stand out. Not that it has to be a stereotypical "my parents died to magic" or whatever but I think there needs to be something that actively weaves his personal dynamics with magic into the story. O I do like a lot because unlike G she is in a distinct position of straddling two civilizations, and her opinions on what's going on interest me more because of that. 4. Mostly O and the cultural exchange between Gil and M. Which I wasn't sure was the main point so I actively held myself back from focusing heavily on. 5. Hmm for me the main thing is that it doesn't feel like Is' arc has been advanced much and we're just watching her try to survive instead. Like I said before I'm biased against those kinds of stories but I do think there's a lot of that for a character whose arcs are are set up around magic and politics. I'm also still not sure why Ala really matters to the main plot, though I guess I could say that about a lot of PoV characters in epic fantasy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah B Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) Yay landmarks! I have to say I did find the tracking scene of G retracing I's steps a little repetitive. I liked the scene overall, especially there it gave G a chance to show off some expertise. I know you said you have already done pruning on that section, by my 'ear' it needs just a bit more. I didn't find any parts confusing. In fact, I think seeing the communication box working here was much clearer than the previous section's descriptions with R and the sister. Perhaps not so much is needed back there since as the reader we can see it play out in this chapter? I don't know if this was an intentional plant or just a fun idea you threw in, but I found the concept of an oathband potentially being escaped by severing an arm intriguing. Especially in a world with magic healing, this seems like a potentially useful device if an oathband became burdensome or dangerous. Not to be gory, but would removing the skin under it remove the oath band? Or is it deeper in the tissue? This is the most I have liked G so far. In general, I like gruff protector characters so I am an easy mark for this one. Arcs: I can definetly see both I and R going somewhere. This is the first chapter I really got a sense of anything deeper going on for G. I missed a big chunk in the middle, so I can't really speak with any authority. It feels like the plotline back at the starting point is taking a backseat now. Based on how things are moving, I am expecting the MC to travel further into new territory and learn more about magic and her new marks from the judge. As a reader, I am intrigued to see more of what the world is like outside of the MC's home kingdom. Thanks for sharing! Edited January 16, 2022 by Sarah B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatteredsmooth Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 On 1/10/2022 at 11:31 AM, C_Vallion said: 1. Does the second half of this chapter feel too repetitive after Is-'s previous chapter? I tried to shift the focus and trim it back to just the details that are making him misinterpret events, but I'm not sure how it comes across. I didn't think so. I liked knowing what happened while watching him try to piece it together. On 1/10/2022 at 11:31 AM, C_Vallion said: 2. Anything confusing? Yes, but it probably wouldn't be if I'd been following along all along. The names of the spies and the other missing characters, aside from I, didn't mean anything to me since I've missed so many chapters, so I was confused about who was who. And confused about who the main character of this chapter was. But again, that is because I'm just sort of picking up in the middle. On 1/10/2022 at 11:31 AM, C_Vallion said: 3. How are the characters coming across? Does getting into G's head work with his previous character setup? I do think I want to make him more clearly suspicious of magic from the start in the next round of revisions as well, to make his discomfort with the magic here more evident (and to add more weight to his and Is-'s frustrations with one another through Part 2). I liked the narrator in this chapter once I got pas the first couple paragraphs, but I can't comment on anything regarding previous set up. On 1/10/2022 at 11:31 AM, C_Vallion said: 4. Specific points of engagement? I was pretty consistently engaged. So overall, the first two paragraphs seemed really distant and summary, so I wasn't engaged there. Then the rest of it was very engaging. And I was confused about who was who but that is to be expected when jumping into the middle of something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_Vallion Posted January 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Huh. I could have sworn I'd responded to this before now. Oh well. On 1/13/2022 at 10:11 PM, Ace of Hearts said: What does G think that this guy did? Was hoping that him seeing the cloak that he knew Is- had would come across as enough implication that he'd hurt Is-, but maybe not. On 1/13/2022 at 10:11 PM, Ace of Hearts said: pg 5-6. O is the most interesting character to me so far. I'm worried she's not going to show up much more though so idk if I should get invested Figures. I feel like I'm batting 1000 when it comes to side characters being more interesting than MCs. How in the world do I do that? On 1/13/2022 at 10:11 PM, Ace of Hearts said: pg 7. Damned mages for healing him? I know he was raised in a culture that isn't comfortable with magic but come on dude There should have been more build-up about G, specifically, hating magic before this (what was there was WAY back at the beginning, and not very clear). This is a combination of being tense/grumpy/on edge plus general suspicion of magic plus irritation that she's casting spells on him without any real warning. He's also more flippant than others (other than Ro), so "damned mages" doesn't have as much heft behind it as it would if someone else had said it. On 1/13/2022 at 10:11 PM, Ace of Hearts said: pg 8. Is there a reason why she's shortening the names? It's not like other words are being shortened for efficiency's sake and it's not exactly a cover code either. Mostly just a way to distinguish between senders to make it clear that C (the queen's bodyguard. She's the one accompanying Ali- on her little messaging mission) and Ali- are passing the box back and forth on the other end. And it seemed more fitting for a quick note than her tending toward using R and Ali's full titles. On 1/13/2022 at 10:11 PM, Ace of Hearts said: O I do like a lot because unlike G she is in a distinct position of straddling two civilizations, and her opinions on what's going on interest me more because of that. This is important, and I'm glad it comes across, even if she doesn't make a lot of appearances (gotta keep interesting side characters around for spin-off short stories, right? *shrug*) On 1/13/2022 at 10:11 PM, Ace of Hearts said: Mostly O and the cultural exchange between Gil and M. Which I wasn't sure was the main point so I actively held myself back from focusing heavily on. Hah. That's actually one of the main things I was hoping would come across in here, since a lot of Part 3's chapters take place in M. Thanks for the thoughts! I'll get to @Sarah B's and @shatteredsmooth's later today. Edited January 23, 2022 by C_Vallion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_Vallion Posted January 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) On 1/16/2022 at 5:41 AM, Sarah B said: Perhaps not so much is needed back there since as the reader we can see it play out in this chapter? Good point. I'll have to look at how much I have about the message boxes in the earlier chapter. At the time, I hadn't planned to have it as central here, so it's quite possible that some of it can get shifted forward. On 1/16/2022 at 5:41 AM, Sarah B said: I don't know if this was an intentional plant or just a fun idea you threw in, but I found the concept of an oathband potentially being escaped by severing an arm intriguing. Especially in a world with magic healing, this seems like a potentially useful device if an oathband became burdensome or dangerous. Not to be gory, but would removing the skin under it remove the oath band? Or is it deeper in the tissue? Not in any way plot relevant, but I will take every chance to ramble about worldbuilding details that I'm given. So there. Feel free to ignore if you are now regretting your decision to bring the question up. There's also a little more about oath-functioning in chapter 20. which will add some color to some of this. For anyone else who is reading through, gore/amputation discussion below: Spoiler Most Gil- have oathbands tattooed onto them instead of going the divinely-bound route, so there's (in theory) an ongoing question (among those who recognize the difference) of whether the tattooed oathbands count as real oaths at all. As part of this, most tattooed Gil- oaths are more symbolic or vaguely-termed than would be acceptable in other parts of the world. As the world-builder, I can say that this means the gods define the breaking of them based on the intention with which they were made and upheld, but I get to fudge those lines (and the human understanding of said lines) with a bit with a whole lot of "mortals not understanding divine justice" I can guarantee that this is a thing that people have tried before, though. Either in a desperate hope that it might free them from the oath or as a sort of ceremonial spiting of the person who they had the oath to, if that person refuses to release them from it. Though it would be a rather fruitless endeavor either way. [another tricky part of Gil- oaths, is that there's no good way to be "released" from them, since it's just a physical mark. Though V's dad probably wouldn't have been above amputating an arm if a person wanted to be freed from an oath. Some have probably branded over it or found ways to scar it over to point out that it's not longer in effect. Gil- has been doing their tattooed bands for not-quite-a-century, and there are different opinions of magic even within regions in Gil-, so room for a lot of variation there] There are probably also places in the world that have included some sort of amputation as part of judicial ceremonies related to revoking or breaking oaths. Divinely bound oaths/vows definitely can't be severed that way, since the marks are just a physical representation of the magical bond between the oath-taker and the oath-holder(I need to see if I've phrased that differently on-page, and make sure the terms are consistent there.). Since the magical bond isn't broken, there isn't any reason why it wouldn't just manifest itself again further up the arm, or in some other way if the arm was severed at the shoulder (or if someone was born without a full arm). Feel free to poke at any of that for further rambling. I enjoy putting together answers for these sorts of things, since some aspects of the world have only vaguely been defined because I haven't had reasons to push them to their logical ends. On 1/16/2022 at 5:41 AM, Sarah B said: This is the first chapter I really got a sense of anything deeper going on for G. I missed a big chunk in the middle, so I can't really speak with any authority. He's definitely more of a secondary character (maybe even tertiary depending on how you count those things) but I wanted to make sure he had some amount of arc since he is by-necessity going to be pretty closely tied to most of the primary characters. On 1/16/2022 at 5:41 AM, Sarah B said: It feels like the plotline back at the starting point is taking a backseat now. Hopefully that feeling won't be quite as strong once I make the next Part 1 changes, which should tie the magic-laws plotlines and the assassination-attempt plotline and the Cag-threat plotline together more closely. Instead of just dropping the one and moving on, then dropping Cag- in out of nowhere. 22 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said: The names of the spies and the other missing characters, aside from I, didn't mean anything to me since I've missed so many chapters, so I was confused about who was who. And confused about who the main character of this chapter was. But again, that is because I'm just sort of picking up in the middle. This is all entirely fair... I don't know if there's any good way to get around that, though, since the chapter recaps don't mention a lot of the secondary characters and details... I do have a synopsis I put together as part of my writing class in the fall, and could send over the part of that covering Parts 1 and 2, though, if you think it would be helpful. 22 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said: So overall, the first two paragraphs seemed really distant and summary, so I wasn't engaged there. Then the rest of it was very engaging. Good to know. Glad most of it was engaging despite the unavoidable confusion. I'll have to look at the opening when I revise this one and see if there's a good way to start the chapter a little more smoothly. Thanks so much to both of you for your thoughts! Edited January 24, 2022 by C_Vallion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Hearts Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 5 hours ago, C_Vallion said: He's also more flippant than others (other than Ro), so "damned mages" doesn't have as much heft behind it as it would if someone else had said it. This could be a good thing to show since right now I have no reason to not take him at face value. For example if he's grumbling about mages but then tries to do something nice for them after they heal him we get to be like "oh that's just kinda how he is." Not that it has to be this but hopefully you get what I'm saying. I think I dislike him a lot less here if this show he's putting on for himself is undercut in some way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatteredsmooth Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 11 hours ago, C_Vallion said: This is all entirely fair... I don't know if there's any good way to get around that, though, since the chapter recaps don't mention a lot of the secondary characters and details... If you want a beta read on revision, them dm me. I'm not sure how quick I'll be but I'm happy to read the previous chapters to get caught up and give you feedback on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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