KaladinWorldsinger

Unanswered questions and Obscure details from RoW

46 posts in this topic

Ok, Since we have had enough time theorize about the major things from RoW, I thought it would be good to make a thread about the smaller details that doesnt have much discussion. Also, I just finished a reread and I really wanna talk about it. This is a bunch of theory fodder for future speculation too

1) Navani hears a pure note even before meeting raboniel. Even rushu

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She thought, for the briefest moment, she heard a tone in the distance. A pure note vibrating through her.

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Navani got a better glimpse of Shadesmar this time. And again she heard that tone.
That was new, wasn’t it?

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“I didn’t see anything, Brightness,” Rushu said. “But ... I felt something. Like a pulse, a powerful thump. For a moment I felt as if I were falling into eternity....”

How?? And Rushu?? What about Dalinar?

2)Navani created light

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Power flooded Navani. Infused her, making her pain evaporate like water on a hotplate. Together, she and the Sibling created Light.

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Together, Navani and the Sibling could create Light.

She is only singing the rhythm of honor, and singing the rhythm redirects the investiture. Is the sibling using a vacuum tube somewhere? How is light being created? Is there some stormlight being redirected in this scene?

3)Taravangian's Bravery

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Taravangian felt something pushing through his fear, his pain. An emotion he’d never thought to feel himself. Bravery.

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Bravery surged through him, so powerfully he could not help but move. It was the dying courage of a man on the front lines charging an enemy army. The glory of a woman fighting for her child. The feeling of an old man on his last day of life stepping into darkness.
Bravery.

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Passion. Hatred. Today, Taravangian was only passion. Hatred, fear, anger, shame, awe. Bravery.

4 times! 2 times italicized and at the end, the last 'bravery' is separated from all the other passions. Makes no sense to me, why is this important?

4) 

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Szeth was muttering to himself. “How did he know? How did the old fool know?”

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“How did you know my father was dead?” Szeth demanded, striding into the room. “How did you know that Ishar reclaimed his sword? How?”

Taravangian never reveals how he knows szeth's dad died

5) 

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The child’s laughter grew louder, but Szeth found it painful to hear. He winced as the boy jumped up on a rock, then leaped for his granduncle to catch him. And Szeth ... if Szeth
moved too quickly, he could catch sight of his own frail soul, attached incorrectly to his body, trailing his motions like a glowing afterimage.
Why do you hurt? the sword asked.
“I am afraid for the child,” Szeth whispered. “He begins to laugh happily. That will eventually be stolen from him again.”
I like to try to understand laughter, the sword said. I think I can feel it. Happy. Ha! HA! Vivenna always liked my jokes. Even the bad ones.
“The boy’s laughter frightens me,” Szeth said. “Because I am near. And I am … not well.”
He should not guard this child, but he could not bring himself to tell Dalinar, for fear the Blackthorn would send him away.

Hmm interesting, Gav's laughter hurts szeth and szeth feels he is a danger to gav. Hmmmmm

6)

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He shivered, remembering. The blasphemous things they’d chanted— shrouded in dark robes, with spheres affixed to masks to represent glowing eyes—had terrified the boy he’d been. But that hadn’t been the worst. The worst had been what they’d done to try to become Radiants. The things they’d pushed their members to do. His mother had been one of those....

Wonder what horrible things they did?

7)

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Teft dropped his knife—useless against a Blade—and raised his hands. He felt something from Phendorana. A harmony between them.
Teft was forgiven. Teft was forgiven and he was close.
Moash’s Shardblade met something in the air—a phantom spear shaft, barely coalescing between Teft’s hands—and stopped. It threw sparks, but it stopped. Teft gritted his teeth and held on as Moash finally showed an emotion. Surprise. He stumbled back, his eyes wide.
Teft let go, and Phendorana appeared beside him on the ground, puffing from exertion. He felt sweat trickling down his brow. Manifesting her like that—even a little—had been like trying to push an axehound through a keyhole. He wasn’t certain he, or she, could do it a second time.

Close to what, Teft?? Did moash kill another amazing radiant swearing an ideal and getting redemption moment??

8)The Tukari are wreathed in shadows for some reason

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Even with that considered, the way these people seemed to be constantly wreathed in shadow … it was unnerving. As they stepped up, he felt like he could see only hints of features, and no matter which way they turned, the pits of their faces—the eye sockets, the lines along their noses—were always dark. He saw occasional glimpses of their eyes.

9)Odium's connection with Dalinar grows?

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“Our Connection grows, Dalinar,” Odium said. “Stronger by the day. I can reach you now as if you were one of my own. You should be.”
“I will ever and always be my own,” Dalinar said.

Dalinar hasn't been doing anything to serve odium, then his connection should be weakening instead of growing, right?

10) Stone of Ten dawns

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“You’re probably right about the Stormlight,” Veil said. “The honorspren do have a store of it; they let us use it to heal Adolin. Makes me wonder where they obtained all the perfect gemstones to hold it for so long.”
“They’ve had millennia to gather them, little knife,” Mraize said. “And they love gemstones, perhaps for the same reason we admire swords. During the days of the Radiants, some even believed the stories of the Stone of Ten Dawns, and spent lifetimes hunting it.

I am calling it right now, Ba Ado Mishram is trapped in the stone of ten dawns. Purely based on the name

11) Raboniel wanted Venli to find the listeners, which Venli noticed and brings up many times. Raboniel died before Venli found them, but we never find out her plan? The sleeping radiants were revealed to be part of her plan to test anti-stormlight on radiant spren. But we never find out why she manipulated Venli.

12) Lift could use regrowth in Urithiru but not abrasion. The fact that abrasion doesnt work means that its not lifelight or lift's weirdness thats the cause, instead it seems that progression is really cultivation's truest surge, like adhesion to honor. Then Why do the fused have progression and not adhesion?

13) Urithiru is original?

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Venli knelt on the floor of a secluded hallway on the fifteenth floor of Urithiru. The stones whispered to her that the place had once been called Ur. The word meant “original” in the Dawnchant. An ancient place, with ancient stones.

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The stones had not been created by that spren, though a grand project had reshaped them. Reshaped Ur, the original mountain that had been here before. The stones remembered being that mountain. They remembered so many things, which they expressed to Venli.

This is suuuuuper interesting, as we know that Urithiru was placed in the place 'closest to honor'. The valley of the nightwatcher also happens to be nearby. These mountains are special by themselves

14) Axindweth knew jaxlim's mental illness. The only way that makes sense to me is through future sight and fortune. Anyone more well versed in mistborn tell me if feruchemists can have an idea of the future?

15)Szeth gets shocked when he sees that ishar is a shin-like man. Dalinar doesnt think much about, bu we know that shin are the people who remember the history of the world better than everyone. I have a feeling that this revelation is ground breaking for szeth right now.

16)

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But the more she talked with Ulim, the less regard she gave the songs. The old listeners had memorized the wrong things. How could they retain the names of the Unmade, but forget something as simple as how to adopt workform?

Very good question Venli, why didn't they? workform and warform are not forms of power, so there isn't a reason not to remember how to get them.

17) The titles of the 5 parts of RoW combined give the ketek by el at the end. It is clearly talking about urithiru, which shows us that el cares about urithiru and thinks of it as a home. Thats a problem

18)

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“You say my ancestors were traitors,” Venli whispered. “But you need us.If they hadn’t split off, you wouldn’t have us to use in your plot. You should bless what they did.”
They got lucky. Doesn’t mean they weren’t traitors.
“Perhaps they knew what Ba-Ado-Mishram was going to do, and so they attuned Wisdom, not Betrayal, in their actions.”

Venli suggests that the listeners knew what would happen. We know they knew about the everstorm, did they really know what was going to happen?

20) Jasnah says she could be the last alethi ruler. Is that foreshadowing for back 5? A democratic revolution?

21) Cultivation + Odium = Freedom

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The tone snapped into her mind, Cultivation and Odium mixing into a harmony, and it thrummed through Venli. She opened her eyes as power spread from her through the stones. They began to shake and vibrate to the sound of her rhythm, liquid, forming peaks and valleys in time with the music. The floor, ceiling, and walls before her rippled, and a trail of people formed from the stone. Moving, alive again, as they strode away from pain, and war, and killing.
Freedom. The stones whispered to her of freedom.

That is how i read it anyway

22) 

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Clean and white, like the light of the brightest diamond. The light of the sun. A brilliant, concentrated purity.

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Kaladin knelt, bathed in that warm light. Yes, warmth. Kaladin felt warm. Surely … if there truly was a deity … it watched him from within that light.

This kind of language is only used with Dalinar, with his warmth that he thinks of as a god. What is interesting is that that Renarin is causing this, which is a first. Maybe something to do with the spiritual realm? 

23) A Death rattle solved??

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Their numbers seemed endless. A fungus on the land ahead, black and white and red, weapons glistening in the sun.

This is when Jasnah goes to war. Her description is very suspiciously similar to a death rattle

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Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red. 

So now we know what the army is that the ten radiants are facing. Its the singer army. with maybe some humans(iriali)

 

 

wow this became huuuge. these are all the obscure details I could find in the Book. Did i miss any?

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Navani and the Sibling are probably creating towerlight by pulling from the SR. 

The Stone of Ten Dawns is said to have been shattered, so that's something to note.

In my mind, Lift could use Progression because she's using Regrowth, rather than Growth. The Magnified Ones have only shown the latter, so it's feasible that, like Reverse Lashings, the Sibling's defence didn't account for the ability. 

(I assumed Axindweth was a Sleepless, apparently not!)

Renarin uses Fortune to see the future, which is tied to the Spiritual Realm. His power, in that instance, also showed the "perfect state" of Moash, further connecting it to the SR.

Edited by Milk
Correction
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59 minutes ago, Milk said:

The Stone of Ten Dawns is said to have been shattered, so that's something to note.

Oh my god, I had no idea this gemstone was a thing before row. I totally forgot. I somehow feel more confident about the idea after reading the coppermind article lol 

1 hour ago, Milk said:

In my mind, Lift could use Progression because she's using Regrowth, rather than Growth. The Magnified Ones have only shown the latter, so it's feasible that, like Reverse Lashings, the Sibling's defence didn't account for the ability. 

Reverse lashings worked because it is  adhesion mixed with gravitation, right? That's how I saw it anyway. Growth and regrowth are pure progression. Also lift may have used growth in row, I am not sure

1 hour ago, Milk said:

Axindweth is a Sleepless

How do we know this? Are you thinking of Arclo the sleepless?

1 hour ago, Milk said:

Renarin uses Fortune to see the future, which is tied to the Spiritual Realm. His power, in that instance, also showed the "perfect state" of Moash, further connecting it to the SR.

Ya that was what I thought too

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1 minute ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Reverse lashings worked because it is  adhesion mixed with gravitation, right? That's how I saw it anyway. Growth and regrowth are pure progression. Also lift may have used growth in row, I am not sure

That's what Kal and Syl suspect. I don't think Lift used Growth during the invasion, though.

2 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

How do we know this? Are you thinking of Arclo the sleepless?

Oh dang, that's my bad! I just instantly suspected her as one when she introduced herself, and didn't bother to check.

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6 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

 

23) A Death rattle solved??

This is when Jasnah goes to war. Her description is very suspiciously similar to a death rattle

So now we know what the army is that the ten radiants are facing. Its the singer army. with maybe some humans(iriali)

It's not referring to Jasnah, or any other Radiants, it's talking about the Heralds

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7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

4 times! 2 times italicized and at the end, the last 'bravery' is separated from all the other passions. Makes no sense to me, why is this important?

I saw an interesting suggestion with this: The lines immediately preceding the emotion sound like they might be external in source, the description is extremely reminiscent structurally of the descriptions of Shardic Intents such as Odium and the Mistborn ones, the lines are all not just bravery but specifically selfless bravery and glory, and the one Shard that Harmony suggested might be most willing to help if Hoid approached her again was Valor...

49 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It's not referring to Jasnah, or any other Radiants, it's talking about the Heralds

I don't believe this is confirmed? (I mean, it seems likely, but then almost all the Death Rattles are about the future and not the past, so...)

7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

How is light being created?

Probably pulled from the Spiritual, I'd guess, same as when Stormfather makes Stormlight.

7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

15)Szeth gets shocked when he sees that ishar is a shin-like man. Dalinar doesnt think much about, bu we know that shin are the people who remember the history of the world better than everyone. I have a feeling that this revelation is ground breaking for szeth right now.

Wasn't that due to the Honorblade, which last he saw it had been in the hands of his father?

7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Taravangian never reveals how he knows szeth's dad died

I forget, why does Szeth think he knew, again?

7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Close to what, Teft?? Did moash kill another amazing radiant swearing an ideal and getting redemption moment??

Probably, though I dunno if Teft was really getting redemption in that scene considering he'd been pushing through things for a while now.

7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

12) Lift could use regrowth in Urithiru but not abrasion. The fact that abrasion doesnt work means that its not lifelight or lift's weirdness thats the cause, instead it seems that progression is really cultivation's truest surge, like adhesion to honor. Then Why do the fused have progression and not adhesion?

Imo, Odium's lying when he says he can't grant Adhesion, he just doesn't want to give the Fused the potential to Connect to another source of power and remove their dependence on him.

7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

This is suuuuuper interesting, as we know that Urithiru was placed in the place 'closest to honor'. The valley of the nightwatcher also happens to be nearby. These mountains are special by themselves

Huh, weirddd....

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8 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Wonder what horrible things they did?

 

Words of Radiance explains this. Teft tells someone else from Bridge Four what the Envisagers did in detail while they watch and wait hopefully for Kaladin and Shallan to return from falling into the chasm. I can't reproduce them all here, but it's in that book.

39 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:
8 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Taravangian never reveals how he knows szeth's dad died

I forget, why does Szeth think he knew, again?

Taravangian simply tells Szeth "Your father is dead." We don't know how he knows, but he makes it very clear to Szeth.

 

5 hours ago, Milk said:

Axindweth is a Sleepless; she could have easily snuck a hordeling into Venli's residence.

 

Actually, considering the syntax of her name, I think it can be assumed (or at least, theorized) that she is a Terriswoman Worldhopper. I think it's a very Terris name. Would be nice if we knew more of her story...

 

8 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

15)Szeth gets shocked when he sees that ishar is a shin-like man. Dalinar doesnt think much about, bu we know that shin are the people who remember the history of the world better than everyone. I have a feeling that this revelation is ground breaking for szeth right now.

 

It also goes to show that society's depictions of the Heralds are very skewed by perception and revised history. I figured Szeth was surprised at seeing Ishar as a white guy (Shin) for the same reason Dalinar was surprised to find out Jezrien was darkeyed -- they'd never had any reason to believe it before because of what society taught of their appearances.

 

8 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

21) Cultivation + Odium = Freedom

Quote

That's a really interesting takeaway. The Rhythm of Freedom, perhaps?

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47 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I don't believe this is confirmed? (I mean, it seems likely, but then almost all the Death Rattles are about the future and not the past, so...)

Huh, suppose it isn't.

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3 minutes ago, Firerust said:

Taravangian simply tells Szeth "Your father is dead." We don't know how he knows, but he makes it very clear to Szeth.

Huh, that is weird. Maybe the Diagram had spies there and he knew about the fall of the Shin prior to disbanding?

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8 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

7)

Close to what, Teft?? Did moash kill another amazing radiant swearing an ideal and getting redemption moment??

The fourth ideal. That was why he showed more abilities. He had advanced.

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3 hours ago, Frustration said:

It's not referring to Jasnah, or any other Radiants, it's talking about the Heralds

It does say shardblades alight, and I don't think there is any confirmation one way or the other

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

saw an interesting suggestion with this: The lines immediately preceding the emotion sound like they might be external in source, the description is extremely reminiscent structurally of the descriptions of Shardic Intents such as Odium and the Mistborn ones, the lines are all not just bravery but specifically selfless bravery and glory, and the one Shard that Harmony suggested might be most willing to help if Hoid approached her again was Valor

I did think about valor while writing that, but that seemed out of left field, so I decided not to. Anything valor-related seems to be later stage cosmere and roshar is stuffed with shards anyway.

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Wasn't that due to the Honorblade, which last he saw it had been in the hands of his father?

 

1 hour ago, Firerust said:

It also goes to show that society's depictions of the Heralds are very skewed by perception and revised history. I figured Szeth was surprised at seeing Ishar as a white guy (Shin) for the same reason Dalinar was surprised to find out Jezrien was darkeyed -- they'd never had any reason to believe it before because of what society taught of their appearances

When Dalinar and co see ishar for the first time, szeth is shocked to see ishar's ethnicity is shin. Normally in roshar, the heralds are depicted alethi and Dalinar thinks that that explains the shock. But the shin are not a normal society, they are isolationists who remember ancient history. They kept the secrets of the heralds( the betrayal of the oathpact). Suffice to say, they know stuff. I think it's very likely that shin don't respect the heralds in the same way. Maybe it's shin propoganda that no herald was shin. The ethnicity of ishar was kept hidden from the general shin public.

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Probably, though I dunno if Teft was really getting redemption in that scene considering he'd been pushing through things for a while now.

In teft's own eyes, I think. 

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Imo, Odium's lying when he says he can't grant Adhesion, he just doesn't want to give the Fused the potential to Connect to another source of power and remove their dependence on him.

I definitely think this is true as I don't think odium wants a bondsmith orBAM situation. But, during the occupation of urithiru, Kal's adhesions work while his gravitation is severely limited. Also his reverse lashings ( a mix of adhesion and gravitation) works. Meaning adhesion is inherently special. So progression seems to be same

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Huh, weirddd....

Right??

1 hour ago, Firerust said:

Actually, considering the syntax of her name, I think it can be assumed (or at least, theorized) that she is a Terriswoman Worldhopper. I think it's a very Terris name. Would be nice if we knew more of her story...

Also, she has many rings on her hands. Smells of feruchemy to me. What do u mean, the syntax of her name?

1 hour ago, Firerust said:

That's a really interesting takeaway. The Rhythm of Freedom, perhaps?

Perhaps. It does fit in my head.

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Huh, that is weird. Maybe the Diagram had spies there and he knew about the fall of the Shin prior to disbanding?

If there is a spy, I am really interested, because the rest are based in kharbranth, and we don't see anything about this spy ever

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

The fourth ideal. That was why he showed more abilities. He had advanced.

I don't think it's confirmed, but that was what I was implying. Teft would have been the first to say the fourth ideal! Now I am really sad. Would his ideal be, ' I accept I deserve love?'

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Imo, Odium's lying when he says he can't grant Adhesion, he just doesn't want to give the Fused the potential to Connect to another source of power and remove their dependence on him.

I dont think he's neccesarily lying. I think it might be like the Atium/Preservation situation

There is a WoB that one could reproduce an ability like Atium using the power of Preservation, but it wouldnt be as easy or natural as using Preservation for Allomancy.

i think the same thing goes for Odium. He prob could grant/create an ability like Adhesion, but it would probably require him to apply his power in a way he wouldnt like.

 

1 hour ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

What do u mean, the syntax of her name?

Syntax is just like... the way you spell things. The name Axindweth, its makeup is verrry Terris.

Edited by Eternal Khol
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3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I did think about valor while writing that, but that seemed out of left field, so I decided not to. Anything valor-related seems to be later stage cosmere and roshar is stuffed with shards anyway.

I don't think they'll be a major Shard in SA if so, just a scene or two like that and maybe a letter, but I do think it'd be a smart move on Brandon's part to demonstrate why Valor is its own independent Shard of the sixteen, instead of being included in Honor and Odium or Honor and Devotion or something.

2 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

i think the same thing goes for Odium. He prob could grant/create an ability like Adhesion, but it would probably require him to apply his power in a way he wouldnt like.

Why would that be the case for Adhesion but not Progression, which has demonstrated similar weirdness via Lift and matches Cultivation's Intent similarly closely to how Adhesion matches Honor's?

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38 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Why would that be the case for Adhesion but not Progression, which has demonstrated similar weirdness via Lift and matches Cultivation's Intent similarly closely to how Adhesion matches Honor's?

You cannot use Lift to draw conclusions from. She does not use Stormlight. That invalidates all conclusions as Venli could use Cohesion with Voidlight, but not with Stormlight. The fuel matters, beyond a doubt.

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Just now, Oltux72 said:

You cannot use Lift to draw conclusions from. She does not use Stormlight. That invalidates all conclusions as Venli could use Cohesion with Voidlight, but not with Stormlight. The fuel matters, beyond a doubt.

Venli can use Voidlight for either Surge, but only Progression worked with Lift. So while fuel matters, it's not the answer in this case.

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Just now, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Venli can use Voidlight for either Surge, but only Progression worked with Lift. So while fuel matters, it's not the answer in this case.

You can't even say that. She did not teleport or go to Shadesmar. We are adding an alarming number of unknowns here. Technically we could not even rule out that each Order has a primary and a secondary Surge and only one of them works fully.

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1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

You can't even say that. She did not teleport or go to Shadesmar. We are adding an alarming number of unknowns here. Technically we could not even rule out that each Order has a primary and a secondary Surge and only one of them works fully.

Venli does use Transportation, though? She uses it to see if voidspren are watching, and spots Tumi. 

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

You can't even say that. She did not teleport or go to Shadesmar. We are adding an alarming number of unknowns here. Technically we could not even rule out that each Order has a primary and a secondary Surge and only one of them works fully.

Venli checks Shadesmar multiple times throughout the book while the suppressor is on.

Edit: ah, ninja'd :ph34r:

Edited by LewsTherinTelescope
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6 minutes ago, Milk said:

Venli does use Transportation, though? She uses it to see if voidspren are watching, and spots Tumi. 

  1. Not with Stormlight
  2. Not to the full extent. Kaladin also uses Gravitation. Just not alone. For all we know Lift could have increased friction.
  3. Not necessarily Transportation alone. Cohesion also talks to cognitive and spiritual aspects.

Simply too many unknowns.

  1. Fused can use some surges with Voidlight
  2. Venli can use Cohesion with Voidlight
  3. Venli cannot use Cohesion with Stormlight
  4. Venli can use some Transportation with Voidlight
  5. Kaladin can use Adhesion with Stormlight
  6. Kaladin + Teft cannot use Gravitation alone
  7. Kaladin can use Gravitation + Adhesion

If you go with the observations only, for all we know Abrasion just does not work while that fabrial is active. I do not assume that. But it is an assumption. If we wanted to show that Abrasion works, we would have no evidence.

Looking at the variables we have:

  • source of power - Fused versus Nahel bond
  • source of power - three different lights
  • Surge to be used

Too many unknowns.

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4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:
  • source of power - Fused versus Nahel bond
  • source of power - three different lights
  • Surge to be used

Perhaps the original suppressor didn't simply block Surges, but instead their applications as used by the Fused? Thus Adhesion, Reverse Lashing, and Regrowth wasn't blocked, and when Raboniel corrupted the Sibling, they could still function. I would imagine non-Voidlight Surgebinding was blocked.

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I was confused and such when Sibling began creating Light too, as it contradicted what we know. But I feel it works as in like, we know that Urithiru was built on the "place closest to Honor", therefore is likely close to a Perpendicularity, or something. Therefore it can use this to be able to help to draw in Stormlight. Not entirely sure about Lifelight, but it obviously comes from somewhere. But, as you yourself mentioned, it is close to the Nightwatcher as well, which is an extremely life-dense area. It might contain another Perpendicularity of Cultivation. 

This would make sense, as we do also know that Felt says that in the Valley, you are completely at the mercy of the power of the Nightwatcher (and Cultivation), so it is very possible it is a secondary Perpendicularity. 

 

Quote

“They’ve had millennia to gather them, little knife,” Mraize said. “And they love gemstones, perhaps for the same reason we admire swords. During the days of the Radiants, some even believed the stories of the Stone of Ten Dawns, and spent lifetimes hunting it.

I thought that that might be the Dawnshard, but Mraize should know that it is real and has been found, so he wouldn't talk of it like it is a completely myth like this. It might have to do with Ba-ado-mishram. 

 

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Lift could use regrowth in Urithiru but not abrasion. The fact that abrasion doesnt work means that its not lifelight or lift's weirdness thats the cause, instead it seems that progression is really cultivation's truest surge, like adhesion to honor. Then Why do the fused have progression and not adhesion?

 On this part, I thought this was the case before, Regrowth fits perfectly with Cultivation's Intent. 

Also, on why they have it, I noticed that if you look at the glyphs for the different Lights, the ones for Cultivation and Odium are very, very similar, while the one for Honor is very divergent. Some connection between Cultivation and Odium seems to run rather deep. 

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Axindweth knew jaxlim's mental illness. The only way that makes sense to me is through future sight and fortune. Anyone more well versed in mistborn tell me if feruchemists can have an idea of the future?

They should be able to, Chromium allows for the storage of Fortune, which we know can allow one to see into the future if used correctly. The Terris in general don't really understand this, but as a Worldhopper it is very possible Axindweth is far more knowing of the more deep nature of her abilities. 

 

 

 

 

One thing I do wonder, is that Cultivationspren seem to be closest to Cultivation, they refer to her as mother, share a name (much like Honorspren with Honor), and also do have access to Progression. The issue is, it is their Secondary Surge, while Abrasion is their first. Though Edgedancers are also known as being focused healers. It is just odd that the primary surge of the Honorspren is the Surge of Honor, but the Secondary Surge of the Cultivationspren is the Surge of Cultivation.

However, this doesn't exactly contradict the idea, everything else fits together, Edgedancers are very connected to healing, and also Lift, and Edgedancer, is the one given the ability to use Lifelight by Cultivation.

Along with this, it kinda seems as if primary surge shifts direction at the bottom half in general, For example, Elsecallers, on the bottom half, seem to have Transportation be their primary Surge, despite the pattern making it seem as if it should be Transformation. 

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As to the other orders that were inferior in this visiting of the far realm of spren, the Elsecallers were prodigiously benevolent, allowing others as auxiliary to their visits and interactions; though they did never relinquish their place as prime liaisons with the great ones of the spren; and the Lightweavers and Willshapers both also had an affinity to the same, though neither were true masters of that realm. 

Though this pattern does not appear to apply to Dustbringers, who seem to have the primary surge follow the pattern of the top half. I need to look more into this. 

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3 hours ago, Zoey said:

The issue is, it is their Secondary Surge, while Abrasion is their first.

WoB is that that's mostly just a meta thing to avoid overwhelming readers, more than a hard and fast rule on the way things work. (For example, while Shallan is horrid at Soulcasting, this is explicitly noted in-world to mostly just be a thing she personally is not good at and the rest are better, as opposed to an order-wide thing.)

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7 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

WoB is that that's mostly just a meta thing to avoid overwhelming readers, more than a hard and fast rule on the way things work. (For example, while Shallan is horrid at Soulcasting, this is explicitly noted in-world to mostly just be a thing she personally is not good at and the rest are better, as opposed to an order-wide thing.)

I mean, you do also have ones with known primary Surges, such as Edgedancers with Progression, and Elsecallers with Transportation. These are made quite obvious in canon with how it was with all the old Knights Radiants. So it does still exist to an extent. 

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8 hours ago, Zoey said:

I mean, you do also have ones with known primary Surges, such as Edgedancers with Progression, and Elsecallers with Transportation. These are made quite obvious in canon with how it was with all the old Knights Radiants. So it does still exist to an extent. 

I'm pretty sure Venli has used Transportation far more than Jasnah xD

And I think that's just because Abrasion makes you slippery while Progression heals the dead, one of those is a bigger deal to focus on than the other. 

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8 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I'm pretty sure Venli has used Transportation far more than Jasnah xD

And I think that's just because Abrasion makes you slippery while Progression heals the dead, one of those is a bigger deal to focus on than the other. 

I mean, again

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As to the other orders that were inferior in this visiting of the far realm of spren, the Elsecallers were prodigiously benevolent, allowing others as auxiliary to their visits and interactions; though they did never relinquish their place as prime liaisons with the great ones of the spren; and the Lightweavers and Willshapers both also had an affinity to the same, though neither were true masters of that realm. 

Words of Radiance, Chapter 53, Epigraph

We know they are canonically the best order at Transportation. Willshapers can do it, but they are known to be less skilled with it than Elsecallers. 

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