Frustration

aether
Reguarding the Aethers

27 posts in this topic

So recently Brando Sando has given increased attention to the Aethers, and as we rapidly apporach the Space age of the Cosmere they are going to become ever more relevant so what Aethers will make the cut, and which will not.

Also Aether of Night spoiler warning in case that wasn't clear.

 

So in Aether of Night there were 6 Aethers

  1. Verdant
  2. Amberite
  3. Corprite
  4. Beastarian
  5. Illumous
  6. Night

However not all Aethers made the cut

Spoiler

Questioner

Are there still six different types of Aethers in current canon? Or has that changed?

Brandon Sanderson

They have expanded. I’m using the Aethers behind the scenes for a lot of space age things. And because I’m doing that, I am adding in a few more Aethers. There’s going to be some limits on this. I’m tweaking which Aethers I’m actually making, ‘cause some of them didn’t work as well as other ones.

There will end up being more, but I won’t canonize the number until I have the Aether book ready to release.

Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov. 18, 2020)

 

I think the one most likely to get cut is Beastarian, as it never really fit with the others, Night and Illumous are also suspect as Brandon seems to be leaning towards them not being from a Shard.

Spoiler

Pagerunner

Are the Aethers from one of the Shards that we know? Or are they of a Shard we haven't learned about?

Brandon Sanderson

Right now they are pre-Shattering.

But I will probably change that.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

Foxblade

What are your current thoughts on Silence Divine? The setting and magic are some of my favorite to visualize so I'm always crossing my fingers you'll want to do something with it. It just hits all the right checkboxes for "cool" and with Dawnshard's release, well I was hoping it might be on the radar...

Brandon Sanderson

It's on my radar, yes, as are the two other Cosmere novellas I want to write. (A sequel to Emperor's Soul and one to Sixth of the Dusk that I've actually started.)

Problem is, it's hard to find slots for these things. We'll see. Not forgotten, certainly.

Foxblade

I don't know why, (an old WOB?) but I thought we would only be dealing with Sixth in the background from now on, so a sequel is awesome to hear.

Brandon Sanderson

The Sixth sequel is him exploring Shadesmar. I have a scene done, but it involves some pretty big spoilers for space age cosmere, as within a few years of the story that happened, there is a lot more going on in relation to other worlds. So I'm not sure if it's wise to continue it at this point.

n122333

I know I'm a minority in this, but I love normal humans in a magic world. While Sixth has no investiture, the world is still fantastic and has the air of mystery.

Will we see other cosmere settings where the people don't have magic, but the world does, like in Sixth, and shadows?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you will see more like this. (Many of the settings that involve Aethers can be like this, for example.)

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

However some Aethers are arguably near Hoid's level of power even if not quite there

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

Hoid is his own level of dangerous. Any rivals to his ambition/power?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Depends. Some Yolish dragons are as old/crafty. Could argue the Aethers are as ancient or potentially powerful. I would not put them at Shard level but they would claim they are. There are some other characters but none on Hoid's level.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

So I think those two are safe, even if they might not appear in their current form.

I'm pretty confident in Amberite and Corprite being safe, especially as spacecraft become important.

 

So we have 5 Aethers, but Brandon has said we can excpect to see 12

Spoiler

Phillip Denny

Is there a "how the sausage is made" reason why there are 16 Shards, instead of 15 or 17?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it splits really nice on a table. When I was developing the Cosmere in general, I was looking for... the division of multiples of 2 is just so much fun for designing things like the Allomantic Table. You can do that with 10, you can do that with 15, yes. I find aesthetically pleasing the way that 16, 8, and groups of 4 work, and that's how I arrived at that number.

I also did have some kind of boundaries on myself. I needed it to be a large enough number that it could cover the full group that I wanted to do in Dragonsteel, but it had to be small enough that people could track them all. 16 is a little on the high end for that, but doable, I believe. Particularly since you really only have to track all 16 when I write the Dragonsteel stories. (You'll really have to track 17 because we have Hoid, who did not take one.) But lately, you have at least one of the Shards being combined, and others of the Shards no longer being relevant to the course of stories, and things like that. So you won't actually, in the future, have to track 1.

But it was a nice number for what I wanted to do; not too big, not too small, and I liked how the divisions broke down. And I knew I was going to do 10 with Roshar by that point. If I was gonna pick 10, I would have to use 10 again in Mistborn, which I could do, but I wanted to have different themes. I wanted their tables and math to look a little different visually on the page, since they were two pillars. So 10 and 16 felt like the two good pillars. The Aether world is a 12 world, so we'll have a 12 also. The Aether world does not play into things nearly as much, but it'll depend on how many books I write using the Aethers in the future.

YouTube Livestream 23 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

We also know that Aethers have reached multiple worlds,

Spoiler

LewsTherinTelescope

Are the aethers native to multiple worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

Currently, no - but they have spread + they claim to be not from any world.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

So I think it's safe to conclude that at least one of them grants the ability to cross realmatic barriers, though whether this will be included in Illumous and Night I can't say.

 

Additionally We can be fairly certain that they will keep their paired opposites dinamic as Khriss thinks that the discovery of Anti-investiture to be of great importance.

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6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Additionally We can be fairly certain that they will keep their paired opposites dinamic as Khriss thinks that the discovery of Anti-investiture to be of great importance.

It might also be that Khriss theorized that the aethers were not actually opposites, but most assumed they were. Similar to how Raboniel thought that Odium and Honor were opposites. So not paired opposites per se, but similar to allomancy's push and pull mechanics.

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Just now, Nameless said:

It might also be that Khriss theorized that the aethers were not actually opposites, but most assumed they were. Similar to how Raboniel thought that Odium and Honor were opposites. So not paired opposites per se, but similar to allomancy's push and pull mechanics.

I completly missed that, good job.

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Posted (edited)

I think Verdant will stay a thing.

In one WoB(2018), someone asked about the different manifestations of Investiture(solid, liquid and gas) and if we would see Investiture plastic or wood(other forms besides the 3), and then Brandon brings up the Aethers and said "what do you call the Aethers? Those are not metal" and also mentions "the vine ones" specifcally not being metal.

Edited by Eternal Khol
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Is it normal this is in Cosmere discussion and not in Unpublished? If yes it would probably be a good idea to give a reminder of what the Aether do, considering most people here haven't read AoN and the wiki doesn't have a list of the Aether's powers.

To help with the discussion, is an Aether able to create pink crystals or one know to create hard-to-wash stains ?

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Is it normal this is in Cosmere discussion and not in Unpublished?

Normal no.

Allowed Yes.

11 minutes ago, mathiau said:

 If yes it would probably be a good idea to give a reminder of what the Aether do, considering most people here haven't read AoN and the wiki doesn't have a list of the Aether's powers.

Sure thing

  1. Verdant allows the user to create vines, like an organic version of spiderman
  2. Amberite allows it's user to create rock-like growths on their skin, and force them to fall off, this is used to make weapons and armor
  3. Beastarian allows you to graft animal parts over your injuries
  4. Corprate allows one to turn themselves into a machine, such as a walker, heater or even just a support beam, called corprates, however this change is perminent.
  5. Illumous allows one to teleport other people
  6. Night allows one to teleport themselves, and others if they are close enough

 

11 minutes ago, mathiau said:

To help with the discussion, is an Aether able to create pink crystals or one know to create hard-to-wash stains ?

Amberite is similar, though it was more of an amber color

Edited by Frustration
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Posted (edited)

32 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Normal no.

Allowed Yes.

I meant "normal" as "intended". I'll take your answer as a yes.

Quote

Amberite allows it's user to create rock-like growths on their skin, and force them to fall off, this is used to make weapons and armor

From the name I assume it's not the same colour as Mraize's crystal?

Quote

Beastarian allows you to graft animal parts over your injuries

Corprate allows one to turn themselves into a machine, such as a walker, heater or even just a support beam, called corprates, however this change is perminent.

Yeah, these ones are wierd.

Quote

Illumous allows one to teleport other people

Night allows one to teleport themselves, and others if they are close enough

Why do you think these two are suspect? We know both Honour and the Dor can grant different forms of teleportation (Devotion could almost certainly grant it by herself but that's another subject) and if they're like Aon Tia they'll be more relevant to Space Age Cosmere than any of the other Aethers

Edited by mathiau
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56 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Amberite is similar, though it was more of an amber color

Amberite was actually always described as a rose(y) color. Which if you look up the actual Rose color hex triplet(#FF0080) it really is a pink.

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21 hours ago, Frustration said:

However some Aethers are arguably near Hoid's level of power even if not quite there

I think you are confused by two uses of the concept of aether. One of the aethers as far as we have seen one, is a portable crystal. Aethers grant Invested Arts or aspect of an Invested Art. That is another discussion. We must assume that they are Invested to a greater extent than an animal or human would be. So what happens if you put together a mountain of these crystals? Do you get something close to a perpendicularity? In addition, Investiture seeks sapience. If the pieces do not bond sapient creatures, will you eventually get a sapient being, likely also confusingly called an aether?

 

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1 hour ago, mathiau said:

Why do you think these two are suspect? We know both Honour and the Dor can grant different forms of teleportation (Devotion could almost certainly grant it by herself but that's another subject) and if they're like Aon Tia they'll be more relevant to Space Age Cosmere than any of the other Aethers

I completly forgot Aon Tia.

The reason I find them sucpect is that they were the shard Aethers in the original text, however without a shard anymore it kind of leaves them in a weird state.

20 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

I think you are confused by two uses of the concept of aether. One of the aethers as far as we have seen one, is a portable crystal. Aethers grant Invested Arts or aspect of an Invested Art. That is another discussion. We must assume that they are Invested to a greater extent than an animal or human would be. So what happens if you put together a mountain of these crystals? Do you get something close to a perpendicularity? In addition, Investiture seeks sapience. If the pieces do not bond sapient creatures, will you eventually get a sapient being, likely also confusingly called an aether?

From what I understand the new Aethers are sentient.

34 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Amberite was actually always described as a rose(y) color. Which if you look up the actual Rose color hex triplet(#FF0080) it really is a pink.

You're right.

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Correct me if I am wrong, as I am going on recollection and it has been awhile. Didn't Aethers grow and bud off? So couldn't there be like a central mass that is "the" AETHER, that then buds off parts of itself, that people then are given. So then they use "their" aether. So the central AETHER would be the individuals that Brandon is referring to that is close to Hoid's power? (used caps to denote the aether source versus aether spawn) 

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54 minutes ago, Frustration said:

From what I understand the new Aethers are sentient.

They are. In aggregate. Like the Sleepless. One bud/bug is stupid. The aggregate/swarm is sapient.

32 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Correct me if I am wrong, as I am going on recollection and it has been awhile. Didn't Aethers grow and bud off?

Two of them did. Two did not and the other two were unknown.

32 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

So couldn't there be like a central mass that is "the" AETHER, that then buds off parts of itself, that people then are given. So then they use "their" aether. So the central AETHER would be the individuals that Brandon is referring to that is close to Hoid's power? (used caps to denote the aether source versus aether spawn) 

Indeed.

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31 minutes ago, Frustration said:

From what I understand the new Aethers are sentient.

From the WoB you gave I'd say the Aethers beings similar to BAM or the Stormfather except most of their investiture is in the SR so people can use them offworld

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On 1/5/2022 at 1:04 PM, Frustration said:

I think the one most likely to get cut is Beastarian, as it never really fit with the others,

I took Brandon's comment to mean that not all the ones he played with adding got kept (for example, Syl is probably not going to show up on Lor anymore lmao), but agreed that if he does mean he cut some of the original six, Bestarin is likely to have not made it. 

On 1/5/2022 at 1:04 PM, Frustration said:

Night and Illumous are also suspect as Brandon seems to be leaning towards them not being from a Shard.

I still have no idea what the heck is actually going on with Order and Chaos... they seem almost like Ruin and Preservation, except for the fact that Decay is completely separate from them. Sub-Shards of the Former, maybe? Except the Former still has full power, seemingly, despite Order and Chaos (called "that which makes", iirc) existing separately.... So Night and Illuminous are not actually associated with opposite Shards, just opposite... Splinters? Sub-Intents? Something else? Oh, except someone with powers from Chaos touching the Verdant source is fatal iirc.... which makes no sense if Order and Chaos are the same Shard. (Also, Order and Chaos get referred to as Sha and Lum at one point, which based on the Conqueror sample chapter from MB Prime seem to have become Ruin and Pres, so it makes even less sense. I have no goddamn clue what to make of them and have agonized over this for months lmao.)

If I had to guess, I think Night and Illuminous will still be around, but perhaps renamed, and as just teleportation instead of raw divine power like they currently are. 

On 1/5/2022 at 1:14 PM, Nameless said:

It might also be that Khriss theorized that the aethers were not actually opposites, but most assumed they were. Similar to how Raboniel thought that Odium and Honor were opposites. So not paired opposites per se, but similar to allomancy's push and pull mechanics.

This seems most likely to me. Though it's still sorta weird. But then, the fact anti-Investiture is relevant to controlling them at all is weird. 

On 1/6/2022 at 8:57 AM, mathiau said:

If yes it would probably be a good idea to give a reminder of what the Aether do, considering most people here haven't read AoN and the wiki doesn't have a list of the Aether's powers

I wrote up a post on it some time back, if that helps. 

Quote

To help with the discussion, is an Aether able to create pink crystals or one know to create hard-to-wash stains ?

Crystal is probably Amberite, as others mentioned. Basically budget Shardplate and Shardblade. Lets the user grow magic super strong crystals from it. 

The stain... possibly also Amberite? The crystals dissolve into dust, if I recall correctly, so maybe those stain?

On 1/6/2022 at 11:39 AM, Oltux72 said:

They are. In aggregate. Like the Sleepless. One bud/bug is stupid. The aggregate/swarm is sapient.

We see a bit of them in the Liar of Partinel sample chapters, and they seem to all start sapient, but lose both power and their minds over time and/or as they're transferred. Unclear if this is how it remains in canon or not. 

On 1/6/2022 at 11:06 AM, Pathfinder said:

Correct me if I am wrong, as I am going on recollection and it has been awhile. Didn't Aethers grow and bud off? So couldn't there be like a central mass that is "the" AETHER, that then buds off parts of itself, that people then are given. So then they use "their" aether. So the central AETHER would be the individuals that Brandon is referring to that is close to Hoid's power? (used caps to denote the aether source versus aether spawn) 

Quite plausible. If I remember, we see the source of the Verdant aethers in AoN, and it's a giant vine thing that presumably the others got split off of. So those are probably the ancient crafty powerful ones. 

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On 6.1.2022 at 7:46 PM, mathiau said:

From the WoB you gave I'd say the Aethers beings similar to BAM or the Stormfather except most of their investiture is in the SR so people can use them offworld

Just like Aviars or Allomancy. That is the default.

51 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

We see a bit of them in the Liar of Partinel sample chapters, and they seem to all start sapient, but lose both power and their minds over time and/or as they're transferred. Unclear if this is how it remains in canon or not.

As far as I can tell the Partinel Aethers and the Aether of Night aethers are incompatible. The description of the crystal and the mess it makes fits with Aether of Night.

51 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

 Quite plausible. If I remember, we see the source of the Verdant aethers in AoN, and it's a giant vine thing that presumably the others got split off of. So those are probably the ancient crafty powerful ones. 

Yes.

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

As far as I can tell the Partinel Aethers and the Aether of Night aethers are incompatible. The description of the crystal and the mess it makes fits with Aether of Night.

I mean, the sapience part isn't really compatible, but that's about it. There's literally a group called "The Order of Amberite" that has rose-colored crystals embedded in them (though Yunmi's is in her forearm just above her wrist instead of the center of her palm like Raeth's), so I don't see why Amberite existing in canon rules out the changes that were tried in Liar from being canon too.

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4 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I mean, the sapience part isn't really compatible, but that's about it.

That's a rather major change. It would mean:

  • the Ghostbloods put the corpse of a sapient being in a show case
  • Khrissalla is on friendly terms with a wannabe slaver
4 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

There's literally a group called "The Order of Amberite" that has rose-colored crystals embedded in them (though Yunmi's is in her forearm just above her wrist instead of the center of her palm like Raeth's), so I don't see why Amberite existing in canon rules out the changes that were tried in Liar from being canon too.

They do not. It is just that these versions are incompatible. In addition you have specifically the mess the Anberite makes after disuse and there is no pulp mentioned.

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1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

the Ghostbloods put the corpse of a sapient being in a show case

I mean, they apparently use Tamu Keks for communications sometimes, so Mraize and co are already using the bones of a sapient being as a cell phone.

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Khrissalla is on friendly terms with a wannabe slaver

The lady loves Hemalurgy and thinks it's cool to watch the death of a Shard. Seems she's a bit desensitized to some things by now.

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

In addition you have specifically the mess the Anberite makes after disuse and there is no pulp mentioned.

Aetherpulp is only mentioned in the samples in the context of Duskr, not Amberite.

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3 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Aetherpulp is only mentioned in the samples in the context of Duskr, not Amberite.

Duskr?

Where might I find mention of this?

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1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Duskr?

Where might I find mention of this?

Liar of Partinel sample chapters. Can find the links in this thread.

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11 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I mean, they apparently use Tamu Keks for communications sometimes, so Mraize and co are already using the bones of a sapient being as a cell phone.

The lady loves Hemalurgy and thinks it's cool to watch the death of a Shard. Seems she's a bit desensitized to some things by now.

Yes, we cannot rule out that the aether are those of the Partinel version.

11 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Aetherpulp is only mentioned in the samples in the context of Duskr, not Amberite.

Yes, there is one further possible mention of aethers other than in Oathbringer and by name in Rhythm of War, which points at the Aon aethers. It is a long shot, though. We have a broadseet from Era 2, Constructs of Antiquity, mechanical creatures living on Scadrial. That really fits one aether.

We are entering territory which is quite devoid of any data.

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7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

That really fits one aether.

Yeah, I like the idea it's Ferrous, though unfortunately odds are it's probably just something random Isaac threw in (I can dream, though!). Doesn't prove anything about the sapience, though, considering he's indicated that he's keeping most/all the powers from AoN anyway.

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You know, the idea that there might be 12 different aethers gives me an idea. Because aside from Night and Illuminous, all of the aethers we know of map pretty well to one of the ten essences:

  • Amberite: Lucentia (or maybe Talus, but it seems more like a crystal than stone)
  • Verdant: Pulp
  • Bestarin: Sinew
  • Ferrous: Foil
  • Aether of Wind (which I've only heard hearsay of on the forums here): Zephyr

So if we take in the ten essences and tack on dark and light, that gives us a total of twelve themes. And we've already seen there's some overlap in mechanics between different magic systems, like the metal cages used in making fabrials correlating to allomantic metals.

Not entirely sure I'm onto something, but I do like the idea.

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On 1/8/2022 at 5:35 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

The lady loves Hemalurgy and thinks it's cool to watch the death of a Shard. Seems she's a bit desensitized to some things by now.

Sounds like my kind of girl ;) 

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On 1/11/2022 at 11:46 PM, Cocoa said:

-snip-

 we've already seen there's some overlap in mechanics between different magic systems, like the metal cages used in making fabrials correlating to allomantic metals.

Not entirely sure I'm onto something, but I do like the idea.

Now you've got me curious if you can modify Aethers by putting wire cages around them. :P

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