Alloy of Law Reactions *spoilers*

[Chaos]

The only major complaint I have about it is the announcement implying that the next Mistborn books after this will be a timeskip, so we will not get to see the rest of Wax's story directly. I am certain that Brandon Sanderson knows what he's doing, and that will be fulfilling once we see it in action, but it still made me somewhat uneasy.

There will be more books with Wax and Wayne. Brandon pretty much said so at the Alloy release, and also:

[Aiken Frost]

My minor complaint of choice is that this book has made it impossible for me to picture playing the upcoming Mistborn RPG (the one from Crafty Games, not the Inquisition one hosted on this site) in the Final Empire setting. Any group of heroes there would just wind up feeling like rehashes of Kelsier's crew to me; while the much larger range of options, removal of the "Mistborn who is just more important than anyone else in the group" factor, and society where people being adventurous is much less often answered by slamming hooks through their necks all make Alloy-era play seem more logical and appealing to me. Sorry, Crafty guys, I know you've put a lot of work into researching and writing the setting info in the RPG book, but when I get my copy, I'll be adapting it to this era right off (on the plus side, I'm pretty well certain to buy the Alloy of Law supplement, when it comes).

Before I start, let me just say that I don't agree with the underlined part. The reason is in the spoiler tag below to not derail the thread.

I already pictured LOTS of game styles with extremely different type of characters. Just to illustrate, my first one shot (to learn the system and all that) when I grab the book will put the players as Hazekillers with the job to protect their nobleman master from assassination attempts from a famous Mistborn assassin that works for the rival Noble House. The second will probably be a 99% social game in a Casino Boat to solve a murder mystery with the players being nobleborn poker players ( ). So I don't think that the player group will be forced to become a copy of Kelsier's crew.

With that out of the will: THIS! I agree one hundred percent with the sentiment! Alloy of Law's setting just scream "adventure" to me. I, being an Iron Kingdoms's bitch, just can't resist the possibility of mixing allomancy and feruchemy with guns!

Edited November 20, 2011 by Aiken Frost

[Chaos]

Guys, I was reading Amazon reviews of Alloy of Law, and while there are some good ones, it is pretty mixed. If anyone has any time or motivation, it'd be pretty cool if there were some more positive ones I know I'm going to work on one.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

The only time I ever posted an Amazon review, it was for a book of alleged history which contained a number of serious inaccuracies. The review was somehow taken down within the day. Thus did my motivation to review things on Amazon die.

I suppose I really should try again in order to tell more people about the awesomeness that is Brandon Sanderson, though.

There will be more books with Wax and Wayne. Brandon pretty much said so at the Alloy release, and also:

Major complaint: gone.

Aiken Frost: Sure, there are some neat scenarios available in The Final Empire, and it'd make for some cool one-shots. There's nothing I can think of there which I would want to play or run for longer, though. And Alloy, as you say, feels like it was designed to be an adventure game setting. Although, for some reason, the more I try to think of adventures and NPCs for it, the more I wind up trying to mirror Trigun characters using different Twinborn combos. It's very odd.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Wait... did Spook really make a bunch of refugees struggling to handle the destruction of all they had known start using uncomfortable (to them) street slang at formal functions for the sake of a joke? Never underestimate the humor of someone from Kelsier's crew!

[Tacerion]

Loved the book. I like the character names Wax and Wayne, but I wish one was named moon. I was highly amused that Spooks street slang became the high imperial tongue. wassing the was.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Something I cannot believe I did not notice sooner: the Alloy of Law maps were made by the "Canton of Cartography". Huh. I wonder if they still have Obligators, with tattoos, and the ability to make things legally binding, and all of that. In either case, it would appear that at least some of the Lord Ruler's bureaucracy (though probably without any religious connotations) was remade after the Founding.

[Thor]

Loved the book. I like the character names Wax and Wayne, but I wish one was named moon. I was highly amused that Spooks street slang became the high imperial tongue. wassing the was.

Hilariously enough, Scadrial doesn't have a moon, so people on Scadrial wouldn't notice the pun of Wax and Wayne or even know what a moon is!

[Chaos]

Something I cannot believe I did not notice sooner: the Alloy of Law maps were made by the "Canton of Cartography". Huh. I wonder if they still have Obligators, with tattoos, and the ability to make things legally binding, and all of that. In either case, it would appear that at least some of the Lord Ruler's bureaucracy (though probably without any religious connotations) was remade after the Founding.

It's probably just convenient terminology for bureaucratic organizations. After all, they had a thousand years of Canton-this and Canton-that. It'd be natural to name it that.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

True, but they also had 1,000 years of Obligators sealing business arrangements, which makes me wonder if they held onto that system, even in part.

[the95th]

First reactions after finishing the book? MARSH LIVED!

first up, I think the earring Wax has did not contain any trace of hemulurgic charge, Harmony/Sazed would probably not adopt any of ruins bad habbits. Despite it being used as a way of communication it is probably nothing more then an antenna. This can be noted in that ruin could effect peoples decisions despite them not having a spike such as Vin's mother and persuading Zane to stab himself despite most people thinking such a thing would kill and the hardest evidence is ruins ability to manipulate metalmind memories, therefore Ati certainly can play with the mind as can Sazed. Presumably because each human contains a bit of ruin and preservation so it should be possible that the two shards can commune with the missing parts of itself. Much like the preservation ghost mist figure appearing.

Second. The book Marsh gave, didn't spook have a book at the end of HOA with the letter? my bets are that its the same book. And it is probably a sort of wikipedia of scadrial, possibley containing the knowledge sazed gained from becoming harmony. Other Shards?

Third. The Kandra most likely all work for harmony, and those who don't are probably kept watch on by sazed. And that Harmony replaced somone to possibly help Wax a bit like a certain Mistborn and wolf?

Fourth. The Obligators if they did perhaps look over contracts and business meetings would of been in attendance to Wax's marriage contract.

Fifth. The Set cannot steal power through hemulurgy without harmony knowing, so they cannot create Inquisitors and even if they did the Inquisitor would be in Harmony's power like Marsh. SO their only real Hope is to create a mistborn, however this will take a long long time.

Hence I believe they were stealing these young women to power something else all together. Perhaps just to bank roll thier operations in discovering the true way to make a mistborn? Lerasium.

In a world with a large amount of twinborns, a normal mistborn would have difficulty taking on two or three twinborns. Think Kel vs Inquisitor, it was a tough fight however if Kel's allomantic strength was on par with Elend who took Lerasium we can see that the Mistborn would come out on top, but it was still a tough fight.

Sixth and final I promise! I feel that Harmony is concerned because of the conflict caused by the Set, it would make sense with BS liking to swap roles such as in warbreaker. We can presume that the Set is like the Anti-kelsier Crew. Wanting to take down the leaders of Elendel with a small crew of Crack allomancers and Larasium is their "16th metal" opposed to Kelsiers "11th Metal" Now all we know of the "God" metals are, that they do not exist anymore. Presumably as Atium was burnt up at the climax of HoA and Elend taking the last bead of Larasium. However also in HoA Vin absorbs the body of presevation (the mist) and it is seen once again by Wax, so it can be presumed in 300 years perhaps the Pits of Hathsin and the Well of Acension are pumping out the bodies of their respective deities. And thus Harmonies concern that another War may take place. And that a rougue Kandra may give away the location of Atium. And yes I know the Pits were destroyed, but perhaps Harmony rebuilt them for some reason. This may also co-inside with the canto of cartography marking the centre of Elendle with the Larasium icon as, the line probably travels over the location of the Well. Plus the iron each side probably denote the location of were each metal can be found in the province. As it was mention that Luthadel/Elendel were built on reasource rich soil.

Sorry about the essay!!

Edited January 5, 2012 by the95th

[CrazyRioter]

Brandon has actually stated explicitly (when I asked him at a signing) that the earring has a slight hemalurgic charge, it's part of an Inquisitor spike that was melted down and reforged.

[the95th]

Oh well thats fair enough

I wonder how many spikes there were. Didn't marsh have like 30 odd spikes?

[Dahak]

Oh well thats fair enough

I wonder how many spikes there were. Didn't marsh have like 30 odd spikes?

Marsh had more spikes than any other inquisitor.

However there were 20 to 30 inquisitors, so more than 200 spikes but less than 900.

[Windrunner]

I wondered about how many earrings the Inquisitor's spikes could create but I came to the conclusion that probably a lot of Pathians just have regular spikes, and Sazed only gives Hemalurgic earrings to those he wants to be involved with.

[Inkthinker]

Spikes were solid metal and generally quite large. An earring, especially a stud, is a very small piece of metal.

You could get a lot of little stud earrings from one spike, let alone several dozen or more. There's no reason to believe that any Pathian is given a placebo, especially when you include the fact that the Path isn't one of the more popular religions.

[the95th]

Marsh had more spikes than any other inquisitor.

However there were 20 to 30 inquisitors, so more than 200 spikes but less than 900.

No, he didnt have 200 spikes. he had over 30, but not 200. It was stated that he had more spikes than any other inquisitor. Not that he had more spikes than all the other inquisitors put together.

If he had 200-900 spikes, that were all giving him power, he could of taken on all the atium mistings and elend in one go without breaking a sweat. Heck im pretty sure his steel pushes would of been able to move the world.

I suppose yes, you could of made 1000's of small earings out of those spikes. Looking at the dimensions of the one thats in my ear thats an official replica it does look like a miniture inquisitor spike, and if you scale it up to a railway sized stake you could make a few hundred if not thousand.

And i suppose he may of utilised fallen koloss spikes to lower their population. He could easily have enough earrings to spike the entire world.

Edited January 10, 2012 by the95th

[Kurkistan]

No, he didnt have 200 spikes. he had over 30, but not 200. It was stated that he had more spikes than any other inquisitor. Not that he had more spikes than all the other inquisitors put together.

If he had 200-900 spikes, that were all giving him power, he could of taken on all the atium mistings and elend in one go without breaking a sweat. Heck im pretty sure his steel pushes would of been able to move the world.

I suppose yes, you could of made 1000's of small earings out of those spikes. Looking at the dimensions of the one thats in my ear thats an official replica it does look like a miniture inquisitor spike, and if you scale it up to a railway sized stake you could make a few hundred if not thousand.

And i suppose he may of utilised fallen koloss spikes to lower their population. He could easily have enough earrings to spike the entire world.

I do believe that Dahak is referring to the total number of spikes for all inquisitors, using Marsh's spikes as an upper limit.

[the95th]

I do believe that Dahak is referring to the total number of spikes for all inquisitors, using Marsh's spikes as an upper limit.

Touche' I should probably read things twice before posting!

[whynaut]

I am already now listening to the audio book of AoL after having read it only a few months ago. First off, love Michael Kramer's return as narrator.

Second, I finally realized how Bloody Tan got Wax to shoot Lessie. Tan was a Slider. Earlier in the prologue Wax mentions that the outlaw Donal put a price on Tan's head for stealing his bendalloy. Tan the serial killer does not seem the type to steal for money, so it would be unlikely that he would steal the bendalloy for anything but to burn himself. So to put it simply; Tan burned the bendalloy, saw the path of Wax's bullet, and put Lesslie in the way. You may ask why he did not use the same ability to save himself afterward? Well it is not as thought Tan could have runaway with his speed bubble. Even if Tan had a full set of reserves, he would have eventually run out and got shot anyway. So either he did just run out of bendalloy or just decided to accept the inevitable after getting his last bit of revenge.

I am not sure if someone already posted this or not, but I am having a blast already finding new things from the book from the first chapter.

[Captain.Kaulu]

Second, I finally realized how Bloody Tan got Wax to shoot Lessie. Tan was a Slider. Earlier in the prologue Wax mentions that the outlaw Donal put a price on Tan's head for stealing his bendalloy. Tan the serial killer does not seem the type to steal for money, so it would be unlikely that he would steal the bendalloy for anything but to burn himself. So to put it simply; Tan burned the bendalloy, saw the path of Wax's bullet, and put Lesslie in the way. You may ask why he did not use the same ability to save himself afterward? Well it is not as thought Tan could have runaway with his speed bubble. Even if Tan had a full set of reserves, he would have eventually run out and got shot anyway. So either he did just run out of bendalloy or just decided to accept the inevitable after getting his last bit of revenge.

Doesn't work. Wax had already worked with Wayne for many years and was very familiar with speed bubbles by the time he shot Lessie. He would have recognized if that was how Tan pulled off his trick. Besides, even if Wax didn't have time to not-shoot after the speed bubble went up, the speed bubbles presumably deflect incoming bullets off-target the same way they deflect outgoing bullets.

[whynaut]

Doesn't work. Wax had already worked with Wayne for many years and was very familiar with speed bubbles by the time he shot Lessie. He would have recognized if that was how Tan pulled off his trick. Besides, even if Wax didn't have time to not-shoot after the speed bubble went up, the speed bubbles presumably deflect incoming bullets off-target the same way they deflect outgoing bullets.

Wax recognizes a speed bubble while being inside one. Outside a speed bubble the process might have been too fast to notice. And while a speed bubble would deflect bullets, I would imagine burning bendalloy would have given Tan more than enough time to place Lesslie in the path of the bullet and then drop the speed bubble in time to have it strike.

I think the biggest piece of evidence to support the theory was that Tan stole bendalloy from Donal. Why else would he need to steal it?

[ulyssessword]

... the speed bubbles presumably deflect incoming bullets off-target the same way they deflect outgoing bullets.

I don't think that they do. If they did, Wayne would not be able to dodge bullets shot at his bubble, as they would hit a random spot in the area, instead of following a predictable path. There are also many references to bullets deflecting when they leave a bendalloy bubble, only a couple for "crossing" the boundary, and none that I could find for entering.

[Windrunner]

I don't think that they do. If they did, Wayne would not be able to dodge bullets shot at his bubble, as they would hit a random spot in the area, instead of following a predictable path. There are also many references to bullets deflecting when they leave a bendalloy bubble, only a couple for "crossing" the boundary, and none that I could find for entering.

I think they must deflect though. As I understand it the deflection is caused by the bullet moving between areas where time is passing at different rates. We know that bendalloy and cadmium speed up and slow down time by the same amount since they're able to cancel each other out. I don't know precisely how much they do so but for ease lets just say bendalloy makes time move 10x faster in a bubble and cadmium makes it move 10x slower in a bubble. So when a bullet enters a bendalloy bubble it speeds up 10x. That is exactly the same thing that happens when a bullet leaves a cadmium bubble and it deflects then too, right? So I am fairly certain that bullets do deflect while entering a bendalloy bubble, but I don't think it would make it to much harder for Wayne to dodge bullets. They only deflect a tiny bit and in bubble that are 5 feet wide at most that isn't much difference in where they'll end up. As long as Wayne isn't standing too closed to where the bullet enters he should be fine. Am I making sense, or did I miss something?

[ulyssessword]

That is exactly the same thing that happens when a bullet leaves a cadmium bubble and it deflects then too, right?

I don't recall seeing anything leaving a cadmium bubble, so it's just conjecture at this point.

[Wayne] turned, noticing another bullet about to hit his speed bubble. He jumped to the side just before it touched the perimeter, zipped through the air in a heartbeat, then hit the other side and slowed again, deflected erratically up toward the ceiling.

This quote seems to suggest that the deflection out of the bubble was at least 30-40 degrees, otherwise it would have deflected up towards the top of the wall, instead of towards the ceiling. There is also no mention of it deflecting on entry, and a 40 degree deflection (in any direction, an 80 degree arc) would mean that nearly all of the bubble would be in danger of being hit.

I agree with you that bullets must, under our current understanding of time bubbles, deflect when entering a bendalloy bubble; I'm not sure if they actually do.

EDIT:

Even one of [Miles's lackeys], left alive, could have noticed what [Marasi's cadmuim] bubble meant and shot Waxillium and Marasi from the outside.

This suggests that bubbles are not deflected by entering cadmium bubbles, though it may be that they could just shoot enough to get lucky once. Edited February 3, 2012 by ulyssessword

[Exile]

Tan was definitely a Slider, having reread it. As to why he didn't use it to prolong the battle seems simple. If you read the prologue, clearly he is insane. Dude stuffs humans for show. It is really a disturbing sequence. Good catch.

I am curious as to how Sazed reads the minds of his followers. That seems a bit off from most canon. The earring is the obvious point of communication. He is wearing it during all of Sazed touches on his emotions and actual conversing.

I'm not sure why people are so disbelieving of Steris being the Kandra. As some people have pointed out not all Kandra follow Sazed. Some seem to be rogue. And if Uncle Ladrian is going to want a spy there would be no better than her. He had plenty of time to torture copious amounts of information from her and have her replaced before she is rescued and as previously stated, she has no allomantic powers to speak of. Not to mention all you hopeless romantics will enjoy it when she is outed and Wax can go after Marasi.

That being said... the Constable makes a pretty decent case too. Kandra working for Sazed who wants Wax involved with the law enforcement in town. But there might be something else going on with the Constable, some bribe or even his own religious affiliation. He has a slight lead on Steris, but she is still plausible.

Wax's uncle being Mister Suit wasn't exactly hard to guess. Between Miles talk of him "disinheriting" and the butlers suicide bombing pretty much sealed it. Still a cool confrontation scene.

Marsh's entrance was pure win. His name dropping and whatnot caused a lot of nostalgia in a short scene. I had a theory that Marsh was using Cadmium to hustle through time, but I guess Sanderson has confirmed Marsh's use of the Lord Rulers youth trick.

I've got to say this new Twinborn mess is awesome. It's going to start a wide flow of fanfiction that I might participate in. I really want to see what it would be like to have a professional gambler who was a Chromium ferring.

The reason this book catches a lot of flack is because of it's super generic plot. Cargo theft and kidnapping in the old west? Right out of the book. I loved the characters, but Wax being a retired lawman with a haunted past isn't exactly original. However I do believe Sanderson does this on purpose. This was suppose to connect two trilogies over an extended time skip. To keep the change more subtle and easy to follow he kept a generic plot and let the fireworks show with his character development and awesome metal magic tweaks. It makes sense, but this seems to be where he loses a lot of support. I understand it but it didn't appeal to the masses.

There's more here to discuss, but I need to read it one more time.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Exile