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[Spoiler] A question in regards the metallic arts


Catchfraze

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So,

since feruchemy is a result of the balance between Ruin and Preservation and their effect on the world (and allomancy and hemolurgy exist due to this as well), what happens if the two of them are no longer present on the planet?

It's possible I don't fully understand the way the magic system works.

Does the magic that's been invested in a world from the presence of the shards cease to exist if the shards relevant to their creation leave? Or is it simply that since the world was created using the power of ruin and creation, Feruchemy exists because of the balance struck through creation, and allomancy/hemolurgy are simply outlying abilities of that process?

I apologize if my question makes no sense or if it's explained elsewhere. I tried hunting down the answer to my question with little success.

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Good question actually.

Allomancy and hemalurgy both require the power of their respective shards.

I would say that hemalurgy and allomancy wouldn't work but feruchemy would, since that one doesn't use any external power source.

Of course, it would have to be more than merely leaving the planet for the shards to go away, since I am pretty sure that distance does not matter..

Edited by Emeralis00
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Good question actually.

Allomancy and hemalurgy both require the power of their respective shards.

I would say that hemalurgy and allomancy wouldn't work but feruchemy would, since that one doesn't use any external power source.

Of course, it would have to be more than merely leaving the planet for the shards to go away, since I am pretty sure that distance does not matter..

But this would mean that

in the shared universe, Feruchemy would work no matter what planet you're on. Is this correct?

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This thread has too many spoiler tags. This pleases me. But in all honesty, you're probably relatively good not using them this heavily so long as the discussion refers to stuff within the mistborn universe. Also, I don't think we have answers to these questions directly (so we cant give you direct brandon quotes), but i'm inclined to believe exactly in line with Emeralis.

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lol. okay. The spoiler tags are under-appreciated anyways.

Most of the things I have been saying here are from what I inferred based off of other questions Brandon answered.

I could probably give you a full proof given time.

yeah, that's why the gratuitous use of them here pleased me :P

I can't imagine what the rest of these boards looked like if we actually used them to the extent they probably should given how many spoilers are discussed pretty casually :P

Anyways, yeah, given what we know about the cosmere in general, i'd say your answers are probably pretty close to what brandon would say on the subject.

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Your welcome. I will gladly answer your questions when you ask them. smile.gif

In that case:

In way of kings, does ferochemy/allomancy/hemolurgy exist? Is it one of the systems of magic that haven't been revealed yet if that is the case? Also, since ferochemy allows you to store memories, does that mean it's possible that with a large enough metal you could store someone's complete consciousness and have someone else tap into it, kind of a poor man's reincarnation?

Edited by Catchfraze
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In that case:

In way of kings, does ferochemy/allomancy/hemolurgy exist? Is it one of the systems of magic that haven't been revealed yet if that is the case? Also, since ferochemy allows you to store memories, does that mean it's possible that with a large enough metal you could store someone's complete consciousness and have someone else tap into it, kind of a poor man's reincarnation?

1) doubtful, but we really don't have a true yes/no to this, because, as you said, not every magic system in WoK has been revealed yet, but so far a magic system hasn't been used twice outside of the same "related" books, so i'm going to have to say it's not likely, but not impossible.

2) hrm.....you could theoretically store ALL of someone's memories, but they wouldn't be the person's consciousness, just every experience he's ever had. The metal mind itself wouldn't likely be able to think, feel, or generate new memories.

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In way of kings, does ferochemy/allomancy/hemolurgy exist? Is it one of the systems of magic that haven't been revealed yet if that is the case?

Sorta.

The Metallic Arts are from Scadrial only. Roshar has independent magics. However, it is possible for the Metallic Arts to be used on Roshar, you would just need the proper Spiritual DNA to use it.

Also, since ferochemy allows you to store memories, does that mean it's possible that with a large enough metal you could store someone's complete consciousness and have someone else tap into it, kind of a poor man's reincarnation?

No, kinda. Feruchemy can store all of your memories given a large enough piece of copper, but there are a few downsides.

  1. only the person who stored it can access it
  2. if you store a memory you no longer remember it

Edited by Emeralis00
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I would strongly dissuade you from using spoiler tags. Mistborn has been out long enough that you don't need them in this board. When Alloy comes out, that will be different. See:

I'm strongly tempted to go edit them out, simply for readability ;)

EDIT: Though, if we do start talking about Stormlight, that may warrant spoiler tags because those spoilers should be in the Stormlight boards. But we are very lenient on them, especially very minor ones.

Edited by Chaos
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I would strongly dissuade you from using spoiler tags. Mistborn has been out long enough that you don't need them in this board. When Alloy comes out, that will be different. See: http://www.17thshard...-to-17th-shard/

I'm strongly tempted to go edit them out, simply for readability ;)

EDIT: Though, if we do start talking about Stormlight, that may warrant spoiler tags because those spoilers should be in the Stormlight boards. But we are very lenient on them, especially very minor ones.

nuuuu! not the poor, poor spoiler tags! D:

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Well then, what do you mean by spiritual DNA? I read this in a few Branderson interviews, but it's something I don't understand really. I'm assuming this means that if a shard (Ruin and preservation) was to exist somewhere else other than Scandrial, then their powers wouldn't be the metallic arts? If you could explain to me why what I said is correct or wrong, rather than just saying it's one or the other, this would go a long way to helping me understanding the cosmere.

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Spiritual DNA is a term that Brandon used to suggest that people from certain worlds can use certain magics. So, for example, people with Scadrian sDNA have the potential to use the Metallic Arts, people with Selian sDNA have the potential to tap the Dor, Nalthians have biochromatic breath, and Rosharians have surgebinding, windrunning, etc.

It also means that a Selian could not use biochromatic breath, nor could a Scadrian use surgebinding. (Tangent! I'd love to see Vin and Szeth spar.) However, we do have evidence that one planet's magic system can work on another world. We don't know how it was done, especially considering this particular system's known limitations, but we do know that it did work.

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Spiritual DNA is a term that Brandon used to suggest that people from certain worlds can use certain magics. So, for example, people with Scadrian sDNA have the potential to use the Metallic Arts, people with Selian sDNA have the potential to tap the Dor, Nalthians have biochromatic breath, and Rosharians have surgebinding, windrunning, etc.

It also means that a Selian could not use biochromatic breath, nor could a Scadrian use surgebinding. (Tangent! I'd love to see Vin and Szeth spar.) However, we do have evidence that one planet's magic system can work on another world. We don't know how it was done, especially considering this particular system's known limitations, but we do know that it did work.

too bad szeth couldn't make it into suvudu's last cage match

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Ok.. So, if i understand correctly, Hemalurgy steals pieces of sDNA and staples them to other people. Does it mean that it may steal, say, Surgebinding abilities or Breath? (If used by the person from Scadrial)?

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Ok.. So, if i understand correctly, Hemalurgy steals pieces of sDNA and staples them to other people. Does it mean that it may steal, say, Surgebinding abilities or Breath? (If used by the person from Scadrial)?

You are partially correct, but its more like Hemalurgy steals sDNA, then the sDNA is stapled to a person who is then stapled to Ruin, which is why you don't die from spikes in your face.

I'm not sure, maybe. I believe there is a thread for questions for Brandon. That would be a good one.

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You are partially correct, but its more like Hemalurgy steals sDNA, then the sDNA is stapled to a person who is then stapled to Ruin, which is why you don't die from spikes in your face.

I'm not sure, maybe. I believe there is a thread for questions for Brandon. That would be a good one.

I was never under the impression that you are stapled to Ruin. Citation?

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I was never under the impression that you are stapled to Ruin. Citation?

Okay, I think I read the quote wrong and assumed it was a connection to Ruin (apparently its to preservation), but its still why you don't die from the spikes.

HoA Thread-

http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6655.0

Quote from: kaimipono on October 16, 2008, 07:44:36 PM4. Why exactly do some spikeremovals kill (dual eye, or central spike) but most don't?

4. For the samereason that a bullet through one part of the body will kill you, but getting shot somewhere else won't. The physical form of a person who has under gone a Hemalurgic transformation is no longer what we think of it. The direct connection to Preservation starts keeping them alive. (Imagine stapling someone's soul to another person's soul, their life essence, then stapling that to the power of creation itself, giving you a conduit directly to power, letting you leech it and steal it.) That power keeps you alive,despite the wounds. Some of the time, the other staples are enough to keep you alive, even if one is pulled out. Others are too important.

Edited by Emeralis00
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