Child of Hodor

New WoB Odium - Autonomy Connection

7 posts in this topic

This WoB was recently posted to Arcanum. 

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Double

Rayse (Odium) was very methodical with the order in which he went after other Shards. Hypothetically if he'd visited the Rosharan system all those years ago but managed to avoid being trapped and was able to continue his mission right away, which of the known Shards would've been next up on Rayse's hit list?

Brandon Sanderson

He expected Ruin to implode. So he might have gone for Autonomy, double crossing them.

Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

This heavily, heavily implies Odium and Autonomy have at least an understanding between them that they won't go after each other, if they aren't outright allied.  The two shardholders were lumped together by Hoid in the Way of Kings letter to Frost.  

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You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.

 WoK ch. 23 epigraph https://coppermind.net/wiki/The_Way_of_Kings/Epigraphs

I wonder if Bavadin / Autonomy will send someone to send an Avatar to Roshar as they might be upset that someone killed Rayse if they had a pre-ascension relationship and a post-ascension alliance. Not all the Avatars do, but Bavadin might.  Autonomy can mold their Avatars in OB Ch. 50 epigraph they mention instilling a new Avatar with an intense dislike of Hoid. Bavadin might make one that's really not happy about what happened to Rayse. 

Edited by Child of Hodor
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This mention of Odium potentially double-crossing Autonomy, and the fact that Hoid lumps them together in his grudge, makes me think that Odium and Autonomy had more than just an understanding together. 

The following WoB hints towards them being somewhat involved together in the splintering of Devotion and Dominion:

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Moridin997 (paraphrased)

Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh...

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

(sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way...

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that...

Lisbon signing (Nov. 7, 2016)

 

If I recall correctly, there was also a WoB that Odium's battle with Ambition had a third participant in it, but I need to find that (will edit when I do). If that extra participant was Autonomy, that could point towards the two of them working together actively to splinter other Shards!

(edit: The WoB does not exist but was an Epigraph from RoW stating that the participant was Mercy)

Edited by AutonomousJoy
editing with found information
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2 hours ago, AutonomousJoy said:

This mention of Odium potentially double-crossing Autonomy, and the fact that Hoid lumps them together in his grudge, makes me think that Odium and Autonomy had more than just an understanding together. 

The following WoB hints towards them being somewhat involved together in the splintering of Devotion and Dominion:

 

If I recall correctly, there was also a WoB that Odium's battle with Ambition had a third participant in it, but I need to find that (will edit when I do). If that extra participant was Autonomy, that could point towards the two of them working together actively to splinter other Shards!

Yeah it's entirely possible Autonomy and Odium are allied more overtly. The thing is the questioner said "in any way" and that gives Brandon a ton of wriggle room. There is another WoB I can't find, unfortunately, where he basically says Odium strategy for those two was pitting them against each other, so in a way they Devotion and Dominion helped kill each other.

You'd think Autonomy would have tried to help a bit more overtly with Odium trapped. Autonomy being, in part, about freedom they would want to free their ally. 

 Mercy was the third participant in the Odium-Ambition fight. Brandon also says Odium may have worked with other Shards in the past. 

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"That said, the most worrying thing I discovered in this was the wound upon the Spiritual Realm where Ambition, Mercy, and Odium clashed—and Ambition was destroyed. The effects on the planet Threnody have been … disturbing." RoW CH. 27 Epigraph

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Questioner

Could-- would Odium ever work with another Shard? Maybe not pick up another one--

Brandon Sanderson

If he were in charge. Yes, this is within the realm of possibility of what Odium would do. In fact, that may have happened at various points *sly smile*.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

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46 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Yeah it's entirely possible Autonomy and Odium are allied more overtly. The thing is the questioner said "in any way" and that gives Brandon a ton of wriggle room. There is another WoB I can't find, unfortunately, where he basically says Odium strategy for those two was pitting them against each other, so in a way they Devotion and Dominion helped kill each other.

That makes a lot of sense! With the wiggle room, Autonomy could've done as little as just standing back and not interfering!

 

47 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

You'd think Autonomy would have tried to help a bit more overtly with Odium trapped. Autonomy being, in part, about freedom they would want to free their ally. 

With how subtle Autonomy has been acting currently I think they wouldn't do anything very direct. I have a pet theory that Axindweth is an agent of Autonomy sent to kickstart the True Desolation to lead to Odium's potential release. If the theories that Trell is affiliated with Autonomy are true, then a Feruchemist acting on behalf of Autonomy wouldn't be too farfetched. This is fairly speculative however.

51 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

 Mercy was the third participant in the Odium-Ambition fight. Brandon also says Odium may have worked with other Shards in the past. 

Thanks for the clarification! I'm an audiobook listener so searching the books is near impossible for me!

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On 11/24/2021 at 7:49 AM, Child of Hodor said:

Yeah it's entirely possible Autonomy and Odium are allied more overtly. The thing is the questioner said "in any way" and that gives Brandon a ton of wriggle room. There is another WoB I can't find, unfortunately, where he basically says Odium strategy for those two was pitting them against each other, so in a way they Devotion and Dominion helped kill each other.

You'd think Autonomy would have tried to help a bit more overtly with Odium trapped. Autonomy being, in part, about freedom they would want to free their ally. 

 Mercy was the third participant in the Odium-Ambition fight. Brandon also says Odium may have worked with other Shards in the past. 

 

I always felt Odium worked with Dominion to Kill Devotion, but then turned on Dominion, but I have no basis for this other than tropes of how those two shards might work. 

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I felt that Odium teamed up with Autonomy because Devotion and Dominion are their natural opposites.

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14 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

I always felt Odium worked with Dominion to Kill Devotion, but then turned on Dominion, but I have no basis for this other than tropes of how those two shards might work. 

I originally felt the same but the OP’s wob makes me think otherwise…if dominion naturally would have sought to destroy devotion then why intervene at all (as the wob suggests re: ruin). We have a wob that odium specifically went after dominion and devotion—and saw ambition as his biggest threat. So I’m guessing he saw dominion as another rival (re: shardic intent).

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