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Found 13 results

  1. I have a theory: Two people will become the vessels of Odium, Cultivation and Honor, with Honor divided between the two of them. For instance, Dalinar might ascend to Odium and half of Honor, becoming an Odium-heavy shard of War. Someone else would ascend to Cultivation and the other half of Honor. Maybe Lirin would be Honor-vation, as he’s got Edgedancer vibes but is honorable to a fault. Each would be an active shard, unlike Harmony, especially War. War might be even more motivated to take over the cosmere than Rayse was, because of the Intent of the new shard. Cultiv-honor (can anyone come up with a real name?) would have the potential to be a very “good” Shard, depending on who the vessel is and how the two shards combine. I am only raising this as a possibility. I wouldn’t bet on it happening.
  2. All people have a Cognitive Aspect which is formed of Investiture (as technically everything is). Upon death this Aspect begins to dissipate, just as the body begins to decay. An infusion of Investiture to the body will heal it and an infusion of Investiture to the Cognitive Aspect will maintain it. Living people are effected by other people’s perceptions. The effect is simply minimized for unknown reasons. In contrast, the Cognitive Aspects of objects and non-sapient creatures do not have whatever safe guard minimizes this effect on living sapients and are strongly effected by perceptions. Shadows seem to fall into an in between area. They’re less effected by perception than non-sapients, but they’re more effected than living sapients. Whatever safeguards living sapients appears to be damaged, though a strong enough infusion of Investiture or exposure to the Spiritual Realm may help. What’s even more interesting is that there’s some indication that the whole problem is tied to memory and the limits of human capacity for it. It’s possible memory is the safeguard. There are some indications that an ordinary living sapient who lives too long will begin to have the same issue as a Shadow. And others that indicate natural immortals may avoid the issue. It’s also worth noting that Vessels seem to have a similar problem and some take advantage by trying to shape perceptions of themselves in particular manners. (Note that most Vessels are alive.) To me this indicates that the problem is less of perception and more a matter of Spiritual Connection. If the body is the physical function, and the Cognitive is the consciousness, it seems like the Spiritual is the totality of our lives experiences: the web of memories and connections we form throughout our lives that define who we are. It seems to me that as the Cognitive Aspect reaches its natural threshold for recall, it begins to lose its ability to access portions of that web, almost like a magical version of Alzheimer’s disease. It’s as though the Connection between Consciousness and Experience begins to fray, leading to the weakening of the Self. I’m going to call this the recall threshold: the point past where a Cognitive Aspect can access the sum totality of its Spirit Web. If something happens to expand the Cognitive Aspect’s ability to ‘recall’ or if something stimulates this, the Cognitive Aspect will ‘remember’ itself. In the absence of a whole link to the Spiritweb, I think perception takes its place. That’s a type of Connection too, but it’s one formed by the collective experiences and memories of other people. If you don’t know who you are, then you have to take it from other people. Imagine someone with amnesia, being told ‘You are X. You work as a Y. This is your family.’ etc. and determining who you are based on that. Except on a much broader and unconscious scale. In this hypothesis, as the ties from the Cognitive Aspect to the Spiritweb fray, the collective Consciousness, the perceptions and Connections of and with other people, act to shore up the fraying supports. Over time, as the ties between Realms continue to weaken, this collective consciousness becomes a pseudo-Spiritweb shaping the way the Cognitive Aspect defines itself while still allowing that self to maintain some definition. This has little to do with whether it’s the original person, or soul, or not. It’s not a problem of perception - indeed, perception would actually be acting as a symptom reducer - but a problem of Connection between Realms. The problem that Shadows face would simply be a result of those ties being damaged by having died. Just as a person loses their Connection to the Physical, they also lose their Connection to the Spiritual upon death. When a Shadow has their Cognitive Aspect stabilized, it stops the severing process and may even reverse some of the damage. But it seems reasonable that these Connections between Realms are no longer whole. The Connection to the Physical, for example, needs to be intentionally restored. If the tie to the Spiritual remains damaged, then it would be more vulnerable to breakdown than that of a living sapient. So while both living and Shadow will experience the recall threshold problem, a Shadow will experience the effects much sooner. This effect would apply to all Shadows over time. In fact, it would apply to all non-natural immortals. Even natural immortals could, in theory, eventually hit their (presumably much higher) recall threshold and experience the effects of the loss of Spiritual Connection. In conclusion, whether or not a Shadow is the original person’s consciousness/soul is immaterial and remains a philosophical problem (as per WoB). The problem is one of Realmatic Connection that would ultimately effect all sapients, with the closest Physical Realm equivalent being something like Alzheimer’s or other disorders of memory. The fact that increasing the recall threshold or decreasing the distance between Realms can heal this damage would be indicative of this problem not being tied to original personhood of a Shadow, but to a greater Realmatic effect to which Shadows are simply more susceptible due to their weakened ties to the Realms.
  3. Hello everybody, I'm a newbie to the forums and want to share in on some fan theories and cool Cosmere discussions. I was recently listening to a great podcast, Cosmere Conversations, and it got me thinking... Shard Carry-Ons When beings seize the power of the Shards and ascend to become Vessels, their immediate belongings like clothing and weapons accompany them into some pocket dimension or into the Spiritual Realm. Leras had a knife on him during Secret History. Rayse, Leras, Ati, and Vin materialize with their original clothing once they died. Sazed ascended with his metalminds and was even able to access them. I was incorrect. He tapped them just before ascending and they dropped to the ground. Thanks @LewsTherinTelescope! So, what other carry-on luggage can you bring along on the ride to godhood? Shardblade/Shardplate? Bonded spren/Unmade? Nightblood? Hemalurgic spikes? God metals/Essences? Pancakes? Anti-Light? Restrictions & Resistance So are there any restrictions? Could Investiture or Connection play a role? We see that Vin was unable to ascend until she removed her earring (hemalurgic spike). But Sazed was able to ascend with his heavily Invested metalminds. Perhaps the flavor of Investiture is key? Vin could not seize the power of Preservation (end-positive) because she was holding the power of Ruin (end-negative). Sazed was able to seize the power of both Preservation and Ruin along with his metalminds because Feruchemy is of both Preservation and Ruin (end-neutral)! I'm not sure if there is a connection with Connection here (at least in the relationship between the Invested items and the Shard), since Vin and Sazed would be very Connected with their respective items. Regarding Nightblood near the end of RoW, it's possible (but not explicitly stated) that the sword could have fallen away or out of Taravangian's grasp before he ascended. I don't think Taravangian would have been able to ascend with Nightblood in hand anyway...but perhaps if there was a similar scenario with Endowment instead of Odium... My hypothesis so far based on observations: Attempting to seize the power of a Shard while holding the Investiture of another Shard will be met with resistance. Shard Merging Is Harder Than It Looks We have witnessed only a single Shard merger and it was as easy as picking up the power of both Shards at the same time, right? But could this have been accomplished under different circumstances? Remember the profound resistance that Vin (as Preservation) experiences when trying to attack Ruin? Almost like opposite pushing the same ends of a magnet together. She eventually does attack him in full force, but kills them both in the process - no merging takes place. Did the end-neutral nature of Sazed's Invested metalminds act as a catalyst for the merge? What if he was instead an Allomancer or was spiked or didn't have any relevant Investiture at all? Could a spiked Allomancer take and merge both Shards? I know there is a lot of intentional poetic symbology in Mistborn (Ruin + Preservation = Harmony), but perhaps balance is exactly what's needed for any successful Shard merger. Balanced Investiture We are introduced to balanced or stabilized Investiture combinations in the form of Shardblades (Honor metal + Cultivation metal), Towerlight (Stormlight + Cultivation light), and Warlight (Stormlight + Voidlight). I have a sneaking suspicion that these discoveries in Investiture will have profound importance if these Shards are ever going to merge. We will probably see Navani experimenting with combining all three lights in the next book. Considering Raboniel's doubtful comment on the amount of Anti-Light it would take to destroy Odium, I don't think this path would be pursued. Revised hypothesis: Attempting to seize the power of a Shard will be met with resistance while holding the Investiture of another Shard. Merging multiple Shards will be met with resistance unless holding the combined Investiture of these Shards. Now Some Hot Takes Navani becomes/creates the catalyst to merge Honor, Cultivation, and damnation, maybe even Odium! Hoid has been collecting bits and pieces of Investiture all over the Cosmere. What if he possessed a small bit of Investiture from each Shard and was able to become a Vessel with all these on his person? Would this create a mini-Adonalsium? A "Shard" that isn't actually bound by any singular Intent and has more agency? I don't know but I wanna believe! Sorry for the long rant. Please, share with me your thoughts on all this! Has anyone else here posted some similar nonsense?
  4. Since we've obviously seen the shattering of Adonalsium (Not literally) and the splintering of other shards. What stopped the original 16 from splintering their own shards and taking up the other 15 pieces from each other? Making a series of mini-adonalsiums with their powers, but equalized as to not change the person holding them nearly as much. Possibly reducing these conflicts we've seen. Any WoB on this topic, or is this too outlandish a question to be considering.
  5. So. Becoming a Shard of Adonalasium obviously has many benefits. Instant immortality, a rapidly expanding mind, an infinite well of power to draw on. And an automatic pass into the most exclusive club in the Cosmere. Yet for all its benefits, becoming 1/16th of God carries with it significant drawbacks, as Sazed would point out. The main drawback is the power itself, forever pushing you to act in ways that promote its agenda. To go against the power is to know pain, something that should have been left behind upon ascension along with your physical body. And it's that aspect that makes a Vessel a Cognitive Shadow. They are the greatest of them but face the same limitations as the Heralds, Fused, Kelsier, Vasher, whoever. Not only is being a Vessel not all it's cracked up to be, it's also a role that former mortals are particularly unsuited for. The problem is 2 fold. The first one is as stated above, the power is always pushing, always trying to shape its Vessel. The second however is unique to mortals and it is simple. Mortals are just not built for immortality. The mind breaks out of sheer inertia. And though the power does help with the issue by expanding the mind of the Vessel, that mind was still once a mortal one. The limits of mortality don't go away, they're merely postponed. Ask the Fused how difficult just 7000 years is on a mortal mind. If you can find a sane one. It thus occurred to me that the best candidate for a Vessel, one who could deal with the endless tug of war between shard and vessel best would be someone who was naturally immortal at the time of ascension. Their will would not die out of fatigue alone because they possess minds built for immortality. And the only immortal race of beings that I know of at the time of the Shattering were Dragons. There have been 2 of those immortals confirmed in the Cosmere, Frost and the current Vessel of Cultivation, Kovari. So why is this important? Because there's a new Odium in town, one that's crafty, extremely dangerous, and holding a power that even the other Shards are wary of. And new Vessels should have major advantages over original Vessels who have long ago succumbed to Shardic Intent in terms of freedom to act and of movement. Kovari seems to have made a major misstep in putting Taravangian in position to take up that particular Shard. I admit I thought so too at first but now I'm not so sure. She's a rather crafty lizard lady herself and probably won't have completely lost her will to Cultivation's Intent due to her previous immortality. There will be some terrifying days ahead for Roshar but I have faith that Tod will not have things all his own way, that Kovari has contingencies, and that everything will mostly work out in the end. What do you guys and gals think?
  6. [All Spoilers] Apologies if this is behind the times. I just finished RoW. [And am, as a result, the most sleep-deprived] POINT 1: We know that the Sixteen all came from Yolen. POINT 2: We know that there are three Yolish races: Human; Sho Del; and Dragon. POINT 3: We know there is currently only one Shard on Roshar. POINT 4: We know that dragons can shapeshift. POINT 5: Hoid said something about there being a dragon on Roshar. POINT 6: Specified that the dragon is a woman. POINT 7: And states that she hides her draconian form. POINT 8: During Taravangian's Ascension, we are explicitly told that Cult has many forms, but only one true form. So... Cultivation is a dragon. Right? FUN THEORY 1: "The Dog And The Dragon" is about Hoid and Frost on Yolen. Hoid, a poor widdle human, wanted to be all awesome like the dragons. Whether or not Dragons can actually shapeshift, Hoid acquired an equivalent ability in the form of Yolish lightweaving. He may have done other things as well. But it wasn't the same. Perhaps that is what drove him towards The Shattering. And/or towards being a walking talking museum for forms of investiture manipulation. FUN THEORY 2: We know that Lift turns food into Investiture. We know that this ability was granted her by Cult. I kind of wonder whether food-to-investiture is a dragon thing, and to affect it, Cult modified Lift's spiritual DNA to resemble the draconic. Guys I just want Lift to be a dragon. Is that wrong? Maybe! But I could still be right! FUN THEORY 3: Cultivation's Vessel is named Fyiad. AYYO BRANDON, MAKE IT HAPPEN.
  7. Many posters have analyzed the WoB that says this. Here is the WoB again. I highlight the critical language. My interpretation follows. IMO, Adonalsium was “infinite” because his mind inhabited his soul and was co-extensive with it. (Adonalsium is an anagram for “a mind, a soul.”) Adonalsium was both “transcendent” – occupying the Spiritual Realm – and “immanent” – pervading the Physical Realm. Adonalsium’s spirit, mind, and body were one. Shards are slices of Adonalsium. The Vessels’ minds Connect to those slices – “The Connection is all there in the Spiritual Realm.” Vessel minds are not co-extensive with their slices the way Adonalsium was with the entire cosmere. Vessels don’t know the Physical Realm location of their Shard’s “assigned Investiture” and instead must search for it. IMO, that is the sense Vessels are “not infinite.”
  8. I’ve already submitted this to the list of questions to ask Brandon, but I thought I’d let the community pick this apart. Can/have Shards had children after ascending to become Shards? I believe that they can have children because they can manifest themselves in the Physical Realm and interact with it. As far as whether they have had children I have no specific people in mind but I wouldn’t be surprised if we learned about a couple. What are your thoughts?
  9. No theory, just speculation. So, we know that a Shard cannot deny access to a user of its magic system per WOB. Basically as long as the user is following the rules a Shard and/or its Vessel cannot intervene. That got me thinking about Vin's Ascension in HOA. She took up all the mists and became Preservation for a time. Leras was already dead though so there was no conflict. My question is can a being ascend if the Vessel still lives? The power of a Shard is infinite after all. We know a being can weild 2 Shards (and probably more than that). We know that the power seeks a mind to guide or contain it. Can one Shard have multiple Vessels and what would it look like if so? Is Autonomy/Badvadin doing this? Last, if it is possible for one Shard to have multiple Vessels and those people are in conflict, say one isn't particularly suited for the Shard they hold, then how are conflicts resolved?
  10. Alright, so we know that not all the Shard's vessels were human. We have humans and at least one dragon and at least one Sho Del (based off of the language in the Ars Arcanum Essays, I would guess there is more than just one of each of those). So the question/theory is: does the species of the vessel effect how much they can resist the influence of their Shard's intent? Are there some minds that are naturally stronger just because of which species they belong too? We have a WOB that says some Vessels are still actively resisting the Shardic influence. We also know from WOBs that some individuals are better at resisting than others. I think the species and strength of the mind could have a significant effect on this, what do you think? (I'll post the relevant WOBs below to keep the whole theory together.)
  11. Pre - Shattering there was a being or power source Adonalsium that controlled or encompassed all of the investiture in the Cosmere. Presumably this investiture was imbued throughout the existing stars, planets and beings that existed in the Cosmere which included almost all of the current systems and types of intelligent life forms that currently exist (Scadrial and its line of humans being notable exceptions.) Also presumably all of the original ways of using investiture (proto-lightweaving, proto-sensory enhancement, proto-future sight, etc.) were either inherently granted by or naturally derived from Adolnasium. At some point in the past, either 1) Adonalsium either was under some threat that would affect the way of life in the cosmere or at least on Yolen. 2) Adonalsium itself was becoming a threat or a perceived threat to the way of life in the cosmere/Yolen. 3) The leaders of the various groups on Yolen convinced others/themselves of point 1 or 2 above. I believe that at this point, the leaders split into several factions. Faction 1 - disagreed entirely with any plan to interfere with or 'kill' Adonalsium - I feel fairly confident adding Frost to this group. Faction 2 - Agreed with plan to separate and distribute Adonalsium power but thought that this would be sufficient to end the threat or could be used safely - Leras, Tanavast, Uli Da, Aona Faction 3 - Agreed with plan to separate and distribute Adonalsium power but thought that the power should be kept separate or should be further splintered - Rayse, Bavadin, Edgli Not sure about: Ati, Skai, Cultivation's vessel Huge Question mark - probably doesn't fit into any of these categories - Hoid. A lot of this comes from information and impressions of the various Letters as well as some semi-canon sources (The Traveler, DragonSteel sample chapters, Liar of Partinel sample) and my own impressions and thoughts while reading the books, exploring the Shard and listening to Shardcast podcasts. Let me know your thoughts.
  12. Please note the following theory will contain spoilers for the sample chapters of "Liar of Partinel". New Theory: Some, or all, of the original sixteen holders of the shards of Adonalsium were driven to Shatter Adonalsium because of Blarg! There are so many tantalizing hints and possibilities in those few sample chapters. If only all of the Cosmere books were done and we could know what happened! Ah well, someday.
  13. Well I've got some information about "Mistborn Secret History" but not able to read it, can anyone provide directly resources, especially about Khriss' quotes? Also there are some paragraphs about Khriss, mentioning that 16 Shard vessels killed and tore Adonalsium together?! It's too shocking and anybody able to have aother explanations? Thx