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Found 82 results

  1. A couple of years back, I posted a thread about how the names of the Unknown listed in Words of Radiance resembled a bunch of Mesopotamian gods. I'd like to start digging into the new Unmade names in Oathbringer. Previous thread: Other thread I wasn't in: In the meantime, a friend of mine asked Brandon about the Unmade names and Brandon said that he was inspired by real-world sources, but the sources didn't really have any influence on the Stormlight Archive plot. So this thread is just for fun inspiration digging. There aren't going to be any cool revelations about what will happen later in the series. Really. This is me being pedantic and academic. Anyways, I made a handy-dandy chart of the Unmade and which Mesopotamian gods I think Brandon got the names from: Unmade Nickname Powers Source? Yelig-Nar Blight Wind Consumes souls? ? Sja-anat Corrupts spren Satan (New Testament) or Anat, the Ugaritic and Egyptian goddess Nergaoul Causes the Thrill Nergal, the Mesopotamian god of death, pestilence and plague, and Lord of the Underworld Moelach Causes the Death Rattles Moloch, God of fire and chaos; child sacrifices Dai-gonarthis Black Fisher ? Dagan or Dagon, fisher or spear god Re-Shephir Midnight Mother Copycat murders Resheph, a Canaanite/Ugaritic god of plague; often equated to Nergal Ashertmarn Heart of the Revel Partying Ashera, Sumerian goddess and lady of the sea Bo-Ado-Mishram Commander of the unmade? Baal-Hadad? Seems a bit of a stretch. Chemoarish Dustmother ? Chemosh, Moabite god We previously attributed Re-Shephir to Resheph, Dai-gonarthis to Dagon (although he might not be an Unmade after all), Moelach to Moloch, and Nergaoul to Nergal. There's also been some debate over whether Sja-anat gets her name from Satan or Anat. Personally, I lean towards Anat. Anat was a goddess in both Egypt and Mesopotamian cultures, while Satan originates in the Old Testament and is never a Mesopotamian (or other nearby culture's) god. Of the new Unmade we learn about in Oathbringer, Chemoarish seems to pretty obviously take her name from the Moabite god Chemosh. The one wrinkle in that is Chemosh is a male god, while Chemoarish's sobriquet "Dustmother" implies she's a female spren. Ashertmarn is a bit more difficult. There's a goddess named Astarte/Astoreth, but I think it's Asherah, another goddess in the area. The "marn" part I have no idea about. Asherah is also called Asherah of the Sea, or Asheret Ya'am, and "mar" means "sea" in Spanish? I think that's a coincidence though. Bo-Ado-Mishram is a tough one. There's a god called Hadad who was also sometimes called Baal-Hadad (a conflation of two separate gods I think?). If you take a syllable from each name you get "Ba Ad", which is maybe a tiny bit similar? I think I'm on the wrong track with this one. Help! And as always, who the heck knows where Yelig-nar comes from. There's also the question of whether Brandon was taking inspiration from Judeo-Christian demons or Mesopotamian gods. Judeo-Christianity tends to label Mesopotamian gods as demons, hence the crossover. For example, Moloch, Dagon, Resheph, Asherah, and Nergal all get Old Testament mentions (I know very little New Testament stuff, so if anyone wants to chime in on that end that'd be great). This really comes into play over whether Sja-anat gets her name from Satan or Anat; the former is only possible if Brandon was going for demonology.
  2. So khriss mentions in AU that in 300 yrs , Scadrial has made immense progress . We have seen it first hand in BoM. She also posits that without Tlr , the technology would already be space age or post scarcity. But on Roshar , it has been 4500 yrs since the last desolation and it's still in the middle age. Now I understand that Roshar and Scadrial are quite different. Scadrial doesn't have to deal with Highstorms destroying railways and other such inventions. The shardblades also serve to deincentivize guns and explosives. But even considering those factors, Roshar is extremely backward in scientific progress and technology. On Scadrial we have seen the magic system used in novel ways to fuel technology. Yet , Roshar which has Fabriel-istics, an entire magic/science system which requires only scientific research to perfect it is still so backward !!!! Anyone could do it at any time and yet , Even among spanreeds and heating fabriels ,it's only in the past 5-6 yrs that any great progress has been made in them. This progress, however , has been extremely rapid. Spanreeds, halfshards, painriels, heating fabriels , Greatbows , alarmers , emotion sensors , stormclocks ,attractors have all been devised or perfected only in the last half decade. The information based economy of Tashikk also seems recent. Then you have the hints at other Fabriels such as Navani's drawings of an inverse ship and the floating platforms which imply heavier than air flight or maybe even spacecraft. The discovery about the flamespren obeying an Heisenberg uncertainty principle analog by the ardents in the isles in WoK is also extremely recent and a breakthrough as well. Isn't it strange that these the requirements for these discoveries/improvements have been in place for millenia and yet it is only now that the potential is crystallizing ? The Vorin kingdoms have had extremely literate women and ardents studying natural sciences for millenia. The Spren have been there even longer. The Soulcasters and Regrowth fabriels were present and endured even during the desolations. The knights radiant have been gone for 2 millenia or so , allowing for fabriels to fill in the gaps. Indeed Roshar seems to have gone through technological regression since the last desolation losing every Regrowth fabriel. And now all of a sudden , just a few years before the Resurgent desolation, large strides have been made in technology . There is another curiosity , this growth has occured only in Alethkar and Jah keved . The other regions have simply imbibed them without making any original contributions. Why has real growth not occured in the Makabaki region which seems just as suitable for creativity and innovation to flourish ? It's more suitable actually , since they don't have gender or eye colour barriers to literacy , they generally have experienced greater peace than alethkar and instead have had to face a greater range of difficulties like famines for example ( Baxil's friend mentions one in living memory ), all of which foster innovation I think the answer is that there is an Unmade whose power is analogous to Nergaoul who caused the Thrill While Nergaoul enrages one's emotions , , I believe this Unmade smothers one's intellect or more likely , perhaps the positive emotions scientific curiosity arouses . Making them incapable or atleast less likely to exhibit innovation. This is similar to how soothing and rioting form a pair in allomancy. . This would explain why Roshar has been so backward in technology , even tho it had lots of time and potential. It's possible Odium used futuresight to see that technological growth would severely harm his cause Or perhaps he saw how much stronger humans became once Soulcasters and Regrowth fabriels were granted to them. So perhaps when Odium went hibernating , he realized the peacetime would allow technology to flourish and hence , he tasked one of the Unmade with strangling innovation. I think this Unmade would not have been mindless like Nergaoul , since it's task required much more precision. Also note that Soothing generally requires greater precision than Rioting. This seems to be true on Roshar as well. I also believe that this Unmade had a greater geographic range than Nergaoul or Moelech. Nergaoul settled in Alethkar until the thrill became an important part of Alethi culture and war drive , whereas Moelach moved adopted a more nomadic lifestyle , moving from one region to another dragging death rattles along with it. Our Unmade however had to cover all of Roshar. Technology has a way of spreading from one region to another , leave one small region and any tech they invent would soon spread across the continent, hence this was an absolute requirement. No region could be spared. It makes sense. Odium left Nergaoul loose to prevent political unity in roshar and Nergaoul has succeded. The 10 highly interconnected Silver kingdoms have all gotten smaller or fragmented or gone extinct and got more isolated as well. Many regions in central roshar are either unpopulated or at tribal levels of political organization. I think Nergaoul is atleast partially responsible for this situation. The Alethi unification was a freak occurrence , a deviation. Indeed , it would have been short lived too if not for the events that occured , mainly Gavilar's assassination, as we know Sadeas was planning on seizing power , Elkohar was weak ,Dalinar would have remained a drunk. Alethkar would have broken down again as it did after Sadees the Sunmaker died. So Nergaoul inhibited political unity , whereas our Unmade inhibited technological growth. As for why this smothering effects have ceased , atleast in Eastern Roshar , I believe the Sons of Honor were responsible. We know about the blacklighted gems Gavilar had and Navani says that gavilar thought he had created them. Could it be that Gavilar and the SoH , had imprisoned the part of the Unmade over Eastern Roshar ? Maybe they thought this would lead to technological growth ( a proven assumption ) which would force Odium into coming back soon , which in turn would force the heralds to return. Maybe this was one of the reasons Odium manipulated Gavilar's assassination, except Rayse didn't plan on Szeth fulfilling Gavilar's dying wish and hiding the gemstone. I think it's imprisonment is somewhat akin to Ruin's imprisonment. Like Ruin's mind was imprisoned. Similarly maybe the Unmade's mind along with part of it's body is imprisoned. The rest of it is now covering most of Roshar and smothering growth by instinct. And I admit , this following point is really teneous, but jasnah and I believe Navani too , saw a marked shift in Gavilar's personality towards the end right . Could that also be linked to the Unmade ? Maybe Gavilar was always smart , but the Unmade had suppressed that aspect of him ? Navani too seemingly went through a similar if less striking change in personality. It is only in recent years that she has immersed herself in fabriel science and while Gavilar's death and her exclusion from her usual social circles could be most of the reason. I don't think that's all. After all she could contributed more as an artifabrian even when Gavilar was alive . From what I know she was active in the community before but only later ,after becoming a widow does she show great creativity and innovation. Similarly , Maybe it was also a factor in turning Dalinar from a simpleminded brute to a philosopher. Of course , Cultivation and Honor's visions and Gavilar's death all effected him but still him going all philosophical to such an extent is a marked difference from his earlier personality in such a short term. So what do y'all think ?
  3. Ok, so bear with me on this one. Something has been bothering me, like many who read Oathbringer, ever since Odium said "We killed you." Like many Stormlight fans, I have been mentally (and literally) screaming "What do you mean by WE!" And anyway I've done some thinking, and I think that Unity, instead of a new Shard, as many have theorized, is actually and old Shard that used to live on Roshar. A Shard that was (presumably) killed by Odium and ((possibly Honor?)) (((Working together?))) There is a little possible evidence for this. In the death rattles, one of them goes like "Three of Sixteen ruled, now the broken one reigns" or something like that. Feel free to correct that. Anyway, the way that is worded makes it seem like Odium, the broken one, is not in that original three. Also, since we know there are 3 god-spren--the Storm dad, Nightwatcher, and the Sibling, that leads me to believe that there used to be 3 Shards other than Odium, since it doesn't make sense to me that a Knight Raidiant would bond to a spren of Odium, or that Cultivation or Honor would have two god-spren. That other Shard, Unity, was not liked by Honor or Cultivation or any other Shard. Which makes sense, because they might feel threatened by the fact that he might try to Unite the Shards back into Adonalsium or something. I'm thinking that the Cryptics might be spren of Unity, which is why nobody likes them. It also just makes sense, because math and lies don't really make sense as belonging to Honor or Cultivation, but I can see Unity liking the fact that math is a unifying principle of the universe or something like that. Also, it would make sense because the Dawn Cities are all math based, and they are linked the Uthirthiru in some way ( I think theres a line about the strata being similar? And they both are grown out of rock? Feel free to check that.) And we know that the sibling was related to the tower city as well. So, if the Sibling is a spren of Unity, it all works out. Honor or Cultivation (or both) wanted to get rid of him, but couldn't due to limitation based on their Shard Intent. Neither of them could kill Unity, so they invited Odium, knowing his violent reputation, to come on over to Roshar so he could take care of Unity. That also explains why Odium was allowed onto Roshar on the first place, because I feel like two Shards working together could have blocked him from coming there, if they so wished. Anyway, Odium splintered Unity (possibly with help from one or more of the other Shards) and decided to stay. Eventually, he also splintered Honor, and Cultivation went into hiding. A part of Unity survived, and may have been that voice that's been guiding Dalinar since Book One. That voice seems really distinct from the Stormfather, and I think he once even said so in Oathbringer that he wasn't talking when Dalinar heard the "Unite them" voice. The light that Dalinar feels at the end of books Two and Three may also be the effects of Unity. Dalinar was able to briefly hold whatever is left of Unity, which allowed him to summon the Perpendicularity and all that fun stuff at the end of Book 3. I think that as the books progress, we will only keep on seeing how Unity is actually separate, and wants to be revived. Some odd bits: The splintering might have been the Scouring of Aimia. The Aimians that are a bunch of cremlings seem like something that Unity might have created or liked (since it's a bunch of cremlings unified into one creature) and he might have lived in Aimia. The Unmade might be corrupted Splinters of Unity. I don't think that Odium could have nine relatively large spren of himself and still remain as powerful as he is, so I think he corrupted the Splinters of Unity after he killed him, and those became the Unmade. Obviously, it isn't a perfect theory. And if you've made it to the bottom, congrats on somehow getting through all my disorganized thoughts. Anyway, I want to know what you think, so please feel free to share your thoughts on my theory!
  4. The unmade clearly were once something different likely of honor or cultivation. My theory is that they were the dawnshards. My evidence is the abilities of one of the unmade an and the quote of one of the dawnshards. The quote from a poem that jasnah finds while researching in the palinaeum about the dawnshards states roughly it can bind any creature voidish or not. This sounds similar to the unmade that can bind the chosen and allow them to manipulate the surges. However it could just also be that the dawnshard is a reflection of the surge of connection uses by the bondsmith. Also the fact that there are nine unmade indicates that they originate in braize. This is my best guess.
  5. The unmade clearly were once something different likely of honor or cultivation. My theory is that they were the dawnshards. My evidence is the abilities of one of the unmade an and the quote of one of the dawnshards. The quote from a poem that jasnah finds while researching in the palinaeum about the dawnshards states roughly it can bind any creature voidish or not. This sounds similar to the unmade that can bind the chosen and allow them to manipulate the surges. However it could just also be that the dawnshard is a reflection of the surge of connection uses by the bondsmith. Also the fact that there are nine unmade indicates that they originate in braize. This is my best guess.
  6. I thought it was obvious but I cant find a WOB to support it.
  7. We got the whole thrill gem would could we use it for?
  8. *stormlight spoilers* So one of the big things that stood out to me reading the Roshar intro in Arcanum Unbounded is that the spren predate the arrival of the shards. This changes the way I think about the spren. I'd thought they were all splinters that had split off of the shards, but now we know it's a bit more complicated. So on to the theory--the unmade are massive spren that existed on roshar pre-shattering. Upon the arrival of Odium, they were corrupted and coopted his investiture. They were made, then they were unmade. I also have similar thoughts about the sibling. Either he's some huge spren (the spren of the Rosharan continent, maybe?) or the same kind of spren that the unmade were. Maybe...there were ten major spren (ten's a good number for Roshar). When Odium corrupted nine of them to make the Unmade, one escaped and became the Sibling. This could either be way off, or something everyone's figured out already Guess I'll find out. I'd love to hear what you think!
  9. It...has to do with the Unmade, right? That's about all I know.
  10. Okay so we know that Sja-anat can corrupt spren, with us first assuming she could just corrupt normal spren. Then we find out that she has already corrupted Glys and created a weird mixed investure KR. It's like whoa cool! But this has got me thinking. What else can she corrupt. I seem to remember OB saying something about how Sja-anat could corrupt humans, and we know that she can corrupt powerful spren. (Truthwatcher spren, and Oathgate Spren) But my question is does she corrupt spren, or just investure. Because if so could she make some Corrupted Honorblades? I want theories, but also cool ideas of Sja- corrupted investure. The second part does not have to confined to Roshar
  11. Okay so in all the books, you never see Kaladin feel the effects of the thrill. All the other character viewpoints you see it (dalinar especially) but why doesn't Kaladin As a youth he probably didn't feel it because Moelach was in the shattered plains rather than bothering about Amarams domain. But what about when he gets to the shattered plains? There is nothing that says that a radiant can't feel the thrill. In fact we know by shallan's experience with the heart of revel that the KR can be affected by the unmade. Your Thoughts?
  12. As we all know, both from WOB's and Hessia Mythica, Moelach is the Unmade that sends Death Rattles. Now, we've been told that future sight in the Cosmere is a no-no in general and is particularly bad on Roshar since it's 'of Odium'. Obviously the being who causes the Rattles is doing a bad thing. The question is, is that the extent of its powers? If all it does is send cryptic messages to dying people then that seems pretty ineffective. I mean, Odium lives in the Spiritual Realm; any information Moelach can induce in his victims is presumably already known by the big bad. And no one on Team Honor would trust that information once the source of it becomes known. Has there been any indication that Moelach is more than what it seems or are the Death Rattles its only trick? And if that really is his only thing, does anyone wanna speculate on how that would harm Team Honor or aid Team Odium?
  13. Unmade Origins Most people probably already know this but Unmade are named after deities of the ancient near east, they also have some linguistic connections to Urdu/Hindi languages: While this might not hold any significance i believe this isn't a mere coincidence, they are ancient godspren. I find this quote particularly interesting, it depicts Unmade as related to human emotions, not people, not parshmen. This connection might suggest that Unmade share their origin with humanity - the devastated world of Ashyn. Just as Stormfather embodies Highstorm or Nightwatcher - Transformation, Unmade would personify forces which shaped the world itself - powerful emotions that defined life on Ashyn. At first, i considered each one to represent particular Vice, like Wrath or Gluttony, but there's much more to them: They are not inherently good or evil, they are both, Vices and Virtues depending on one's perception. Each Unmade embodies the whole spectrum of a particular passion, just like Nergaoul personifies will to fight, some could interpret it as desire to protect, others to conquer. Divine Attributes We all know that each Order has set of Divine Attributes linked with it, apparently, they are somehow connected to the Unmade. I assume every Radiant has innate Virtue/Vice, related to Divine Attributes. A secondary surge of each order is considered dangerous. This is something that is mentioned over and over, Jasnah warns Shallan about Transformation, Nale says roughly the same thing to Szeth about Division, etc. Obviously, it's not relevant to the nature of power itself, because adjacent order gets it as their primary surge. Philosophically virtue is an elusive concept, it demands careful and sustained reflection before it can become part of one's life. Radiants seem to share this view, giving the nature of their Oaths. Pursuing a Virtue blindly and failing to understand it, might turn it into a Vice. Perhaps danger associated with the second surge, is related to twisting an ideal into something bad, possibly exposing Radiant to an Unmade/Odium? Virtue lies in Divine Attribute linked with corresponding Order. For example, Windrunners exhibit will to Protect people and show great capabilities in Leading them. Their attitude/perception makes the concepts of Leading/Protecting easy to grasp and comes naturally to them. Vice, on the other hand, is related to Attributes of adjacent Order. Windrunners or at least Kaladin, struggle with the idea of Justice. Kal view of this ideal is distorted, he takes it personally and allows emotions to cloud his judgment, his attempt at being righteous almost killed Syl. On a side note, Jezrien translates to "the Judge" in urdu, coincidence? While Moash still shows the attitude of a Windrunner through his desire to protect Parshmen, he contorted Just into Vengeful and led him to Odium. Similarly, Szeth stumblings revolve around being blindly obedient and not brave enough to challenge his masters. He mustered the courage to defy Nale and escaped Odium grasp as opposite to the rest of Skybreakers. If my assumptions are correct there is no Unmade related to Pious/Guiding attributes. I hate to poke a hole in Talenel's immaculate image but he remained unbroken simply because there is no Unmade corresponding to his Vice, not his unbreakable will. This gives at least some semblance to Heralds idea that he could handle tortures indefinitely, i assume they would need more substantial argument than just Taln being stubborn and blessed with strong willpower. Keep in mind that this not means being immune to influence of the other Unmade. Another piece giving this reinforcing this theory is particular relation of Thrill, Dalinar and Kaladin. Kaladin might not feel the same Thrill as other men do but still, have similar exultation. Stormlight drives him to action, grants immense focus and endurance, in the same way, as Thrill affects Dalinar. I suspect Windrunners share this characteristic, they receive purified version of the Thrill devoid of bloodlust. While this feeling is empowered by Stormlight/Honor, Kaladin felt this before bonding Sylphrena, thus this seems more like a natural affinity. Conversely, Dalinar is super susceptible to this effect, to him violence is intoxicating and addicting, he revels in conquest. Perhaps this is the reason why Bondsmiths bear no Blades, as a reminder of their Vice. Apparently, this correlation encompasses each pair of Radiant Orders and Heralds, one's Virtue becomes Vice of the other. If proven true, this theory could provide an answer to most persisting questions, the madness of Heralds, a reason for Recreance and Cataclysm of Ashyn. Let me know what you think.
  14. The recent Shardcast discussing the Part 3 Epigraphs (the gemstone recordings) brought some things together in my mind, and prompted an intriguing question. Things we know: After Aharietiam the Fused were confined to Braize and Odium could not provide the Regals with voidlight. However, during an event known as the False Desolation, Ba-Ado-Mishram was able to stand in for Odium and provide voidlight to the singers, enabling them to use the forms of power. Melishi the bondsmith came up with a plan to counter this and organized a strike force of Truthwatchers to capture Ba-Ado-Mishram. (For more about Melishi and the False Desolation, check out this thread or listen to the Shardcast linked above.) Ba-Ado-Mishram has not been active in modern Roshar, and is presumably still trapped. (For more about that, see this thread.) Epigraphs where we learn about all this: So what do we know about trapping Unmade? We saw it happen once in OB, along with some additional hints. While difficult to accomplish, it's only slightly more complicated that "grab the spren and stick it in a gem." You need one of the special "perfect" gemstones like the King's Drop and you need bait. You may or may not also need a bondsmith to lock the Unmade inside. The gemstone recording says "It would require a special prison. And Melishi." I don't know whether Melishi is functioning as bait or as prison warden here, but since his stratagem was "related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths" I am inclined toward the latter. But you definitely need bait. Taravangian describes it to Dalinar this way, in reference to lesser spren: Remembering this, Dalinar decides to make himself the bait for Nergaoul during the battle of Thaylen Field. That is an obvious match since the Blackthorn is the perfect vessel for the Thrill, someone who was gleefully addicted it for decades. In the sub-basement of Urithiru, Shallan learns that a previous Lightweaver served as bait for Re-Shephir. Excerpt of the Re-Shephir confrontation from Ch 30: So Re-Shephir is similar to creationspren, the presumed secondary spren of Lightweavers that are attracted to their artistic abilities. And Shallan is all about creating imitations of things, which makes her extremely compatible with Re-Shephir (note the Unmade's attempt to displace Pattern). So when Shallan opens herself to Re-Shephir, it is too much like the last encounter with a Lightweaver and Re-Shephir flees, fearing imprisonment. Shallan encounters two more Unmade in Kholinar. Sja-Anat just talks to her, but Ashertmarn is attracted to her. The attraction isn't related to her Lightweaver status this time, but rather to her fracturing psyche full of competing desires: This affinity is real, but doesn't seem anywhere close to the oneness that Shallan experiences with Re-Shephir, or that Dalinar has Nergaoul. The odd thing to note is that Melishi's strike team appears to consist entirely of Truthwatchers. This indicates that members of that order may be uniquely suited to act as bait for Ba-Ado-Mishram. So what are the qualities of Truthwatchers, and what can that tell us about the personality/effects of this particular Unmade? (Presumably we could draw conclusions about the Truthwatchers from information about the Unmade, but we know even less about her than we do about the order.) We know that they use Progression and Illumination. They are associated with Pailiah's divine attributes: learned and giving. The in-world Words of Radiance has this to say: They were secretive and... that's about it. If only Ba-Ado-Mishram and not Sja-Anat were the Unmade known as the Taker of Secrets. But no, that can't be it. Honestly I'm pretty stumped at this point. Brandon has repeatedly RAFO'd information about the Truthwatchers, so we don't have any useful WoBs about their resonance, their nahel spren, or the lesser spren associate with their order. The only thing we have is a soft confirmation that they are an order that "is about using knowledge to help people" (questioner's phrasing). There has been a fair amount of speculation in other threads about the Truthwatcher resonance, but nearly all of our data comes from Renarin who, after the reveals of OB, is clearly not representative. He says he "sees," which I believe applies to more than his atypical future sight, but there is not clear textual support for that yet. I'm still pondering this relationship between the Truthwatchers and Ba-Ado-Mishram, and I will be looking for more hints on my reread. My best guess at this point has to do with discerning the essence of things. She served as a general during Desolations, and that ability to perceive would be extremely useful in that context. I look forward to seeing your suggestions and speculation.
  15. So - been reading through stuff about the Unmade while I wait for mates in a pub, and something just struck me. We know that Honor created the Heralds and poured part of his power into them. Based off what we know about how Odium and Honor can enter into pacts regarding the use of champions, what if something similar happened originally. Honor created the Heralds and Odium reacted against this by creating his own set of Heralds. Something changed his mind, or he wasn't happy about putting his power into them and he went back on this, in effect, be Unmade his Heralds. However, as we know, emotions, forces, perception of reality create Spren. What if after being unmade the memory of these Heralds produced them in their current form. Hence them being an abberation and something weird. They weren't originally Spren, but became Spren. Now - please rip this theory to shreds. I haven't had time to look through the WOB to disapprove myself. Is this a conceivable theory?
  16. Could the Unmade be something like Honor's Heralds, but of Odium? And if they could be, wouldn't it be interesting if they were the "Patrons" of the Voidbinding "Orders"? If Ba-Ado-Mishram could grant Voidlight, maybe she was the "Patron" of the Voidbinding equivalent of the Bondsmiths. I would love to hear your opinions on this!
  17. Since so many people seem intent on matching the Unmade with Heralds or Surges or whatever, I thought I would bring this forward. I wish I could remember or find the WOB I think supports this, but each Shard has a number that is special to it, or something. For Preservation, it's 16. For Honor it's 10. And for Odium, it's 9. This is why there are 9 Unmade, and we'll see more 9 showing up as we learn more about Odium. EDIT: And why not add a crackpot theory while I'm at it? Adonalsium split into 16 numbered Shards. One through Sixteen. Another guess is that Autonomy is number One also.
  18. Spoiler warning maybe? So the unmade are spren right? And the keeper of secrets tells shallan to ask her son about trust, who im assuming is pattern when she refers to it, in oathbringer when shes at the gate. Heres a theory and prove me wrong if u want my friends and i argue about it, were the unmade the original "higherspren" of honor like the stormfather, only of each order of radiant. But then corrupted by odium before the nahel bond started? Why she says they were made, then unmade?
  19. I have theory that I don't know if it has been brought up elsewhere. What if the sibling is the term for an unmade that has swapped sides as apart of the terms of the oathpact and is currently in a state of a coma as it's nature changes sides. Odium allows one of his minons to help humanity per each cycle and this rotates per each cycle. One of the unmade not active at present would be waiting for their new bondsmith to bond them as the "Sibling" currently sleeping has awoken as it's previous unmade self. This would account for there being 9 unmade while 10 is a specific number on roshar. It would also count for the unmade names to change as they have been confused as to which side they are and mistrust of the nightmother to be considered as one of the unmades.
  20. I know that this is probibly a long shot but i cant shake the thought and i want to hear feed back what if the Unmade are cognitive shadows of other shards that Odium has stolen, and bent to his will. He unmade them, but from what? there are three mindless Unmade and at least three shards that Odium has kill off of Roshar. Honor and Cultivation would have safe guarded their own. when Shallan encountered the Midnight Mother she said it was like a Spren but so wrong, (or was that the heart of the revel,) Shah Jahan describes herself as being made and then unmade, and her attitude towards our heroes shows that she remembers fighting him, or a mentality that apposes him.
  21. I'm wondering: is it possible the "Sibling" was twisted and broken up into the unmade? We have this about the unmade from the Arcanum: Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) 1) The Nightwatcher and Stormfather are parallel entities such that Nighwatcher:Cultivation :: Stormfather:Honor. 2) There is sort of a parallel for Odium, but the parallel is the various Unmade instead of a single entity. 3) They are parallel in that they are all Splinters. 4) The Unmade are voluntary Splinters, because Odium ("like almost all of the other Shards") voluntarily Splintered part of it's power. 5) The Stormfather is different from the others because it's a Sliver. source So Odium voluntarily Splintered part of its power into the Sibling, then somehow the Sibling splinters into the Unmade (probably parallel or similar to the splintering of Adonalsium). On Roshar, there is one splinter for Honor (the Stormfather) and one for Cultivation (the Nightwatcher). Why would Odium have nine splinters (the unmade)? We know there is a sibling, but if the sibling is Odium's splinter, then where do the unmade fit in? In my mind, it's possible the Unmade were once one splinter: the sibling. Given that Dalinar has imprisoned the Thrill, I'm also wondering if uniting the Unmade will become a goal of his. Certainly sabotaging the Heralds and the Unmade are part of the war against each other, but if Dalinar can remove all the Unmade from the playing field by uniting them back together... Disclaimer: I searched "unmade+sibling+unite+dalinar" and still got over 1,000 results on the forums. This theory seemed different enough from the ones I read - I know there are a few threads regarding things Dalinar needs to unite, and what/who the Unmade are, and who the Sibling is, but none actually seemed to put them together. Regardless, I apologize if this has already been discussed!
  22. The Unmade are "twisted spren" created by odium, with the appearance of varying degrees of sentience, though the Name strongly implies that they were something else originally that Odium "unmade" and rebuilt for his purposes. They also (occasionally) have fairly distinctive names, which planted a nagging seed in my mind that I want to explore. So: Do we know anything definitive about the origins of the UnMade? Is is possible that the variance we've seen is because they where made from more than one base species? And if so, is there any reason he couldnt have gotten Yolen Natives (Dragons and/or Sho Del) for those base materials? For what it's worth: this was sparked by me mistakenly thinking that "Uli Da" was typically hyphenated the same way several of the Unmade are, and I thought it could a really interesting late-SA reveal to discover that they were not native to Roshar at all but where part of an entourage that Odium carried with him.
  23. I admit right off the bat that at this point this is almost entirely a matter of conjecture, since there isn't really a shred of hard evidence for it one way or another, but I thought I'd put it out there and see what everyone thinks. As per Oathbringer, we know that the Unmade Sja-anat wants to defect from Odium (or at least that's what she has claimed, and for the sake of argument I'm just going to assume that this isn't merely a ploy and that she is being genuine), and that she seemingly aided Kaladin, Adolin and Shallan by preventing the Oathgate she had corrupted from killing them. And that got me thinking: Sja-anat, along with the other Unmade, are supposedly Splinters of Odium's power that gained sentience (at least in the case of some of the Unmade) or else were deliberately created by Odium, which should mean that they would share Odium's general nature, but from what we've seen this doesn't appear to necessarily be the case with Sja-anat; she seems to be fighting to free herself from Odium's influence. Ironically, it would almost seem like the corrupter is itself corrupted, or at least in the process of it. So if this is true, and admittedly this does depend on a number of unproven assumptions, it begs the question of what exactly could be behind this. Honor? Possibly, though I personally don't think so, because corrupting Sja-anat so as to make her betray Odium doesn't really seem like it would be consistent with what we know of Honor's nature. Cultivation? Again, possible, and in my opinion far more likely than Honor. But what if it's another Shard altogether? A Shard who most people assume is an ally (albeit probably in a very loose way) of Odium and whose Shardic Intent would certainly seem to be compatible with 'corrupting' something with the desire for freedom and individuality. Might it be that Autonomy isn't quite as sympathetic to Odium's cause as she would have him believe? Like I said earlier, at this point this is purely conjecture. However, we do know that in spite of what she would have others believe, Autonomy has no qualms about meddling in the affairs of other worlds, including other worlds that have Shards, if we assume that she is the one behind the opposition of Harmony on Scadrial. So, is it really that big of a stretch to assume that maybe she's meddled on Roshar as well? Could it be that Autonomy is subtly opposing Odium by 'infecting' one of his greatest servants with a spark of her own power? At this point, I honestly don't know, and I'm by no means convinced of this (in fact, I honestly think it's probably more likely false than true). But it would have a certain poetic form of irony if it did turn out to be true.
  24. On Roshar there are 9 Splinters of Odium whose function is similar to Honor's Heralds. The Unmade, harbingers of chaos and calamity. But at the end of OB we saw on screen that they can be captured in much the same manner as the spren used for fabrials. It requires a perfect gemstone, a person who's naturally attractive to the particular Unmade to draw it in, and someone who is strong willed enough resist its influence. This post will attempt to match Unmade with characters likely to succeed in capturing them. Of course this list is incomplete since we don't yet know the function of all the Unmade. For some of these I'll try to speculate but naturally this is open to commentary. Known Capure Capacity The two Unmade we know align with certain characters as revealed in OB. Nergaoul - Dalinar (captured) Re-Shepir - Shallan (capture capable) Speculative Capture Capable Characters These are based on what we know of the Unmade, matched to a character that alligns to its function, however loosely Moelach (Death Rattles) - Renarin Ashertmarn (Heart of the Revel) - Lyft (tenuous connection due to her love of food) Unknown Capacity These are the Unmade that we know hardly anything about besides a name. More information needed to determine an alignment. -Chemoarish (Dustmother) -Dai-Gonarthis (Black Fisher) Questioned Capacity These are Unmade of whose function is reasonably certain, but ones for who character alignment is little more than guesswork. - Yelig-Nar (Blightwind) - Has already consumed Amaram and Aseudan. Grants all Surges in exchange for a loss of form. - Sja-Anat - A corruptor of Spren. May remain uncaptured because she is trying to defect. A Spy type would be most likely alignment. - Bo-Ado-Mishram - Odium's General. Grants Voidlight. Was previously captured by Bondsmith Melishi. Due to power, may need to be aligned to another Bondsmith to be recaptured. (Was she released or is she still trapped?)
  25. I don’t really have any evidence for this assumption, at least not hard evidence. However, in the scene where he accidentally walks in on Shallan in a nightgown, I noticed something odd he said. He said, “...my name is Adolin Kholin, I was born under the sign of the nine...” Knowing Brandon, I wouldn’t dismiss this as coincidence out of hand. We know Braize, Odium’s Invested planet, is related to the number nine. Since Preservation’s number was 16, Honor seems to be 10, while Odium is 9. Nine shadows of his Champion, Nine Unmade, etc. We have WoB on that, can’t find it. Anyway, what is “the sign of nine”? Why does it happen that a main character, who has had nothing special happen to him as an individual thus far (at least in comparison) suddenly mention this supposedly unimportant fact in passing? Coincidence? Not likely.