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Found 91 results

  1. So, we know about many Unmade powers 1. Moelach can give limited futursight, its speculated that is able to pull informations from dying. 2. Nergaoul - battle rage. 3. Sia-Anat - can change Spren. 4. Ashertmarn - gluttony 5. Re-Sephir - mimcry 6. Ba-Ado-Mishram - comanding forces and creating Connection 7. Yelig-Nar - can bond with human, granting him all 10 Surges But we dont know about powers of 2 Unmade, and one is complet mistery. We only have misterious Death Rattle about Dai-Gonartis taking away pain - what is really wierd, because this is also what Odium himself offers people. So: Dai-Gonarthis is able to manipulate emotions of people (like Allomancy) and seed mistrust. Why I think this? So, what we know about Dai-Gonarthis. We know practicly 2 things: 1. He was somehow involve in Scouring of Aimia 2. He can "take someones pain" Now we can put together this knowledge and Moashes appearence in Ch8. Moash is emotionless, he gave away his pain... and other emotions as well. Is completly hollow. And is able to somehow push away Syl from Kal, what is very similar what happend to Stormfather when Odium speaks with Dalinar. But I dont think that Odium is here, with Moash, this is not how he works - but Unmade can be here. Unmade with power to sooth someone emotions (Moash) and riot emotions in someone else (Kaladin). Kal was overwhelmed with Moashes words, much more that is "normal" even with his depresion. Of course, this can be because Moash is his friend and he sworn to protect him... or maybe Vyre now has additional shadow what follows him - Unmade. Also, many see this conversation as Moash trying to convince Kal to suicide - but i saw this as Moash trying to "DarthVader" Kal - by giving pain to Odium. If Dai-Gonarthis is on place, with Moash, can "take pain" immediately. In other case this need time to form Connection with Odium (like Dalinar or Moash). Another part of theory is binded with Urithiru history in gems. In this place i want to thank @hoiditthroughthegrapevine, who collected all gem-archives in his topic about Ba-Ado-Mishram. Without this, probably i wasnt able to create this theory. We know that Sibling withdraw from Urithiru, we dont know why. But we know that one effect of this was falling Protection against Unmade influence. Drawer 3-11: Garnet (Lightweaver) CH 73 But witch one Unmade? Moelach, Nergaoul, Ashertmarn are easy to recognise and rather easy to avoid - they are mindless, so they are atracted by certain things like other spren. Yelig-Nar also is easy, he need host to have full potential. Radiants know where Ba-Ado-Mishram is, Re-Sephir is tricky, but is possible to imprisoned her (maybe even she is improsoned, we dont know when this happend), and she is rather simple in action. Chemoarish was not seen 2000 years, even is not known what she is able to. This lives us two possibilities: - Sia-Anat - of course dangerous, can change Spren, what can be very bad for Radiants. Maybe even she was there. - Dai-Gonarthis Its few times mention how Radiant are divided. How Orders dont trust each other anymore and argue all the time, especially Windrunners and Skybreakers. And this can be influence of Unmade - little touch rioting emotions. Radiants fear Sia-Anat, but another Unmade influence them subtly, with very big effect. Probably normaly Bondsmiths were able to counter Dai-Gonarthis rather easly, but now is only one Bondsmith, and divisions between Orders is too big even without Unmade Influence. And now we go to Aimia. We know that Dai-Gonarthis somehow influence Scouring. We also know from "Dawnshard" Prologue, that Scouring wasnt one event, it were series of wars. Probably civil wars on Islands. So is easy to understand how destroy land the easiest - influence powerfull people to chalange each other. Dai-Gonartis was influencing nobles, riots internal conflicts, what in place with 3 races probably existed, and this cause the destruction of Archipelago, especially when both sides used Soulcasters on massive scale So we have it. I still dont know how to connect this with Dai-Gonarthis precursor, Semic God of Sea Dagon and with his other name, Black Fisher. But maybe i will, with your help. What do you think?
  2. This is kind of a compilation of my thoughts about it. I'm sorry if it's hard to read but I couldn't get it to come together as a research paper so much as writing out outlined sections. (I made some edits for clarity.) I. The Case for Consumption Here, I talk about what I think Voidbinding actually is. Let's begin with the following WoB: My intent behind this question was to establish that the Unmade are using Voidbinding on some level. This has been a suspicion of mine ever since I came up with the model I will describe in a later section. The powers of the Unmade have not been mimicking established magic (Surgebinding or the Old Magic), so it seemed clear to me that they were doing something else entirely. As Splinters of Odium, it seemed the most likely that they were using Odium's magic to accomplish some of what they do. More on this is also in a later section, as I will be going into more detail on the powers of the Unmade there. I call this section "The Case for Consumption" simply because the term is heavily affiliated with the Unmade. Five of the nine (Yelig-nar, Dai-Gonarthis, Re-Shephir, Nergaoul, Ashertmarn) have all had the word directly used in some manner about them. Over half does not strike me as a coincidence. The Unmade are also believed to be "personifications of kinds of destruction" (The Way of Kings Ch. 45 epigraph), and consumption would be one way in which they achieve that. Note that I speak of Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual destruction, as we have seen examples of some of those in how the Unmade afflict people. The other point I raise about consumption being the primary core of Voidbinding has to do with the nature of the Shard of Odium itself. "This was something so terrible that it consumed light itself." (Oathbringer Ch. 57) Presumably, this is Dalinar being given a glimpse of the Shard as it exists in the Spiritual Realm, but he nevertheless describes it as this all-consuming force of hatred. Voidbinding, therefore, sources from that key nature. Between the Unmade being likened to "kinds of destruction" and the Shard itself being likened to an all-consuming flame, putting two and two together shows that Voidbinding is a destructive art. Given the name, and how Odium is referred to as "the empty pit that sucks in emotion", it seems plausible to me to assert that "consuming" would be the basis behind an Odium-based magic. II. The Model / Known Levels Let's just dive right into it, shall we? Note that I am intentionally leaving out the mindless Unmade here. Level 1 -- Consumption This level draws power from an external source, depleting it, similar to how one draws power stored in a metalmind. In this level, Voidlight is the result. One synthesizes the depleted attribute into Voidlight, and this does cause damage to the afflicted, which would justify Voidbinding as a "dark and evil thing". This is the level I believe to be most commonly used by the Unmade (all nine, in fact). They Invest themselves by way of consuming a target attribute and use that power directly for one or more purposes. I also note that performing this act would make it akin to the Old Magic, which (if we assume it's what the Nightwatcher does) also causes a depletion in exchange for something else. Here, we have depletion in exchange for power. (n.b. I suspect they have a name for this that's somewhat euphemistic, similar to how corrupted spren are "Enlightened".) Unknown Level - Midnight Essence Re-Shephir is the primary source of this. I have more to say about Re-Shephir later on. Unknown Level - Surge Binding Yelig-nar performs this "service" for his hosts, at the cost of consuming their soul. I note that the aspects involved seem to be Spiritual. Unknown Level - Enlightening Here we have Sja-anat's touch. While this does not seem very consumptive, because we haven't seen the effect performed on screen, I note that it is possible to change an organism through consumption, and I refer everyone to virology for more information on the subject. A hostile takeover of the host's internal workings is one of the ways viruses propagate throughout the body, and white cells consume affected cells as part of its means of fighting off the infection. Now picture that in reverse: Sja-anat's Investiture is playing the roll of the white cell trying to "consume" the "infected" (not of Odium) aspects of Investiture of a spren. She thus replaces Investitures not of Odium with Investiture that is of Odium, resulting in a being that is comprised of multiple. It's like a transplant, in other words, except her ability suppresses the immuno response to it. III. The Powers of the Unmade It is my belief that the Unmade are doing more than merely Voidbinding, and that their massive areas of influence are not Voidbinding at all, but supported by it. Nergaoul, at the minimum, was heavily Invested with Voidlight (note the gem shining with it after his capture by Dalinar), and this was just after consuming a 10,000 strong army of soldiers while in the Physical Realm. Nergaoul was also very large in the Physical Realm, covering a good portion of Thaylen City, according to Navani's annotated map in Oathbringer, and was a "mountain of power" in the Cognitive Realm according to Shallan's observation. Additionally, we have Pattern commenting on another being below Kholinar's Oathgate that "is likely one of the Unmade. It must be very large on this side." I note the size of the Unmade for further discussion in a moment. One oddity that has struck me is that the Unmade have areas of influence that affect people in different ways. Nergaoul encourages violence, Ashertmarn encourages excess, to name two of them. I will not be going into specifics on what I think all nine do, but rather I will attempt to explain that some of them, such as Re-Shephir, are using Voidbinding and their own natures as a spren to project these influences over very large areas to achieve new effects, and even larger areas when in the Cognitive Realm. I will use Re-Shephir as my case study here, because of the following assertion: Re-Shephir uses Voidbinding to create Midnight Essence (presumably from living creatures). She then uses her store of Voidlight to project her nature as a spren to shape the Essence into a desired form. The shaping of Midnight Essence is not something I consider Voidbinding. My basis for this thinking is in how Shallan sees Re-Shephir as like a creationspren gone wrong. Re-Shephir has been directly observed to be making copies of "creatures she saw or consumed" (Oathbringer Ch. 110 epigraph), which is indeed similar to creationspren mimicking recently observed Physical Realm objects. Now suppose we were to trap a creationspren inside a gemstone and hook it up to a fabrial. While the effect may be unknown, I wonder if perhaps it might be possible to influence mutable substances (water, mud) into desired shapes by capturing creationspren that are mimicking such shapes. The point I am trying to make, is that spren project their natures when in the presence of stimuli and Investiture (the gem's Invested state). We've seen this most commonly with flamespren that make heat fabrials. Flamespren "evoke" the concept of heat to which they are attracted. Now imagine a spren that doesn't need to be both in a gemstone and subjected to stimuli to do this, but rather is a spren that has access to large quantities of Investiture and was, say, subjected to a certain Vessel of Odium making them be able to evoke this nature. In Re-Shephir's case, that's mimickry, an influence which can be applied to Midnight Essence. We know that Midnight Essence can be "extracted and used independently" (WoB), so the shaping of it is not exclusive to Re-Shephir. This is why I bring up the possibility of creationspren-based fabrials allowing for creating works of art with mutable substances. This projection of nature is how I see Nergaoul as capable of affecting people with the Thrill over a massive area of influence. He is so large in the Cognitive Realm, and so Invested, that like a fabrial emitting heat, he "emits" the Thrill on a very large area simply due to sheer size and power. Similar reasoning would apply to the other Unmade that influence the mind. Much like a fabrial evoking an effect, they are broadcasting specific states of being on a wide area, and it's for this reason that I think calling them spren is very accurate. We have seen something like this with Shallan and Re-Shephir, which in her case would be "twisted creativity". She created multiple drawings she can't recall doing, but were still in her sketchbook, and she also created multiple mimicries of herself without having the need to draw them first. This influence on Shallan's drawing is why I suspect Re-Shephir is projecting an influence whose effect is what enables her to alter the shape of Midnight Essence. So, with that established, I think we can say that all nine have similar influences, and that we can potentially name them _____spren for what kind of influence they project, and that because they are all Invested Splinters of Odium, they are actually affecting people much like a fabrial hypothetically could. So there you have it, a lot of words about my thoughts on Voidbinding and how it relates to the Unmade. I will be very interested to hear what everyone has to say about this work.
  3. Bondsmiths are special, we all know that. To quote the Stormfather: They get the most unique spren, which, apart from granting Tension and Adhesion, have some unique abilities or phenomena associated with them. Based on that, I always assumed that the Unmade would be the spren for the Voidbinding equivalent of the Bondsmith Order. What if that is not the case? I'd like to present some arguments why I believe the “privileged” Order of Voidbinding could be the Truthwatchers: Truthwatchers are opposite to Bondsmiths on the Surgebinding chart, symbolizing Odium and Honor as opposing forces Odium doesn't really care about uniting anyone. Spiritual Adhesion is a special, cherished power in Surgebinding. Amongst the Voidbringers, the Envoyform is granted by a lesser Voidspren and relatively low on the hierarchy Odium's signature moves are futuresight (Voidish Illumination) and corrupting Investiture/spren/people (spiritweb modification = Progression). These are also the most Spiritually oriented Voidish powers we know, just as Bondsmiths get the most Spiritually oriented Surges amongst the KR (WoB) Voidbinder's futuresight interferes with Odium's own and it would make sense for it to be available only to his very selected servants Odium's Champion, likely the most powerful Voidbinder possible, is described as surrounded by multiple shadows, a possible nod to (Mistborn spoilers) Futuresight, unlike other Voidish powers, is granted (directly or indirectly) by at least two Unmade: Sja-anat and Moelach. I would also add Ba-Ado-Mishram as a likely candidate for granting the Nightform somehow (we know from Pashendi Songs that the Unmade might provide them). Why? The Nightforms existed for the last time during the False Desolation and they apparently predicted the Everstorm (“A new storm will come, someday to break” line from Song of Secrets). That's seeing hundreds (thousands?) years into the future – a feat I can only ascribe to the influence of an extremely powerful Unmade Sja-anat seems to be the Unmade whose additional powers correspond to the Truthwatcher Order and she was the most feared amongst them. We've seen her corrupt two kinds of sentient spren: Truthwatcher and Oathgate spren. Of these, only the former get a new, distinctive Surge variant, which I think might be caused by their direct Connection to Sja-anat herself (she definitely has a Connection to her lesser spren “children” as she can communicate with people through them) Voidbinding is very mysterious, but (based on chart similarity with Surgebinding) I would assume that it requires a permanent bond with sapient Voidspren. We also know that Voidbinding typically originates with the Unmade and is somehow similar to the Old Magic. How could all of this fit together? Unmade being Truthwatcher spren offers a solution, I think: once you bond an Unmade permanently, your spiritweb and body gets seriously and visibly corrupted (think of Amaram and Aesudan) and you get a Spritual Progression ability to corrupt others in a similar way, allowing them to bond Voidspren permanently
  4. I just re-read chapter 1 of The Way of Kings, and I was struck by a couple things - the prevalence of the color red in the decor, when the Kholin color is blue, and the description Szeth gives of a "new rhythm" played by the Parshendi drummers: " a quartet of thumping hearts, pumping waves of invisible blood through the room." At least twice in the first 2 pages, he uses the word "revelry" to describe what's going on. The red might relate to something else, but the rest of it (to me) kind of screams "Heart of the Revel." What do you all think?
  5. This is essentially a continuation of my previous thread: tl;dr version of it: I believe that Near East mythology (Ugaritic Baal Cycle, specifically) predicts that Rayse and the Fused will be killed with Sja-anat's help by the end of Arc 1. Arc 2 will be about Odium reforming itself OK, we can start We know that the names of the Unmade come from Near East (mostly Canaanite) mythology (plus some Lovecraft). Imagine my surprise when I found out that the same applies to selected Heralds and the Sibling: Ishar – Ishara, originally a Canaanite love goddess, then turned into Hittite goddess of oaths, who punishes the oathbreakers. Quite a fitting connection, I would say Shalash – Shamash, Mesopotamian god of Sun and light. Once again quite a good match Jezrien – supreme god (depending on the culture: El, Anu, Amurru, Yahweh). His later name, Ahu, is (given the nature of the letter 'h') pretty much identical to Anu. I believe that the fact that his names typically start with Je-/Ya- is a link to Jehovah/Yahweh (plus he's also worshipped as the only god in Emul) The names of the other Heralds don't have mythological origin, as far as I can say, which makes sense in a way, as in the ancient Near East only royalty (Jezrien, Ash) and maybe high priests (Ishar) would use names associated with divinity. They all, however, share the suffix “'Elin” which seems to come from El, associated with Jezrien The Sibling – Ashur, who represents a deified form of the city of Assur – clearly the same concept as the Sibling and Urithiru Fun fact: staring from Ashur, we can find a nice chain of (probably Easter egg) connections scattered around the Stormlight books. Ashur appears in the name of one of the last Assyrian kins – Ashurbanipal (literally 'Ashur has given a son-heir') who happens to share some similarities with Dalinar: he was known as the king who could read and write (not a small feat, given the complexity of cuneiform and ancient Summerian and Akkadian) he lost his lands in the West, but gained new in the East his capital, Nineveh, had the largest library of ancient knowledge at the time (similar to Urithiru) and was prophesied in the Bible to be completely destroyed (similar to the fate of Kholinar in Almighty's visions) the prophecy from the previous point was made by the prophet Jonah, who was, according to Bible, swallowed by a giant fish at one point – something weirdly similar to what happens to Hoid and a greatshell, as described by Lift Given all that, I can see two interesting theories/implications: The Unmade are Odium's Heralds/Honorblades: I have assumed for a long time that the Unmade would be the Bondsmith godspren (or maybe Truthwatcher godspren) for Voidbinding, but in the light of the new evidence I believe they are the equivalent of the Heralds instead. It makes sense: they are superpowered beings using their Shard's power on a hostile Shard's territory, trying not to get captured. They are also not exactly efficient – Yelig-nar uses his hosts up rather quickly, as the Honorblades use Stormlight The new, evil Oathpact As I wrote above, I believe that Arc 2 will include reforming Odium. We know that: there is no Unmade corresponding to the Order of Bondsmiths Ishar is a crazy, egomaniac Bondsmith who possibly wants the death of all mankind Arc 2 will be about figuring out the Oathpact Based on that, a possible mechanism of Odium's return is a new, evil Oathpact on Roshar - one between Ishar and the Unmade. It could be enough for Ishar to Ascend and bring Voidbinding (10-based, Voidspren bond based magic system) to Roshar – essentially a twisted version of what Dalinar tries to achieve with Honor and the KR in Arc 1
  6. So, we know that in-world alive spren belive, that is impossible to resurrect deadeye spren, but we have other information. We also have case of Adolin, he is going to resurrect his blade, and question is when, not if (and this other wierd thing, because Edgedacers are granted with Blade on 3d Ideal, but Adolin have dead Blade allready, how this will work? He will speak 1st Ideal and he will be able to summon Blade in less and less heartbeats? Like 7 on 1st, 4 on 2nd, and 0 on 3d? BTW, I think he allready starts becoming Radiant. Durring fight against Thundrclast he took massive damage and was able to continue fighting). But when Adolin Resurrect Maya, spren and people will aknowledge that this is possible. Of course, Adolin has really close Connection with Maya, so close that he probably "rewrite" her old Connection with now-long-dead-Radiant. Maybe this can be also due Mayas nature, she is Culitvationspren, so can have bigger ability to grow and heal in time. Additionaly, it will be rally cool, that Maya will grant Adolin with Regrowth Surge, and he will use this to heal HER (if its possible of course). Anyway, not every Shardbearer has the same Connection with his Blade as Adolin has. For most, Shardblades are, simply, just blades. So to ressurect other Spren, we will need other solution. And maybe we have it. Possibility not available for ancient Radiants, even more, feared. Yep. Traitor. Odium Splinter with Will strong enough to break free. Sia-Anat. She can change Spren. And spren changed by her can restore some abilities - we saw this in Kholinar Oathgate. After Honors death, Oathgate spren are not allow to pass anyone in or out Shadesmar. But Kholinar Oathgate spren arent restricted, after Sia-Anat touch. We know also, that she has control over that changes, because Odium wants to kill Kal and co. with this Oathgate, but she choose to change spren other way. We know also that Sia-Anat children can bond with Humans, Glys is one of them afterall. This can be Sia-Anat proof of loyality and pure intentions. She may be able to remove part with Connection with dead Radiant from deadeye spren, leaving them changed, but with ability to form new Connection, and this new bond will heal Spren. And what Sia-Anat will have from this? Simply - more children. She seems to be really caring about them, what is.... wierd for Splinter of Hatered. We can also speculate that one who get this idea will be Renarin - simply because of Glys.
  7. theory

    To put it shortly: this is yet another attempt at matching the Unmade with corresponding KR Orders based on the cousin spren of these Orders (an idea very similar to the one originally presented in this thread). I based my analysis on two assumptions, which I believe lead to some interesting results: The powers that the Unmade grant when bonding with humans/Singers might match the original KR Order, but it's not 100% reliable, as Odium might have tweaked these powers for his own purpose We should rather look at the characteristics of cousin spren (how they behave, what are they attracted to, how they look and sound) and search for similar patterns amongst the Unmade Here is what I was able to find. Please note that the list will become more and more speculative as we go, and (because we know only a few cousin spren) I tried to search for similarities between lesser spren as well: Re-Shephir – Lightweavers, obviously. Shallan states that explicitly and there are clear similarities between how Re-Shehir and the creationspren act Yelig-Nar – Windrunners, once again quite obvious. The windspren are rather mischievous and often play pranks on people (e.g. sticking shoes to stone) and they can mimic people's voices. Once you look past things like growing crystals from the host's body and granting all ten Surges, you can see that Yelig-Nar is essentially an extremely malicious and powerful version of a windspren – for example, he broke into Nohadon's chancery and killed all the scribes (probably burning books as well) and he is apparently “accompanied by the wails of those he consumed” (vocal mimicry) As for the Edgedancers, it seems that their cousin spren are the lifespren. Is there an Unmade that would match them? The only candidate I can think of is Chemoarish. She is actually often conflated with the Nightwatcher (a connection with Cultivation and cultivationspren) and is called Dustmother – and the lifespren look like motes of glowing green dust or swarms of tiny, translucent insects. This is very speculative, obviously, but I think that (instead of typical Dustbringer associations) Chemoarish might represent something like a swarm of locusts. Devouring plants (which attract the lifespren) and causing famine (not all lands have access to Soulcasters, after all) seems like a fitting ability for an Edgedancer Unmade (and the biblical plague connotations fit the overall mythology of Roshar as well) We know only one more type if cousin spren (glorypspren) and it's useless because it is the one for Bondsmiths. However, the official Herald portraits show them with the cousin spren and we now have a portrait for Taln. He is surrounded by yellow-orange spren, which are unfortunately pictured as rather formless. Could these be flamespren or painspren? The latter would really work well thematically for Taln and Stonewards in general. If that is the case, the best fitting Unmade would probably be Nergaoul I'm really waiting for the three remaining Herald portraits from RoW, but in the meantime I can think of some lesser spren that could potentially be cousin spren and match some of the Unmade: Moelach, for example, seems to work in a way that reminds me of the deathspren. Both are attracted to death, obviously, and the voices of the deathspren are “whispers, scratchy sounds like paper being torn” which shows some similarity to the quote from Jezrien: “Moelach is close. I can hear his wheezing, his scratching, his scraping at time like a rat breaking through walls.”. If deathspren are indeed cousin spren, my best guess for the Order would be the Dustbringers. It would provide a nice contrast to the Edgedancers and their lifespren, plus deathspren work well linguistically with the whole Dustbringer/Ashspren terminology (“Ashes to ashes, dust to dust”). Not to mention that the Dustbringers might be, on average, the deadliest Order of the KR I've seen theories on the forum suggesting that the rainspren might be the cousin spren for Skybreakers (based on the contrast with Windrunners). They are associated with the Weeping and w know from Puuli's interlude that the fishermen work especially hard during that time. That might be scraping the bottom of the barrel, but if the line “Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!” offers some hidden clue, that might be it The Inkspren value logic greatly, and I would assume that the cousin spren of Elsecallers might be related to that (logicspren maybe?). Ba-Ado-Mishram was “said to have been keen of mind, a highprincess among the enemy forces, their commander during some of the Desolations” and I believe she would fit here quite well Sja-anat seems to have so many clues linking her to Truthwatchers that I would be surprised if she matched any other Order, which leaves us with Ashertmarn corresponding to the Order of Willshapers
  8. The first thing I would like the point out is that, this is something that came to my mind this morning when I was unable to sleep due to the heat in the UK at the moment, it could be very flawed and I could have had many things really muddled up. But, with everyones input and thoughts, I am sure more sense could be made out of this. Outside of the books, I must admit I am unsure with how much has been revealed from Sanderson himself, most of this could be unproven or thrown under the rug, but I think it's intersting. So, I have a theory about the Unmade, The Heralds and Honorblades. Basically, the history of the Unmade is very cloudy and in modern Roshar, their history is largely unknown. Some sources claimed there was 10 but it is generally assumed that there are 9. This I think is very interesting and quite important. There are 10 heralds, and only 9 Unmade (but there could be 10, see what I am getting at?). Ever since the Oathpact was abandoned, only 1 herald went to Braize, being Taln. This means there are 9 Heralds left on Roshar, incidentally there are 9 Unmade. I think there is a link there… I do believe that there are 10 Unmade, and even though sources indicate that they have existed on Roshar since before the Desolations, I debate how true this is (backed up by the clouded history). I think, in previous Desolations when the Heralds were trapped on Braize, they were being tormented and fighting against a specific Unmade (one per Herald, and its Voidspren). After the Oathpact was broken, and only Taln went to Braize, his Unmade went with him. Thus, 9 Unmade were on Roshar with the 9 Heralds, and 1 on Braize with Taln. [Off topic I thought of in my edit, but, the Unmade could be Odiums ‘Heralds’. We have seen the Fused use surges, maybe there are different types of Voidspren, similar to the different Spren needed for each order of Radiants: Honorspren, Cryptics, etc.] For whatever reason, the Voidspren remain trapped on Braize as long as one Herald and Unmade are present. (This I can’t seem to find a logical reason for, but I think it is important, something about a Herald being on Braize keeps them trapped, even if it is one Herald.) After Taln had given in, and returned to Roshar, everything on Braize was freed. Thus, the coming of the True Desolation. This also means I think a 10th Unmade has come to Roshar, one that has been ignored. (this backing up some sources from history that claim there were 10). This was the first thing I have been thinking on. Secondly, Moash and Honorblades. Moash killed Jezrien in a way that is unlike that in history, when a Herald got killed in history, they seemed to return to Braize, however, Moash killed Jezrian with a knife that contained a gemstone. I think Odium has been cunning in his planning. 4500 years had passed since the last Desolation, the longest time in history; this is A LOT of planning time. We don’t know much about the creation of Honorblades, and we know Shardblades are Spren that mimicked Radiant surges, but Honorblades are said to be a type of Splinter of Honor. I think however, Odium has found ways to create an Honorblade out of the Herald itself. This would be interesting, if the gemstone in the dagger Moash used has bound the herald, (also confirming this death being ‘different’), then perhaps that gemstone can be used to create a new Honorblade. And this could have interesting implications, imagine if his new Honorblade/Heraldblade?, allowed the wielder to become to new head of that order of Radiant. Imagine if, it actually allowed them to manipulate and ‘control’ the knights under that order; it would really mess up Dalinar’s plans. I feel like Moash will also be the first person to wield this. I find it too strange the Jezrien (being the order of windrunners, thus Kaladin, Moash’s ‘friend’) is the first Herald to be killed in this way. If a new kind of power is created from Jezrien, and Moash wields it, then, he could take control of the Windrunners, and if he is able to somehow influence them, he could turn them against Dalinar. And Moash being Moash, will probably try to convince Kaladin that this is the ‘right’ thing to do. Ironically, this could be what leads to Kaladin debating breaking his oaths, as what Syl and the Stormfather have been promising would happen, but this time, in a way that is ‘different’ to The Day of Recreance. Since this is the True Desolation, it would make more sense that things would turn out differently to how they have in the past, ESPECIALLY with this additional time Odium has had to plan.
  9. I apologize if this has already been asked, but could Sja-anat corrupt a bonded spren? We know that corrupted spren can bond (Renarin and Glys), but could an already bonded spren be corrupted by Her? Lets say Syl was exploring while Kaladin was sleeping, and came into contact with Sja-anat, who tried to corrupt Syl. Would it work? Or would her bond protect her? If it does, does it matter how strong the bond is? lets say this happened late WoR, when Syl and Kaladins bond was strained. Would it protect her then? Also, can a corrupted spren heal, or are they stuck like that forever?
  10. We got the whole thrill gem would could we use it for?
  11. A couple of years back, I posted a thread about how the names of the Unknown listed in Words of Radiance resembled a bunch of Mesopotamian gods. I'd like to start digging into the new Unmade names in Oathbringer. Previous thread: Other thread I wasn't in: In the meantime, a friend of mine asked Brandon about the Unmade names and Brandon said that he was inspired by real-world sources, but the sources didn't really have any influence on the Stormlight Archive plot. So this thread is just for fun inspiration digging. There aren't going to be any cool revelations about what will happen later in the series. Really. This is me being pedantic and academic. Anyways, I made a handy-dandy chart of the Unmade and which Mesopotamian gods I think Brandon got the names from: Unmade Nickname Powers Source? Yelig-Nar Blight Wind Consumes souls? ? Sja-anat Corrupts spren Satan (New Testament) or Anat, the Ugaritic and Egyptian goddess Nergaoul Causes the Thrill Nergal, the Mesopotamian god of death, pestilence and plague, and Lord of the Underworld Moelach Causes the Death Rattles Moloch, God of fire and chaos; child sacrifices Dai-gonarthis Black Fisher ? Dagan or Dagon, fisher or spear god Re-Shephir Midnight Mother Copycat murders Resheph, a Canaanite/Ugaritic god of plague; often equated to Nergal Ashertmarn Heart of the Revel Partying Ashera, Sumerian goddess and lady of the sea Bo-Ado-Mishram Commander of the unmade? Baal-Hadad? Seems a bit of a stretch. Chemoarish Dustmother ? Chemosh, Moabite god We previously attributed Re-Shephir to Resheph, Dai-gonarthis to Dagon (although he might not be an Unmade after all), Moelach to Moloch, and Nergaoul to Nergal. There's also been some debate over whether Sja-anat gets her name from Satan or Anat. Personally, I lean towards Anat. Anat was a goddess in both Egypt and Mesopotamian cultures, while Satan originates in the Old Testament and is never a Mesopotamian (or other nearby culture's) god. Of the new Unmade we learn about in Oathbringer, Chemoarish seems to pretty obviously take her name from the Moabite god Chemosh. The one wrinkle in that is Chemosh is a male god, while Chemoarish's sobriquet "Dustmother" implies she's a female spren. Ashertmarn is a bit more difficult. There's a goddess named Astarte/Astoreth, but I think it's Asherah, another goddess in the area. The "marn" part I have no idea about. Asherah is also called Asherah of the Sea, or Asheret Ya'am, and "mar" means "sea" in Spanish? I think that's a coincidence though. Bo-Ado-Mishram is a tough one. There's a god called Hadad who was also sometimes called Baal-Hadad (a conflation of two separate gods I think?). If you take a syllable from each name you get "Ba Ad", which is maybe a tiny bit similar? I think I'm on the wrong track with this one. Help! And as always, who the heck knows where Yelig-nar comes from. There's also the question of whether Brandon was taking inspiration from Judeo-Christian demons or Mesopotamian gods. Judeo-Christianity tends to label Mesopotamian gods as demons, hence the crossover. For example, Moloch, Dagon, Resheph, Asherah, and Nergal all get Old Testament mentions (I know very little New Testament stuff, so if anyone wants to chime in on that end that'd be great). This really comes into play over whether Sja-anat gets her name from Satan or Anat; the former is only possible if Brandon was going for demonology.
  12. So khriss mentions in AU that in 300 yrs , Scadrial has made immense progress . We have seen it first hand in BoM. She also posits that without Tlr , the technology would already be space age or post scarcity. But on Roshar , it has been 4500 yrs since the last desolation and it's still in the middle age. Now I understand that Roshar and Scadrial are quite different. Scadrial doesn't have to deal with Highstorms destroying railways and other such inventions. The shardblades also serve to deincentivize guns and explosives. But even considering those factors, Roshar is extremely backward in scientific progress and technology. On Scadrial we have seen the magic system used in novel ways to fuel technology. Yet , Roshar which has Fabriel-istics, an entire magic/science system which requires only scientific research to perfect it is still so backward !!!! Anyone could do it at any time and yet , Even among spanreeds and heating fabriels ,it's only in the past 5-6 yrs that any great progress has been made in them. This progress, however , has been extremely rapid. Spanreeds, halfshards, painriels, heating fabriels , Greatbows , alarmers , emotion sensors , stormclocks ,attractors have all been devised or perfected only in the last half decade. The information based economy of Tashikk also seems recent. Then you have the hints at other Fabriels such as Navani's drawings of an inverse ship and the floating platforms which imply heavier than air flight or maybe even spacecraft. The discovery about the flamespren obeying an Heisenberg uncertainty principle analog by the ardents in the isles in WoK is also extremely recent and a breakthrough as well. Isn't it strange that these the requirements for these discoveries/improvements have been in place for millenia and yet it is only now that the potential is crystallizing ? The Vorin kingdoms have had extremely literate women and ardents studying natural sciences for millenia. The Spren have been there even longer. The Soulcasters and Regrowth fabriels were present and endured even during the desolations. The knights radiant have been gone for 2 millenia or so , allowing for fabriels to fill in the gaps. Indeed Roshar seems to have gone through technological regression since the last desolation losing every Regrowth fabriel. And now all of a sudden , just a few years before the Resurgent desolation, large strides have been made in technology . There is another curiosity , this growth has occured only in Alethkar and Jah keved . The other regions have simply imbibed them without making any original contributions. Why has real growth not occured in the Makabaki region which seems just as suitable for creativity and innovation to flourish ? It's more suitable actually , since they don't have gender or eye colour barriers to literacy , they generally have experienced greater peace than alethkar and instead have had to face a greater range of difficulties like famines for example ( Baxil's friend mentions one in living memory ), all of which foster innovation I think the answer is that there is an Unmade whose power is analogous to Nergaoul who caused the Thrill While Nergaoul enrages one's emotions , , I believe this Unmade smothers one's intellect or more likely , perhaps the positive emotions scientific curiosity arouses . Making them incapable or atleast less likely to exhibit innovation. This is similar to how soothing and rioting form a pair in allomancy. . This would explain why Roshar has been so backward in technology , even tho it had lots of time and potential. It's possible Odium used futuresight to see that technological growth would severely harm his cause Or perhaps he saw how much stronger humans became once Soulcasters and Regrowth fabriels were granted to them. So perhaps when Odium went hibernating , he realized the peacetime would allow technology to flourish and hence , he tasked one of the Unmade with strangling innovation. I think this Unmade would not have been mindless like Nergaoul , since it's task required much more precision. Also note that Soothing generally requires greater precision than Rioting. This seems to be true on Roshar as well. I also believe that this Unmade had a greater geographic range than Nergaoul or Moelech. Nergaoul settled in Alethkar until the thrill became an important part of Alethi culture and war drive , whereas Moelach moved adopted a more nomadic lifestyle , moving from one region to another dragging death rattles along with it. Our Unmade however had to cover all of Roshar. Technology has a way of spreading from one region to another , leave one small region and any tech they invent would soon spread across the continent, hence this was an absolute requirement. No region could be spared. It makes sense. Odium left Nergaoul loose to prevent political unity in roshar and Nergaoul has succeded. The 10 highly interconnected Silver kingdoms have all gotten smaller or fragmented or gone extinct and got more isolated as well. Many regions in central roshar are either unpopulated or at tribal levels of political organization. I think Nergaoul is atleast partially responsible for this situation. The Alethi unification was a freak occurrence , a deviation. Indeed , it would have been short lived too if not for the events that occured , mainly Gavilar's assassination, as we know Sadeas was planning on seizing power , Elkohar was weak ,Dalinar would have remained a drunk. Alethkar would have broken down again as it did after Sadees the Sunmaker died. So Nergaoul inhibited political unity , whereas our Unmade inhibited technological growth. As for why this smothering effects have ceased , atleast in Eastern Roshar , I believe the Sons of Honor were responsible. We know about the blacklighted gems Gavilar had and Navani says that gavilar thought he had created them. Could it be that Gavilar and the SoH , had imprisoned the part of the Unmade over Eastern Roshar ? Maybe they thought this would lead to technological growth ( a proven assumption ) which would force Odium into coming back soon , which in turn would force the heralds to return. Maybe this was one of the reasons Odium manipulated Gavilar's assassination, except Rayse didn't plan on Szeth fulfilling Gavilar's dying wish and hiding the gemstone. I think it's imprisonment is somewhat akin to Ruin's imprisonment. Like Ruin's mind was imprisoned. Similarly maybe the Unmade's mind along with part of it's body is imprisoned. The rest of it is now covering most of Roshar and smothering growth by instinct. And I admit , this following point is really teneous, but jasnah and I believe Navani too , saw a marked shift in Gavilar's personality towards the end right . Could that also be linked to the Unmade ? Maybe Gavilar was always smart , but the Unmade had suppressed that aspect of him ? Navani too seemingly went through a similar if less striking change in personality. It is only in recent years that she has immersed herself in fabriel science and while Gavilar's death and her exclusion from her usual social circles could be most of the reason. I don't think that's all. After all she could contributed more as an artifabrian even when Gavilar was alive . From what I know she was active in the community before but only later ,after becoming a widow does she show great creativity and innovation. Similarly , Maybe it was also a factor in turning Dalinar from a simpleminded brute to a philosopher. Of course , Cultivation and Honor's visions and Gavilar's death all effected him but still him going all philosophical to such an extent is a marked difference from his earlier personality in such a short term. So what do y'all think ?
  13. Ok, so bear with me on this one. Something has been bothering me, like many who read Oathbringer, ever since Odium said "We killed you." Like many Stormlight fans, I have been mentally (and literally) screaming "What do you mean by WE!" And anyway I've done some thinking, and I think that Unity, instead of a new Shard, as many have theorized, is actually and old Shard that used to live on Roshar. A Shard that was (presumably) killed by Odium and ((possibly Honor?)) (((Working together?))) There is a little possible evidence for this. In the death rattles, one of them goes like "Three of Sixteen ruled, now the broken one reigns" or something like that. Feel free to correct that. Anyway, the way that is worded makes it seem like Odium, the broken one, is not in that original three. Also, since we know there are 3 god-spren--the Storm dad, Nightwatcher, and the Sibling, that leads me to believe that there used to be 3 Shards other than Odium, since it doesn't make sense to me that a Knight Raidiant would bond to a spren of Odium, or that Cultivation or Honor would have two god-spren. That other Shard, Unity, was not liked by Honor or Cultivation or any other Shard. Which makes sense, because they might feel threatened by the fact that he might try to Unite the Shards back into Adonalsium or something. I'm thinking that the Cryptics might be spren of Unity, which is why nobody likes them. It also just makes sense, because math and lies don't really make sense as belonging to Honor or Cultivation, but I can see Unity liking the fact that math is a unifying principle of the universe or something like that. Also, it would make sense because the Dawn Cities are all math based, and they are linked the Uthirthiru in some way ( I think theres a line about the strata being similar? And they both are grown out of rock? Feel free to check that.) And we know that the sibling was related to the tower city as well. So, if the Sibling is a spren of Unity, it all works out. Honor or Cultivation (or both) wanted to get rid of him, but couldn't due to limitation based on their Shard Intent. Neither of them could kill Unity, so they invited Odium, knowing his violent reputation, to come on over to Roshar so he could take care of Unity. That also explains why Odium was allowed onto Roshar on the first place, because I feel like two Shards working together could have blocked him from coming there, if they so wished. Anyway, Odium splintered Unity (possibly with help from one or more of the other Shards) and decided to stay. Eventually, he also splintered Honor, and Cultivation went into hiding. A part of Unity survived, and may have been that voice that's been guiding Dalinar since Book One. That voice seems really distinct from the Stormfather, and I think he once even said so in Oathbringer that he wasn't talking when Dalinar heard the "Unite them" voice. The light that Dalinar feels at the end of books Two and Three may also be the effects of Unity. Dalinar was able to briefly hold whatever is left of Unity, which allowed him to summon the Perpendicularity and all that fun stuff at the end of Book 3. I think that as the books progress, we will only keep on seeing how Unity is actually separate, and wants to be revived. Some odd bits: The splintering might have been the Scouring of Aimia. The Aimians that are a bunch of cremlings seem like something that Unity might have created or liked (since it's a bunch of cremlings unified into one creature) and he might have lived in Aimia. The Unmade might be corrupted Splinters of Unity. I don't think that Odium could have nine relatively large spren of himself and still remain as powerful as he is, so I think he corrupted the Splinters of Unity after he killed him, and those became the Unmade. Obviously, it isn't a perfect theory. And if you've made it to the bottom, congrats on somehow getting through all my disorganized thoughts. Anyway, I want to know what you think, so please feel free to share your thoughts on my theory!
  14. The unmade clearly were once something different likely of honor or cultivation. My theory is that they were the dawnshards. My evidence is the abilities of one of the unmade an and the quote of one of the dawnshards. The quote from a poem that jasnah finds while researching in the palinaeum about the dawnshards states roughly it can bind any creature voidish or not. This sounds similar to the unmade that can bind the chosen and allow them to manipulate the surges. However it could just also be that the dawnshard is a reflection of the surge of connection uses by the bondsmith. Also the fact that there are nine unmade indicates that they originate in braize. This is my best guess.
  15. The unmade clearly were once something different likely of honor or cultivation. My theory is that they were the dawnshards. My evidence is the abilities of one of the unmade an and the quote of one of the dawnshards. The quote from a poem that jasnah finds while researching in the palinaeum about the dawnshards states roughly it can bind any creature voidish or not. This sounds similar to the unmade that can bind the chosen and allow them to manipulate the surges. However it could just also be that the dawnshard is a reflection of the surge of connection uses by the bondsmith. Also the fact that there are nine unmade indicates that they originate in braize. This is my best guess.
  16. I thought it was obvious but I cant find a WOB to support it.
  17. *stormlight spoilers* So one of the big things that stood out to me reading the Roshar intro in Arcanum Unbounded is that the spren predate the arrival of the shards. This changes the way I think about the spren. I'd thought they were all splinters that had split off of the shards, but now we know it's a bit more complicated. So on to the theory--the unmade are massive spren that existed on roshar pre-shattering. Upon the arrival of Odium, they were corrupted and coopted his investiture. They were made, then they were unmade. I also have similar thoughts about the sibling. Either he's some huge spren (the spren of the Rosharan continent, maybe?) or the same kind of spren that the unmade were. Maybe...there were ten major spren (ten's a good number for Roshar). When Odium corrupted nine of them to make the Unmade, one escaped and became the Sibling. This could either be way off, or something everyone's figured out already Guess I'll find out. I'd love to hear what you think!
  18. It...has to do with the Unmade, right? That's about all I know.
  19. Okay so we know that Sja-anat can corrupt spren, with us first assuming she could just corrupt normal spren. Then we find out that she has already corrupted Glys and created a weird mixed investure KR. It's like whoa cool! But this has got me thinking. What else can she corrupt. I seem to remember OB saying something about how Sja-anat could corrupt humans, and we know that she can corrupt powerful spren. (Truthwatcher spren, and Oathgate Spren) But my question is does she corrupt spren, or just investure. Because if so could she make some Corrupted Honorblades? I want theories, but also cool ideas of Sja- corrupted investure. The second part does not have to confined to Roshar
  20. Okay so in all the books, you never see Kaladin feel the effects of the thrill. All the other character viewpoints you see it (dalinar especially) but why doesn't Kaladin As a youth he probably didn't feel it because Moelach was in the shattered plains rather than bothering about Amarams domain. But what about when he gets to the shattered plains? There is nothing that says that a radiant can't feel the thrill. In fact we know by shallan's experience with the heart of revel that the KR can be affected by the unmade. Your Thoughts?
  21. As we all know, both from WOB's and Hessia Mythica, Moelach is the Unmade that sends Death Rattles. Now, we've been told that future sight in the Cosmere is a no-no in general and is particularly bad on Roshar since it's 'of Odium'. Obviously the being who causes the Rattles is doing a bad thing. The question is, is that the extent of its powers? If all it does is send cryptic messages to dying people then that seems pretty ineffective. I mean, Odium lives in the Spiritual Realm; any information Moelach can induce in his victims is presumably already known by the big bad. And no one on Team Honor would trust that information once the source of it becomes known. Has there been any indication that Moelach is more than what it seems or are the Death Rattles its only trick? And if that really is his only thing, does anyone wanna speculate on how that would harm Team Honor or aid Team Odium?
  22. Unmade Origins Most people probably already know this but Unmade are named after deities of the ancient near east, they also have some linguistic connections to Urdu/Hindi languages: While this might not hold any significance i believe this isn't a mere coincidence, they are ancient godspren. I find this quote particularly interesting, it depicts Unmade as related to human emotions, not people, not parshmen. This connection might suggest that Unmade share their origin with humanity - the devastated world of Ashyn. Just as Stormfather embodies Highstorm or Nightwatcher - Transformation, Unmade would personify forces which shaped the world itself - powerful emotions that defined life on Ashyn. At first, i considered each one to represent particular Vice, like Wrath or Gluttony, but there's much more to them: They are not inherently good or evil, they are both, Vices and Virtues depending on one's perception. Each Unmade embodies the whole spectrum of a particular passion, just like Nergaoul personifies will to fight, some could interpret it as desire to protect, others to conquer. Divine Attributes We all know that each Order has set of Divine Attributes linked with it, apparently, they are somehow connected to the Unmade. I assume every Radiant has innate Virtue/Vice, related to Divine Attributes. A secondary surge of each order is considered dangerous. This is something that is mentioned over and over, Jasnah warns Shallan about Transformation, Nale says roughly the same thing to Szeth about Division, etc. Obviously, it's not relevant to the nature of power itself, because adjacent order gets it as their primary surge. Philosophically virtue is an elusive concept, it demands careful and sustained reflection before it can become part of one's life. Radiants seem to share this view, giving the nature of their Oaths. Pursuing a Virtue blindly and failing to understand it, might turn it into a Vice. Perhaps danger associated with the second surge, is related to twisting an ideal into something bad, possibly exposing Radiant to an Unmade/Odium? Virtue lies in Divine Attribute linked with corresponding Order. For example, Windrunners exhibit will to Protect people and show great capabilities in Leading them. Their attitude/perception makes the concepts of Leading/Protecting easy to grasp and comes naturally to them. Vice, on the other hand, is related to Attributes of adjacent Order. Windrunners or at least Kaladin, struggle with the idea of Justice. Kal view of this ideal is distorted, he takes it personally and allows emotions to cloud his judgment, his attempt at being righteous almost killed Syl. On a side note, Jezrien translates to "the Judge" in urdu, coincidence? While Moash still shows the attitude of a Windrunner through his desire to protect Parshmen, he contorted Just into Vengeful and led him to Odium. Similarly, Szeth stumblings revolve around being blindly obedient and not brave enough to challenge his masters. He mustered the courage to defy Nale and escaped Odium grasp as opposite to the rest of Skybreakers. If my assumptions are correct there is no Unmade related to Pious/Guiding attributes. I hate to poke a hole in Talenel's immaculate image but he remained unbroken simply because there is no Unmade corresponding to his Vice, not his unbreakable will. This gives at least some semblance to Heralds idea that he could handle tortures indefinitely, i assume they would need more substantial argument than just Taln being stubborn and blessed with strong willpower. Keep in mind that this not means being immune to influence of the other Unmade. Another piece giving this reinforcing this theory is particular relation of Thrill, Dalinar and Kaladin. Kaladin might not feel the same Thrill as other men do but still, have similar exultation. Stormlight drives him to action, grants immense focus and endurance, in the same way, as Thrill affects Dalinar. I suspect Windrunners share this characteristic, they receive purified version of the Thrill devoid of bloodlust. While this feeling is empowered by Stormlight/Honor, Kaladin felt this before bonding Sylphrena, thus this seems more like a natural affinity. Conversely, Dalinar is super susceptible to this effect, to him violence is intoxicating and addicting, he revels in conquest. Perhaps this is the reason why Bondsmiths bear no Blades, as a reminder of their Vice. Apparently, this correlation encompasses each pair of Radiant Orders and Heralds, one's Virtue becomes Vice of the other. If proven true, this theory could provide an answer to most persisting questions, the madness of Heralds, a reason for Recreance and Cataclysm of Ashyn. Let me know what you think.
  23. The recent Shardcast discussing the Part 3 Epigraphs (the gemstone recordings) brought some things together in my mind, and prompted an intriguing question. Things we know: After Aharietiam the Fused were confined to Braize and Odium could not provide the Regals with voidlight. However, during an event known as the False Desolation, Ba-Ado-Mishram was able to stand in for Odium and provide voidlight to the singers, enabling them to use the forms of power. Melishi the bondsmith came up with a plan to counter this and organized a strike force of Truthwatchers to capture Ba-Ado-Mishram. (For more about Melishi and the False Desolation, check out this thread or listen to the Shardcast linked above.) Ba-Ado-Mishram has not been active in modern Roshar, and is presumably still trapped. (For more about that, see this thread.) Epigraphs where we learn about all this: So what do we know about trapping Unmade? We saw it happen once in OB, along with some additional hints. While difficult to accomplish, it's only slightly more complicated that "grab the spren and stick it in a gem." You need one of the special "perfect" gemstones like the King's Drop and you need bait. You may or may not also need a bondsmith to lock the Unmade inside. The gemstone recording says "It would require a special prison. And Melishi." I don't know whether Melishi is functioning as bait or as prison warden here, but since his stratagem was "related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths" I am inclined toward the latter. But you definitely need bait. Taravangian describes it to Dalinar this way, in reference to lesser spren: Remembering this, Dalinar decides to make himself the bait for Nergaoul during the battle of Thaylen Field. That is an obvious match since the Blackthorn is the perfect vessel for the Thrill, someone who was gleefully addicted it for decades. In the sub-basement of Urithiru, Shallan learns that a previous Lightweaver served as bait for Re-Shephir. Excerpt of the Re-Shephir confrontation from Ch 30: So Re-Shephir is similar to creationspren, the presumed secondary spren of Lightweavers that are attracted to their artistic abilities. And Shallan is all about creating imitations of things, which makes her extremely compatible with Re-Shephir (note the Unmade's attempt to displace Pattern). So when Shallan opens herself to Re-Shephir, it is too much like the last encounter with a Lightweaver and Re-Shephir flees, fearing imprisonment. Shallan encounters two more Unmade in Kholinar. Sja-Anat just talks to her, but Ashertmarn is attracted to her. The attraction isn't related to her Lightweaver status this time, but rather to her fracturing psyche full of competing desires: This affinity is real, but doesn't seem anywhere close to the oneness that Shallan experiences with Re-Shephir, or that Dalinar has Nergaoul. The odd thing to note is that Melishi's strike team appears to consist entirely of Truthwatchers. This indicates that members of that order may be uniquely suited to act as bait for Ba-Ado-Mishram. So what are the qualities of Truthwatchers, and what can that tell us about the personality/effects of this particular Unmade? (Presumably we could draw conclusions about the Truthwatchers from information about the Unmade, but we know even less about her than we do about the order.) We know that they use Progression and Illumination. They are associated with Pailiah's divine attributes: learned and giving. The in-world Words of Radiance has this to say: They were secretive and... that's about it. If only Ba-Ado-Mishram and not Sja-Anat were the Unmade known as the Taker of Secrets. But no, that can't be it. Honestly I'm pretty stumped at this point. Brandon has repeatedly RAFO'd information about the Truthwatchers, so we don't have any useful WoBs about their resonance, their nahel spren, or the lesser spren associate with their order. The only thing we have is a soft confirmation that they are an order that "is about using knowledge to help people" (questioner's phrasing). There has been a fair amount of speculation in other threads about the Truthwatcher resonance, but nearly all of our data comes from Renarin who, after the reveals of OB, is clearly not representative. He says he "sees," which I believe applies to more than his atypical future sight, but there is not clear textual support for that yet. I'm still pondering this relationship between the Truthwatchers and Ba-Ado-Mishram, and I will be looking for more hints on my reread. My best guess at this point has to do with discerning the essence of things. She served as a general during Desolations, and that ability to perceive would be extremely useful in that context. I look forward to seeing your suggestions and speculation.
  24. So - been reading through stuff about the Unmade while I wait for mates in a pub, and something just struck me. We know that Honor created the Heralds and poured part of his power into them. Based off what we know about how Odium and Honor can enter into pacts regarding the use of champions, what if something similar happened originally. Honor created the Heralds and Odium reacted against this by creating his own set of Heralds. Something changed his mind, or he wasn't happy about putting his power into them and he went back on this, in effect, be Unmade his Heralds. However, as we know, emotions, forces, perception of reality create Spren. What if after being unmade the memory of these Heralds produced them in their current form. Hence them being an abberation and something weird. They weren't originally Spren, but became Spren. Now - please rip this theory to shreds. I haven't had time to look through the WOB to disapprove myself. Is this a conceivable theory?
  25. Could the Unmade be something like Honor's Heralds, but of Odium? And if they could be, wouldn't it be interesting if they were the "Patrons" of the Voidbinding "Orders"? If Ba-Ado-Mishram could grant Voidlight, maybe she was the "Patron" of the Voidbinding equivalent of the Bondsmiths. I would love to hear your opinions on this!