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Found 44 results

  1. Since I’m terrible with forums, forgive me if there’s already something on this. My Trell Suspicions (I’ve also only read Sanderson’s Mistborn world books) So when I was rereading era 1, I was trying to look at all the religions Sazed mentions to see if Trell was there. (Note: Trell as in the guy Miles Hundredlives believes in) Yes, Sazed does mention him. It’s a religion that worships the stars and night. Could it be that Trell is real? He’s written in a lot in era 2. More than any other religion Sazed preached.....
  2. I had a theory. In Mistborn era 1 Sazed talks about a religious group, the Nelazan, who worshipped the stars, a god with a thousand eyes named Trell. Could it be that this religion actually originates from people who moved from Taldain to Scadrial, and the religion of The Sand Lord/Autonomy morphed into this.... And perhaps this exodus was led by Trell the construction foreman and somehow over time his name became associated with their god.
  3. Ok , hey , I'm a new guy . Joined today actually. Hum, please move this to the proper section if I post this into a wrong forum or something. And I confess that it's probably wrong since there are WoBs directly contradicting my theories about the hemalurgic metals. (Can someone send me those if u have them ? ) Still I thought it made an interesting theory .So here's my theory : So I was looking through the wiki and found that the 4 blessings were listed as hemalurgic iron , tin , zinc and copper. But I disagree. the mistwraiths were created from full feruchemists , so I think they needed a part of a feruchemist's spiritweb to work on a Kandra. So I think the reason there were so few Kandra in each generation was because u needed hemalurgic spikes made by killing feruchemists. Therefore the four blessings would be : A). The blessing of strength was H-Pewter, which steals feruchemical physical powers. B). The blessing of awareness was H-Brass, which steals feruchemical cognitive powers . C). The blessing of presence was H-gold , which steals feruchemical hybrid powers D). The blessing of stability was H-aluminium , which steals all powers. Points in favor of my theory : 1). Hemalurgic copper , iron , zinc and tin steal human charecteristics. Normal humans. Not metalborn. Tlr didn't really care much about skaa and used them to make spikes indiscriminately for creating koloss. Why then limit the number of Kandra per generation to a hundred ? More Kandra meant more loyal subjects and spies and better atium Management and conservation. 2). Feruchemists on the other hand were rare , rarer than allomancers. Hence it would make sense why so few spikes were available to the kandra. 3).If the Kandra were rebellious , wouldn't they just steal spikes from like the treasury or from the koloss or by killing or mercykilling humans ,( I mean hey there were lots of impoverished or crippled skaa who would have been almost dead due to starvation , the mistsnapping , war , gang violence or tlr's general tyranny , who could euthanized as an act of Mercy during era 1 . And even during era 2 ) and make more Kandra ? I mean , that seems like a serious lapse in security by tlr. 4). Why are Kandra with the blessing of stability so rare ? I mean , zinc spikes should be as common as iron. Wouldn't it make more sense if this blessing was due to aluminum , a rare metal which might have been experimentally used a few times and then abandoned , due to lack of the resource. 5). I think , that aluminum is perhaps the most stable and inert of all the metals. Something that is immune to all ( ?? ) forms of investiture. Wouldn't it make sense that this would grant the blessing of stability which supposedly makes a Kandra less susceptible to external control. 6). Marasi notes that Ru Luur's spike was probably pewter. 7). In many ways it seems Kandra are superior to humans . They are usually peaceful , great at defense , functionally immortal , can change morphology to suit thier professions ( Spoiler for WoR ) Indeed , if it weren't for the mind control. ( spoiler for oathbringer ) It seems callous of Rashek to ignore this possiblity. With allomancy becoming weaker with every generation , knowledge of mind control and duralumin being suppressed and tlr himself running out of both sanity and his atium compounding efficiency , it might have been possible for Kandra to rise in rebellion. Even assassinate tlr and the Inquisitors themselves. Especially , if Paalm revealed how easy it was to infiltrate the ranks of the Inquisitors. Marsh did the same thing too remember. Several of the younger generations clamored for change and the kandra themselves hated being sequestered in some dank caves. Points against my theory : 1). Perhaps tlr was afraid of Kandra overrunning humans . Or didn't wanna overcrowd them in the pits and hence limited the number of new ones per generation . 2). Even if the Kandra were rebellious , it should have been easy for tlr , the Inquisitors , mistborn or soother mobs to get them under control. But then again , perhaps they might have removed one spike in order to remain immune to mind control , but it would have been harrowing for the kandra. 3). There seems to be WoBs stating that it was the normal power stealing H-spikes , ie, zinc ,tin,etc ,that were the blessings. This is , if true ,actually the most damning piece of evidence against my theory. 4). Then there's the possibility that the kandra were never a security risk. I mean even 3 centuries after the catacendre , most Kandra are peaceful and Van Dell just simply hates violence. It seems only the third generation and a few like MeLaan are the exceptions. They might actually hate themselves for being hemalurgic creations, but still if all one needs is a iron spike , then couldn't they mercykill some humans and create young ones or scrounge some from s dead or dying koloss ? Potential possiblities if my theory is true : 1). Sazed is afraid of the kandra. Hence he has had the mistwraiths eradicated , resusticated into humans or atleast removed from thier sentient brethren. Whether the kandra like this or not is impossible to foresee. 2). On one hand , the kandra seem to be peaceful creatures who willingly choose suicide even tho they are immortal. 3). On the other hand , the kandra have had centuries of practice acting and hiding thier true feelings. Then there was the dream / religious prophecy Ten Soon told Vin about Kandra ruling Scadrial once all the humans were dead. Paalm's anger at Sazed might have been atleast partially due to Sazed's oppression of the kandra. In some ways , Sazed's treatment of the kandra is worse than tlr's. 4). Perhaps some Kandra are truly loyal to Sazed , but as we saw in HoA , not all Kandra have the same view. So perhaps it's possible that some factions among the kandra including the world Hoppers?? are planning to oust him and gain control of Scadrial. Perhaps that's how Paalm first came in contact with Trell . Perhaps the ' faceless immortals ' Trell has , according to Edwarn ladrian are actually Kandra world Hoppers who defected to Trell or odium or whoever else , in order to gain greater autonomy for the kandra . 5). Finally we see Paalm using metalborn abilities and a statement saying that she had infiltrated Inquisitors. I really doubt you can infiltrate the ministry of Inquisition without displaying metalborn abilities. So is Sazed lying ? Tlr had reason to contain such knowledge from the kandra but does Sazed have similar reasons ? Also perhaps the spike which grants metalborn abilities might be aluminium . I mean if H-aluminum steals all powers then could it be possible that as a blessing it could grant all powers or well one power each. Perhaps this is also the reason the kandra themselves are oblivious of this knowledge since aluminum is super rare and aluminum spikes even more so. Yep , no proof for this. Just tinfoil. And Wax's observation of Paalm's spike seems to refute this reasoning. But then again Wax was like totally depressed at the time and wasn't able to run tests on it and the kandra removed it soon enough. Maybe Paalm just mixed in something else in the spike to change it's colouring , in order to fool ppl.
  4. I recently reread the Way of Kings after finishing my Mistborn reread and in Mistborn there is a chapter where Sazed is describing Trelagism where "They saw the stars as the Thousand Eyes of Trell watching them. The sun was the single, jealous eye of Trell’s brother, Nalt." The Interlude at the Purelake in the Way of Kings caught my attention when they described their god as "Nu Ralik was their god, but you always pretended that he wasn’t. Vun Makak—his younger, spiteful brother—had to be tricked into thinking you worshiped him, otherwise he’d get jealous." I also kinda remember a story where one moon was jealous of the others but I don't remember what book that was in. I just can't help but feel that these are all connected. (I do believe in the Autonomy=Trell theory)
  5. Are trellism and the purelaker religion the same concept, changed because of the differences in time and space?There are some parallels between the religions such as the two brothers, and pretending to worship one, when they are really worshipping the other.
  6. Is Trell a piece of Adonalsium? Or is he a splinter of one of the gods that Odium has killed? I am really confused about this. Oh and is the person in Whitesand related named Trell. Trell is the being who is fighting Harmony currently if you aren't familiar with who he is. The fact that Miles worships him and that he has Faceless Immortals means he has some power right?
  7. The newspaper illustrations of the Mistborn Era 2 books are full of easter eggs and yet don't seem to get discussed much. As I was flipping through Shadows of Self again, I stumbled over this one that I didn't pay proper attention to before: (Be sure to click at the "Full Size" button at the bottom left to make it readable.) Specifically, I mean the article about "VISITORS from other WORLDS". It mentions a blue pool south of the Southern Roughs and an inhuman creature "by the pool". The implications seem to be obvious: The pool is a perpendicularity and the creature is some kind of worldhopper. This could mean it's Harmony's perpendicularity - or one of them. Brandon has been close-lipped about whether Harmony has one or two of them. However, blue being the perpendicularity's color irritates me. The colors of the previous perpendicularities on Scadrial were black and white, and while Harmony would be able to change the color, I don't see any reason for him to do. Blue wouldn't mean anything to him, would it? The logical conclusion is this perpendicularity being one of another Shard, as in Trell. It is very likely that Trell is an avatar of a Shard (and it's very likely that it's Autonomy), and avatars seem to be able to manifest perpendicularities (as happened on First of the Sun), so it doesn't seem unlikely that Trell's interaction with Scadrial has also lead to one manifesting - it has, after all, lead to another god metal. It's not clear what the creature mentioned in the text might be. But - while all kinds of characters could move through it no matter its origin - it seems likely that it's associated with Trell: After all, the perpendicularity seems to be in the south, and the south seems to be a very good place to hide things on Scadrial (it took them hundreds of years to even discover the Southern continent), so it might be a safe place to move his agents through (like the red-eyed visitor in Bands of Mourning's epilogue - they had to get to Scadrial somehow, and without Harmony noticing, ideally). As for the meaning of the color blue in this context, in Trelagism, Trell is associated with the night sky, which, being blue, could be an explanation for the symbolism behind blue as Trell's color. Anything else I missed? Let me know. Also, if you find other interesting things in the Mistborn Era 2 newspaper sheets, I might repurpose this thread to an "Era 2 newpaper discussion".
  8. Hi, all! I’ve been thinking lately about Feruchemy, and its place in the cosmere canon. A few things have been nagging at me, and so I searched the forums here to see what anyone else has been talking about in regards to this issue. Not finding anything, I figured I’d best get this conversation started. It has always bothered me that Feruchemy was considered a system of both Preservation and Ruin. Particularly now that we know a third entity has been influencing the system. It makes sense to me, then, that Feruchemy might be based in the investiture of this third party. Now presuming Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, our first piece of evidence should be in the very way Feruchemy functions; A Feruchemist draws their power from themselves. If nothing else, I feel this alone makes a reasonably convincing argument. Ummm... I had other points, I think. Sorry, I just finished work. My brain died a little.
  9. Okay, I mentioned this on the Discord the other day, and just on the one-in-a-billion chance I might be onto something here, I just wanna go on record with this. Is it even conceivable that the being that we know as Trell might be some insane splinter or avatar of Honor? Literally the only piece of evidence I have for this, if it even qualifies as evidence, is the name ‘Trell’. The only other place I have ever in my life heard that name before the Cosmere was minor yet narratively significant character of the same name in the Thomas Covenant series. In that series, and keeping spoilers to a minimum, Trell violates a sacred oath he made to do no harm and ends up going insane and psychotic as a result. Now I know that Brandon at the very least knows about this series, since he’s mentioned it, so for all I know he very well could have gotten the name from there, but I find it vanishingly unlikely that he’d go further and actually emulate the character, but not impossible I suppose. And if he is, the closest direct parallel in the Cosmere would probably be a splinter of Honor who went insane by violating an oath in some sense. Or maybe of some other Shard who a similar thing happened to. Is this even a remote possibility at this point based on what we know? Or do we know for a fact that this parallel, if it even is one, is just the name? Like I said, I think this is very unlikely.
  10. I have been re-reading Alloy of Law over my holiday break. When I came across a specific quote that made me pause and formulate an interesting theory about Trell. Due to spoilers the rest of this post will be in a spoiler box. Read at your own discretion. Particularly if you haven't read Secret History.
  11. In the old, pre-Lord Ruler religion centered on him he was supposed to be the god of night, right? And his showy brother was god of the day. But his followers loved his humble ways more than those of his brash brother. Trell works quitely. Whereas Ruin and Preservation had a full-blown war in full view of everyone, Trell moves quietly in the background. His (ostensible) followers in The Set do too. It may be that in Warbreaker the god Austre is actually Trell. Austre seems to have very little connection to Endowment, and Austre teaches his followers to share Trell's quiet, self-effacing ways. So Trell is the shard Modesty (that is, opposite of ostentatiousness). Do you agree?
  12. Trell has been a character of interest in the Cosmere ever since the Alloy of Law book. There are tons of crazy theories on Trell and Trelagism, so I thought I'd share some of mine. Trelagism reminds me a LOT of the Shardworld Taldain. One one side it's constantly daytime - Dayside - and on the other it's constantly night - Darkside. In the religion Trelagism, worshipped by the Nelazan on Scadrial, they thought that night was sacred, as they could see the Thousand Eyes of Trell, which were the stars. This could be a reference to Darkside, and it's entirely possible some Darksiders travelled to Scadrial and spread their beliefs. White Sand takes place waaay before Mistborn. Trell, supposedly an Avatar of Autonomy, could have gone to Scadrial himself. In Trelagism, Trell was the stars and Nalt was the sun. This isn't something crazy, but I connected Nalt to Nalthis for some reason. Is this a coincidence or am I connecting two random things for no reason.
  13. For those who haven't read volume two yet (what are you doing?), A regular dude named Trell shows up for one page, and is never seen again. I nearly fell off my chair when that happened. Any ideas of what this could mean?
  14. With the knowledge that a mystery Shard has "hacked into" Scadrial's magic system and manifest its Investiture as a new godmetal, trellium. I wonder how far this extends. Could there potentially be trellium Mistings or Ferrings born in the future? We know that Preservation altered Allomancy to allow atium Mistings to be born, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But this may be something unique to Preservation, as Allomancy was his magic system to begin with. It's possible that "Trell" has interfered with the Metallic Arts enough to add a new godmetal, but not enough so that people are actually born with the "sDNA" to use it for Allomancy or Feruchemy. Any thoughts on this, one way or the other?
  15. I think the religion of the Purelake referenced in WoK Ishikk interlude is related to Autonomy because it has certain similarities to Trelagism on Scadrial. Both religions have jealous siblings that have to be avoided by followers when trying to worship their chosen god. The Trelagists have to worship Trell at night because the jealous brother is blocking the stars during the day. In the Purelake they can only worship in grottos, perhaps because they are underground and suffiiciently out of view of the stars/sun? I am thinking Autonomy's avatars don't always get along and compete for worshipers and attention.
  16. DISCLAIMER: While I don't think this argument is definitive by any means, I do think the case for "Trell-as-Cultivation" is just as strong as "Trell-as-Autonomy," perhaps stronger. It sounds nutty, but honestly I think that's because people here are assuming we know a lot more about Autonomy than we actually do. I'll explain: I'm going to start with what I think is the strongest point in favor of Trell being Cultivation: the weird Hemalurgic properties of the godmetal trellium. This may seem like digression, but I promise you this is going somewhere. Trellium acts like no metal we've ever seen. From the Coppermind: That's pretty strange, isn't it? Trellium is the only metal we know of that affects kandra like that. I know there are technically the human quality-stealing metals that grant the Blessings, but this is clearly a blessing of a totally different variety. Trellium seems to work a lot like atium, in that it can steal any Allomantic/Feruchemical ability, but it only seems to do that with kandra. But what about the chimeras from Shadows of Self? Again, from the Coppermind: Another trellium anomaly! Again, we see this godmetal acting weird. What other Hemalurgic construct even approaches this level of sheer inhumanity? All the other constructs we know of are warped from the human baseline, yes, but they remain human or humanoid in some way. Steel Inquisitors are basically artificial Mistborn. Koloss are extremely buff, extremely dumb humans with a skin condition. The kandra aren't human, but Hemalurgy turns them from mindless blobs of mush into sentient beings, so you could argue that the Blessings increase their "human-ness." But with chimeras, one trellium spike gives them some unknown quality, while warping their bodies and minds into something animalistic. Almost like koloss. Only instead of being given a human quality like strength, they were given an animal quality that twisted them into wild beasts. But how to we square this with the other Hemalurgic property of trellium, giving Metallic Arts abilities to kandra? Simple: THEORY: Hemalurgic trellium is a "universal spike" like atium, but with restrictions. It can transfer any strait or ability, but only between humans and non-humans. Meaning that a trellium spike only transfers qualities if either the spike's victim or recipient is not human. They work human-to-nonhuman, or nonhuman-to-human. This is the only way I can think of to square the two abilities of trellium that we know of. (As an aside, it also ties into a theory I'm working on about Hemalurgic godmetals, but I don't even know if I still take my own side on that one yet.) Now, if we assume that my theory on trellium is correct, we have an interesting corollary on this godmetal: its powers within the Metallic Arts, from what we've seen, appear to be deeply tied to interactions between humans, the natural world, and the interplay between them. The connection between trellium's properties and the Intent of Cultivation seems pretty clear to me. We also know from the text that Trell's agents appear to be deeply concerned with order, micromanaging affairs, and long-term planning. All of this fits very well with Cultivation's Intent. Given that we also know that a Shard's Intent affects how well they can predict the future, and that Cultivation is reportedly very, very good at predicting the future, we have a Shard interfering on Scadrial who shares a suspiciously similar MO with Cultivation. MY THEORY: Cultivation is attempting to partially invest herself on Scadrial as a backup plan in case greater Roshar falls to Odium. It's probably safe to assume at this point that Odium's hatred of Cultivation has gotten personal, and Cultivation knows that if things go wrong, she's going to be the next Shard he comes after. So she's investing herself on Scadrial, using it as a "Shardic lifeboat" of sorts to ensure that she can't be trapped on Roshar/Ashyn and Splintered like Tanavast. This growing influence manifests itself as the new godmetal "trellium," whose known Hemalurgic properties seem to fit thematically with her Intent. The only real counter-argument I can think of is that Cultivation seems pretty pre-occupied on Roshar, what with the Last Desolation and all. But is that really an argument, or is it just an assumption based on what little we've seen so far? Odium is trapped by the Oathpact, not Cultivation. She may be heavily invested, but as Autonomy shows being invested on a world is no barrier to sowing Investiture other places like a Shardic Johnny Appleseed. Is this a stretch? Maybe. Am I missing something? Quite possibly, yes. But I still think this Trell-as-Cultivation theory is worth considering, if for no other reason than that it helps us look at the question with new eyes.
  17. So I recently finished my first read through of the White Sand rough draft, and I think it may be one of my favorites. Despite it being a rough draft, it still possesses the same spark of genius that fills all of Sanderson's books. Although I think the book is wonderful, there are a few questions that I want to ask your guy's opinion on. During my read through, I first noticed a brief role played by a petty thief named Reen, though I quickly dismissed this as a coincidence, as White Sand was written before Mistborn and it would just make no sense. But later, I noticed that Kelton had a brief interaction with a worker named Trell. One could pull all sorts of things from this. Could this be the Trell? If so, what is he doing here? Could he be the Sand Lord that a certain Elorin claimed to have met? Or could this just be a coincidence stuck inside the rough draft of an unpublished book? One could go on for a while on this train of thought. So I just want to ask your guy's opinions, what do you think about the situation?
  18. I was doing a bit of digging on trell and I looked for name meanings. I found one website that states the meaning of Trell as someone who likes to do do things their own way without anyone else's interference. Sounds like Autonomy?
  19. So at the end of the bands of mourning before the hijacked "homeless person" kill Suit with a ettmetal bomb. (which seems odd since he was stating at the time that dynamite would be just as powerful so is there a reason they choose ettmetal that i could puzzle out besides maybe making it look like it was done by southern scadrians) Before which he says maybe you can serve us in another realm, so is cross world reincarnation possibly whats "beyond"
  20. Era 2 corresponds to, what, the early 1900s? And Era 3 is supposed to be something like the '80s. Is the gap between Era 2 and Era 3 going to be roughly similar to Earth? Because if it's not going to be that long between them, well, E3 is supposed to have a Mistborn serial killer, right? Possibly the first Mistborn since Spook? And the women who were kidnapped by the Vanishers, Wax thinks they're being used to breed Mistborn? And they still haven't been rescued. They might never be rescued, for all we know. So say you've got a Mistborn who comes from a cultists' secret eugenics project. Wouldn't that leave the kid a little unstable? Maybe eventually murdery? Or, might what seems like a string of motiveless murders turn out to be part of some sort of Trellist Evil Plan?
  21. Autonomy is a popular theory for the identity of Trell, and I really like it. There is just one thing: how could Autonomy go to Scadrial? She is invested in the Taldain system as far as I know. So she shouldnt really be able to go anywhere.
  22. Has anyone one else seen the mathematical theme in the names of the Set? Set: a well-defined collection of distinct objects, considered as an object in its own right. For example, the numbers 2, 4, and 6 are distinct objects when considered separately, but when they are considered collectively they form a single set Array: An arrangement of a series of terms in some geometric pattern, as in a matrix. (Think a multiplication table) Suit: Generally another name for a set. Think of the suits in a deck of cards. Sequence: An enumerated collection of objects in which repetitions are allowed. Like a set, it contains members (also called elements, or terms). Dictionany.com and Wikipedia. This nearly makes me wonder if Trell is a Shard that already embodied the concept of Harmony, Balance, or order and is threatened with another one on the scene. CRAZY THOUGHT: Sazed has multiple personalities one is Harmony and another it is Trell. I'll need to think about that one.
  23. Hi! Kell here. I'm obviously running out of ideas… Finally reading the Alloy of Law again will definitely help. I'd normally do some weird Feruchemic theory right now but I don't feel like it. Maybe in five minutes. Anyways, forgive my ignorance but when Adonalsium reigned supreme, were there any other gods? Take Trell for example. Did he exist, or were there others? Did Raidri-- oh nevermind. Ausar and his bro Galath probably did tho Ising the I of being STORMING CURIOUS! Seeya!!
  24. Hi folks, First post here, but I've been lurking for a while before creating my account. Background data: Trell is on Scadrial mucking things up. Odium has issues with Harmony. Autonomy has issues with religion and people having free will. Many believe Autonomy and Odium to be working together. Odium currently trapper in Greater Roshar. Autonomy is free to move abut and believed to have left Taldain, by Mistborn Era 2. Trell minions on Scadrial have glowing red eyes. At least 1 Kandra and another being type were controlled with hemalurgic spikes of a black and red marled metal. Voidbringers have red eyes and are of Odium. Parshmen/Parshendi have black and red marbled skin and are believed to be of Odium. Overall Theory: Trell is Autonomy (described by others and I agree), Odium is helping Autonomy as a way to muck around with Harmony while Odium is still stuck. Proposal: Odium helping Autonomy by providing the Void Metal or Odium metal spikes to enable her hemalurgic constructs/minions. That's why they have similar color to Parshmen, and the beings using them have red eyes like void bringers. Autonomy gets to use the spikes to muck around on Scadrial while having some "CYA" / "wasn't me" ability, and posibly use something she can't do herself. While Odium gets ways to attack/weaken/destroy Harmony without leaving Roshar. That's my idea. So what do you think and what are my theory holes?
  25. So I was recently skimming through the shard and was thinking about Trell and Senna. We know that preservation had failed someone and i propose that that person was Senna or as we know her, Trell. I think that when Laras was about to become a shard Senna told him that he had to contain Ruin. She made him promise this. After he had become Preservation she became Justice and decided to hold him to his promise. After the siege of Luthadel happened he had failed her by letting all these people get killed by Ruin. She was really angry and flew towards Scadrial. This is the red haze we now know as Trell. She wants to enact justice on Preservation. P.S. I know that he should have called her by her shards name but maybe he never saw her when she wasn't Senna? What do you think?