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Found 60 results

  1. We know from Wax’s experimenting that Trell’s spike emitted the entire spectrum of colors, with a large spike of emission in the red zone. Wax also mentions Harmonium doing a similar thing but doesn’t say what color the spike was. Any theories as to what color Harmony would be? Also does this color tie in to the color associated with the shard itself? Like is Trell’s glowing red because that color is associated with Autonomy or because she is using corrupted investiture? I remember stormlight and lifelight also having associated colors so it would be nice to think each shard has a color they identify with.
  2. Hey all - I was doing a re-read of Mistborn 1 and came across a passage that I found particularly interesting given Brandon's specific choice of word. I am not sure if this has been brought up before, I couldn't find any note of it in the tags despite the many different topics and discussions of Trell. So wanted to bring the communities attention to this. I am unsure whether this is a purely co-incidental word choice by Brandon, but as we know of our favourite author, very little of what he writes is accidental, which makes me think given our knowledge of new shards, perhaps the truth has been staring us in the face since the first time we heard about Trell. Here is the passage: 'It listed the tenets of the Nelazan people, who had worshipped the god Trell. Sazed had always been partial to this religion because of it's focus on learning and the study of mathematics and the heavens...True, the Nelazan had known a great deal about astronomy, but their teachings of the afterlife were sketchy - almost whimsical. Their doctrine was purposefully vague, they'd taught, allowing all men to discover truth for themselves...What good was a religion without answers? Why believe in something if the response to half it's questions was "Ask Trell, and he will answer?"'. Page 410, Chapter 46 - Hero of Ages. A few points on this: 1. The specific choice of the word whimsical to describe the religion of Trell now takes on a potentially insightful new meaning given that Whimsy is now a confirmed Shard. 2. Brandon specifically notes that the Nelazan had known a great deal about maths and astronomy - if I was to chose two words that would indicate to me that a group of people were Cosmere aware, without being obvious, those two words would be high on my list. They had a religion with it's focus as the study of science and the universe - which sounds very much like a basis understanding of how the Cosmere works. 3. The core worship structure of not having answers to questions, but just a believe that Trell will answer - as opposed to religions that already lay out all the answers upfront in a creed, suggests that they are confident that their god exists, lives, and importantly 'can answer'. While at the same time coming into line with the core concept of Whimsy - 'a sudden wish or idea that cannot be reasonable explained'. They didn't need answers, as they didn't know what all the questions were. They just had faith that their God would answer. 4. Given Trell's involvement in Mistborn 1.5, we can safely say that the Nelazan were onto something with their religion - that it had a grounding in truth. If we draw this all together, then Brandon's use of the word whimsical, in conjunction with describing the Nelazan as seemingly cosmere aware, and the concepts of their faith matching into what could be considered Whimsy. We might have a good argument to state that Trell is of Whimsy. Also - wouldn't it be fun for Trell to be connected to a Shard we know very little about as a way to introduce potentially a new major player into the cosmere game. A trickster Shard inserting himself in small religions across the Cosmere under the noses of other Shards, not bound tightly to one planetary system but working through avatars everywhere. Would love it if anyone gets the chance to ask Brandon if his choice of word in Hero of Ages was important. Also - as always, would love for the community to rip this to pieces and show me some tasty WoB's that disprove me that Trell is linked to Whimsy. Stay positive and negative!
  3. I was just reading through White Sand and I came across something interesting For obvious reasons, I find this very interesting. There is a theory i have seen in these forums multiple times about a connection between Autonomy the Shard present on Taldain (the planet where White Sand is set) and Trell, a mysterious, powerful being in Mistborn Era 2 with a corresponding metal (Trellium). This seems like too much of a coincidence, but i have no idea what this means.
  4. So I have a theory. The Malwish have so far in chapter 9, been changing to be more unified and more aggressive to the Northeners, mostly from Wax's POV but I digress, I wonder if these rather rapid political decisions might be because of another group like the Set, just set (heh) up in the Southern Continent by Trell. After all Trell wouldn't be hindered by measly distance and would definitely want a way to influence the Malwish. And sure it might just be natural tensions rising, but I think that just as the Basin's politics are being influenced by the Set to go to war, so too are the Malwish. What do you think?
  5. discuss

    The linchpin for this idea came from a question that came to mind while viewing other threads, though I will admit that it's based on supposition and unconfirmed ideas. I'm not asking if Paalm was influenced or corrupted by Trell, that much is obvious, I'm wondering if the control was to the extent to make her a slave as Marsh was. Ruin could corrupt and alter a person with even a small degraded Hemalurgic spike, as seen with Lord Penrod who eventually drove Luthadel to collapse. However, it seems that Harmony required 2 Spikes in Bleeder to take control of a Kandra. Three spikes was the limit that the Set determined would let them avoid influence from Harmony. I'm not sure why there is this great of a disparity. The question is this: how much control would Ruin have had over someone with a freshly charged Atium spike in them? It would make sense to me that Ruin would have much, much deeper control with his own essence piercing the soul of his slave. The follow up question is if a single spike of Trellium would have given Trell sufficient power over Paalm, particularly if Trell could make Paalm think that there wasn't anything wrong? This would be in the same way that Ruin could make Marsh think death and ash was beautiful, even while part of him was horrified at what he was doing. A few things that have made me wonder this is that in BoM, we get transcripts of VenDell's interview with ReLuur while ReLuur was missing a spike. Compare ReLuur's behavior, language, and mannerisms to the level of control Paalm has when mimicking Governor Innate or taking up the persona of Lessie. Basically I think there's no way ReLuur could have held it together to do a fraction of what Paalm did. So why does Paalm have such control, creating and executing an intricate and convoluted plan that almost works without a hitch, tricking a city, Wax, and the Kandra? Why didn't she have a major personality mood swing when Wax shot her with his earring, making a mismatched Blessing that apparently was incredibly unpleasant when ReLuur was given one of TenSoon's spikes? What happened with Paalm is not consistent with what we see later without a Trellium spike. Basically, I think that there was a lot of control and planning involved with Paalm, it just wasn't her own. There's obfuscation in that Edwarn Ladrian says that the Set are merely riding the storm of Bleeder's campaign, but we now know that the Set follow Trell, and that spike was from Trell (or at least Brandon lets us call it Trellium. Which brings me to my idea that Paalm was being controlled all along to do things that had she been sane might have agreed in a specific context, so even as a slave perhaps she never considered or even had the control to kill herself as she did at the end of SoS. I suspect she died there because Trell didn't want to reveal their hand more than had already been done. As a final note, at the end of BoM, Harmony says that Paalm would have remained "a slave in her mind" had Wax not killed her. Thoughts?
  6. Do we have confirmation that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy? Do we have confirmation where the extra bit of Ruin that Harmony is? What if Trell is that extra bit of Ruin that has been taken up by someone, or is being used in a way to cause issues? It could make sense within the story that there isn't outside shardic influences on Scadrial yet.
  7. Ok, I have no proof of this hypothesis. But seeing the fact that Axindweth is from Terris (Scadrial), and she is the one who brings the voidspren to Roshar from Braize, it makes me think that she is a member of the Set, or that she is someone important in Trell's plans. We know that Odium and Autonomy have a "pact", being possible allies, so it would not be strange that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, who feels admiration for Odium (like Patji in Oathbringer's letter) and seeks the return of the Desolations to favor Odium. It is not a well-crafted hypothesis, but it is what I think it might be. And furthermore, I also think that the Set itself is a reaction to the Ghostbloods, being rival organizations, like the Ghostbloods and Sons of Honor. What do you think?
  8. First time posting, so sorry if this is the wrong thread. Some spoilers for Misborn Era 2, RoW, and other cosmere books. Crackpot theories developed around 2 am ahead, so please take with a grain of salt and give honest feedback. In Mistborn Era 2, we are given some information of Trell, the strange entity that is corrupting kandra and being worshiped by the Set. Debates with friends have led us to a few theories, and I was hoping for community feedback on them. Sanderson confirmed in book signing that Trell was a shard we already knew. At the time of the signing, only 9 Shards were known: Devotion, Dominion, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Autonomy, Endowment, Preservation, Ruin. We saw many people on here with the theory that Autonomy would be Trell, or that Trell would be an avatar of Autonomy. This doesnt feel like their motivation or Intent. Trell seems to be about control of the planet, or sphere as the kandra phrased it. Autonomy does not feel like one to actively control or rule a planet. If they did, why would Taldain not be the first taken over? Ba-Ado-Mishram was a name that came to mind early in the talks. Her manipulation during the False Desolation sparked the idea that she could be manipulating the kandra. Her ability to give huge amounts of Investiture to the Singers along with her tricky nature was what led to that idea. However, despite her being missing from a long time on Roshar, we found no connection that would lead to her being on Scadrial. The next idea was another popular one, Odium. Due to a timeline confirmed in another signing, Era 2 takes place in the time skip between Stormlight 5 and 6. In RoW, Taravangians deal with Dalinar would allow the Odium shard to finally leave, if Dalinar can not win the challenge in Stormlight 5. The sneakier manipulation of the planet feels far more akin to the planning shown by Taravangian, rather than the violence Rayse used. Again however, control does not appear to be part of the Odium Intent. Perhaps it was just Rayse himself, but Odium never seemed conserned about the people, just the Shards on the worlds. If he cared to rule or destroy them, Sel and Threnody would be ruled or extinct. The final thought that was brought up was a strange one. The Dor, the mash up of Devotion and Dominion, left broken by Odium. Trells desire to be worshiped and control a planet seems to fit both Intents of the shards. Sanderson talks about the Dor gaining emotions in a Q&A from 2015, along with the Arcanum Unbound mentioning that the Sel landscape, effected by the Dor, seems to becoming self aware. This would also be oddly connected to the Kelsier memory seen at the end of Mistborn 6, as Kelsier is aware of the Ire past attention on Scadrial. The Ire are a group of Sel based world hoppers, seen in Mistborn: Secret History, where they had goals of stealing Preservations Investiture. A strange connection of Sel and Scadrial. All of these were simply ideas thrown around by a grouo of friends. We are looking for more community ideas. Hopefully this thread can become a Trell theory board. We think Sanderson has given enough hints or clues to prove who it is, if we look carefully enough.
  9. Ok so this will have spoilers all the way up to (you guessed it) Shadows of Self and secret history So I'm reading mistborn for the second time and HoA this exchange happens between sazed and the first gen kandra: “Preservation’s power remains, for power cannot be destroyed. His mind however, was all but destroyed-for this was the sacrifice he made to imprison Ruin.” “The sliver remains,” another reminded. “The shadow of self.” I found a post from like 6 years ago discussing it but nobody touched on one point I thought about (sorry if this is the wrong place for this I'm new here ><) So it seems to me in the context of HoA the "Shadow of self" refers to what was left of Leris after he created ruins prison. Slowly fading eventually leaving the power up for grabs. Reading Shadows of Self the first time I figured the title more leaned towards being about Wax as in this book we learn the bulk of his past (or at least the key moments like his childhood with his uncle, meeting Lessi etc) and where his identiy is in question. But what I wonder this time around is that maybe it's a hint about Trell too. Trell atm is not confirmed to be a shard however it must be shard like at least. This book is where we get confirmation that Trell is actually real. It has it's own form of hemalurgy, a more refined version maybe given what Lessi/Paalm was able to do with it which implies investiture in some capacity in my eyes. Trell must be something big being an object of worship pre-dating the lord ruler and being able to control/influence others. Even Miles was a follower and seem to have been influenced in some way by it? Anyways where I'm going with this is what if something similar is happening to Trell where only a sliver remains of them and they are trying to act with whatever time they have left. At the very least they have a plot in motion and if my previous thought is true they have a power that cannot be destroyed. Whether Trell is a shard or not that could have interesting implications in the cosmere especially if Trell isn't a shard. What do you guys think though? I'm mostly just eagerly awaiting The Lost Metal to come out so my brain is spinning trying to figure out whats gonna happen.
  10. STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE SPOILERS so we know that era two is a few years ahead of the current stormlight archive timeline, so I’m thinking, dalinar loses the contest of champions and odium turns him into this spacefaring warlord who will conquer stuff for odium,so what if odium has sent dalinar to scadrial to conquer it , kill harmony etc and also we see that red mist sazed shows wax, and I’m thinking it looks eerily similar to the red mist seen in the thrill in oathbringer (I think it’s oathbringer at least) which is odiums investiture so what if dalinar is trell?(this is extremely far fetched Ik)
  11. So, Mistborn era two takes place just after Stormlight 5. I've been thinking that Trell's incursion on Scadrial could have something to do with the events of Stormlight 5, possibly rell is forced out of their shard planet by odium, or is odium. Maybe Honor and Odium are combined to make trell, or Dalinar, being made to lead the voidbringers, goes by trell. I would love to hear your Trell based theories, and any information that could debunk my own.
  12. Hello! After reading Rhythm of War and thinking about the Cosmere as a whole, I came up with a crazy theory that had shocked me to the core, and I can't find anything that disproves this theory, so I want to share it here and get other's opinions of this. My theory has to do with Trell, who we learn the existance of in Mistborn Era 2, and connecting it with Stormlight Archive. First, my theory is based on two assumptions: 1) That Mistborn Era 2 takes place after the first 5 books of the Stormlight Archive. I saw a fan made image on Instagram a while ago that showed this was the case. Has new information changed this? I haven't seen any updated timelines for the books. 2) That Dalian will loose in the upcoming battle against Odium and become a pawn of Todium (Taravangian with Odium's power). My theory is that Trell is Dalinar working on behalf of Todium. Pg 1193 of RoW "So Taravangian knew the cosmere was in chaos. Ruled by fools. Presides over by broken gods." We see that Todium looks out into the Cosmere and sees all the corrupt leaders and the other shards/gods and sees that it needs to be made right. Later on that page he says "and now, Taravangian was going to save them all." Todium clearly has plans not only for Roshar, but for all of the cosmere to make things "right". It sounds like he's going along the lines of Odium's original plan of being the only god and possibly bringing peace and security to the cosmere. Pg 385 of Shadows of Self "The governor was planning to speak to the people of the city. Bleeder hadn't succeeded in killing him yet, and Wax suspected he knew why. Because when she murdered him, she wanted an audience." Here we see Bleeder, who is being used by Trell, trying to take out a major political leader on Scadrial. Clearly Trell wants the "corrupt" leaders killed in front of the public to try and win over the hearts and minds of the people to them. If Bleeder had succeeded there is likely more to Trell's plan to put a better leader in place. Perhaps even someone who is a minion of Trell who would bring the right sort of leadership to a major area of Scadrial. Pg 435 of Shadows of Self (there are a few lines here I'm not going to quote them all) but it confirms that the metal is not one that Harmony knows. So it is a metal from another world, from another god. Let's call this metal Taravangium. (Not Trellium, though it was Trell, aka Dalinar, who delivered this metal to Scadrial on behalf of Todium.) (formerly this metal was Raysium) We also know (I don't have a quote for this) that shards can sense the presence of other shards. If Odium was free of Roshar and working in the Scadrial system as Trell, Harmony would know. But, we do know that powerful humans (and other beings) can operate on a planet without the shard noticing. Pg 535 of RoW in the text at the start of the chapter (which we can assume is a letter from Harmony to Hoid) "Regardless, please make yourself known to me when you travel my lands. It is distressing that you think you need to move in the shadows". Dalinar, going by the name of Trell, powered by Odium, could come to Scadrial and work to recruit members to Todium's cause, and Harmony would not be able to detect him as long as he kept hidden. The final piece is from the Copppermind website, when looking up Trell, Sanderson has said that "Trell has been many things over the eons..." so why not use that name to sow some confusion. So there it is. My theory that Trell is Dalinar, working on behalf of Todium to bring peace to the cosmere and take down all those corrupt leaders and gods. Now what does this mean for the future of the cosmere...
  13. Background Preservation & Ruin created the planet Scadrial together from scratch after the Shattering. Trell is a shard/or shard-like entity that is unknown to Harmony Trellium is the metal of a known shard: Possible shard candidates (at time of WoB): Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment, or Autonomy But not necessarily a shard: Devotion and Dominion have spren-like cognitive splinters – seons and skai respectively Seons are ‘devoted’ servants to their masters Skai are described as ‘evil seons’ ( Avatars of Shards can be imbued with an intent and can operate after a shard’s vessel has died The Mist continued to snap people on Scadrial after Ati died Theory Preservation & Ruin pooled their Investiture and used a Dawnshard to create the planet Scadrial Ruin agreed to this use of Investiture on condition that he could destroy the planet eventually The Dawnshard that allowed for the planet’s creation is still on Scadrial and is currently being protected by Harmony A primary of Intent of Dominion shard is ‘to dominate’ The skai are evil counterparts to seons who are described as being helpful and obedient. The opposite of this could be 'dominating'. Trell is an avatar of Dominion Etymologically the word Trell is related to a Norse word meaning ‘slave or thrall’. This aspect fits as an aspect of Dominion that has an Intent to dominate Trellium is Dominion’s metal Trellium as a hemolurgic spike allowed for control over Paalm and the hemalurgic chimeras created by her. This fits with an Intent of domination. Harmony is unaware of what Trellium is and that it comes from Dominion because the Vessel of Dominion is dead. His knowledge of Shards and wider Realmatic Theory comes from self-study and from whatever the other Shard Vessels and people like Hoid tell him Trell's ultimate purpose is to get the Dawnshard on Scardrial Open Questions As an avatar of Dominion, Trell was able to move a large amount of Dominon’s Investiture off planet. Could this be connected to Kelsier (and by extension the Ghostbloods) goal to learn how to move large amounts of Investiture off planet? Could Odium’s decision to destroy Dominion (and Devotion) be influenced by what Dominion’s plans were? What (if any) is the connection to the man named Trell on Taldain?
  14. So after letting the revelations from Rhythm of War settle in my head for a few days, and reading some of the discussion on here, I had a thought about the “Lord of Scars.” Rather than Thaidakar literally being Kelsier, is it possible that Autonomy/whoever Trell is is coopting Kelsier’s authority or one of his many cults in the same way that Trellism appears to have been coopted in Mistborn Era 2? That would make a few things make more sense to me, and seems to fit the MO of “Trell.” Known problems with this theory: The description of someone with a “similar ailment” to the Heralds doesn’t seem to fit anyone but a Cognitive Shadow. Unless Autonomy wants Kelsier off Scadrial as well, which could be happening I guess. Also, Wit/Hoid seems to think it’s actually Kelsier, from what he told Shallan, and he seems to be actively undermining the Sovereign’s attempts at secrecy in Bands of Mourning, so it kind of seems like it might just be him. But I thought this was at least worth mentioning, since Hoid is not omniscient and could probably be fooled by, say, a Shard on occasion. So given those issues, this is probably more complex than the facts need to actually be. I do still like the thought that maybe they’re involved or related to each other in some way. I can’t see Kelsier, as we knew him, just allowing a foreign influence to invade Scadrial (in the form of Trell) if he knew about it, unless he was okay with that power’s goals somehow.
  15. Hello. So, I was just listening to the Shardcast episode on Autonomy, and I got thinking about their intent and what it means exactly. So, what gets me about Autonomy is their actions seemingly run counter to their intent. In Mistborn era 2, it has been implied that Autonomy may be the one who is “invading” Scadrial and Trell is somehow associated with Autonomy. For this theory, I’m just going to assume that Trell is an aspect or avatar of Autonomy, and is expressing a similar intent to her. In this case, Trell trying to take control of another Shard’s planet, and interfering with that Shard’s autonomy seems to go counter to their intent. Additionally, the names of ranks in the set are things like “Suit”, or “Sequence”. This seems very strange given that these names give the idea that you are part of a whole, not autonomous. This could be a reference to Autonomy’s many avatars, and Autonomy herself being a set of many aspects, but it still seems strange. I would say that Autonomy seems to follow her intent in her minions’ teachings. Paalm speaks constantly about her feeling of being controlled, her lack of autonomy. Bloody Tan follows the same train of thought. “Someone else moves us, lawman.” So, what can we deduce from this about what Autonomy’s intent means, and how Bavadin perceives that intent? What may her goals be? I want to try and think about Autonomy as an aspect of Adonalsium. Each shard is an aspect of the divine. Odium is “God’s own divine hatred”. Presumably, Honor is Adonalsium’s sense of integrity, holding to oaths. Preservation is Adonalsium’s desire to preserve his creations. Etc. So, what was Autonomy? I think this quote helps us here: To me, what I feel like is that Autonomy is god’s divine will. Autonomy is Adonalsium’s resolve, willpower, sense of self, and force of personality. Adonalsium’s identity. To be clear, I don’t think that Autonomy is in any way the shard of the realmatic concept Identity. Just as Honor, the shard of bonds, is not in the shard in charge of the the realmatic concept of Connection. I also don’t think Autonomy somehow now has the same personality as Adonalsium. I simply think that Autonomy embodies the strength of character and resolve behind whatever consciousness Adonalsium had. One way I think of it, for anyone who plays tabletop RPGs, is that Autonomy is the quality you use when you roll a willpower or charisma saving throw. This idea seems to fit with Autonomy’s actions. They want to be on their own, and stand as alone and resolute. Yet, Bavadin makes avatars because she wants as many autonomous aspects of herself as possible. Her intent is to try and accentuate her identity and self, so she creates many avatars which each accentuate her different aspects. So why does Autonomy seem so intent on controlling and interfering with other planets? Well, to me, it seems like there are a few possibilities. Maybe she wants to enforce her personality on others. Maybe she wants other people to just be reflections of Autonomy. Maybe her force of personality and intent make her want to literally remake worlds in her image. I don’t know, but it makes sense to me that a Shard focused on their own willpower and identity would want to use that extreme force of personality to dominate others. That’s maybe getting a little close to Dominion’s intent, but I think the idea of a domineering intent like this can be done uniquely in multiple ways. Now, I’m going to go into crazy speculation territory and say that this could also hint at Autonomy’s long-term goals. Following this line, Autonomy may want to remake everything in her image, so that everyone and everything is simply an extension of her. This would be a unique way to have a “conquer the world” kind of villain, which I think is interesting. TLDR: Autonomy’s intent can possibly be described as being “god’s willpower” or “god’s identity”, similar to how Odium is “god’s anger”.
  16. So a lot of theories have been proposed about the nature of Trell, and Brandon has been very coy with the few answers he has given. Most people I've seen seem to think that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, or there's the lesser number that think it is something to do with Odium. I have even seen it suggested that Trell might be an avatar of Autonomy that has been corrupted by Odium. I believe that all of these theories have merit. However, they also don't entirely make sense to me. Therefore, I offer a new interpretation: Trell is related to the investiture of multiple shards, including Odium and Autonomy. Specifically, Trell is a being of Willfully Corrupted Investiture, influenced by the power and intent of at least 2 shards. How is this possible? Allow me to explain. First, why does Trell want to mess with Scadrial? There are good arguments here for both Odium and Autonomy. Odium is aware of Harmony, wants to be the most powerful shard in the Cosmere, is troubled by the implications of two shards merging, and HATES that there is something so much more powerful than himself. Autonomy believes that the shards are better off separate, so she might feel an impulse to get involved, but all her behavior to date, including the opinion she states in the letter to Hoid, seems to indicate that staying separate means that she won't get involved in any way with another shard unless a shard threatens her. However, Autonomy creates lots of avatars. By the nature of being autonomous, these avatars would all have free will. This is where the theory really takes shape. We know that the events of Stormlight take place between Mistborn Era 1 & 2. Brandon has been asked before if Odium will survive the events of Stormlight 5, and he answered that the Shard of Odium would survive, but RAFO'd whether Rayse would still be the one holding the shard when the dust settled. Let's assume, for a moment, that something is going to happen to Rayse. I believe that when Rayse is killed, part of his shard will splinter, and a portion of his essence will go flying off into the Cosmere. Let's say that one of Autonomy's avatars is particularly rebellious, and would be more willing to get involved - the letter even states that Hoid's plea might have been better received if it had come to the right one of them, indicating that at least one avatar would be willing to get involved in the Cosmere. However, because the power of Autonomy is shared [presumably evenly] between the different avatars, that avatar doesn't have enough power on its own to risk challenging Harmony. That avatar might see Odium's Splintering as an opportunity. The avatar then willfully embraces part of Odium's power to increase its own might, in an act of ultimate Autonomy: the freedom to choose to become something different. The resulting combo will be something that is neither Odium nor Autonomy, but something that is both. The 2 powers will corrupt one another. Now, because they have different Intents, there is going to be some conflict. I figure that the avatar's personality is going to get damaged, and in mending that damage to their cognitive aspect they will tap into the religion of Trellism. Autonomy: a god with many eyes. Odium: a god that is jealous and resentful of all others with power. Trell and Nalt will become one and the same [-ish, in a way, in a weird shard-v-shard battle of interpretation], and they (the joined power of Odium and the avatar of Autonomy) will adopt a new Identity as Trell, a being with two component parts that both have a reason to dislike Harmony. We could take this argument even further if we wanted to: Trell still wouldn't have enough raw power to take on Harmony, and it probably doesn't want a direct confrontation unless it can help it. Therefore, it's going to spend some time preparing. That will mean manipulating agents on the ground on Scadrial, preparing the way through Miles, Bleeder, and the Set. It might also seek more power, in which case it might seek out and try to subsume some splinters of other shards with powers and intents that would be compatible with its purpose, like Dominion [because it needs to conquer and rule over other shards] and Ambition [because it feels an intense drive to achieve its aims]. But I won't go there just yet. I'm just pointing it out as a possibility. Okay, it's time to provide a little evidence other than reasoning for my wild theory [WoBs cited at the end, spoilered for length]. First, Trell is not native to Yolen. We don't know if all the original Vessels were from Yolen, but this certainly allows for the possibility of a Shards-intermingling-in-the-void-type origin. Second, Trell has been many different things throughout its history. Yes, that could just mean that it has performed different roles in different places, but it could also mean that Trell has different components that have originated at different times. Next, as to whether Trell is its own shard or something that was created by a shard: Brandon has RAFO'd the question of whether Odium is Trell, but has confirmed that there is "some connection." Further, Brandon does not say that Trell is a shard- he deliberately calls that an assumption, and then RAFO'd further. This could mean that Trell is not one shard, but pieces of multiple shards. But separately he does confirm that Trell is related to a Shard. That could mean that it is the product of a shard, or it could mean that Trell is literally related to a shard - as in, Trell is made of bits and pieces, psuedo-genetically, of a shard. Next, the god-metal, Trellium. Brandon RAFO'd whether it was always rusty, but I believe the answer is yes. Why? Because it fits. It is the Physical manifestation of corrupted investiture, from being composed of bits of different shards. We know that red is associated with corrupted investiture, and two more WoBs reinforce the idea that this is corrupted. First, Brandon has confirmed that red, and corruption, is definitely associated with the thing [Trell] that is moving toward Scadrial. Second, but before I get to the next WoB, it can't be pure Raysium because we see Raysium in OB, in Vyre's dagger. It is a reddish-golden-white color, while Bleeder's spike is silvery-white with splotches of rust. The fact that it [Trellium] is two colors, and one of those colors is red rust, indicates that it is a product of something corrupted. Therefore, it would involve the power of multiple shards. Lastly, Brandon has RAFO'd, but also said this person was on the right track, when they asked if the metal of Bleeder's spike was related related to something seen in the Emperor's Soul-- i.e., some form of power related to Sel. Perhaps the sceptre, which theoretically allows for the conversion of one form of investiture to another-- this is another possibility for how an avatar of Autonomy could assimilate the investiture of a splinter from another shard. Sorry for the big wall of text, but what do you guys think? Could this theory hold water?
  17. Since I’m terrible with forums, forgive me if there’s already something on this. My Trell Suspicions (I’ve also only read Sanderson’s Mistborn world books) So when I was rereading era 1, I was trying to look at all the religions Sazed mentions to see if Trell was there. (Note: Trell as in the guy Miles Hundredlives believes in) Yes, Sazed does mention him. It’s a religion that worships the stars and night. Could it be that Trell is real? He’s written in a lot in era 2. More than any other religion Sazed preached.....
  18. I had a theory. In Mistborn era 1 Sazed talks about a religious group, the Nelazan, who worshipped the stars, a god with a thousand eyes named Trell. Could it be that this religion actually originates from people who moved from Taldain to Scadrial, and the religion of The Sand Lord/Autonomy morphed into this.... And perhaps this exodus was led by Trell the construction foreman and somehow over time his name became associated with their god.
  19. Ok , hey , I'm a new guy . Joined today actually. Hum, please move this to the proper section if I post this into a wrong forum or something. And I confess that it's probably wrong since there are WoBs directly contradicting my theories about the hemalurgic metals. (Can someone send me those if u have them ? ) Still I thought it made an interesting theory .So here's my theory : So I was looking through the wiki and found that the 4 blessings were listed as hemalurgic iron , tin , zinc and copper. But I disagree. the mistwraiths were created from full feruchemists , so I think they needed a part of a feruchemist's spiritweb to work on a Kandra. So I think the reason there were so few Kandra in each generation was because u needed hemalurgic spikes made by killing feruchemists. Therefore the four blessings would be : A). The blessing of strength was H-Pewter, which steals feruchemical physical powers. B). The blessing of awareness was H-Brass, which steals feruchemical cognitive powers . C). The blessing of presence was H-gold , which steals feruchemical hybrid powers D). The blessing of stability was H-aluminium , which steals all powers. Points in favor of my theory : 1). Hemalurgic copper , iron , zinc and tin steal human charecteristics. Normal humans. Not metalborn. Tlr didn't really care much about skaa and used them to make spikes indiscriminately for creating koloss. Why then limit the number of Kandra per generation to a hundred ? More Kandra meant more loyal subjects and spies and better atium Management and conservation. 2). Feruchemists on the other hand were rare , rarer than allomancers. Hence it would make sense why so few spikes were available to the kandra. 3).If the Kandra were rebellious , wouldn't they just steal spikes from like the treasury or from the koloss or by killing or mercykilling humans ,( I mean hey there were lots of impoverished or crippled skaa who would have been almost dead due to starvation , the mistsnapping , war , gang violence or tlr's general tyranny , who could euthanized as an act of Mercy during era 1 . And even during era 2 ) and make more Kandra ? I mean , that seems like a serious lapse in security by tlr. 4). Why are Kandra with the blessing of stability so rare ? I mean , zinc spikes should be as common as iron. Wouldn't it make more sense if this blessing was due to aluminum , a rare metal which might have been experimentally used a few times and then abandoned , due to lack of the resource. 5). I think , that aluminum is perhaps the most stable and inert of all the metals. Something that is immune to all ( ?? ) forms of investiture. Wouldn't it make sense that this would grant the blessing of stability which supposedly makes a Kandra less susceptible to external control. 6). Marasi notes that Ru Luur's spike was probably pewter. 7). In many ways it seems Kandra are superior to humans . They are usually peaceful , great at defense , functionally immortal , can change morphology to suit thier professions ( Spoiler for WoR ) Indeed , if it weren't for the mind control. ( spoiler for oathbringer ) It seems callous of Rashek to ignore this possiblity. With allomancy becoming weaker with every generation , knowledge of mind control and duralumin being suppressed and tlr himself running out of both sanity and his atium compounding efficiency , it might have been possible for Kandra to rise in rebellion. Even assassinate tlr and the Inquisitors themselves. Especially , if Paalm revealed how easy it was to infiltrate the ranks of the Inquisitors. Marsh did the same thing too remember. Several of the younger generations clamored for change and the kandra themselves hated being sequestered in some dank caves. Points against my theory : 1). Perhaps tlr was afraid of Kandra overrunning humans . Or didn't wanna overcrowd them in the pits and hence limited the number of new ones per generation . 2). Even if the Kandra were rebellious , it should have been easy for tlr , the Inquisitors , mistborn or soother mobs to get them under control. But then again , perhaps they might have removed one spike in order to remain immune to mind control , but it would have been harrowing for the kandra. 3). There seems to be WoBs stating that it was the normal power stealing H-spikes , ie, zinc ,tin,etc ,that were the blessings. This is , if true ,actually the most damning piece of evidence against my theory. 4). Then there's the possibility that the kandra were never a security risk. I mean even 3 centuries after the catacendre , most Kandra are peaceful and Van Dell just simply hates violence. It seems only the third generation and a few like MeLaan are the exceptions. They might actually hate themselves for being hemalurgic creations, but still if all one needs is a iron spike , then couldn't they mercykill some humans and create young ones or scrounge some from s dead or dying koloss ? Potential possiblities if my theory is true : 1). Sazed is afraid of the kandra. Hence he has had the mistwraiths eradicated , resusticated into humans or atleast removed from thier sentient brethren. Whether the kandra like this or not is impossible to foresee. 2). On one hand , the kandra seem to be peaceful creatures who willingly choose suicide even tho they are immortal. 3). On the other hand , the kandra have had centuries of practice acting and hiding thier true feelings. Then there was the dream / religious prophecy Ten Soon told Vin about Kandra ruling Scadrial once all the humans were dead. Paalm's anger at Sazed might have been atleast partially due to Sazed's oppression of the kandra. In some ways , Sazed's treatment of the kandra is worse than tlr's. 4). Perhaps some Kandra are truly loyal to Sazed , but as we saw in HoA , not all Kandra have the same view. So perhaps it's possible that some factions among the kandra including the world Hoppers?? are planning to oust him and gain control of Scadrial. Perhaps that's how Paalm first came in contact with Trell . Perhaps the ' faceless immortals ' Trell has , according to Edwarn ladrian are actually Kandra world Hoppers who defected to Trell or odium or whoever else , in order to gain greater autonomy for the kandra . 5). Finally we see Paalm using metalborn abilities and a statement saying that she had infiltrated Inquisitors. I really doubt you can infiltrate the ministry of Inquisition without displaying metalborn abilities. So is Sazed lying ? Tlr had reason to contain such knowledge from the kandra but does Sazed have similar reasons ? Also perhaps the spike which grants metalborn abilities might be aluminium . I mean if H-aluminum steals all powers then could it be possible that as a blessing it could grant all powers or well one power each. Perhaps this is also the reason the kandra themselves are oblivious of this knowledge since aluminum is super rare and aluminum spikes even more so. Yep , no proof for this. Just tinfoil. And Wax's observation of Paalm's spike seems to refute this reasoning. But then again Wax was like totally depressed at the time and wasn't able to run tests on it and the kandra removed it soon enough. Maybe Paalm just mixed in something else in the spike to change it's colouring , in order to fool ppl.
  20. I recently reread the Way of Kings after finishing my Mistborn reread and in Mistborn there is a chapter where Sazed is describing Trelagism where "They saw the stars as the Thousand Eyes of Trell watching them. The sun was the single, jealous eye of Trell’s brother, Nalt." The Interlude at the Purelake in the Way of Kings caught my attention when they described their god as "Nu Ralik was their god, but you always pretended that he wasn’t. Vun Makak—his younger, spiteful brother—had to be tricked into thinking you worshiped him, otherwise he’d get jealous." I also kinda remember a story where one moon was jealous of the others but I don't remember what book that was in. I just can't help but feel that these are all connected. (I do believe in the Autonomy=Trell theory)
  21. Are trellism and the purelaker religion the same concept, changed because of the differences in time and space?There are some parallels between the religions such as the two brothers, and pretending to worship one, when they are really worshipping the other.
  22. Is Trell a piece of Adonalsium? Or is he a splinter of one of the gods that Odium has killed? I am really confused about this. Oh and is the person in Whitesand related named Trell. Trell is the being who is fighting Harmony currently if you aren't familiar with who he is. The fact that Miles worships him and that he has Faceless Immortals means he has some power right?
  23. The newspaper illustrations of the Mistborn Era 2 books are full of easter eggs and yet don't seem to get discussed much. As I was flipping through Shadows of Self again, I stumbled over this one that I didn't pay proper attention to before: (Be sure to click at the "Full Size" button at the bottom left to make it readable.) Specifically, I mean the article about "VISITORS from other WORLDS". It mentions a blue pool south of the Southern Roughs and an inhuman creature "by the pool". The implications seem to be obvious: The pool is a perpendicularity and the creature is some kind of worldhopper. This could mean it's Harmony's perpendicularity - or one of them. Brandon has been close-lipped about whether Harmony has one or two of them. However, blue being the perpendicularity's color irritates me. The colors of the previous perpendicularities on Scadrial were black and white, and while Harmony would be able to change the color, I don't see any reason for him to do. Blue wouldn't mean anything to him, would it? The logical conclusion is this perpendicularity being one of another Shard, as in Trell. It is very likely that Trell is an avatar of a Shard (and it's very likely that it's Autonomy), and avatars seem to be able to manifest perpendicularities (as happened on First of the Sun), so it doesn't seem unlikely that Trell's interaction with Scadrial has also lead to one manifesting - it has, after all, lead to another god metal. It's not clear what the creature mentioned in the text might be. But - while all kinds of characters could move through it no matter its origin - it seems likely that it's associated with Trell: After all, the perpendicularity seems to be in the south, and the south seems to be a very good place to hide things on Scadrial (it took them hundreds of years to even discover the Southern continent), so it might be a safe place to move his agents through (like the red-eyed visitor in Bands of Mourning's epilogue - they had to get to Scadrial somehow, and without Harmony noticing, ideally). As for the meaning of the color blue in this context, in Trelagism, Trell is associated with the night sky, which, being blue, could be an explanation for the symbolism behind blue as Trell's color. Anything else I missed? Let me know. Also, if you find other interesting things in the Mistborn Era 2 newspaper sheets, I might repurpose this thread to an "Era 2 newpaper discussion".
  24. Hi, all! I’ve been thinking lately about Feruchemy, and its place in the cosmere canon. A few things have been nagging at me, and so I searched the forums here to see what anyone else has been talking about in regards to this issue. Not finding anything, I figured I’d best get this conversation started. It has always bothered me that Feruchemy was considered a system of both Preservation and Ruin. Particularly now that we know a third entity has been influencing the system. It makes sense to me, then, that Feruchemy might be based in the investiture of this third party. Now presuming Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, our first piece of evidence should be in the very way Feruchemy functions; A Feruchemist draws their power from themselves. If nothing else, I feel this alone makes a reasonably convincing argument. Ummm... I had other points, I think. Sorry, I just finished work. My brain died a little.
  25. Okay, I mentioned this on the Discord the other day, and just on the one-in-a-billion chance I might be onto something here, I just wanna go on record with this. Is it even conceivable that the being that we know as Trell might be some insane splinter or avatar of Honor? Literally the only piece of evidence I have for this, if it even qualifies as evidence, is the name ‘Trell’. The only other place I have ever in my life heard that name before the Cosmere was minor yet narratively significant character of the same name in the Thomas Covenant series. In that series, and keeping spoilers to a minimum, Trell violates a sacred oath he made to do no harm and ends up going insane and psychotic as a result. Now I know that Brandon at the very least knows about this series, since he’s mentioned it, so for all I know he very well could have gotten the name from there, but I find it vanishingly unlikely that he’d go further and actually emulate the character, but not impossible I suppose. And if he is, the closest direct parallel in the Cosmere would probably be a splinter of Honor who went insane by violating an oath in some sense. Or maybe of some other Shard who a similar thing happened to. Is this even a remote possibility at this point based on what we know? Or do we know for a fact that this parallel, if it even is one, is just the name? Like I said, I think this is very unlikely.