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Found 53 results

  1. Hey all - I was doing a re-read of Mistborn 1 and came across a passage that I found particularly interesting given Brandon's specific choice of word. I am not sure if this has been brought up before, I couldn't find any note of it in the tags despite the many different topics and discussions of Trell. So wanted to bring the communities attention to this. I am unsure whether this is a purely co-incidental word choice by Brandon, but as we know of our favourite author, very little of what he writes is accidental, which makes me think given our knowledge of new shards, perhaps the truth has been staring us in the face since the first time we heard about Trell. Here is the passage: 'It listed the tenets of the Nelazan people, who had worshipped the god Trell. Sazed had always been partial to this religion because of it's focus on learning and the study of mathematics and the heavens...True, the Nelazan had known a great deal about astronomy, but their teachings of the afterlife were sketchy - almost whimsical. Their doctrine was purposefully vague, they'd taught, allowing all men to discover truth for themselves...What good was a religion without answers? Why believe in something if the response to half it's questions was "Ask Trell, and he will answer?"'. Page 410, Chapter 46 - Hero of Ages. A few points on this: 1. The specific choice of the word whimsical to describe the religion of Trell now takes on a potentially insightful new meaning given that Whimsy is now a confirmed Shard. 2. Brandon specifically notes that the Nelazan had known a great deal about maths and astronomy - if I was to chose two words that would indicate to me that a group of people were Cosmere aware, without being obvious, those two words would be high on my list. They had a religion with it's focus as the study of science and the universe - which sounds very much like a basis understanding of how the Cosmere works. 3. The core worship structure of not having answers to questions, but just a believe that Trell will answer - as opposed to religions that already lay out all the answers upfront in a creed, suggests that they are confident that their god exists, lives, and importantly 'can answer'. While at the same time coming into line with the core concept of Whimsy - 'a sudden wish or idea that cannot be reasonable explained'. They didn't need answers, as they didn't know what all the questions were. They just had faith that their God would answer. 4. Given Trell's involvement in Mistborn 1.5, we can safely say that the Nelazan were onto something with their religion - that it had a grounding in truth. If we draw this all together, then Brandon's use of the word whimsical, in conjunction with describing the Nelazan as seemingly cosmere aware, and the concepts of their faith matching into what could be considered Whimsy. We might have a good argument to state that Trell is of Whimsy. Also - wouldn't it be fun for Trell to be connected to a Shard we know very little about as a way to introduce potentially a new major player into the cosmere game. A trickster Shard inserting himself in small religions across the Cosmere under the noses of other Shards, not bound tightly to one planetary system but working through avatars everywhere. Would love it if anyone gets the chance to ask Brandon if his choice of word in Hero of Ages was important. Also - as always, would love for the community to rip this to pieces and show me some tasty WoB's that disprove me that Trell is linked to Whimsy. Stay positive and negative!
  2. TLDR; Trell is the avatar of Ruin. So, I was chatting with @I think I am here., as you do, and we were talking about the recent books that have been released. I heard somewhere that Trell will be in the new book, so I mentioned that to him, and we talked about who he could be. I believe that Trell is an avatar of Ruin. Think about it, we haven't really seen that many avatars in the cosmere yet, so it could be high time for another one to appear. Plus, it supports the fact that Harmony is "distracted", according to the Kandra. He could be preoccupied with dealing with Ruin's avatar. Ruin could be dead, but his avatar could remain, as it's not a direct part of Ruin. however, it could hold part of it's power, and have some form of Atium, hence the title "The Lost Metal". Also, another point on this is the metal in BoM, or "trellium", could just be a metal that's been corrupted, as it's speckled red, like rust. Red is the colour of corrupted Investiture, and the avatar could be doing some shonky things to Harmony's magic system.
  3. Ok, I have no proof of this hypothesis. But seeing the fact that Axindweth is from Terris (Scadrial), and she is the one who brings the voidspren to Roshar from Braize, it makes me think that she is a member of the Set, or that she is someone important in Trell's plans. We know that Odium and Autonomy have a "pact", being possible allies, so it would not be strange that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, who feels admiration for Odium (like Patji in Oathbringer's letter) and seeks the return of the Desolations to favor Odium. It is not a well-crafted hypothesis, but it is what I think it might be. And furthermore, I also think that the Set itself is a reaction to the Ghostbloods, being rival organizations, like the Ghostbloods and Sons of Honor. What do you think?
  4. Hello! After reading Rhythm of War and thinking about the Cosmere as a whole, I came up with a crazy theory that had shocked me to the core, and I can't find anything that disproves this theory, so I want to share it here and get other's opinions of this. My theory has to do with Trell, who we learn the existance of in Mistborn Era 2, and connecting it with Stormlight Archive. First, my theory is based on two assumptions: 1) That Mistborn Era 2 takes place after the first 5 books of the Stormlight Archive. I saw a fan made image on Instagram a while ago that showed this was the case. Has new information changed this? I haven't seen any updated timelines for the books. 2) That Dalian will loose in the upcoming battle against Odium and become a pawn of Todium (Taravangian with Odium's power). My theory is that Trell is Dalinar working on behalf of Todium. Pg 1193 of RoW "So Taravangian knew the cosmere was in chaos. Ruled by fools. Presides over by broken gods." We see that Todium looks out into the Cosmere and sees all the corrupt leaders and the other shards/gods and sees that it needs to be made right. Later on that page he says "and now, Taravangian was going to save them all." Todium clearly has plans not only for Roshar, but for all of the cosmere to make things "right". It sounds like he's going along the lines of Odium's original plan of being the only god and possibly bringing peace and security to the cosmere. Pg 385 of Shadows of Self "The governor was planning to speak to the people of the city. Bleeder hadn't succeeded in killing him yet, and Wax suspected he knew why. Because when she murdered him, she wanted an audience." Here we see Bleeder, who is being used by Trell, trying to take out a major political leader on Scadrial. Clearly Trell wants the "corrupt" leaders killed in front of the public to try and win over the hearts and minds of the people to them. If Bleeder had succeeded there is likely more to Trell's plan to put a better leader in place. Perhaps even someone who is a minion of Trell who would bring the right sort of leadership to a major area of Scadrial. Pg 435 of Shadows of Self (there are a few lines here I'm not going to quote them all) but it confirms that the metal is not one that Harmony knows. So it is a metal from another world, from another god. Let's call this metal Taravangium. (Not Trellium, though it was Trell, aka Dalinar, who delivered this metal to Scadrial on behalf of Todium.) (formerly this metal was Raysium) We also know (I don't have a quote for this) that shards can sense the presence of other shards. If Odium was free of Roshar and working in the Scadrial system as Trell, Harmony would know. But, we do know that powerful humans (and other beings) can operate on a planet without the shard noticing. Pg 535 of RoW in the text at the start of the chapter (which we can assume is a letter from Harmony to Hoid) "Regardless, please make yourself known to me when you travel my lands. It is distressing that you think you need to move in the shadows". Dalinar, going by the name of Trell, powered by Odium, could come to Scadrial and work to recruit members to Todium's cause, and Harmony would not be able to detect him as long as he kept hidden. The final piece is from the Copppermind website, when looking up Trell, Sanderson has said that "Trell has been many things over the eons..." so why not use that name to sow some confusion. So there it is. My theory that Trell is Dalinar, working on behalf of Todium to bring peace to the cosmere and take down all those corrupt leaders and gods. Now what does this mean for the future of the cosmere...
  5. Background Preservation & Ruin created the planet Scadrial together from scratch after the Shattering. Trell is a shard/or shard-like entity that is unknown to Harmony Trellium is the metal of a known shard: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69-shadows-of-self-release-party/#e6261 Possible shard candidates (at time of WoB): Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment, or Autonomy But not necessarily a shard: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/377-idaho-falls-signing/#e12232 Devotion and Dominion have spren-like cognitive splinters – seons and skai respectively Seons are ‘devoted’ servants to their masters Skai are described as ‘evil seons’ (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/247-ancient-17s-qa/#e5540) Avatars of Shards can be imbued with an intent and can operate after a shard’s vessel has died The Mist continued to snap people on Scadrial after Ati died Theory Preservation & Ruin pooled their Investiture and used a Dawnshard to create the planet Scadrial Ruin agreed to this use of Investiture on condition that he could destroy the planet eventually The Dawnshard that allowed for the planet’s creation is still on Scadrial and is currently being protected by Harmony A primary of Intent of Dominion shard is ‘to dominate’ The skai are evil counterparts to seons who are described as being helpful and obedient. The opposite of this could be 'dominating'. Trell is an avatar of Dominion Etymologically the word Trell is related to a Norse word meaning ‘slave or thrall’. This aspect fits as an aspect of Dominion that has an Intent to dominate Trellium is Dominion’s metal Trellium as a hemolurgic spike allowed for control over Paalm and the hemalurgic chimeras created by her. This fits with an Intent of domination. Harmony is unaware of what Trellium is and that it comes from Dominion because the Vessel of Dominion is dead. His knowledge of Shards and wider Realmatic Theory comes from self-study and from whatever the other Shard Vessels and people like Hoid tell him Trell's ultimate purpose is to get the Dawnshard on Scardrial Open Questions As an avatar of Dominion, Trell was able to move a large amount of Dominon’s Investiture off planet. Could this be connected to Kelsier (and by extension the Ghostbloods) goal to learn how to move large amounts of Investiture off planet? Could Odium’s decision to destroy Dominion (and Devotion) be influenced by what Dominion’s plans were? What (if any) is the connection to the man named Trell on Taldain?
  6. So after letting the revelations from Rhythm of War settle in my head for a few days, and reading some of the discussion on here, I had a thought about the “Lord of Scars.” Rather than Thaidakar literally being Kelsier, is it possible that Autonomy/whoever Trell is is coopting Kelsier’s authority or one of his many cults in the same way that Trellism appears to have been coopted in Mistborn Era 2? That would make a few things make more sense to me, and seems to fit the MO of “Trell.” Known problems with this theory: The description of someone with a “similar ailment” to the Heralds doesn’t seem to fit anyone but a Cognitive Shadow. Unless Autonomy wants Kelsier off Scadrial as well, which could be happening I guess. Also, Wit/Hoid seems to think it’s actually Kelsier, from what he told Shallan, and he seems to be actively undermining the Sovereign’s attempts at secrecy in Bands of Mourning, so it kind of seems like it might just be him. But I thought this was at least worth mentioning, since Hoid is not omniscient and could probably be fooled by, say, a Shard on occasion. So given those issues, this is probably more complex than the facts need to actually be. I do still like the thought that maybe they’re involved or related to each other in some way. I can’t see Kelsier, as we knew him, just allowing a foreign influence to invade Scadrial (in the form of Trell) if he knew about it, unless he was okay with that power’s goals somehow.
  7. Hello. So, I was just listening to the Shardcast episode on Autonomy, and I got thinking about their intent and what it means exactly. So, what gets me about Autonomy is their actions seemingly run counter to their intent. In Mistborn era 2, it has been implied that Autonomy may be the one who is “invading” Scadrial and Trell is somehow associated with Autonomy. For this theory, I’m just going to assume that Trell is an aspect or avatar of Autonomy, and is expressing a similar intent to her. In this case, Trell trying to take control of another Shard’s planet, and interfering with that Shard’s autonomy seems to go counter to their intent. Additionally, the names of ranks in the set are things like “Suit”, or “Sequence”. This seems very strange given that these names give the idea that you are part of a whole, not autonomous. This could be a reference to Autonomy’s many avatars, and Autonomy herself being a set of many aspects, but it still seems strange. I would say that Autonomy seems to follow her intent in her minions’ teachings. Paalm speaks constantly about her feeling of being controlled, her lack of autonomy. Bloody Tan follows the same train of thought. “Someone else moves us, lawman.” So, what can we deduce from this about what Autonomy’s intent means, and how Bavadin perceives that intent? What may her goals be? I want to try and think about Autonomy as an aspect of Adonalsium. Each shard is an aspect of the divine. Odium is “God’s own divine hatred”. Presumably, Honor is Adonalsium’s sense of integrity, holding to oaths. Preservation is Adonalsium’s desire to preserve his creations. Etc. So, what was Autonomy? I think this quote helps us here: To me, what I feel like is that Autonomy is god’s divine will. Autonomy is Adonalsium’s resolve, willpower, sense of self, and force of personality. Adonalsium’s identity. To be clear, I don’t think that Autonomy is in any way the shard of the realmatic concept Identity. Just as Honor, the shard of bonds, is not in the shard in charge of the the realmatic concept of Connection. I also don’t think Autonomy somehow now has the same personality as Adonalsium. I simply think that Autonomy embodies the strength of character and resolve behind whatever consciousness Adonalsium had. One way I think of it, for anyone who plays tabletop RPGs, is that Autonomy is the quality you use when you roll a willpower or charisma saving throw. This idea seems to fit with Autonomy’s actions. They want to be on their own, and stand as alone and resolute. Yet, Bavadin makes avatars because she wants as many autonomous aspects of herself as possible. Her intent is to try and accentuate her identity and self, so she creates many avatars which each accentuate her different aspects. So why does Autonomy seem so intent on controlling and interfering with other planets? Well, to me, it seems like there are a few possibilities. Maybe she wants to enforce her personality on others. Maybe she wants other people to just be reflections of Autonomy. Maybe her force of personality and intent make her want to literally remake worlds in her image. I don’t know, but it makes sense to me that a Shard focused on their own willpower and identity would want to use that extreme force of personality to dominate others. That’s maybe getting a little close to Dominion’s intent, but I think the idea of a domineering intent like this can be done uniquely in multiple ways. Now, I’m going to go into crazy speculation territory and say that this could also hint at Autonomy’s long-term goals. Following this line, Autonomy may want to remake everything in her image, so that everyone and everything is simply an extension of her. This would be a unique way to have a “conquer the world” kind of villain, which I think is interesting. TLDR: Autonomy’s intent can possibly be described as being “god’s willpower” or “god’s identity”, similar to how Odium is “god’s anger”.
  8. So a lot of theories have been proposed about the nature of Trell, and Brandon has been very coy with the few answers he has given. Most people I've seen seem to think that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, or there's the lesser number that think it is something to do with Odium. I have even seen it suggested that Trell might be an avatar of Autonomy that has been corrupted by Odium. I believe that all of these theories have merit. However, they also don't entirely make sense to me. Therefore, I offer a new interpretation: Trell is related to the investiture of multiple shards, including Odium and Autonomy. Specifically, Trell is a being of Willfully Corrupted Investiture, influenced by the power and intent of at least 2 shards. How is this possible? Allow me to explain. First, why does Trell want to mess with Scadrial? There are good arguments here for both Odium and Autonomy. Odium is aware of Harmony, wants to be the most powerful shard in the Cosmere, is troubled by the implications of two shards merging, and HATES that there is something so much more powerful than himself. Autonomy believes that the shards are better off separate, so she might feel an impulse to get involved, but all her behavior to date, including the opinion she states in the letter to Hoid, seems to indicate that staying separate means that she won't get involved in any way with another shard unless a shard threatens her. However, Autonomy creates lots of avatars. By the nature of being autonomous, these avatars would all have free will. This is where the theory really takes shape. We know that the events of Stormlight take place between Mistborn Era 1 & 2. Brandon has been asked before if Odium will survive the events of Stormlight 5, and he answered that the Shard of Odium would survive, but RAFO'd whether Rayse would still be the one holding the shard when the dust settled. Let's assume, for a moment, that something is going to happen to Rayse. I believe that when Rayse is killed, part of his shard will splinter, and a portion of his essence will go flying off into the Cosmere. Let's say that one of Autonomy's avatars is particularly rebellious, and would be more willing to get involved - the letter even states that Hoid's plea might have been better received if it had come to the right one of them, indicating that at least one avatar would be willing to get involved in the Cosmere. However, because the power of Autonomy is shared [presumably evenly] between the different avatars, that avatar doesn't have enough power on its own to risk challenging Harmony. That avatar might see Odium's Splintering as an opportunity. The avatar then willfully embraces part of Odium's power to increase its own might, in an act of ultimate Autonomy: the freedom to choose to become something different. The resulting combo will be something that is neither Odium nor Autonomy, but something that is both. The 2 powers will corrupt one another. Now, because they have different Intents, there is going to be some conflict. I figure that the avatar's personality is going to get damaged, and in mending that damage to their cognitive aspect they will tap into the religion of Trellism. Autonomy: a god with many eyes. Odium: a god that is jealous and resentful of all others with power. Trell and Nalt will become one and the same [-ish, in a way, in a weird shard-v-shard battle of interpretation], and they (the joined power of Odium and the avatar of Autonomy) will adopt a new Identity as Trell, a being with two component parts that both have a reason to dislike Harmony. We could take this argument even further if we wanted to: Trell still wouldn't have enough raw power to take on Harmony, and it probably doesn't want a direct confrontation unless it can help it. Therefore, it's going to spend some time preparing. That will mean manipulating agents on the ground on Scadrial, preparing the way through Miles, Bleeder, and the Set. It might also seek more power, in which case it might seek out and try to subsume some splinters of other shards with powers and intents that would be compatible with its purpose, like Dominion [because it needs to conquer and rule over other shards] and Ambition [because it feels an intense drive to achieve its aims]. But I won't go there just yet. I'm just pointing it out as a possibility. Okay, it's time to provide a little evidence other than reasoning for my wild theory [WoBs cited at the end, spoilered for length]. First, Trell is not native to Yolen. We don't know if all the original Vessels were from Yolen, but this certainly allows for the possibility of a Shards-intermingling-in-the-void-type origin. Second, Trell has been many different things throughout its history. Yes, that could just mean that it has performed different roles in different places, but it could also mean that Trell has different components that have originated at different times. Next, as to whether Trell is its own shard or something that was created by a shard: Brandon has RAFO'd the question of whether Odium is Trell, but has confirmed that there is "some connection." Further, Brandon does not say that Trell is a shard- he deliberately calls that an assumption, and then RAFO'd further. This could mean that Trell is not one shard, but pieces of multiple shards. But separately he does confirm that Trell is related to a Shard. That could mean that it is the product of a shard, or it could mean that Trell is literally related to a shard - as in, Trell is made of bits and pieces, psuedo-genetically, of a shard. Next, the god-metal, Trellium. Brandon RAFO'd whether it was always rusty, but I believe the answer is yes. Why? Because it fits. It is the Physical manifestation of corrupted investiture, from being composed of bits of different shards. We know that red is associated with corrupted investiture, and two more WoBs reinforce the idea that this is corrupted. First, Brandon has confirmed that red, and corruption, is definitely associated with the thing [Trell] that is moving toward Scadrial. Second, but before I get to the next WoB, it can't be pure Raysium because we see Raysium in OB, in Vyre's dagger. It is a reddish-golden-white color, while Bleeder's spike is silvery-white with splotches of rust. The fact that it [Trellium] is two colors, and one of those colors is red rust, indicates that it is a product of something corrupted. Therefore, it would involve the power of multiple shards. Lastly, Brandon has RAFO'd, but also said this person was on the right track, when they asked if the metal of Bleeder's spike was related related to something seen in the Emperor's Soul-- i.e., some form of power related to Sel. Perhaps the sceptre, which theoretically allows for the conversion of one form of investiture to another-- this is another possibility for how an avatar of Autonomy could assimilate the investiture of a splinter from another shard. Sorry for the big wall of text, but what do you guys think? Could this theory hold water?
  9. Ruin and Trell have to be connected in some way. Pre-Catacendre Ruin that is. Questioner I wanted to ask about Paalm’s spike. Is it that one specifically that allowed her to hide from Harmony or would it happen with any sort of...? Brandon Sanderson It was because she was not using one out of any metal that he knew, was a big part of it. She couldn't have done that with any spike. Taking one out helped a bit, but a non-Harmony spike it had to be… What you’re seeing there is a weird hack of the magic system intentionally that was built to do that. Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015) Ruin made it so an unknown god metal would allow them to hide from Ruin(only now Harmony)
  10. Since I’m terrible with forums, forgive me if there’s already something on this. My Trell Suspicions (I’ve also only read Sanderson’s Mistborn world books) So when I was rereading era 1, I was trying to look at all the religions Sazed mentions to see if Trell was there. (Note: Trell as in the guy Miles Hundredlives believes in) Yes, Sazed does mention him. It’s a religion that worships the stars and night. Could it be that Trell is real? He’s written in a lot in era 2. More than any other religion Sazed preached.....
  11. I had a theory. In Mistborn era 1 Sazed talks about a religious group, the Nelazan, who worshipped the stars, a god with a thousand eyes named Trell. Could it be that this religion actually originates from people who moved from Taldain to Scadrial, and the religion of The Sand Lord/Autonomy morphed into this.... And perhaps this exodus was led by Trell the construction foreman and somehow over time his name became associated with their god.
  12. Ok , hey , I'm a new guy . Joined today actually. Hum, please move this to the proper section if I post this into a wrong forum or something. And I confess that it's probably wrong since there are WoBs directly contradicting my theories about the hemalurgic metals. (Can someone send me those if u have them ? ) Still I thought it made an interesting theory .So here's my theory : So I was looking through the wiki and found that the 4 blessings were listed as hemalurgic iron , tin , zinc and copper. But I disagree. the mistwraiths were created from full feruchemists , so I think they needed a part of a feruchemist's spiritweb to work on a Kandra. So I think the reason there were so few Kandra in each generation was because u needed hemalurgic spikes made by killing feruchemists. Therefore the four blessings would be : A). The blessing of strength was H-Pewter, which steals feruchemical physical powers. B). The blessing of awareness was H-Brass, which steals feruchemical cognitive powers . C). The blessing of presence was H-gold , which steals feruchemical hybrid powers D). The blessing of stability was H-aluminium , which steals all powers. Points in favor of my theory : 1). Hemalurgic copper , iron , zinc and tin steal human charecteristics. Normal humans. Not metalborn. Tlr didn't really care much about skaa and used them to make spikes indiscriminately for creating koloss. Why then limit the number of Kandra per generation to a hundred ? More Kandra meant more loyal subjects and spies and better atium Management and conservation. 2). Feruchemists on the other hand were rare , rarer than allomancers. Hence it would make sense why so few spikes were available to the kandra. 3).If the Kandra were rebellious , wouldn't they just steal spikes from like the treasury or from the koloss or by killing or mercykilling humans ,( I mean hey there were lots of impoverished or crippled skaa who would have been almost dead due to starvation , the mistsnapping , war , gang violence or tlr's general tyranny , who could euthanized as an act of Mercy during era 1 . And even during era 2 ) and make more Kandra ? I mean , that seems like a serious lapse in security by tlr. 4). Why are Kandra with the blessing of stability so rare ? I mean , zinc spikes should be as common as iron. Wouldn't it make more sense if this blessing was due to aluminum , a rare metal which might have been experimentally used a few times and then abandoned , due to lack of the resource. 5). I think , that aluminum is perhaps the most stable and inert of all the metals. Something that is immune to all ( ?? ) forms of investiture. Wouldn't it make sense that this would grant the blessing of stability which supposedly makes a Kandra less susceptible to external control. 6). Marasi notes that Ru Luur's spike was probably pewter. 7). In many ways it seems Kandra are superior to humans . They are usually peaceful , great at defense , functionally immortal , can change morphology to suit thier professions ( Spoiler for WoR ) Indeed , if it weren't for the mind control. ( spoiler for oathbringer ) It seems callous of Rashek to ignore this possiblity. With allomancy becoming weaker with every generation , knowledge of mind control and duralumin being suppressed and tlr himself running out of both sanity and his atium compounding efficiency , it might have been possible for Kandra to rise in rebellion. Even assassinate tlr and the Inquisitors themselves. Especially , if Paalm revealed how easy it was to infiltrate the ranks of the Inquisitors. Marsh did the same thing too remember. Several of the younger generations clamored for change and the kandra themselves hated being sequestered in some dank caves. Points against my theory : 1). Perhaps tlr was afraid of Kandra overrunning humans . Or didn't wanna overcrowd them in the pits and hence limited the number of new ones per generation . 2). Even if the Kandra were rebellious , it should have been easy for tlr , the Inquisitors , mistborn or soother mobs to get them under control. But then again , perhaps they might have removed one spike in order to remain immune to mind control , but it would have been harrowing for the kandra. 3). There seems to be WoBs stating that it was the normal power stealing H-spikes , ie, zinc ,tin,etc ,that were the blessings. This is , if true ,actually the most damning piece of evidence against my theory. 4). Then there's the possibility that the kandra were never a security risk. I mean even 3 centuries after the catacendre , most Kandra are peaceful and Van Dell just simply hates violence. It seems only the third generation and a few like MeLaan are the exceptions. They might actually hate themselves for being hemalurgic creations, but still if all one needs is a iron spike , then couldn't they mercykill some humans and create young ones or scrounge some from s dead or dying koloss ? Potential possiblities if my theory is true : 1). Sazed is afraid of the kandra. Hence he has had the mistwraiths eradicated , resusticated into humans or atleast removed from thier sentient brethren. Whether the kandra like this or not is impossible to foresee. 2). On one hand , the kandra seem to be peaceful creatures who willingly choose suicide even tho they are immortal. 3). On the other hand , the kandra have had centuries of practice acting and hiding thier true feelings. Then there was the dream / religious prophecy Ten Soon told Vin about Kandra ruling Scadrial once all the humans were dead. Paalm's anger at Sazed might have been atleast partially due to Sazed's oppression of the kandra. In some ways , Sazed's treatment of the kandra is worse than tlr's. 4). Perhaps some Kandra are truly loyal to Sazed , but as we saw in HoA , not all Kandra have the same view. So perhaps it's possible that some factions among the kandra including the world Hoppers?? are planning to oust him and gain control of Scadrial. Perhaps that's how Paalm first came in contact with Trell . Perhaps the ' faceless immortals ' Trell has , according to Edwarn ladrian are actually Kandra world Hoppers who defected to Trell or odium or whoever else , in order to gain greater autonomy for the kandra . 5). Finally we see Paalm using metalborn abilities and a statement saying that she had infiltrated Inquisitors. I really doubt you can infiltrate the ministry of Inquisition without displaying metalborn abilities. So is Sazed lying ? Tlr had reason to contain such knowledge from the kandra but does Sazed have similar reasons ? Also perhaps the spike which grants metalborn abilities might be aluminium . I mean if H-aluminum steals all powers then could it be possible that as a blessing it could grant all powers or well one power each. Perhaps this is also the reason the kandra themselves are oblivious of this knowledge since aluminum is super rare and aluminum spikes even more so. Yep , no proof for this. Just tinfoil. And Wax's observation of Paalm's spike seems to refute this reasoning. But then again Wax was like totally depressed at the time and wasn't able to run tests on it and the kandra removed it soon enough. Maybe Paalm just mixed in something else in the spike to change it's colouring , in order to fool ppl.
  13. I recently reread the Way of Kings after finishing my Mistborn reread and in Mistborn there is a chapter where Sazed is describing Trelagism where "They saw the stars as the Thousand Eyes of Trell watching them. The sun was the single, jealous eye of Trell’s brother, Nalt." The Interlude at the Purelake in the Way of Kings caught my attention when they described their god as "Nu Ralik was their god, but you always pretended that he wasn’t. Vun Makak—his younger, spiteful brother—had to be tricked into thinking you worshiped him, otherwise he’d get jealous." I also kinda remember a story where one moon was jealous of the others but I don't remember what book that was in. I just can't help but feel that these are all connected. (I do believe in the Autonomy=Trell theory)
  14. Are trellism and the purelaker religion the same concept, changed because of the differences in time and space?There are some parallels between the religions such as the two brothers, and pretending to worship one, when they are really worshipping the other.
  15. Is Trell a piece of Adonalsium? Or is he a splinter of one of the gods that Odium has killed? I am really confused about this. Oh and is the person in Whitesand related named Trell. Trell is the being who is fighting Harmony currently if you aren't familiar with who he is. The fact that Miles worships him and that he has Faceless Immortals means he has some power right?
  16. The newspaper illustrations of the Mistborn Era 2 books are full of easter eggs and yet don't seem to get discussed much. As I was flipping through Shadows of Self again, I stumbled over this one that I didn't pay proper attention to before: (Be sure to click at the "Full Size" button at the bottom left to make it readable.) Specifically, I mean the article about "VISITORS from other WORLDS". It mentions a blue pool south of the Southern Roughs and an inhuman creature "by the pool". The implications seem to be obvious: The pool is a perpendicularity and the creature is some kind of worldhopper. This could mean it's Harmony's perpendicularity - or one of them. Brandon has been close-lipped about whether Harmony has one or two of them. However, blue being the perpendicularity's color irritates me. The colors of the previous perpendicularities on Scadrial were black and white, and while Harmony would be able to change the color, I don't see any reason for him to do. Blue wouldn't mean anything to him, would it? The logical conclusion is this perpendicularity being one of another Shard, as in Trell. It is very likely that Trell is an avatar of a Shard (and it's very likely that it's Autonomy), and avatars seem to be able to manifest perpendicularities (as happened on First of the Sun), so it doesn't seem unlikely that Trell's interaction with Scadrial has also lead to one manifesting - it has, after all, lead to another god metal. It's not clear what the creature mentioned in the text might be. But - while all kinds of characters could move through it no matter its origin - it seems likely that it's associated with Trell: After all, the perpendicularity seems to be in the south, and the south seems to be a very good place to hide things on Scadrial (it took them hundreds of years to even discover the Southern continent), so it might be a safe place to move his agents through (like the red-eyed visitor in Bands of Mourning's epilogue - they had to get to Scadrial somehow, and without Harmony noticing, ideally). As for the meaning of the color blue in this context, in Trelagism, Trell is associated with the night sky, which, being blue, could be an explanation for the symbolism behind blue as Trell's color. Anything else I missed? Let me know. Also, if you find other interesting things in the Mistborn Era 2 newspaper sheets, I might repurpose this thread to an "Era 2 newpaper discussion".
  17. Hi, all! I’ve been thinking lately about Feruchemy, and its place in the cosmere canon. A few things have been nagging at me, and so I searched the forums here to see what anyone else has been talking about in regards to this issue. Not finding anything, I figured I’d best get this conversation started. It has always bothered me that Feruchemy was considered a system of both Preservation and Ruin. Particularly now that we know a third entity has been influencing the system. It makes sense to me, then, that Feruchemy might be based in the investiture of this third party. Now presuming Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, our first piece of evidence should be in the very way Feruchemy functions; A Feruchemist draws their power from themselves. If nothing else, I feel this alone makes a reasonably convincing argument. Ummm... I had other points, I think. Sorry, I just finished work. My brain died a little.
  18. Okay, I mentioned this on the Discord the other day, and just on the one-in-a-billion chance I might be onto something here, I just wanna go on record with this. Is it even conceivable that the being that we know as Trell might be some insane splinter or avatar of Honor? Literally the only piece of evidence I have for this, if it even qualifies as evidence, is the name ‘Trell’. The only other place I have ever in my life heard that name before the Cosmere was minor yet narratively significant character of the same name in the Thomas Covenant series. In that series, and keeping spoilers to a minimum, Trell violates a sacred oath he made to do no harm and ends up going insane and psychotic as a result. Now I know that Brandon at the very least knows about this series, since he’s mentioned it, so for all I know he very well could have gotten the name from there, but I find it vanishingly unlikely that he’d go further and actually emulate the character, but not impossible I suppose. And if he is, the closest direct parallel in the Cosmere would probably be a splinter of Honor who went insane by violating an oath in some sense. Or maybe of some other Shard who a similar thing happened to. Is this even a remote possibility at this point based on what we know? Or do we know for a fact that this parallel, if it even is one, is just the name? Like I said, I think this is very unlikely.
  19. I have been re-reading Alloy of Law over my holiday break. When I came across a specific quote that made me pause and formulate an interesting theory about Trell. Due to spoilers the rest of this post will be in a spoiler box. Read at your own discretion. Particularly if you haven't read Secret History.
  20. In the old, pre-Lord Ruler religion centered on him he was supposed to be the god of night, right? And his showy brother was god of the day. But his followers loved his humble ways more than those of his brash brother. Trell works quitely. Whereas Ruin and Preservation had a full-blown war in full view of everyone, Trell moves quietly in the background. His (ostensible) followers in The Set do too. It may be that in Warbreaker the god Austre is actually Trell. Austre seems to have very little connection to Endowment, and Austre teaches his followers to share Trell's quiet, self-effacing ways. So Trell is the shard Modesty (that is, opposite of ostentatiousness). Do you agree?
  21. Trell has been a character of interest in the Cosmere ever since the Alloy of Law book. There are tons of crazy theories on Trell and Trelagism, so I thought I'd share some of mine. Trelagism reminds me a LOT of the Shardworld Taldain. One one side it's constantly daytime - Dayside - and on the other it's constantly night - Darkside. In the religion Trelagism, worshipped by the Nelazan on Scadrial, they thought that night was sacred, as they could see the Thousand Eyes of Trell, which were the stars. This could be a reference to Darkside, and it's entirely possible some Darksiders travelled to Scadrial and spread their beliefs. White Sand takes place waaay before Mistborn. Trell, supposedly an Avatar of Autonomy, could have gone to Scadrial himself. In Trelagism, Trell was the stars and Nalt was the sun. This isn't something crazy, but I connected Nalt to Nalthis for some reason. Is this a coincidence or am I connecting two random things for no reason.
  22. For those who haven't read volume two yet (what are you doing?), A regular dude named Trell shows up for one page, and is never seen again. I nearly fell off my chair when that happened. Any ideas of what this could mean?
  23. With the knowledge that a mystery Shard has "hacked into" Scadrial's magic system and manifest its Investiture as a new godmetal, trellium. I wonder how far this extends. Could there potentially be trellium Mistings or Ferrings born in the future? We know that Preservation altered Allomancy to allow atium Mistings to be born, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But this may be something unique to Preservation, as Allomancy was his magic system to begin with. It's possible that "Trell" has interfered with the Metallic Arts enough to add a new godmetal, but not enough so that people are actually born with the "sDNA" to use it for Allomancy or Feruchemy. Any thoughts on this, one way or the other?
  24. I think the religion of the Purelake referenced in WoK Ishikk interlude is related to Autonomy because it has certain similarities to Trelagism on Scadrial. Both religions have jealous siblings that have to be avoided by followers when trying to worship their chosen god. The Trelagists have to worship Trell at night because the jealous brother is blocking the stars during the day. In the Purelake they can only worship in grottos, perhaps because they are underground and suffiiciently out of view of the stars/sun? I am thinking Autonomy's avatars don't always get along and compete for worshipers and attention.
  25. DISCLAIMER: While I don't think this argument is definitive by any means, I do think the case for "Trell-as-Cultivation" is just as strong as "Trell-as-Autonomy," perhaps stronger. It sounds nutty, but honestly I think that's because people here are assuming we know a lot more about Autonomy than we actually do. I'll explain: I'm going to start with what I think is the strongest point in favor of Trell being Cultivation: the weird Hemalurgic properties of the godmetal trellium. This may seem like digression, but I promise you this is going somewhere. Trellium acts like no metal we've ever seen. From the Coppermind: That's pretty strange, isn't it? Trellium is the only metal we know of that affects kandra like that. I know there are technically the human quality-stealing metals that grant the Blessings, but this is clearly a blessing of a totally different variety. Trellium seems to work a lot like atium, in that it can steal any Allomantic/Feruchemical ability, but it only seems to do that with kandra. But what about the chimeras from Shadows of Self? Again, from the Coppermind: Another trellium anomaly! Again, we see this godmetal acting weird. What other Hemalurgic construct even approaches this level of sheer inhumanity? All the other constructs we know of are warped from the human baseline, yes, but they remain human or humanoid in some way. Steel Inquisitors are basically artificial Mistborn. Koloss are extremely buff, extremely dumb humans with a skin condition. The kandra aren't human, but Hemalurgy turns them from mindless blobs of mush into sentient beings, so you could argue that the Blessings increase their "human-ness." But with chimeras, one trellium spike gives them some unknown quality, while warping their bodies and minds into something animalistic. Almost like koloss. Only instead of being given a human quality like strength, they were given an animal quality that twisted them into wild beasts. But how to we square this with the other Hemalurgic property of trellium, giving Metallic Arts abilities to kandra? Simple: THEORY: Hemalurgic trellium is a "universal spike" like atium, but with restrictions. It can transfer any strait or ability, but only between humans and non-humans. Meaning that a trellium spike only transfers qualities if either the spike's victim or recipient is not human. They work human-to-nonhuman, or nonhuman-to-human. This is the only way I can think of to square the two abilities of trellium that we know of. (As an aside, it also ties into a theory I'm working on about Hemalurgic godmetals, but I don't even know if I still take my own side on that one yet.) Now, if we assume that my theory on trellium is correct, we have an interesting corollary on this godmetal: its powers within the Metallic Arts, from what we've seen, appear to be deeply tied to interactions between humans, the natural world, and the interplay between them. The connection between trellium's properties and the Intent of Cultivation seems pretty clear to me. We also know from the text that Trell's agents appear to be deeply concerned with order, micromanaging affairs, and long-term planning. All of this fits very well with Cultivation's Intent. Given that we also know that a Shard's Intent affects how well they can predict the future, and that Cultivation is reportedly very, very good at predicting the future, we have a Shard interfering on Scadrial who shares a suspiciously similar MO with Cultivation. MY THEORY: Cultivation is attempting to partially invest herself on Scadrial as a backup plan in case greater Roshar falls to Odium. It's probably safe to assume at this point that Odium's hatred of Cultivation has gotten personal, and Cultivation knows that if things go wrong, she's going to be the next Shard he comes after. So she's investing herself on Scadrial, using it as a "Shardic lifeboat" of sorts to ensure that she can't be trapped on Roshar/Ashyn and Splintered like Tanavast. This growing influence manifests itself as the new godmetal "trellium," whose known Hemalurgic properties seem to fit thematically with her Intent. The only real counter-argument I can think of is that Cultivation seems pretty pre-occupied on Roshar, what with the Last Desolation and all. But is that really an argument, or is it just an assumption based on what little we've seen so far? Odium is trapped by the Oathpact, not Cultivation. She may be heavily invested, but as Autonomy shows being invested on a world is no barrier to sowing Investiture other places like a Shardic Johnny Appleseed. Is this a stretch? Maybe. Am I missing something? Quite possibly, yes. But I still think this Trell-as-Cultivation theory is worth considering, if for no other reason than that it helps us look at the question with new eyes.