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Found 19 results

  1. Someone on Reddit got this WoB a few hours ago.... Sorry, what? How? Did the regional magics exist prior to the Shards being in the Cognitive???? Because AonDor is pretty specifically based on Arelon. (Could mean a normal, non-magic city, but "when was Elantris built" feels like it's pretty clearly not saying "when were three buildings built that would become a city down the line", it's about the magical power enhancer that makes Elantris Elantris.)
  2. In Brandons “what it the cosmere” video he just released today, he mentioned Aether of Night and something caught my attention. It was a small detail, but interesting nonetheless. he said, in context of Elantris, “and so i wrote Hoid into that book. Then i wrote a book called Dragonsteel where i jumped back and told his backstory on a different planet. Then i wrote Aether of Night a little bit later, where i delved into what had happened to those Characters on a different planet, far far in the future” im a little confused on the Aether part. Brandon says that Aether is supposed to be “far far in the future” compared to Dragonsteel and Elantris. is he also saying that Characters from Dragonsteel are also in Aether? Those characters that we’re seeing “what had happened to” would have to be The Former and Decay Right? Unless hes going by a different name, Hoid’s presence in the Novel is “pop in. Pop out” at best(i still haven’t found him) back then, Brandon’s plan must’ve been something like -write Dragonsteel and introduce Ado and other Cosmere concepts(Realmatic Theory, the shattering etc...) -then write Aether, which was set far in the future after the shattering and re-introduce us to the now ascended Shards and post-shattering mechanics i really like the insight this gives us to his early writing career and how the early Cosmere looked and would’ve played out
  3. It has come to my attention recently that the timeline in the Alleyverse is a little fuzzy. For too long have we squinted into the past, wondering how long ago this or that came into occurrence. For too long have we failed to coordinate with our friends for a meeting time, and are thus unable to consume Hemalurgic or non-Hemalurgic baked items together. No longer. For I have a proposal for a calendar: a simple calendar that charts the course of the Alleyverse, from the start of the RP to today. The system is thus: a 360-day year, with 12 months in a year. No leap days. Each month is named after a guild, and each month has 30 days. Newcagus (Newcago Court) Alla (Dark Alley) Cantony (Canton of Combat) Liebrus (Liebrary) Phantus (the Ghostbloods) Gildus (the Ghostbloods - I went with the alternate name, the Gilded Rose, since it made a better name) Stinatus (Sticknaughts) Tubarus (TUBA) Kepery (the Keepers) Sentinalia (the Sentinels) Diagrama (the Diagramists) Witrosa (Church of the White Rose) Scholus (Scholar’s Guild) The first solid date that cannot be altered is the reveal of TUBA’s identity - thus, this is the first day of the new calendar. The first of Newcagus, 1 ATR (after TUBA reveal) is the day TUBA was officially revealed. Eras are either as long as their real-time duration, or longer (when taking into account timeskips). Theoretically, we could also have an era that everyone agrees ahead of time is shorter than the real-time duration. Other Dates: Rules of Warfare created: 26th of Scholus, 1 BTR (26/12/-1) Calm Before The Storm begins: 13th of Newcagus, 1 ATR (13/1/1) SDW starts: 5th of Cantony, 1 ATR (5/3/1) SDW ends: 12th of Cantony, 1 ATR (12/3/1) 16YP ends: 12th of Cantony, 17 ATR (12/3/17) Ghostblood Acquisition: 1st of Liebrus, 17 ATR (1/4/17) Great Game begins: 1st of Sentinalia, 17 ATR (1/9/17) Voidus Released: 17th of Cantony, 18 ATR (17/3/18) One-Year Interval Ends: 17th of Cantony, 19 ATR (17/3/19) Church of Whiterose Attacked: 7th of Phantus, 19 ATR (7/4/19) A Shadowed Dawn Begins: 17th of Phantus, 19 ATR (19/3/19) Era 3 Ends: 18th of Phantus, 19 ATR (30/10/19) E3-E4 Timeskip Ends: 18th of Witrosa, 19 ATR (18/11/19) Into the Dark Begins: 23rd of Witrosa, 19 ATR (23/11/19) I also propose that the end of each era (12th of Cantony, 17th of Cantony, 18th of Phantus, and the 26th of Scholus) be public holidays. It gives the world a sense of history and we could get some cool parties and threads out of them. Hopefully, when people start event threads, they can note which day the thread begins, which will help to make timelines more sense. Below are the dates of the main threads and RT - I will update it every day. INTO THE DARK DATE: 24th of Witrosa, 19 ATR. City Scenes: 12th of Scholus, 19 ATR. What do people think of this proposal?
  4. Okay, another little Stormlight Timeline update. The latest version is here: Additions I finally took the time to actually finish the timeline. Most of the Urithiru plot in Part 4 still wasn't in there. Some of Dalinar's flashbacks which were tied to Part 4 dates (including the Nightwatcher visit), weren't in there. Moash and Szeth weren't in there. And most of the interludes weren't in there. That has been remedied! There are two (or three?) Kaladin flashbacks that I haven't attempted to place yet, though these would be heavy speculation. Otherwise, that's pretty much everything I can think of that ought to be in it. If anyone ever sees something that seems missing please let me know! Reconciliation Effort The folks doing Tor's Oathbringer reread have access to a preliminary timeline produced by Brandon's team, and they've been sharing the dates they have for each chapter in their weekly reread posts. So I finally took some time to reconcile my timeline with those dates. For the most part this just involved shifting things around within the bounds of the assumptions I originally made. Tricky because of how many strings there are tying events together, but it all worked out. LOTS of Oathbringer events got shifted one way or the other, though very few of them were affected in a significant way. The vast majority were a matter of some thing shifting a few days sooner or later. In any case, my timeline MOSTLY matches theirs now. (and thus, hopefully, the official timeline) When Tor gets to the end of the book, I'll make sure to reconcile what I have for the remainder of the book! Timeline Issues There are a FEW things that appear to be errors, so I've stuck with my own guesses in those cases. This was another big goal of doing this. I've known that there are some issues with the timeline Tor is using. Going through one chapter at a time and comparing their date with my own (and my basis) allowed me to pinpoint exactly where issues were found. Notable issues that need a closer look include: Some of Dalinar's flashbacks seem to list the wrong year Jasnah's birthday is off. TWoK stated that she was 34 years old, but that doesn't match up with where Dalinar's flashbacks place her birth. I'm guessing TWoK may need to be retconned to make her a year younger. That's a simple fix compared to reworking some of the flashback continuity. Some of Shallan's activity in Oathbringer Part 1 appears to be off. But this is just official dates in the background. I don't think the book would actually be affected. I think there's a few issues with the dates for Moash. Again, nothing that would affect the book. The Shadesmar sequence doesn't match up to me. The description of how much time passes from their entrance to their exit is a bit shorter, in my opinion, than what the timeline requires. I think Brandon may need to massage some of the descriptions of how much time is passing. Some of the Everstorms seem to hit quite a bit off from where they SHOULD. This mostly doesn't bother me. The book states that they vary a bit. But the timing of the last one in Kholinar looks strange to me. Szeth and the Skybreakers spent FOUR days flying from Purelake to Marat. They make several stops, but it still seems a little weird compared to other flight times that we have.
  5. I've been itching to do a quick update post on my Stormlight Archive Timeline as I've hit a big milestone. In my last post on the timeline I mentioned wanting to convert from a spreadsheet to a database. And I've done it! Link to the newest version: Back End Changes Previously, every entry in the timeline utilized a single row in the spreadsheet. This put some restrictions on how the date was calculated and it meant my list of sources were jammed together. In my database I've broken everything down into three tables. An "event" is simply some event that occurs (along with a category for sorting and any book chapters that the event occurs in). Next is a table of "intervals" which define the number of days (and any range of error) between two events. Lastly is a table of "sources" which link any relevant sources and my notes to each interval. Now I can make a date dependent on multiple intervals (it uses the average, more or less). This is very useful for something like Gavilar's assassination, where we several potential date ranges based on different sources. The database is able to find the average date and the overlapping error range so that we get something as specific as possible. I can also create a new record for every source I use, which makes them a lot easier to organize and sort through. One downside is that I simply have a local copy of the database, and updating is a manual process. If I make changes, I have to export new spreadsheets and paste them in on top of the old copies. This isn't as bad as it sounds though, because I wanted to separate the presentation from the calculations regardless. The final product now is mostly just text, which means the Google Sheet loads up and operates a lot faster. Conditional formatting slows it down, but that was going to be there regardless. (And I can always spit out an unformatted version for maximum speed.) It also means you can use Ctrl+F to atually search the document, which is super helpful! Front End Changes In this latest version I've added a few more events than I had previously, and made a few corrections. All small stuff for the most part. The most notable additions are some Pre-History events which are very speculative. But we DID get some more details on the Desolations via WoB, and after some good conversation in the "History of Roshar" Shardcasts, I felt like there was enough information for it not to look stupid. I've also added a few "filter" options. Under the "Spoiler Filter" sheet you can check/uncheck boxes to control which event categories are displayed. Theoretically this can be used to hide spoilers, though obviously you can use that however you want. More interesting is a filter (in the top right corner) which allows users to filter out events that are below different levels of "confidence". The color of event ID numbers gives a hint at how confident I am in their date. Something marked 1 is absolutely known with explicit support while something marked 5 was pulled out of thin air for the sake of putting something on the timeline. You can now use this little dropdown to hide events below a confidence threshhold. One other change is that the event numbers act as hyperlinks to cells on other sheets. If you click the event ID number for something on the timeline, it will pop you over onto that event's row(s) on the References sheet. So you can instantly jump over and see what sources were used to nail down each event. Lastly, there's an Ages sheet, which lists the age of each character (with a known age) next to each event. The Ages column on the Timeline sheet references these numbers, though it can also be used if you want to directly compare characters side by side. Future Plans I've still got some Oathbringer events missing, so the next notable update will happen whenever I can finish those off. Many of those that are missing simply didn't have enough information (that I could find) to place the event. The good news is that Tor's Oathbringer reread posts have been listing dates for each chapter based on the gamma read timeline. I'm not assuming these are canonical, but they make for a great basis in lieu of something more specific. So I'm currently working through these, trying to reconcile our timelines. The bad news is that the Tor Reread only moves at 1 or 2 chapters per week, and they're only about 2/3 through the book! Also, I don't agree with every date provided. There are occaisional small discrepancies that I think will need to be adjusted on Karen's end (and other cases where mine need adjusting, but that's easy to fix...). In and of itself this isn't a big deal. The problem is that I don't know how the gamma timeline is CONNECTED, so if one date is wrong I have no way of knowing how a change there will impact subsequent dates. So it's going to be a while before (1) Tor's Reread reaches the end of the book and (2) I am able to finish filling in my timeline with that information. Most of the holes in my timeline are from Part 4, so I'm looking forward to that. I very well may update my timeline periodically, if I feel like I've added/changed anything significant. I will update the version number in the spreadsheet's title when I do this. But I likely won't mention those updates here or in the forums as it will just be dates added/changed. When I AM totally caught up I will probably update my timeline post in the forums. I'll also probably make another blog post that covers any discrepancies I think I've found, either with the gamma timeline or with contradictions in the book itself.
  6. Do we have a timeframe we think the story takes place in? In Earth years? I know M-bot is almost 200 years abandoned, do we know what year Defending Elysium takes place in? Do we have an idea how long after that it is?
  7. Since this has been primarily a personal project, I figure it deserved a post in this blog as well. I'm not going to talk about the content of the timeline itself here. This is more about the background and (ongoing) development of it. Link to the timeline for reference: Inspiration There were two primary inspirations for creating this timeline. First was this Wheel of Time timeline, which mostly just made me jealous that we didn't have a similar overall timeline in the works. Second was the Words of Radiance Timeline that was primarily created by WeiryWriter. Between the Everstorm countdown and a list of highstorm dates revealed in an epigraph, were were able to pin down most of the events in Words of Radiance with great accuracy. Weiry had started a timeline for The Way of Kings, but there just wasn't much concrete information to work with in that book, unfortunately. Because these timelines were living on Coppermind, we didn't want to post anything there that was more assumption than fact. Concept So the idea here is to have a timeline that DOES allow for assumptions and guesswork. But it was important to me that the whole thing be as well-researched and supported as possible. I wanted to support every date on the timeline with some kind of sourced information. Assumptions needed to provide the supporting evidence. And the confidence or certainty in an event needed to be transparent. I began by importing the Words of Radiance timeline and building out my concept for how this would work. There are two ideas that stood out: "events" and "intervals". An "event" is some event that happens in-world. A point in time that happens on a specific date. An "interval" is some period of time that passes in between events. Both events and intervals can have a "range" or "error" associated with them. This is introduced by uncertainty and assumptions. For example, if a flashback happened "Five Years Ago", we can use an interval of exactly 5 years... But we know that this doesn't mean precisely 5 years. Brandon isn't being that specific. So we attach some wiggle room to the interval. Instead of an interval of "minus 5 years" we use "minus 5 years, plus or minus 2.5 months". This error introduced by interval uncertainty factors into the dates themselves, of course. And it adds up. So if there was some event that happened "one year plus or minus 2 months" after the flashback of that last example, this event now has +/- 4.5 months of error with respect to the event that the flashback date is based on. The range alone doesn't account for what I call "confidence". There's a bit of gut feel involved here, and it's certainly true that more error/range tends to come with less confidence. But there are certainly cases where something with a range is still something we can be fairly confident in. Development After importing Words of Radiance I began to work on The Way of Kings, which is where things got really challenging. You have to really dig into that book, digging for any scrap you can get. For example, at some point there is an implication that Sadeas's bridge crews are supplemented with new men on chachel, the third day of the week. We can use this tidbit later in the book to pin down the days that Lopen and Shen join Bridge Four. Another thing I had to do a lot was work backwards. Most of Kaladin's TWoK timeline is actually worked backwards from the end of the book. Because the time that passes during Part 1 is incredibly ambiguous. There's also some contradictions, or just things that don't seem to fit very well. A comment by Elhokar at the first feast put the Chasmfiend hunt disaster on a date that doesn't work with the story, for example. Another thing involving the Chasmfiend hunt--Kaladin was strung up for the highstorm on that same day, which doesn't entirely make sense because Sadeas was out on the hunt. Prior to the release of Oathbringer, Karen Ahlstrom gave us some tidbits that helped pin down some of the dates. This helped a lot. Some of them I wasn't entirely sure about, and I regret that I didn't keep better record of those disagreements. In any case, I've tried my best to align my timeline with hers and make note of any clear contradictions that exist. I got some help pulling together notes for chronology in Oathbringer. It isn't, unfortunately, as precise as WoR was, but Brandon is more free with mentioning the passage of time at least, and Karen seems to be doing a pretty good job of tweaking the numbers so that it makes sense. I have not worked out all of my timeline to match her dates yet, however, because there are a few tweaks here or there that I think need to be made. In any case, I've still got a bit more content from Oathbringer that needs to be worked out. Issues One frustrating thing about the timeline is that it's SLOW. It takes forever to open/load, and this is only going to get worse with more books. The calculations that happen in the spreadsheet aren't terrible, but every row of the sheet does have more calculations going on than you might think. And on the timeline sheet there's a lot of string concatenations that slow things down pretty badly. I'm also frustrated by the way each entry has to exist on a single row. There are some cases where an event is based on TWO other events/intervals, and the only way to do this is by doing the math manually. This gets dangerous because many thing in the timeline are subject to change, so a shift in one of those dependencies can cause an error and I wouldn't know it readily. The sources and notes are also crammed into a single cell, which is terribly sloppy organization. Adding new rows has also caused some problems. Each entry has to be referenced by an ID, and I'm uncomfortable creating these manually for fear of making a mistake. Future Plans To solve a lot of these problems, I've been looking at moving the whole thing to an offline relational database. Anytime I made a change I would have to manually update the spreadsheet posted online, but I think it should be easy enough to automate most of that process. The idea is to have 3 separate tables for "events", "intervals", and "sources". Each one has a unique ID. Events are linked to one or more interval--it uses the average resultant date if so, and the overlap of their ranges to determine error. Intervals are linked to one or more sources. I don't have to put events/intervals/sources in some logical row on a spreadsheet. I can just add new ones to the end, letting the database assign them a unique ID. I should be able to build an interface for inputting this info so that I don't have to add it directly to a table myself. From there it's a simple query to compile everything. And with all of the information in a database I should be able to do a lot of other cool stuff that would be harder to do in the original spreadsheet. For example, I'd like to see what happens if I filter out everything below some confidence threshold. Because the information is more transparent, and not put together by a chain of concatenations, I can do some other cool stuff like create links between an entry on the timeline and the source info. Here's an output from the (very much work in progress) new version I'm working on: All this to say, not much should change to the front end of the timeline. But there might be a bit more transparency/functionality, and inputting new data should be a cleaner process. Anything else to say? I don't think so. Feel free to ask questions though.
  8. So the end of Stormlight is gonna be the merge between Mistborn era 4 and Stormlight. Is there gonna be any series afterward that we know about?
  9. WoR chapter 74 Striding the Storm Kaladin & Shallan survive the highstorm together in the Chasms. Then in OB chapter 27 Playing Pretend While in Urithiru Adolin tells Shallan that Kaladin was the one that killed her brother, the shardbearer, Helaran. So how far apart did these two events occur? (From when Kaladin realizes it to when Shallan realizes it) I’m not great a timelines, but I know many of you out there are. @maxal if I recall correctly, you have a countdown going as to how long Adolin has been in Urithiru. I’m guessing that it’s been about a month between these two events — but that is just a wild guess. Please share your thoughts — I want to know! Thanks!
  10. My apologies if this has been asked and answered before, but how is there such a drastic difference on how fast technology advances on different shardworlds? Scadrial, for example, has seen leaps and bounds in technology since the fall of the final empire- whereas Roshar is roughly medieval in both its technology and social structure?
  11. Hey, first post, but I generally have had many discussions about the Cosmere before, and this is one of the more complicated possibilities that I have been working on. This is about the timeline of the books the difference in time between the first and second Mistborn era and an explanation for how Worldhoppers appear in different worlds that are hundereds of years apart. Before Mistborn era one, we have no real concise time slot for which each novel is separated by (with the exceition of the knowledge that it is probably thousands of years between white sands and Stormlight), either because they are consisting of only one or two books, or bc it isnt that important to the story. However, starting with the final empire a timeline is given, in that between the ascension of Sazed and the beginning of the Wax and Wayne era, about 1000 years have passed. In this period, the current Stormlight Archive and Warbreaker series fit. Knowing this, we can say that Hoid definitely lives longer than a normal human, but those humans that are now a part of the 17th shard, I find it hard to fathom that they are also near immortal as well that they can live for 1000s of years. Therefore it is possible that the time experienced by each system is different, which can be explained by the existence of a black hole near in the dwarf galaxy that each planetary system is in. The Theory of Relativity states that objects containing more mass cause greater distortions in spacetime, which causes the time experienced near the object to move slower that time farther away from the object. By having the Scadrial system be further out from the black hole, many thousands of years can pass for them, while only 40 or other small number of years would have passed. Not only that, but if we place our point of reference (earth POV) from a position that is less affected by the gravity of a supermassive object, then the canonized time that will probably be thousands of years long will be correct from an unwarped spacetime point of view. This reasoning can explain why Hoid so conveniently appears in every story appearing near the heart of the action. If he had been so close to action in the Scadrial system in the 1000 years between era one and two, a book or short story would have been made at least detailing his involvement. However, it appears that he had little involvement in any of the significant events that happened up until the Wax and Wayne novels, so maybe it was a thousand years for the Scadrial system but it was somewhere along the lines of 100 years instead. This theory is still very incomplete, so tell me if I missed something, thanks!
  12. Some time ago I've put together a timeline of books. I've decided to translate it to English and post it with sources, so I went and searched for the WoBs to put them in the timeline. I haven't found all of those I was using at the time (see the end of this post) but I've also found some I haven't seen before, so... profit? Enjoy. Order of series: Dragonsteel White Sand Elantris Mistborn First Era Warbreaker Stormlight Archive (first pentalogy) Mistborn Second Era Stormlight Archive (second pentalogy) Mistborn Third Era Mistborn Fourth Era ------------------------------------------- Order of the books: (Entries not bolded have not been released yet) Dragonsteel White Sand (before Elantris) Elantris & Hope of Elantris (long before Mistborn First Era, but not thousands of years) Emperor’s Soul (technology didn’t change since Elantris so probably not much more than decades #2) Eleventh Metal The Final Empire Well of Ascension Hero of Ages (341 years before Alloy of Law) Warbreaker (closer than farther to Way of Kings) (between HoA and WoK #1 #2 #3) Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell (in the latter part of timeline but before Way Of Kings: #1 #2, and FAQ – if it’s correct – says it’s after Warbreaker) Nightblood (we don’t know whether it’s after Shadows for Silence..., but it’s before Stormlight Archive) Way of Kings (happens 300ish years after Hero Of Ages) Words of Radiance Edgedancer Oathbringer Stormlight Archive, book four (Rhythm of War) Stormlight Archive, book five (about 15 years before Stormlight 6 but the gap may as well be 10 or 20 years #1 #2 #3 #4) Alloy of Law (341 years after Hero Of Ages)(it’s after Stormlight 5 but we don’t know if it’s before Stormlight 6. It could also be after Stormlight 7.) Shadows of Self (year after Alloy of Law) Bands of Mourning (half a year after Shadows of Self) Lost Metal Stormlight Archive, book six (about 15 years after Stormlight 5) Stormlight Archive, book seven Stormlight Archive, book eight Stormlight Archive, book nine Stormlight Archive, book ten Mistborn Third Era (modern times, around 80s)(probably roughly about 50 years after Second Era) Sixth of the Dusk (just before Mistborn Fourth Era #1) Mistborn Fourth Era (sci-fi) ------------------------------------------- WoBs I cannot find now but I'm sure they exist since when I was putting together this timeline I was strictly going off only WoBs: the gap between Stormlight 5 and 6 could be 20 years (specifically 20 years, 10 and 15 I have sourced already) Warbreaker being closer than farther to Way of Kings
  13. Hi guys, I just recived some interesting WoB from Brandon in his Oathbringer's update, I wanted to post them under the already opened topic in Stormlight's subforum...But some of this are from books other than Stormlight, therefore I think it's better to put them here (some mod may change or delete it, if I am wrong). Maybe a better format is required: Scadrial: Q: Can a Misting hurt himself burning the wrong metals or a bad alloy ? A: Not really, but they can swallow something they can't burn and end up with metal poisoning. Kind of similar. Q: Thanks for the answers...So we may tell that a Misting's Allomancy is "safer" than a Mistborn's one. Maybe because it's the original/natural way how Allomancy manifest itself (without godlike interferences) A: Sure, you could potentially say that. You can still make yourself sick, though, so I'm not sure. I guess it comes down to your definition of "hurt." But I'd call it safer, yes. Q: When someone Ascended with the Well, if He don't use the power and neither release it...Would He keep his status for long time ? A: No, unfortunately. Realmatic mechanisms: Q: Once someone refuses the call of the Beyond, may it change idea later ? (and reach the Beyond) Or is a one shot possibility ? A: It may change later Cosmere Timeline: Q: What is the event showed in the books, that are earlier in the Cosmere's Timeline ? (just to understand if WoK's prologue is before or after Elantris's event) A: I believe WoK prologue is before everything else you've seen. Some of the Dalinar flashbacks show scenes pretty early as well.
  14. This is a rough flow chart of what books Brandon has said he would like to create first. It's quite rough, and is subject to change as new information comes in. This is the order of series to be created according to Brandon during his last State of the Sanderson. Something tells me that some of the books like Nightblood won't be seeing the light of day for at least 7-8 years (mind you, that's compared to about 15 years for the average author, or 20 for Pat Rothfuss). Kind of downheartening. Please note, I WILL be editing this as new information comes in, so hopefully it won't be as bad as it can appear. A few quick notes: A = Alcatraz Series
  15. So I ordered the Hardcover of Shadows Beneath and asked Brandon this: Have we seen the ones above before they gained space flight and when does Sixth of It's (meant Sixth of Dusk) take place cosmere timeline wise? He Answered: Yes,+it is the most "future" you have seen. Question: Answer: So theres some small answers there for anyone who cares
  16. According to wiki, a rough chronological ordering of current Cosmere works is: Elantris and The Hope of Elantris The Emperor's Soul Mistborn Era 1 Warbreaker The Stormlight Archive Mistborn Era 2 Sixth of the Dusk, which is in the age of Era 4 Mistborn books, the science fiction trilogy But where does Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell fit in the above list? Is there any WoB regarding this? If not, any theories regarding it's timeline?
  17. Ok, I can't find it anywhere so I hope maybe someone can answer me. How much time passes between the Warbreaker and SA? If it's a wrong place to ask tell me and I'll do something with it.
  18. I was thinking about the scale of the Desolations. The Desolations were said to have the follow properties, chronogolistically: • There were apparently 99 Desolations • The Desolations last years, one as long as eleven • The Desolations destroyed 90% of the population • The Desolations often regressed a population back an era of technology or two (Iron Age to Stone) So, we know current Roshar is 4500 years since the last Desolation. Given the above facts, the minimum length we could expect the break between Desolations to take would be eleven years (assuming they do not overlap). More likely, we would expect them to have breaks of a several hundred years (in order to rebuild the population and to account for the loss of tech). That would mean, if there were 99, that the Desolations last for no less than 1100 years, and more likely somewhere between 20 000 and 100 000 years. That's just too long. My theory here is that - There were only nine Desolations, and that was distorted by history to become 99 (possibly through Vorin symmetry). Other than my gut feeling that people like Hoid and the Shards haven't been just sitting around derping for a hundred thousand years and then suddenly things got busy, I do have a little bit of evidence to support this claim. Supporting Points: (From myself and the many posters below!) In one of Dalinar's flashbacks, the time is referred to as the Eighth Epoch. At the time of the Eighth Epoch, there were Knights Radiant. We know from a certain slightly madman in Words of Radiance that the Knights Radiant were implemented late in the cycle of Desolations, long enough for the Heralds to become both used to and fed up of rebuilding society, but not so early that the Radiants were able to preserve enough knowledge to advance them past the Iron Age. This suggests that there were in fact, nine Desolations, with Dalinar's vision occurring during the eighth. The time between each Desolation was considered an 'Epoch'. With only nine desolations, even at 1000 years in between each Desolation, we only hit 9000 years. Which is a fairly acceptable number, comparatively. I say 1000 because, well, 10 is very Rosharan after all! The Desolations were devastating enough to reset the technology level an era, for example, from Iron Age to Bronze or Stone Age. This was revealed to us by the person called Taln in WoR, who mentions a number of things that indicates first hand knowledge of the Desolations. He also indicates that they have some time prior to the arrival of the Desolation. This means that each Desolation must take at least enough time between them to lose a tech level (normally takes a thousand years or so to tech up at that point in history - presumably not all knowledge would be lost so shorter than that). And the Desolations must be at least Devastating enough that it wouldn't be unusual for the entire world to lose a thousand years of technological progress - no mean feat, and probably entails huge damage to the population and infrastructure which they would need time to recover from. The idea of large gaps are supported by Taln's torture. "Taln" withstood 4500 years of torture at ten times the usual intensity. And at that point, Odium has had all the previous times between Desolations to develop his torturing abilities to their max. It would be insane if the Heralds can't withstand at least 450 years when Taln took on ten times that, in both duration and intensity. (PorridgeBrick) It's incredibly hard to rebuild when infrastructure is entirely gone. Consider the fall of Rome. After the Germanic tribes sacked everything, incredible amounts of technology were lost, some of it forever, and the Dark Ages started. The people at that time all knew of the technology that was possible: they'd been the ones using it, some of them building it. That knowledge wasn't passed on. There was neither the economy, governance, nor resources to supply using that technological knowledge. And in this sort of preindustrial society, knowledge is passed down by family lines or apprenticeship. Kill off a family, you kill off the secrets of their trade. In bad times, all you do is try to feed your family. You don't care about spreading your knowledge, preserving technology. Now, let's apply this to the Desolations. They'd literally just learned bronze-working. This wasn't all that widely known, presumably: there's only so much one man can do to teach an entire population in a small time span. And everything was just ruined. Their population has been ravaged. Their farms to supply food, their mines to supply metal, their men sent off to fight in the war, all are decimated. The Heralds can't exactly stay long: they can't risk sending another Desolation. These people are going to be desperate. They're not in the situation to technologically innovate, or even preserve. They're back in the Stone Age, hunter-gatherer societies. It takes time to regrow populations, to rebuild civilization. This again leans towards longer Desolation breaks. (PorridgeBrick) Brandon consistently offers unreliable in world information, and we know the Vorins tampered with historical texts and accounts in a variety of places. The unlikeliness of the Desolations lasting hundreds of thousands of years provides an indication that they may be one of those unreliable accounts. Roshar is full of the number 10. The True Desolation being the tenth Desolation would work very well. There is also probably more to the Heralds leaving at exactly the number they did (either 9th or 99th) than just 'they were tired'. Because 99 or 9 are both immediately prior to the number 10 (or ten tens). This is another indication that there is something more going on with the Desolation count and the Oathpact breaking than we are being told. The Vorins add symmetry to all sorts of things for kicks. Notably, the Herald's names all got symmetrified. Converting nine to ninety-nine to have a more symmetrically pleasing number is not outside the realm of possibility for a religious organization that wants to make everything symmetrical and is changing historical accounts to do so. Having the Desolations last hundreds of thousands of years is really too long. We know Adonalsium shattered, and that sometime after that Honor, Cultivation, and humans arrived on Roshar. In the meantime, Odium has been around, and Hoid has been doing things, and there was the seventeeth shard. Did those organizations and people really sit around and do nothing for 100k years and then all of the sudden, Hoid starts searching, Odium starts breaking other shards, and the 17th becomes active, all during the span of a couple thousand years? Seems unlikely. I'm not even sure the Heralds could stay sane after 100k years of torture. In Dalinar's vision in the chapter Starfall, where he talks with the two Radiants and fights the Midnight Essence, his 'wife' implies there hasn't been a Desolation in her life-time, which I'm assuming is ~30 years old. However, there's still some sort of legend or history regarding Desolations, so the memory hasn't faded completely--meaning to me that one has happened within the last 5 generations (150 years). Even if we assume that there's generally 100 years from the start of one Desolation until the start of the next, that's still a good ~10,000 years this has been going on. Tempus's argument that 100k years is too long for anyone to not do anything about it is very reasonable and nearly as applicable to a much smaller number (like 10-20k years) as well. (kaellok) One possibility for length - 4500 years since the last Desolation. 4500 is a perfect multiple of nine. 500 each. If this True Desolation is the tenth Desolation, well, what we're looking at here is another symbolic clue based off the Roshar love of ten, and could place each Desolation gap at 500 years. This is by no means a certain deduction, it could just be general symbolism and non-indicative, but were this to hold true, 99 Desolations would have been about fifty thousand years, but nine would be the nicely symmetrical 4500. It's not conclusive, but is another small shred to add to the symmetry and symbolic tens pile.
  19. Are we any farther on constructing a timeline that captures each setting so far and tries to relate them? Are we far enough along in the cosmere to figure a little of that out? I checked the Coppermind Chronology, but it seems pretty bare.