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Found 19 results

  1. How big are the ghost bloods? Mraize said they are most powerful organization in the cosmere, implying that they are immense. Mraize also gives us a chain of command. Mraize -> Iyatil -> Thaidakar This either means that Mraize is very high up in the Ghostbloods, or they aren’t that big. Which is it?
  2. This Theory is based on the fact that we know that Thaidakar in Kelsier, what we already know of the Ghostbloods intent and sorta the spiritweb. So the first point i would like to make is about what we already know of their intent as an organization. We already know that they want a convenient source of investiture. second, we know that Kelsier likes to help people. Third Wit made an interesting jab at Kel. He said something along the lines of take care of your planet before you meddle on others. Well what if that is what he is doing? What if the stormlight is meant to alter the spiritweb of a person enough to make them a full misborn or feruchemist. This can lead to other bigger implications but i won't get into those now. I would appreciate feedback positive and negative since it is my first theory.
  3. Hello! Just about halfway through my reread of Rhythm of War and some information sort of jumped out to me that I hadn't connected before. I think that Thaidakar has actually been off of Scadrial and visited other planets--in both the cognitive and physical realms. His dilemma isn't necessarily how to travel and exist in different worlds--he's figured that out already--but rather the other common theory as to what his motives are--curbing the insanity that comes with immortality. Two excerpts from RoW and one WoB are fueling this theory. (1). During the final paragraph of Chapter 64 in RoW, Hoid reveals that not only does he know Kelsier (the more obvious tidbit, via Secret History), but that he's met him several times on different worlds: “I believe it is time,” Wit said, “that I told you about Thaidakar.” “I know of him,” Jasnah said. “Oh, you think you do,” he said. “But I’ve met him, several times. On other planets, Jasnah" (p.761 Kindle Edition). This suggests that Kelsier does not have a problem getting off-world, and we already know he's been able to manifest himself on at least Scadrial through the BoM/SH reveal. (2). During the epigraph of the very same chapter, Raboniel reveals that chains from Threnody have the ability to "...anchor a person through Cognitive anomalies" and expresses that she "...fails to see what use this it could be to [her], as [she is] unable to leave the Rosharan system" (p. 751 Kindle Edition). So we know there exists some other ways for someone like Thaidakar to perhaps anchor himself--or his Connection--to systems he is non-native to (this being a big problem for highly-invested entities, something Vasher confirmed while talking Realmaic Theory with Kaladin). Hoid further confirms the notion that Thaidakar might have found a way to travel AND exist in foreign realms/planets by revealing to the reader that he has in fact met with him on other planets. I believe Brandon is being deliberate in denoting that Hoid and Thaidakar have met or had their run-ins on the actual, physical planets, rather than having Hoid say that he's met him in a more ambiguous manner or locations, ie. in just the Cognitive Realm. Thaidakar still cannot gain access to Roshar--which is where the key to his final problem, curbing his insanity, might lie. (3). This might be why Brandon stated in a WoB that if given the opportunity to punch another Shard (the other being Ruin's vessel in SH), Kelsier would "...find it really fun to punch Honor. Really fun" (Orem signing — Arcanum - 2017-12-21). Access to the Rosharan system might be one of the only or few planets (and all of their magics and artifacts) that he's unable to gain access to and it just might hold the key to solving his dilemma (something that has yet to be revealed to us readers)--and is ultimately why he wants to punch Honor (or a representative, or whatever) in the face. I'm not sure how novel these connections are that I've made, but upon my reread of RoW I realized I hadn't spotted just how obvious of clues we were given in respect to Thaidakar and the Ghostbloods operations, way before the Thaidakar reveal near the end of the novel. The fact that the chapter starts and ends with those two excerpts only solidifies the connection between what Raboniel writes in the Epigraph and what Hoid reveals to Jasnah. Be gentle, this is my first post.
  4. I only recently noticed I hadn't updated my favourite Story-theory yet with the new Dawnshard/RoW Knowledge, so here goes. TL; DR: Kelsier will try to reforge and become Ambition. Collecting enough of Ambitions Investiture will enable him to ascend to Shardhood. So, RoW answered atleast some of my thoughts about what Kel would get up to. It also fed into my theory, so it's time to dig that up again. First, the arguments that still hold: (New Arguments at the bottom) - He tasted Ascension with Preservation. And now that he knows that's a thing that is possible, it seems like a worthy goal to keep himself busy with. - Hoid seems to be interested in keeping the Shards from gaining too much power and keeping them seperated. Kelsier hates him. Would be fun to have them square off in that kind of way, especially with Hoid as the MC of Mistborn Era 4 You might ask: But why specifically Ambition? - At the end of Secret History, Vin asks Kelsier an important question about his motivation. We're lead to believe that Kelsier will look inside himself and realize that she was right and his vendetta against the Lord Ruler was more about himself than the Skaa or Scadrial. From RoW, we can gather that he probably accepted that and doubled down on it - see Thaidakar. We saw that Preservations Intent and Kelsier's personality were too different. Of all the shards we know, Ambition would fit him really well. He's insanely ambitious, going so far as to think up a way to overthrow an - as far as he knew - immortal Emperor. He punched multiple gods. And he created a multiple-world-spanning secret Organisation. If that isn't ambitious, I don't know what is. - Additionally, according to my Understanding, Ambition is one of the, if not the, least limiting Intents. With all we've read about Ruin corrupting Ati, Odium and Honor and Preservation etc limiting their Vessels, Ambition is... not really like that. I'm sure there some zany stuff there, but I doubt becoming Ambition would hinder Kelsiers Megalomania, if anything it would further increase it. And it wouldn't bind him to anything stupid like Oaths or whatever, which he definitely wouldn't want. But there's more hints towards my theory. - Foreshadowing (pun intended). When Kelsier encountered the Ire, they mentioned Threnody Shades. As Kelsier is a Cognitive Shadow, their Alerter Fabrial picked up on him. I believe that this might be more than fanservice for those of us who read Shadows for Silence. Threnody is the one planet we know where Investiture from Ambition "landed" in large chunks. It's already connected to Cognitive Shadows, and the names of the planets in the Threnodite system are all the names of Songs of Mourning - and Kelsier is dead ( also as in "The Bands of Mourning", which Kelsier used) - Threnody and Sel are the only other two planets that Kelsier canonically knew as of the end of secret history. Putting himself in opposition of the Ire, it wouldn't be too far fetched that he would have investigated what it is that these very knowledgable people are trying to contain that they confused him with. Not a far stretch imho. It seems that on Roshar, the Ghostbloods already have plan and directive, so I assume Kelsier already has had some kind of plan by the time they set up on Roshar. - Ambition was splintered, but unlike Dominion and Devotion. While we know that Odium stuffed those two in the Cognitive Realm to make sure they wouldn't be picked up again, as far as we know he didn't know how to do that yet when he finished off Ambition outside the Threnodite system. So while Ambition is probably spread out in dead chunks of Investiture, someone ambitious enough with a lot of time could try to collect those. - Additionally, Edgli (Endowment) seemed to think that Ambitions last Vessel would've been trouble, and seems glad that she's gone. From different WoB's we know that Sazed's ascension has caused quite a stir, so Kelsier could definitely take up the troublemaking mantle of Uli Da very well. Alright, time for the new arguments and thoughts: Two things are majorly important: - The Ghostbloods are looking for ways to transport Investiture. Ba-Ado-Mishram, Gems, Stormlight... Aside from trying to find a way for their Master to actually move beyond Scadrial, they are looking for ways to transport Investiture. Sure, Money and Power are good motivators, but I think there's a second reason for that: Moving Chunks of Ambition. What would this do for them? Well... Douglas What about a lerasium savant? Or would that require so much lerasium that the person attempting it would ascend to become a new Shardholder? Brandon Sanderson Basically, this is what Ascension is. 17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012) I imagine the Plan to go something like this: Step 1: Find a way to store most of the big chunks of Ambition's Investiture. I assume it's not all in the form of Shades, so imagine Gems and whatever stuffed full of Investiture - if necessary, Step 2: Convert it into a Form Thaidakar can use. If Raboniel and Navani can figure out Light physics, I'm sure people in Silverlight or other Scholars somewhere are able to do so too. I'd be surprised if the Ghostbloods didn't have some smart Cosmere Scientists on their Payroll. Convert all that Investiture into solid form: a metal. Uli Dum/Ambitium - Step 3: Kelsier burns massive amounts of Ambitium or an Ambitium/Lerasium Alloy, preferrably physically close to Threnody, somewhere in the system. Once he has burnt enough of it, Kelsier ascends to Ambition. The Investiture that hasn't been collected hopefully realigns itself to its new Vessel, and Kel is a Shard now. Aside from those reasons, just think of how absolutely fitting this would be for Kelsiers Story, both in-universe and Meta, for us readers. Kelsier, the Survivor, survives the most deadly place on Scadrial, the pits of Hathsin, under the rule of an "immortal god-emperor", spiting said Emperor. He goes on to challenge that Emperor, and while dying in the Process, deifies himself as The Survivor, sparking both the Revolt that finally took down the Lord Ruler and a Religion around himself. He Survives Death, and goes on to help out at the other very deadly part of Scadrial, the South, and also kinda becomes the god of the people there after helping them survive. Notice a pattern? What better than to do this a third time? The Survivor, a kinda-ghost kinda-god, focusses his attention on the deadliest planet in the known universe, Threnody. If any one people in the Cosmere is doing more surviving than the South Scadrians, it's definitely the people on Threnody. (Try to tell me Kelsier wouldn't like Silence Montane.) After the disaster of Ruin and Preservation and the prophecy, Scadrial needed a god like Harmony to rest and stabilize under. Threnodys woes aren't over, however. What they need is a fighter god, someone able to take on the Evil. Someone who embodies the Will to Survive that Threnodians need, and the Ambition to pull through with it, to take up a fight this hopeless. a ghost-god that's already fought one immortal evil fits into Threnody well, and it would fit so well into Kelsiers story to do his shtick a third time: Help people survive and become their god. Only this time, it would actually be true, and he'd ascend to Shardhood.
  5. BIG SECRET HISTORY SPOILERS AND BASICALLY EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE COSMERE!!!! (but I think the RoW section is still the best place for it) I didn't know what to title this, because I don't want to spoil anything for anyone scrolling past, but the real title is, "Why is everyone hating on Kelsier?" I guess I am still sorting out my feelings and recovering from the shock of discovering that Kelsier was Thaidakar weeks after reading it, so basically I don't know what I think. However, I don't think that Kelsier is that bad of a person. I think he was at his worst during book 1, and only got better throughout that book, and through SH. All the shardcast people keep saying how much they hate Kelsier, or they like him as a character, but think he could easily be the main villain of the Cosmere. I love shardcast, I disagree with them on this point. I don't think that the Ghostbloods are doing good things. Killing people isn't good, but in Cosmere books killing lots of people doesn't make them a villain (Dalinar, Vin, to name a few). Starting (or joining) the Ghostbloods feels like a very Kelsier thing to do, but I feel like he is not a bad person. Who saved Scadrial from the Ire and Ruin? Who saved the southern Scadrians after Sazed totally screwed them over? Kelsier. I don't know. What do you guys think? Is Kell good or bad, especially considering that he is freaking Thaidakar? Maybe you guys can help me sort out my thoughts and feelings.
  6. So, recently was thinking back on Brandon's description of the Ghostbloods while talking with the 17th shard. To summarize very very briefly, Brandon mentioned that the people drawn to Kelsier's organization are very cut throat and competitive (much like their leader). However, those that Kelsier handpicks or directly oversea tend to be more along the lines of what we saw in era 1. So, A thought I had was that the organization draws people more innately like Kelsier. Yet, the ones he prefers to serve under him are more like his old crew in that they serve as the brakes to his acceleration. As we saw a lot in the first mistborn book Dox, Ham, Breeze, and Clubs all worked hard to curtail some of Kelsier's worst traits. Now given Kelsier's obvious comfort with his own insanity and his egotism I think he is doubtful to try and work very hard to change that. So instead he essentially hires people out to be his own conscience. Particularly given his natural inclination to like innately good people even while not being one himself. Afterword Thank you to those who read this. Kind of random but I guess I am feeling the withdrawal of cosmere content and wanted to voice some thoughts. If you have comments, contradictions, or just wish to talk more I encourage you to comment. Hope you all have a great day, night, etc. Just keep in mind, "There's always another secret."
  7. Spoilers All Cosmere This is just some crazy tinfoil idea that I had. I've long had a pet theory that Kelsier was connected to another Shard. He has such commitment to his ideals that it speaks of great Intent. He comes off as cocky and self-interested but his willingness to sacrifice himself - and pursue his ideals even thereafter! - shows the depth of his devotion. I used to think that, if he was influenced by a shard, it was probably Bavadin. Her penchant for Investing herself into Avatars is well known. Kelsier's anti-authoritarianism seems pretty Autonomous. And Kel's immidiate antipathy towards Hoid seems rather as if he "has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of" our favorite flautist. This seems a little hard to square with his becoming a ruler (the Sovereign) on Scadrial, and a leader (Thaidakar) to the Ghostbloods. But it's possible. Perhaps there is no greater autonomy than sovereignty. Kelsier created the Bands of Mourning, an artifact so powerful as to grant its user quite a bit of "freedom and self-direction." But of all the questions about the Bands of Mourning, one gets a little lost: Why are they so named? I don't believe that the eponymous book gives an answer. But another text may: Shadows For Silence In The Forest Of Hell. Shadows for Silence is set on the planet Threnody, namesake of the Threnodite system. The other planets in that system include Monody and Elegy. A threnody is "a wailing lament composed or performed as a memorial to a dead person." Both a monody and an elegy are "poems lamenting a person's death." All three of these are examples of mourning. There's no Shard in the Threnodite system now. We know that several Shards were once there - Odium, Ambition, and Mercy. A "wail for the dead" doesn't speak much of Ambition, and though it is Passionate it doesn't really feel like "God's own hatred." Mercy? "Compassion or forgiveness shown toward someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm." That doesn't sound much like a death-song - and it sounds nothing like Kelsier. In the Threnodite system, then, one of two things seems likely. The first possibility is that the planets are named for some other Shard. Perhaps this is one of the two we haven't encountered - maybe it is the Shard of Grief? Maybe Memory? The second possibility is that this system was created, or at least deeply touched, by all three of the shards which once resided there: Odium, Ambition, and Mercy. What do you get when you mix striving, passion, and forgiveness? I think that you would get the creation, of a song, of mourning. Perhaps Kelsier is touched by something from these worlds. Kelek's Breath but there are enough Cognitive Shadows running around Threnody! And we know that the Selish Ire have set up pickets around Scadrial's subastral specifically to prevent Threnodite Shades from coming through via Shadesmar. And we know that Kelsier had a deeply transformative experience when he was enslaved in the Pits of Hathsin - the Lord Ruler's prison, the source of all atium, but also a Perpendiculatiry. Maybe a Shade got through the Ire's picket and touched Kelsier. Maybe it was more than one of the apparently simple-minded Shades we see in Shadows for Silence. Perhaps all of the Shades of Threnody contain portions of the three Shards we know were present there. Maybe they contain an especially large portion of Ambition, since Uli Da was the one so wounded there. One part hatred, three parts self-striving, and one part "a desire to relieve suffering." ...that sounds a lot like Kelsier to me.
  8. Really more of a Mistborn topic, but it’s going here for obvious reasons. Withe recent revelations there’s been a theory that Thaidakar is a word in Skaa, possibly just Survivor translated. I disagree. I think Thaidakar is a Terris word. Absinthew Idashwy Axindweth Tathingdwen Vwafendel Tenningdar Thaidakar The title fits very neatly with the three syllable Terris words and names. It doesn’t match up nearly as well with words in Skaa, which tend to follow French-like linguistics. Thematically, it makes a certain amount of sense for Kelsier to have a title in all three major languages: Survivor in Skaa and Sovereign in the Southern Tongue, with Thaidakar coming from Terris. It’s similar to him seemingly utilizing all three metallic arts and using a triple diamond symbol. Of course, if it is Terris, WHY Terris? And what does the word mean? Thoughts?
  9. NOTE: This post contains some spoilers for the story "The Emperor's Soul" and the Mistborn books including Secret History I recently started rereading some of the other Cosmere books after RoW (Elantris, Mistborn, portions of Arcanum Unbounded). After reading "The Emperor's Soul" I have come to a conclusion that I sure hope is true. After the big reveal in Rhythm of War regarding Thaidakar's identity, I am convinced that Shai is going to turn up as a Ghostblood. There are a few reasons for this: 1) Shai is the perfect crew member for Kelsier - Kelsier has a penchant for gathering specialists in every arena, and no one is a greater specialist in Forging than Shai. Even beyond using the actual magical skill of Forging, she is stunningly skilled in overall forgery and subterfuge of many types that would deeply interest Kel. 2) Like Kel, Shai has issues with Hoid - We know from "The Emperor's Soul" that Shai ended up being captured in the first place because Hoid sold her out (as the Imperial Fool, aka Wit 1.0) in order to steal the Moon Scepter, a sort of key to access all of the investiture related powers on Sel. She is on a mission to hunt him down. We know Kel & Hoid also have potential unfinished business after their volatile confrontation at The Well of Ascension. The enemy of my enemy is my friend--Kel & Shai are natural allies. 3) Sel might be the easiest planet for Kel to worldhop to--or at least meet Shai from - I say "easy" with caution due to the dangerous nature of worldhopping to Sel (due to the investiture storm caused by the splinters of Devotion & Dominion in the cognitive realm), but we know from Secret History that the IRE were able to set up a base (theoretically connected to the Dor somehow--long extension cord? ) on the edge of Scadrial's portion of Shadesmar. This begs the question if Scadrial is "close" to Sel's Shadesmar. We still don't know how someone would worldhop to Sel, but it seems reasonable that either A) Kel might have figured out how to do so, B ) He at least got to Sel's Shadesmar zone (perhaps to some sort of safe haven there?), or C) Shai managed to worldhop somehow and they met elsewhere. Addendum: We know the Ghostbloods have connections on Sel. It is also significant that Mraize has a Seon which further connects them to that world. 4) They share a unique connection in their scars - It really stood out to me this time that Shai shares a unique trait with Kel--the arm scars left on her by the Bloodsealer's cuts. She was cut every single day over the course of around 90-something days. Kel's title as Lord of Scars may be a point of interesting connection with Shai. 5) She would make quite the formidable foil to Shallan - The similarities between forgery and both lightweaving & soulcasting are striking. Shai is a considerable con-artist even without Forgery, but if she & or Kel were to figure out how to overcome the connection problem with Sel (something we already know Kel is interested in and may have figured out related to the discovery of those Nicrosil excisor medallions), she might be able to access Forgery to a limited degree off-world. Shai and Shallan are both artists, both talented at disguise, and both have the ability to affect the souls of objects in different ways. With Shallan having potentially allied with Wit rather than Thaidakar, a conflict could be very interesting. 6) We know that Brandon has confirmed Shai will show up again--potentially as a worldhopper - The Cosmere has grown much more complex since some of the big reveals in Rhythm of War. Of all the various factions at work among the Cosmere-aware, the Ghostbloods seems the most likely one to match Shai's skills and personality as opposed to the 17th Shard, IRE, etc. We know she's showing up again--while anything can happen, this theory seems like a strong possibility. What are your thoughts? Any other connections (or things I totally missed)?
  10. This is the first post this long that I make here, and it probably sounds weird, but it's because I'm using Google Translate and my language is Spanish. Well, I've seen that for quite some time now, Kelsier has earned a reputation as a "psychopath" and a "villain", even affirmed by Brandon himself. But being more objective, I feel like that reputation is undeserved, although I agree that Kell is self-centered and an anti-hero because of his circumstances. Getting to the point, some examples of why Kelsier can't be a psychopath are: * He hates nobles (as Marsh hates obligators) because they murdered his mother when they found out that she was a skaa and not a noble. Killing so many nobles may have been ruthless, but really Kelsier had that hatred because he loved his mother, and it's no different than Kaladin's hatred for lighteyes due to the death of Tien and the people he couldn't protect, and Kal is not a psychopath for it (he suffers from depression but it is something radically different). * Kelsier really loves his friends, he is uncompromisingly loyal and literally went to his death to protect his friends (Spook, OreSeur and the other prisoners). * Kelsier really loved Mare, he always says it and it shows that it is true, an example of this is the beginning of Eleventh Metal (destroyed by her death) and then in a couple of conversations with Vin at TFE. A psychopath CANNOT love, and when he is with someone, he does it for convenience and thanks to manipulations, since he has a total lack of empathy. * Kelsier's powers as Mistborn appeared from the pain of Mare's death. * Kelsier really admires good people, according to WoB, although Kell is not quite a good person, but none of that means he is a psychopath and Dark Lord. * Kelsier feels guilty when Vin was nearly killed by the inquisitors at Kredik Shaw, and a psychopath cannot feel guilty for his actions. * Kelsier feels pain and sadness for the deaths of the army in TFE, then for the deaths of Dockson and Elend, and also for the comments of Ati before going to the Ire fortress. In particular, he feels pain, sadness and anger over the supposed death of Marsh, whom he loved for being his brother despite their differences (situation and subsequent revenge similar to what happened with his mother). * After Vin was nearly killed by the inquisitors at Kredik Shaw, we are emphasized a million times that Kelsier became a much more thoughtful and better person, reaching the point where he did not kill nobles indiscriminately, saved the Elend's life and after Secret History, we see that he stopped having that hatred with which he killed nobles. * According to Vin, when she and Kelsier visited skaa in the evenings, she felt that Kelsier genuinely loved and cared about skaa, and she probably did with Southerners as well. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Brandon's work and in general I agree and impressed with the construction of his characters, but Kelsier's bad reputation seems undeserved, and besides, there are main characters with actions that are as questionable or more despicable than Kelsier, for example: * Wax feels no guilt in killing criminals. * Kaladin had a fierce hatred of lighteyes, which he overcame, just as Kelsier largely overcame his hatred of nobles. * Vin didn't feel guilty about killing koloss and inquisitors (although she did feel guilty about doing extreme killings, like the one she did with Zane), but herself, she was also an assassin. * Elend felt no guilt in killing enemy koloss, inquisitors, and soldiers, plus in HoA he became a (but necessary) tyrant. * Marsh hated obligors in a similar way to Kelsier with nobles (said by Marsh himself in TFE). * And finally the most questionable of all, Dalinar. He was literally a tyrant and genocidal, he killed thousands and thousands of people to unify Aletzkhar, even burning an entire city, killing hundreds of people in each battle and enjoying the bloodbath (The Thrill is not an excuse, it is not like Ruin controlling the inquisitors, but rather like emotional allomancy, nothing to do with a control of people but igniting something they already feel). Dalinar is a great character but Kelsier did not kill a small part of what Dalinar did, who is not a psychopath and is redeemed despite carrying thousands and thousands of deaths on his back. I also don't think that the fact that Kelsier is a Cognitive Shadow makes him a villain, evil, or psychopath. He's only been around for 300 years and in the comfort of Scadrial. While, that the Cognitive Shadows that are crazy are the Heralds due to THOUSANDS of years of torture in Braize, in addition to that they have been 7000 years old, and Kelsier only 300 which is only about 5% that the Heralds. I really like that Kelsier is the leader of the Ghostbloods, I think his crew was the antecedent of the organization, and that after the Catacendre and Spook bringing Kelsier to the Physical Realm with hemalurgy, the first Ghostbloods were Kell and Spook as leaders, Ham, Breeze, Allrianne, Beldre, Cett, Noorden, maybe Yomen and Marsh, and probably Felt. (Also, that would leave us with that The Set is a reaction to the Ghostbloods, and that in Scadrial both organizations have a feud like the Ghostbloods with the Sons of Honor in Roshar). The problem is that Mraize is despicable and that if Kelsier were in Roshar, the Ghostbloods would be less questionable, but hey, Mraize's actions DO NOT DEFINE the entire organization or Kelsier himself. In closing, I thank those who have read this far. I think Kelsier is seen as "evil" right now but remember that the information is given by two really questionable people and they are probably worse than Kelsier: Kalak and our beloved Cephandrius. I hope Brandon amazes us with Kelsier's handling of Stormlight 5, Wax and Wayne 4, and Mistborn Era 3, and that he applies the Lord of the Scars mantra. There is always another secret.
  11. RoW spoilers within One fine day, in a lavish manor on the lovely world of Eddings, three tricksters gathered. There they came to a decision that was to them of little consequence, but of great import to the multiverse and all who dwelled therein. For on this day Prince Kheldar of Drasnia, David Xanatos of New York, and Kelsier of Scadrial, determined to rob the multiverse, for the sole purpose of alleviating their collective boredom. Chaos and Mayhem ensue as the grand tapestry upon which all stories written and unwritten dwell was promptly torn to shreds. And so we begin. The first target: The world of Harry Potter. Silk (aka. Prince Kheldar), native of Drasnia on Eddings, the world of the Belgariad. Quick witted and sharp tongued, he’s his nation’s greatest spy and he’s helped save the world twice. The richest man on his homeworld, he’s married to fellow spy Velvet (aka. Liselle) and has a young child. His half brother, Urgit, is the king of Murgos and his cousin Kheva is King of Drasnia. Played by @Lecky Twig David Xanatos, native of New York on Earth-G, the world of Gargoyles. A suave and wealthy businessman, he has few morals and fewer compunctions, particularly when pursuing power. Currently nominally on the side of good, after an extended period of villainy. Inventor of the Xanatos Gambit (TM), he is happily to married to fellow trickster Fox, and has a young son, Alexander. He is aided and abetted by his loyal servant, Owen. Played by @Narcoleptic Axolotl Kelsier, native of pre-Catascande Scadrial in the Cosmere, the starcluster where Mistborn, Stormlight and several other Sanderson stories take place. (But you know this, don’t you? You should; this IS the 17th Shard.) Charming and charismatic, he’s been a conman, a revolutionary, a god, and currently runs his universe’s version of the mafia. He’s also trapped on his homeworld, much to his annoyance. Played by me, Kingsdaughter613. I’m putting this here because obviously we’re going to bring up the Kelsier - Thaidakar thing. Once the spoiler period is over this can be moved to the RP boards (or earlier, if the mods say it’s okay.) If anyone would like to join you are welcome to PM me. You are welcome to offer to play various characters in the different worlds the trio visits, members of their respective supporting casts, or additional tricksters - if you can convince me that they’re of a similar bent as these three dastards. @Lecky Twig We’re in Silk’s home, so you get to start us off.
  12. The Ghostbloods make an offer - and woe betide those who think they can refuse. Top, from left to right: Mraize, Iyatil, Kelsier, Spook Bottom: Shallan The cat is a random cat Kelsier picked up outside. Bonus points to those who know their Godfather lore. (Do I think Kell being the Godfather of the Cosmere mafia is both awesome and totally fitting for the character? Yes. Yes, I do.)
  13. Does anyone know who Thaidakar's master is? In RoW Mraiz talks about how his master is Thaidakar but he also has a master. Thaidakar being a cognitive shadow really the only higher rank would be godhood. Which would also mean that the ghostbloods are ruled by a god. Any thoughts?
  14. Am I allowed to put this in the gallery? I was inspired by the end sheets of SA and thought it would be interesting to draw (hypothetical) religious art from Scadrial and Nalthis depicting Kelsier and Warbreaker. Not complete, but you should be able to see the issue. That’s marewill, btw, not the GB symbol. But I do headcannon the GB symbol as stylized marewill. Warbreaker will not be an issue, as none of his picture elements include spoilers beyond Warbreaker (the book).
  15. So I just noticed this. In part one Mraize and Shallan are talking and we get this conversation: “Iyatil has reported to Master Thaidakar,” Mraize said, “and he has accepted—after some initial anger—that we will not be able to control the Oathgates. I explained that there at least is a calming wind in this, like the riddens of a storm. With Dalinar controlling the Oathgates, he can prosecute the war against Odium.” “And that helps your cause?” “We have no interest in seeing the enemy rule this world, Shallan. Master Thaidakar wishes only to secure a method for gathering and transporting Stormlight.” Mraize held his broam up again. Like a miniature sun beside the real one. Then in Part Five we have this: “Perhaps. Can you handle my master? Can you handle her master?” “Thaidakar?” Shallan guessed. “Ah, so you’ve heard of him?” Yes, Mraize. You only mentioned him several times. More seriously... That comment makes no sense. Of COURSE Shallan has heard about Thaidakar; Mraize name dropped him TWICE when sending her on this mission. And why is Shallan ‘guessing’? She knows Iyatil reports to Thaidakar. Beta readers, do you know if this was noticed and kept in intentionally? Because it’s a pretty big inconsistency. If it isn’t an accident, which it probably isn’t, then I have a couple of guesses. Shallan guessing: she suspects Mraize is referring to Thaidakar, but wants to be certain. So it’s an educated guess. Or the word guess was in error, but that’s a fairly minor one. Mraize’s statement: he’s drawing attention away from what he just said. He wasn’t referring to Thaidakar as Iyatil’s master, but another high ranking GB on Roshar. It was a slip, and Shallan just gave him the perfect way to cover it up. Notice how quick he is to let her know Thaidakar isn’t actually on Roshar. Thoughts?
  16. So after letting the revelations from Rhythm of War settle in my head for a few days, and reading some of the discussion on here, I had a thought about the “Lord of Scars.” Rather than Thaidakar literally being Kelsier, is it possible that Autonomy/whoever Trell is is coopting Kelsier’s authority or one of his many cults in the same way that Trellism appears to have been coopted in Mistborn Era 2? That would make a few things make more sense to me, and seems to fit the MO of “Trell.” Known problems with this theory: The description of someone with a “similar ailment” to the Heralds doesn’t seem to fit anyone but a Cognitive Shadow. Unless Autonomy wants Kelsier off Scadrial as well, which could be happening I guess. Also, Wit/Hoid seems to think it’s actually Kelsier, from what he told Shallan, and he seems to be actively undermining the Sovereign’s attempts at secrecy in Bands of Mourning, so it kind of seems like it might just be him. But I thought this was at least worth mentioning, since Hoid is not omniscient and could probably be fooled by, say, a Shard on occasion. So given those issues, this is probably more complex than the facts need to actually be. I do still like the thought that maybe they’re involved or related to each other in some way. I can’t see Kelsier, as we knew him, just allowing a foreign influence to invade Scadrial (in the form of Trell) if he knew about it, unless he was okay with that power’s goals somehow.
  17. Does it say anywhere? I've been wondering... and then this morning I came across this WoB: If Kell took over rather than creating them from scratch... I feel that would explain a lot.
  18. [Spoilers All] This started on Reddit, but since I've discovered this incredible site, I thought I'd bring it over here. Apologies if I'm doing this wrong, etc. Strongly appreciate corrections and feedback; I am only so realmatically aware :-) In a nutshell: I am starting to see the goals of a lot of the non-Shardic players in the Cosmere as: searching for a way to transport Investiture between Shardworlds. This is particularly apparent in The Ghostbloods. In Rhythm of War, I read Mraize's statement to Shallan as this: the goal of the Ghostbloods is to assure the persistence of Kelsier's Cognitive Shadow. As Kelek says, the persistence of a Cog requires Investiture. And it makes sense that Kel doesn't have much access to that. For a Cog to access Investiture, it needs any one of the following: -granted it directly by a Shard -on a Shardworld where lots of free investiture is available -on a Shardworld with investiture accessible, and sufficiently Connected to that world to access it -brought Investiture from such a source to it Our boi The Survivor comes up short on all counts: Kel could get some Investiture from the Shard(s) on Scadrial. But this seems unlikely. On the one hand, there's Harmony's growing tendency towards inaction in general; and on the other, I don't know if Sazed would Invest in our psychotic little Survivebro even if he could. He is on Scadrial. The amount of available Investiture there is simply very small - not even as a Mistborn. And as we learned in Secret History, he can't just wander off a-worldhoppin'. Either because the Investiture he has is too Connected to Scadrial to leave, or because he doesn't have enough to overcome this problem; I'm not sure. And a mechanism for bringing free Investiture from one Shardworld to another, has, I believe, not yet been discovered. Therefore, Kelsier would be content to find any of the following: -a way to get himself to Roshar. -a way to get himself to another Shardworld - Nalthis, Sel, Taldain (tho probably not Threnody), and also then access the local manifestation of Investiture. -a way to get free Investiture from any of those places to Scadrial. Has anyone else done this? Not quite. There are only two Cogs that I can think of, who we know were able to worldhop: Vasher and Shashara. From WoB I believe we know that this exact predicament is what caused Vasher to leave Nalthis for Roshar. But I expect it was a lot easier for Vasher to worldhop. He started off very Invested. A Returned with a Divine Breath, naturally Fifth Heightening... however you want to phrase it: Gruff Bae had a lot of Investiture. And as we know from Peacegiver's Treasure, he was definitely no stranger to acquiring more - Nor was Shashara, which we know from the fat stacks she expended in the creation of Nightblood. How is Kelsier going about this? I think he tried several things, one after another. I expect that he created the Bands Of Morning as a scientific experiment attempting to acces more of Scadrial's Investiture. Obviously it didn't work. It wouldn't surprise me if he tried to contact another Shard seeking, uhm, "sponsorship." (Giv avatar plz). This might well be related to all the Trelagist stuff on Scadrial. Whatever, and however - it seems it didn't work. We know from Mraize's Mancave Of Miracles that the Ghostbloods have been to many worlds. And they have brought back from them many Investiture-related objects, including white sand (Taldain), aviars (First of the Sun), and seons (Sel). Clearly nothing has solved the puzzle. We've also seen several ferruchemists offworld. It wouldn't surprise me if some of these are Ghostbloods. Metalminds allow for direct experimentation with the storing of Identity, Connection, and Investiture (Aluminum, Duralumin, and Nicrosil) on other worlds. These Terris people truly are cosmerenauts. However, he Kel hasn't figured out a way for him to Connect to one of these places sufficiently to access their Investiture; or he has, but not in a way that is strong enough to let him survive the trip to it. His work on Roshar - and his interests in Kalak especially - show that he is interested in the free investiture of Stormlight. This leads me to believe that he has concluded that he cannot get Investiture where he is, nor can he get to a better source of Investiture; he needs to bring the Investiture to him. What would the Realmatic effects of this be? #1 - it would give Cognitive Shadows on any Shardworld access to the life-persisting Investiture of the other worlds. Lots of Light = lots of shadows (heyooo). #2 - it would let forms of Investiture manipulation here be powered with Investiture from there. Which means intergalactic arbitrage opportunities for power - practically speaking, allowing merchants the opportunity to elevate themselves to positions of rulership, even interplanetarily so. #3 - probably tons of Realmatic things that I cannot even fathom. Who wouldn't want Kelsier to succeed? #1 - possibly, some or all Shards, as this would threaten their hegemonies over their planets specifically, and over the Cosmere as a whole #2 - every other group who wants to get this technology for themselves - so just rivals for power. This might include The Set, The Sons of Honor, who knows what. #3 - any noninterventionist group, I would think, would object to such a cosmic realignment of power. So I doubt Frost and his 17ers are all about this. Probably not the Sleepless either. Okay, that's how I read this. Am I entirely offbase? Whaddya guys think? -silver
  19. This is just a small bit of last-minute speculation before Oathbringer arrives. I've had a Ghostblood Symbol-related idea before that was already debunked, so I thought might as well attempt a second one. This time, one of my inspirations came from an unexpected place: a Sharder's profile photo. Specifically, @Aon Ati's profile photo, which I noticed just a few hours ago. Admittedly I had totally forgotten what Aon Ati looked like, and when I saw that picture it simply blew my mind. It felt like a Eureka moment in my quest for deciphering the Ghostblood symbol. But another major thing that led to this idea came to me last year via a different Aon. Part I: Aon Ire The truth is that I've never really bothered to analyze the shape and forms of the Aons before. Old-timers like me remember other people's futile attempts at connecting Aon Ati with the Vessel Ati before, and because of this I tended to shy away from Aons in general, especially their off-world potential. But in reality, Aonic symbolism has in fact traveled across planets at least once. In particular, we know that there is a Scadrian version of Aon Ire. Of course, it's perfectly possible that the steelified Ire symbol doesn't really exist in-universe and was just something Isaac and Brandon thought up to symbolize in a way familiar to Mistborn readers the group of mysterious beings who call themselves Ire, but at least it sets a precedent for the idea of Aons being seen in a non-Selish cosmere story. Take note that Kelsier actually sees Aon Ire in his head when he hears Alonoe say her group's name: We'll come back to this later on. Meanwhile, let's get to the meat of this theory. Part II: Aon Ati You've already seen what Aon Ati looks like, and if you've been paying attention to your Stormlight symbology, you'd know that the Ghostblood symbol has been described as three interlocking diamonds. This similarity (which I first noticed when I saw that profile photo) is what led me to my theory: The Ghostblood symbol was derived from Aon Ati. But obviously it's not exactly Aon Ati as the Elantrians knew it. For one, it doesn't have the dots. Based on @Viridian's report, the Ghostblood symbol also differs from Aon Ati in that its diamonds are arranged horizontally instead of vertically. So it's not exactly Aon Ati, but is rather a slight modification. Just like how the Steel alphabet version of Ire is a modification that relates to a Scadrian writing system (the Steel alphabet), I speculate that the Ghosblood symbol is a form of Ati made to look like some sort of Rosharan writing. (Edit: Thanks to @Iridium Savant's comment below, I now realize the Ghostblood symbol looks like Women's Script, which in hindsight I should have noticed.) The differences between the original Aon and the "localized" version aren't even that big, but the truth is I wouldn't have entertained this idea at all without my prior thoughts about Aon Ire's appearance in a Scadrial story. Because there is another connection there: We know that Aon Ati represents the concept of Hope. Well, there is another entity in the cosmere that (ostensibly) represents hope, one who had prior encounters with Elantrian magic and likely learned more about it later on, one who by the way is as deceptive and as ruthless (likely more so) as any Ghostblood member we've seen so far: (Edit: I compiled a few more interesting instances of Kelsier reinforcing his claim of representing hope in M:SH in a reply below.) Wouldn't it be interesting if Kelsier really is the one in charge of the Ghostbloods? I mean, it already has at least one Scadrian among its ranks. This makes me even more curious about what that "Thaidakar" guy looks like...