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Found 44 results

  1. So I’m in the middle of Elantra’s and it seems that taln is suffering an affliction not unlike the hoed, he is in such pain he is essentially insane and like a hoed he constantly repeats a mantra as a coping mechanism and finally, like riino, he is only salvated when being enhanced from investiture, riino was enhanced by the lake and taln was inhanced for a small amount of time by dalinars oath, thoughts?
  2. I belive that wit has 4 surges. Wit was the first one to meet taln after 4500 so I think he took taln's honorblade. So he gets 2 surges form there and then he gets 2 surges form design
  3. There has been some discussion on the names of the Unmade referring to ancient hebrew and phoenician myth. Since this parallel is established, I thought it would be interesting to share some thoughts of mine regarding greek mythology, Dalinar and Taln. 1. Dalinar and Hercules/Herakles You may remember Hercules being this fun adventure hero of greek myth. He slays monsters, liberates people. Most known are the twelve labours at the end of which he goes down to the underworld/ Hades to capture the hellhound Cerberus. He is the guy of Disney`s "Hercules". Yet, in the original myth there exists a way darker side of our hero. He is a heavy drinker and a violent man. In fact in almost every myth Hercules murders somebody. Most famously he murdered his own wife Megara and children in a fit of rage. For some reason the people at Disney thought it cool, to cast the wife he later murdered in myth into the movie. According to some versions this was the entire reason he was tasked with the twelve labours as a punishment for his misdeeds. Here Hercules is depicted murdering his wife and children. This brought me to Dalinar. Like Hercules he has an alcohol abuse problem. He used to be this warlord who enjoyed to sack and destroy cities. Hercules is btw. likewise thought to have been a general and to have destroyed a lot of cities. One prominent example is Troy, which he destroyed with an army one generation before the trojan war. Hercules is of course heavily musculed like Dalinar. Both are this brute human force of nature who buldozer through everything, friend and foe alike. the episode of murdering his wife makes up the plot of two famous tragedies, one of the Athenian author Euripidies, and of the roman philosopher Seneca. In both versions his jealous stepmother Hera sends down the godess "madness" to earth to indue Hercules with mad rage. In this blindness he committs the crime. Interestingly enough however, Hercules still thinks he is guilty, even though his mind was influenced by the godess. He is so desperate he almost wants to kill himself. I think the parallel to Dalinar killing Evi under influence of the Thrill is pretty clear. At the end of his life Hercules is betrayed by Deianara who sends him a poisened shirt. According to some versions she did not know the poisen was fatal and merely wanted to make Hercules love her again. Anyways, the pain is so intense Hercules decided to burn himself on a pyre to end his agony. Through burning himself he ascended into being a god. Again, the parallel to Dalinars ascension to being-who-knows-what in OB is interesting. Obviously not everything in Dalinar`s life can be thrown into this Hercules mould, but I think the parallels are there. 2. Taln/ Philoctetes Philoctetes is a greek hero only hardcore nerds of greek mythology, like me know about. So allow me to introduce you to him. As Hercules was sitting in agony on his funeral pyre, nobody dared to put the wood on fire. The only one who managed to do it, was a certain Philoctetes a native of the area and a gifted archer. Thanking him Hercules gave him his famous bow as a gift. As the Trojan War came along, Philoctetes participateted as one of the primary heros. He was the best archer in the entire greek army. Yet as the navy was approaching Troy, Philoctetes got bitten by a snake. Because he was in such great pains he screamed all day and disturbed the entire army. Rather than caring for him the leaders of the army decided to abandon him on the nearby island of Lemnos, breaking the oaths they had sworn. On that island he stayed for the entire rest of the war, also during the events of Homers Iliad, which is why his story is not widely known. In the tenth year however a prophet sent by the gods came to the greeks telling them, they could not conquer Troy until they had retrieved Philoctetes. He carried the bow of Hercules, which had already taken Troy once before and would be needed to do it again. There are multiple tragedies depicting the greek delegation trying to get Philoctetes back to Troy. Needless to say the man was almost driven mad from pain by that point. In Sophocles version he almost committed suicide at the end of the play. Nonetheless, he was in the end convinced to return to the greek army. He was healed and In the last months of the war Philoctetes killed Paris, who had started the entire mess. A paralell could exist to Taln who was likewise abandoned against the Oathpact and was driven mad by pain after thousands of years of torture. Yet he could play a very crucial role in future books, even though he did not in RoW.
  4. There exists a theory, which has been RAFO'd, that the ardent Pai is herself Paliah. IF this is true, I suspect that Taln, the bearer of agonies, was NOT the one who broke. Instead, Paliah, who had recently been executed in Kholinar under the guise of being Pai was the one who broke... Thoughts?
  5. theory

    I wrote the above theory that Taln was at one point in league with Odium, but isn't anymore. I wrote that because Tanavast told Dalinar that Odium wanted the long break between Desolations so that humanity would forget and turn on each other (WoK Ch. 75). Taln is the key to that. There needed to be a Herald who never broke, but died in nearly every Desolation in order to tempt the other 9 Heralds into quitting. I want to add to that theory based on what we learned in RoW. In RoW we get a glimpse of how great the Heralds were at fighting. Nale takes an arrow through the head shrugs it off and dispatches Szeth easily. Ishar fights 5 windrunners at once and wins. Dalinar is amazed at how great Ishar is at dueling. The Stormfather say Ishar was average at fighting among the Heralds and Taln was by FAR the best. Taln, the greatest fighter among the Heralds had a reputation for dying the most. (WoK Prelude). This could be because he was so self-sacrificing and the greatest, bestest person ever, but it's very convenient because he needed to not survive Desolations in order to tempt the Heralds. The other minor support I'd like to add is that Taln is currently slotted to have the 9th book. 9 being the number of the enemy, the number of Braize, the number of Fused orders, the number of Unmade, the number of Heralds who quit etc. I know in WoK Prime spoiler: I don't have a good idea of the specifics of how the subterfuge worked, but Taln is too perfect and he is crucial to the long break during which Honor died and the KR were (mostly) destroyed. It's more interesting if he helped trick the other Heralds and deeply regretted it due to his love for Ash.
  6. Taln seems too nice, self-sacrificing and has endurance beyond even what the other Heralds have. Or so it seems. This being Brandon I am looking for a twist. My theory w/ little evidence: Taln was a double-agent for Odium from the start, then turned on Odium in the last 4,500 years because he loves Ash so much. What do we know about Taln? He wasn't supposed to be a Herald, but then was included. (Stormfather in OB Ch. 38). An odd last minute addition that makes me suspicious. He had a habit of winning really difficult fights and dying in the process (Kalak in WoK Prelude). He makes a good show of it, but this approach guarantees he will die before the last Fused does. The Heralds end a Desolation by killing all the Fused and going back to Braize in a timely manner. Taln is guaranteeing he won't outlast the Fused in Desolation. While having an excuse for dying early and often because he takes on such difficult odds. He was the only Herald that never broke in the past (Stormfather in OB Ch. 38). Maybe that's because he was never tortured like others were. He was their inside guy. I'm thinking Odium's plan was to get the other 9 Heralds (the ones who were supposed to be Heralds.) to quit and humanity to grow complacent and in-fight. After the Knight's Radiants disband Odium is like "OK, go time! Taln, let the Fused loose." But, Taln has had a change of heart because he genuinely loves Ash and refuses. He is then actually tortured for a really long time and eventually break, but holds on long enough to mess with Odium's plans.
  7. So, let's talk about Hoid. Wow Ashspren, I hear you say. We've never heard that one before. But now let me make this a bit more intriguing: let's talk about Hoid and the Stonewards. At first, this seems like a strange combination. Hoid, given his Yolish abilities, seems to be more compatible with the Lightweavers–– storms, he even bonded a cryptic. However, there are two main facets to Hoid's relationship with the Stonewards that I wanted to explore. The first idea is the Ten Essences. I'm going to start with the role of gems, especially within the plot of the Stormlight Archive. As we all know, stones and gems play a huge part on Roshar. They power fabrials, reside in the hilts of blades, and are the cause for Greatshell hunts. Thus, whenever a gem is mentioned, it's generally a good idea to take a closer look. Take a look at the following table of the Ten Essences, spoilered for size (because it's a lot bigger than I expected, wow). I'm associating each row of the column with its respective order of the Knights Radiant, which I believe is a pretty safe assumption: The stones all seem pretty generic. Sapphire, a blue stone, goes to the sky-centric Windrunners. The Dustbringers are associated with rubies, as they invoke an image of heat and sparks. But, Number 9 on the table really caught my eye. The gemstone of the Stonewards is Topaz... where else is that stone used? The answer: that was one of Hoid's aliases, possibly even his given name. Spoilered for length, here's the WOB to back it up: (We could get into a whole other discussion about the "words on a page" deal, but let's not for right now.) So we already have this connection between the stone and one of Hoid's names. On top of that, though, let's examine the body focuses of Hoid's Radiant associations. Hoid is most prominently mentioned with regards to the Lightweavers, so the body focus there is blood. For the Stonewards, the body focus is bones. To demonstrate a prominent connection with both, I looked at The Traveler and specific imagery in that scene. For a color scheme, we're given lots of white, accentuated by red. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but there is an overwhelming amount of the colors of bones and blood shown in the scene. Additionally, the surrounding trees are described as "skeletal," and the juice from the pomegranate is "like blood." So, let's review before we move on: in accordance with the Ten Essences, we have determined that one of Hoid's aliases and the Stoneward gemstone are both named Topaz, and imagery from The Traveler reflects blood and bones, which are the body focuses of the Lightweavers and Stonewards, respectively. Next, we move onto human-to-human relationships. What is the significance of Taln, the Herald of the Stonewards, with respect to Hoid? An important thing to note is that Taln is introduced during the epilogue to The Way of Kings. Thus, Hoid is the among the first to hear that Taln has succumbed to the pain on Braize, and the Desolation is soon to arrive. However, it's clear that Hoid knows what is about to happen. We know why Taln is the one to announce the dawn of the Desolation; the other Heralds left him to suffer on Braize alone, as he was the only one who had not failed in enduring Damnation. However, why is it Hoid that receives him at the gates? Personally, I think that this was Brandon's way of alluding to a deeper connection between their characters. Specifically, I see many ways in which Hoid and Taln are painted as opposites. In the aforementioned epilogue, the differences are mostly superficial. To condense the key parts of the passages: Eye color: Hoid has blue eyes and is therefore high-class, while Taln has brown eyes and appears to be low-class Positioning: Hoid is comfortably perched on boxes, while Taln is cannot walk straight and is tripping over himself Material objects: Hoid carries an instrument, while Taln carries a giant Shardblade Beyond this, though, there are major points of contrast within Hoid and Taln's personalities. If we assume Taln to be like his fellow Stonewards, he is "dependable" and "resourceful," according to the chart of the Ten Essences. This is further affirmed by his long years of pain on Braize and how he was able to stand firm to protect Roshar. Therefore, the argument is not if Taln is dependable and resourceful, but rather if Hoid is the opposite of at least one of those qualities. We all know that Hoid is very resourceful, and this is virtually inarguable–– as someone who operates alone, going any way the wind blows, he has to be. But as to the question if Hoid is dependable, the answer is a resolute no. Here's why... Reading back through The Traveler, we witness a conversation between Hoid and Frost the dragon, who reminds him of his past wishes. Hoid and Frost reflect on the former's change over thousands of years, and why his involvement in universal affairs is an issue. Through this passage, it can be inferred that Hoid has changed his mind from an earlier conviction. This means that he is not sticking to what he has previously said, whether or not that statement was a true promise or just passionate words. Additionally, Frost describes what Hoid wants as "dangerous," and Hoid's response–– or lack thereof–– demonstrates that he knows that his behavior can cause harm, yet he continues to do it. I'm not arguing that Hoid is a villain. What I am trying to say, though, is that you wouldn't be able to ask him for a favor and reliably assume that he would follow through. Again, this isn't a good or bad thing, it's just the way he is. Couple his lack of dependability with surface-level differences, and you've cracked the mystery of Hoid's relationships with the Knights Radiant. He essentially twins with the Lightweavers and heavily contrasts with the Stonewards. TLDR: Brandon's given us one of Hoid's aliases, Topaz, to imply a deeper connection between Hoid and the Stonewards. Through the body focuses of the Ten Essences chart, we can conclude that Hoid has connections to both the Lightweavers–– as we already knew–– and the Stonewards. After an analysis of Hoid and Taln's characters, it's clear that they are basically opposites, so Hoid's strongest relationships within the Knights Radiant must be the Lightweavers (similar) and the Stonewards (different). I know this had a lot of explanation and less of an actual theory, but I wanted to open up the theorizing to everyone else. What are your thoughts? Just saw a connection and ran with it, so I want to know what everyone else thinks about Hoid, his relationship with the Knights Radiant, Taln, the Stonewards, and anything involving all of them.
  8. I can't remember if that was emphatically stated or not. I only remember Ash holding his hand and the emotion of that scene in the tent. Were (are?) they romantically inclined? Kinda hard when half the party is mad, I know
  9. Alright Sharders, I know it's a long shot - but the payoff would certainly be worth it. I've spent some time combing over the gorgeous portrait of Taln by Donato Giancola released by Tor today. As I was drawn into the piece, I couldn't stop staring at the glyphs etching the top step he's standing upon. A cursory search turned up no in-world glyphs, but I'm hoping I've missed something you can help us find. Does anyone have any insights into the particular language etched here? Or any insights as to possible meaning? Or else confirmation that the inimitable Donato created these glyphs with his artistic license so I can sleep tonight?
  10. I believe a clandestine organization is behind the disappearance of all the shards missing on Roshar . But Taln’s blade I think it was the of a known group . So at the End of Way of Kings Taln shows up with a Sharblade . Since it was being worn and not dismissed I assumed it was a regular shardblade . The thought was Taln came back after 4K years couldn’t find his shardblade , went to the cache that’s brought up by Amaram in WoR and shows up in Alethkar . Then a WoB comes out and Brandon says that Taln blade was swapped out somewhere between the shattered plains and Alethkar . So Hoid is on the trip so of course he becomes the prime suspect . I assumed Hoid knows Taln from way back when and trying to do him a solid and help keep Taln cover by hiding his shardblade . So groups like the ghostbloods won’t hear and try and steal it .... We know the sons of Honor didn’t do it cause Amaram and the ardents were trying to get the Herald to tell them where the cache was assuming it was the cache or Honorblades . The ghost bloods were trying to kill them so I doubt it was them . So that leaves just two on screen groups that could of done it . The group I believe that has hidden the majority of the shards on Roshar ( The aimians) and the group I believe is behind the theft The Shin What made me decide on the Shin was that I don’t think the Aimians would left a shardblade in place of The Honorblade . The Shin Shamanate have someway of tracking the Honorblades . Szeth said upon his death they would come to claim it The Shin would not have a problem with Leaving a blade in place as a sign of respect . The Shin could transport thier and back thru shadesmar using the Lightweaver or Elsecaller blades . They could also disguise themselves using The lightweaver blade. ( Perhaps this is why Taln freaked out when shallan tried to Lightweave while he was in the cell ) he thought whoever took his blade was back . When he realized it was just Radiant he calmed down! If it is them for the first time they have the Stoneward Honor blade to study and train with . I don’t know if I’m right , but if I am . I’m greatly interested on how the Stone Shamans locate honor blades. .
  11. 1. Why was Jasnah in the market and why did she have drawings of the Heralds? Also, did Shallan draw them? 2. Who is the "Midius" Ash mentions in reference to Jasnah's sketches 3. When Taln told Ash to follow him, he said someone was waiting for them. Who? Subquestion: It seemed like he lost lucidity in the middle of leading Ash, and then that whole thing with Jezrien dying happened. (Seriously, Brandon, are you trying to ruin my solid thug-life rep? Second time I teared up reading this book.)
  12. In Taln's interlude in WOR, he is undoubtedly not sane. However, some of his thoughts seem to be semi-lucid, and one particular snippet caught my eye: Taln goes rather quickly here from insane ravings, but grammatically sound, to a sentence that makes little sense. But, it does remind me of the street dialect of Spook, that went on to be High Imperial. I'm not a timeline expert at all, so this could be something more of a common ancestor type thing, but the thought that at his weakest his mind flips to thinking to himself in this way makes me wonder if he doesn't share something with Scadrial.
  13. Good day fellas. It's been a while since I've posted on here and since I've checked in, so if this theory is old hat, I apologize. Tear me to shreds. But if not, I humbly submit this to the 17th Shard. I reread OB recently and I've been thinking of Brandon's repeated mentions of how the entire structure of Stormlight is going to be ordered; specifically that each order of Knights Radiant will have a flashback book through a different character's perspective. What I've not been able to wrap my head around is with who he's chosen for his flashbacks for the subsequent books - it seems we have an extra Lightweaver in the bunch with Ash - the Herald and Patron of Lightweavers - being present in the back five. With her inclusion, we've got representatives from each order present in Brandon's planned 10 book sequence: Kaladin/Windrunner, Shallan/Lightweaver, Dalinar/Bondsmith, Eshonai/Willshaper (probably), Szeth/Skybreaker, Renarin/Truthwatcher, Lift/Edgedancer, Taln/Stoneward and Jasnah/Elsecaller. So that leaves our interesting friend Ash - who according to tradition is the leader of Lightweavers. And we're missing a Dustbringer (or Releaser if you're gonna be PC about it) book. I think Ash is going to become a Dustbringer. This way she will make the flashbacks of the books nice and ordered and sequenced and each order gets one book. But I also think it works with the text. We know the Heralds are essentially just immortal (unless you have a special knife!) humans and thus fallible to human emotions that might attract the right type of spren. It also seems like another prerequisite for being a KR is to be flawed or damaged in some way and the Nahel bond is an avenue for that KR to explore their flaws and come to terms with them (Kaladin's depression, Shallan's repressed memories, etc.) Look at Ash's character for a second: what do we know about her off the top of our heads? She destroys. Brandon has spent three books putting in overt references to Ash destroying her own visage in works of art depicting the Heralds. Sounds a little Dustbringery to you? Ash is also sane, as we saw in her handful of viewpoints in Oathbringer but is dealing with an incredible amount of guilt for the last four and a half thousand years by leaving Taln to be tortured on Braize. There we also have the unofficial KR flaw - her mountain of guilt that gives her a compulsion to destroy any art depicting her as a way of ... atonement, maybe? Either way, I think this is enough to probably attract an Ashspren. We know from Malata that Ashspren like to destroy and have a bit of a chip on their shoulders. I think they would love the fact that Ash has spent nearly five thousand years destroying. If you were an Ashspren looking for a Nahel bond, she would be a prize catch, right? I think there's a little aversion to her being a Dustbringer in my head because I'm thinking along the lines of "but she's the Herald of Lightweaving! She just CAN'T be anything else!" But I think I've argued my brain out of that position. First, we know that Heralds can form a Nahel bond - Nale mentions he became a Skybreaker and shows off his fancy non-Honourblade shardblade. Who is to say that a Herald who joins an order has to join THEIR order though? There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule about it. Especially when they've gone through such changes in the past five thousand years. Ash is not simply the herald of beauty and creativity anymore. While some of the other Heralds have gone insane, Ash seems to have just gotten flipped around. She represents destruction now. So there ya have it. Let me know what you think.
  14. Alright. I know this is unpopular, and everyone wants to believe that Taln is amazing. I'm not trying to say that he's not... But I don't think he's the reason for the millenia long break between desolations. I think this is what Odium wanted and that he acted to make it occur. First we have this, from the Sleepless, on the back cover of tWoK. Then this from Tanavast. The length of time wasn't Taln holding out against unspeakable odds. It's what Odium wanted. Then we have Taln himself in WoR. He's so broken he sees the world as off its burning and he wonders why people aren't screaming. I am convinced that he broke long ago and that Odium has actively held him back. In order to allow the Fused freedom Odium had to let him free, because the Oathpact is still in effect. The natural point to do this would have seemingly been just after the Recreance, but with the singers crippled the Fused would have no longer had bodies to take. Being incapable of forms she also mean incapable of housing a Fused. So Odium needed the Everstorm to heal the Parsh in order for the Fused to take bodies. He needed the proper climate to push the listeners to take stormform, and he couldn't release the voidspren to facilitate that until events favored them actually being willing to take stormform and release the Everstorm. Releasing the voidspren at a time earlier would have played his hand and driven the Spren to again seek Radiants just as they're doing now. It would have destroyed any advantage the Recreance gave him. Why would he think he was late if the goal were to stay away forever?
  15. What exactly are we supposed to expect of the Heralds in the coming books? I would love to see Taln come to deal with his madness in someway, be reunited with his honorblade and lead men against the fused as he once did, but I doubt that would actually happen. So what can we expect of the Heralds instead? Are they so much of a wildcard that they will hinder Dalinar's quest? Will they help out and assist the Radants? Will they turn and support Odium? (is it even possible for a Herald to do this?) Maybe they'll just exist and not do much, but I highly doubt that. Will Moash/Vyre go around and pick them off one by one? I hope this isn't the case, but who knows. I'm eager to know what you all think and if we have any hints to base our guesses on.
  16. So, it appears that the whole Hoed mantra thing is Cosmere-significant, and //it's been 6 months since Oathbringer release, but I don't know how the Spoiler rules have changed, etc. I have included someone else's theory in a link below. I don't actually believe that theory, but it contains relevant information: Perhaps being Hoed is related to Savantism somehow?
  17. A relatively popular theory here is that Shalash will end up taking up the oaths of the Dustbringer radiants. While I'm not opposed to this theory the assumption that Shalash will become the dustbringer because of her new hobby of destroyering art seems a bit shallow to me... Instead I think Taln could be our dustbringer and Shalash the stoneward. I think it makes more sense to look at Ash and Taln's current weeknesses along with the divine attributes that define their potential orders (granted we don't fully understand how some of these apply yet). First off, the divine attributes associated with the Dustbringers are "Brave and Obedient". Taln is a much different man from who he was before. In addition to his ramblings we now know that he's become a coward. I don't think its a stretch to say that him working through his madness (with help from Ash) and finding his courage again is all but garanteed. Him overcoming his fear of battle would and swearing the dustbringer ideals fit well together. The divine attributes of the Stonewards are "Dependable and Resourceful". Now that the 2 of them have reunited I think its safe assume that Ash will be looking after and essentially babysitting Taln through his madness. As a redemption arc, it'd make sense to have one of the people that abandoned him be his rock in his time of need. This could be the perfect thing to get a stoneward spren's attention. Of course knowing Brandon none of this will be this straight forward, but you get the point.
  18. Who do you guys think would win? Lord ruler has no atium. The Heralds are Stormlight boosted by Ishar. Basically Immortal Fullborn or Immortal Heralds.
  19. In ch. 119 of OB Taln became lucid as soon as Dalinar released Honor's Perpendicularity, and in ch. 121 we find out that he regressed before the fighting started i.e. when the Perpendicularity disappeared. Could there be a connection between Honor's power and Taln's soul? Is Tanavast's madness related to this?
  20. In Oathbringer we learnt a couple of interesting new facts about Taln that differentiate him from the other Heralds So we now know that Taln never broke and was never meant to be a Herald in the first place. I have no clear theory as to why this although the former presumably is linked to the later but it does have some interesting potential implications. Were there originally meant to be nine Heralds instead of ten? If there were originally supposed to be ten, who was supposed to be the tenth instead of Taln, as it feels like a waste of a potentially interesting storyline to have the other as some generic human that has no plot meaning? Is the fact that only nine of the heralds ever broke linked to the there being nine Unmade in some way? How did Taln come to be involved in the Oathpact if he was not intended to be a Herald? What was Taln before he was a Herald and was that linked to him being the 'bearer of all agonies'? I don't know the answers to the questions, although for the last I think it would be thematically nice (if cliché) for Taln's lowly background being the source of his incredible will, but I think they are worth discussing and I love to hear people's thoughts
  21. This is my Public Service Announcement- Taln is now my adopted character. He's the most honorable person on Roshar. Storms, he was still gracious to Ash. So if you have beef with Taln, you'll be going through the Steeldancer first. *cracks knuckles* on a slightly related topic, who else thinks it's dope that Naln bonded a Highspren? That's pretty cool. What is his surge binding efficiency like?
  22. Hi guys! So we are a doing a words of radiance reread and I came across this. In interlude 7 of words of radiance, Dalinar and Eholkar visit Taln ( or the man who calls himself Taln) and they can't understand most of what he says because according to Dalinar he is speaking in a very think northern rural alethi accent. In chapter 63 of words of radiance, Shallan visits Taln and she is able to clearly understand whatever he says. Infact she even comments that the person was speaking in perfect alethi. Are there any theories or WoB on this? I know people discuss his blade more often, but I have not come across this any where.
  23. What follows is my current theory on how the 10 Heralds became the 10 fool's through the coarse of the Desolations. I will update this post as it evolves. I will try to provide links to all WOB. Quotes will come from the kindle versions of the books via cut and paste. I will list book, chapter, and location number. Bold will be my emphasis. Italics will be possible contradictory evidence. Number 18 here From Reddit Fantasy Bookclub Q&A with Brandon Sanderson Feb 28th, 2011 We will start with this quote which shows us all Heralds were in WOK. First, the Desolations occurred when the Heralds were sent back to Roshar after one of them broke under the torture of Odium. Second, each Herald is associated with a primary and secondary Divine Attribute. (Possibly primary from Honor, Secondary from Cultivation?) Third, the torture does not happen in the physical realm. It occurs in either the cognitive, or more likely the spiritual realm. Fourth, when Odium breaks a Herald, he is literally breaking part of that Heralds spiritual connection to the Divine Attribute. Fifth, Odium's goal was to break all the Heralds and bring about the the Everstorm, allowing him to shatter Honor and Cultivation. Sixth, breaking the Divine Attributes shifted them towards something more compatible with Odium and less compatible with Honor. This resulted in the attributes associated with the 10 Fool's. Number 19 in this WOB, says each is uniquely insane. NOTE: One of the biggliest issues with this theory is not knowing the 10 Fools attributes. Two Fools are named. Two have attributes. Cabine - He acts like a child although he is an adult. TWOK chapter 37, page 593, location 10668 Eshu - He speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do. WOR chapter 71, page 593, location 16877 One issue I have here is that the 2 Heralds I would link these two too are both female. Paliah and Battar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) We have a WOB on this. Not a confirmation, but along those lines. 2) Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. Leading Nale. Just. Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. Builder Talenel. Dependable. Resourceful Ishar. Pious. Guiding 3) Since Odium was attempting to break the Heralds focus on their Divine Attribute, the torture most likely took place in the spiritual realm. The spren would probably know something if it took place in the cognitive realm. One thing pointing to the cognitive realm though is the fact that Taln appeared covered in condensation much like a shardblade. 4) By breaking the Herald, Odium shifted their Primary attribute to closer align with his shard and align less with Honors. This usually resulted in an almost inversion of the attribute. SPECIFICALLY I THINK ONLY THE PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE WAS BROKEN/TWISTED. Below I will show what I think the attribute shifted to after the Devine attribute. Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. (Submission) Leading Nale. Just. (Arbitrary)(Judgement) Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. (Destructive) Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. (Weak-willed) Builder Talenel. Dependable. (Erratic) Resourceful Ishar. Pious. (Traitorous) Guiding These are based off of what we have seen or heard in the books so far. These are not perfect words, but the 17th shard manymind will probably come up with better. There are some subtle indications that only 9 of the 10 fool's have a strong history or mythology. Here is one concerning Lyft and pancakes. I think I subconsciously connected Lyft's silly quest to eat all 10 Pancakes with the 10 fool's. Research could not find a direct correlation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jezrien gives up on protecting humanity personally, submits to the Will of the group, and sacrifices Talenel to uphold the entire oathpact. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nale shifts from Just- working within the accepted standards of right and wrong to Arbitrary- following the rule of law without regards to morality.....he goes straight lawful evil. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 Judgement not Justice. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shalash is pretty clear with her running around destroying art, and significantly art that depicts her and other heralds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kalak is in no way resolute when Jezrien meets him. He is in fact very weak willed, confessing that he cannot go back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Talenel (if it really is him) comes back a broken man, highly erratic and unable to perform his duties as the Herald of War. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ishar formed the Knights Radiant originally, he led the Bondsmiths. He was also the one who promulgated the traitorous idea that 1 Herald could support the Oathpact. From Edgedancer: And And ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) We know there were not literally 99 desolation. I suspect there were 9. One each time Odium broke a Herald. Then the next time that Herald would not be tortured as hard so that about her would break first. Nine also being the number of Odium I believe would work well with this. After the Oathpact was discarded, Odium let humanity rewrite Roshar's history and religion in preparation for the Final Desolation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) The corruption of the 9 Heralds weakened Honor, but the Knights Radiant provided some support, until the Day of Requience when they abandoned all their oaths. Honor shattered shortly after. I have to go back and find some more quotes and WOB to fully support some of this, but I will edit them in as I find them.
  24. So... The Heralds. Lots of interesting things going on here, and I just wanted to make a thread compiling all the information in one place, as well as adding some theories here and there. One thing I find interesting is that Brandon seems to take extra care to not confirm the appearances of any of the Heralds. I believe that even the so-called confirmed Heralds, namely Nalan and Shalash, have actually not been explicitly stated to be who we think they are. With all of the discussion centering around Taln description, Brandon may just have pulled a beautiful distraction from the fact that all the other Heralds are in the same boat as our Mad Talenel. Nevertheless, looking for them throughout the book is quite a bit of fun, and so here it is: The Heralds, and Where to Find Them. (Any information that can be added would be great. I'm probably missing quite a bit...) P.S.: I've included the phrases/curses used in the Heralds' names as I believe they conceal more information than we're giving them credit for. They are obviously each used in specific situations, but they may even be hints towards aspects of the heralds themselves. I believe there's a WoB somewhere that says the Heralds are not necessarily all from Roshar, which can lead to some interesting theories... Jezrien (Jezerezeh/Prime Kadasix/Kadasix of Kings): Order: Windrunners Physical Description: Regal; Wears blue and white; Young, looking barely into his thirtieth year; Short black beard, neatly trimmed. Quotes: "Praise Yaezir, Herald of Kings. May he lead in wisdom. If he ever stops drooling." (This is the line that implies that the beggar at the feast might actually be Jezrien. More on that below. It also draws a comparison to the "Kadasix of Kings" title. 'Kadasix' seems to be the word for 'Herald' in Azir, as proven in a statement by Nalan below.) Phrases: There don't seem to be any curses in Jezrien's name. The Azir have the "Praise Yaezir," but that's pretty much it. I wonder if that means something... Theories: There's been a theory that Kaladin's predecessor as head of the Cobalt Guard, Niter, is actually Jezrien in disguise. This is mainly due to the fact that Niter wears the Kholin blue and white, and is described as "tan-faced," with a "black beard, cut short," an extremely similar description to Jezrien's in the prelude. Nale (Nalan/Nin): (Herald of Justice) Order: Skybreakers Physical Description: Dark skin; has a pale crescent birthmark on his cheek; wears a black uniform with a double row of silver buttons down the coat's front, a stiff silver collar poking up from a shirt underneath; thick gloves with collars extending halfway back around his forearms; has a dead, lifeless stare. Quotes: "She glanced down the hallway. She could swear he was glowing faintly, and he was certainly running too quickly. Darkness was awesome too." (If he really is using Stormlight, he may be the Herald who we know took back his Blade. Then again, it may just be one of Nalan's little gadgets...) “The Kadasixes have spoken,” said one of the scions. “The Heralds?” Darkness said. “They have done no such thing. You are mistaken.” (This seems to me to be further proof that 'Darkness' is a Herald (as if it was needed).) Phrases: Nalan's Hand (Used when acknowledging a decision regarding justice) Theories: He is one of the most 'confirmed' Heralds, and is believed to be Darkness, one of the Azish ambassadors at Gavilar's feast, and the one who gives Nightblood to Szeth in the WoR Epilogue. Chana (Chanaranach/Chanarach): Order: Dustbringers (Releasers) Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: "The fastest man e’er known to live. The surest feet e’er known to roam. In time long past, in times I’ve known, he raced the Herald Chan-a-rach." (The fact that Fleet's speed is validated through its comparison to Chana makes sense, seeing as she also has access to the surge of Abrasion which, as Lift has demonstrated, can definitely make one quite fast.) Phrases: Chana knows, Chana help (Used when referring to something that concerns family, more specifically motherhood.) Theories: Vedel (Vedeledev): (Herald of Healing) Order: Edgedancers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Vedeledev's Golden Keys (This is an interesting one. I haven't come up with anything for this one just yet, but there's obviously a story behind this.) Theories: Pali (Pailiah/Paliah): Order: Truthwatchers Physical Description: Unknown (Unless the Palanaeum theory is true, in which case we know she's old...) Quotes: Phrases: Pailiah knew Theories: It is confirmed that the Palanaeum was named after her, but there is a theory that the "berobed female ardent" Shallan sees is actually the Herald Pailiah in disguise. (More below.) Ash (Shalash): (Herald of Beauty) Order: Lightweavers Physical Description: Extremely beautiful; Dark skin; Long, beautiful black hair; "Eyes like a Shin, but tall and lean, like an Alethi"; Hair worn free, reaches down to waist; wears sleek and tight trousers; light violet eyes; wears a thin-bladed sword Quotes: "The mistress has good ears. Strangely good ears." - (WoK pg. 707) "Perhaps I should get myself a Shardblade." (Indicates that not only is the "thin-bladed sword" not a Shardblade, but she likely doesn't have one at all.) "A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal." (This fits with her being Jezrien's daughter (confirmed here), and is also the most solid evidence that the Mistress is Shalash.) “I’m worried about Ash...She's getting worse.” (WoR Prologue - A Herald talking about Shalash's condition to Nalan. Likely referring to her recent destructive streak.) Phrases: Ash's Eyes (Used when referring to something that concerns beauty) Theories: She's destroying pieces of art that she appears in. (This is actually already confirmed.) The reasons for this could be an entire thread all on its own, although I particularly like Argent's theory that the Heralds are rebounding off of their divine attributes. Creativity and Honesty seem to be the exact opposite of breaking in to places and vandalizing art. there is also the quote in the WoR Prologue that mentions how "Ash is getting worse." Cases of destroyed art include a missing Shalash statue in the WoK Prologue (pg. 23), the Baxil Interlude (WoK pg. 707), and Lift noticing a scratched out face in a portrait of the Heralds (WoR pg. 690). Battar (Battah): Order: Elsecallers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Battah send that girl some sense... Theories: Kalak (Kelek): Order: Willshapers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Kelek's Breath, Kelek's Tongue, Kelek knows (It's been postulated for a while that Kelek's Breath may be a hint towards his having come from Nalthis. Something I just thought of, however, is that Kelek's Tongue could also refer to the removal of the God Kings' tongues... Could it be that Kelek has no tongue?) Theories: There is a wounded bridgeman whom Kaladin helps that may turn out to be the Herald Kalak. He reacts slightly differently than the other bridgemen Kaladin cares for, but this is very much just a theory. (More below.) Alternatively, some have theorized that he is the man Nalan is talking to in the WoR Prologue. This seems to have a little more basis to support it. Taln (Talenelat/Talenel): (Herald of War/Stonesinew) Order: Stonewards Physical Description: Dark brown skin and eyes; back beard Quotes: “The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.” —Dated Palaheses, 1173, unknown seconds pre-death. Subject: a wealthy lighteyes. Sample collected secondhand.” "...The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia." Phrases: Talat's Hand, Constellation named Taln's Scar Theories: I have a whole other thread on this. Ishar (Ishi): (Herald of Luck) Order: Bondsmiths Physical Description: Not much. He might have a long beard though, and is probably the scholar-figure of the Heralds. Quotes: Phrases: Ishar's Soul Theories: Is he the beggar mentioned below? The beard does seem to match Ishar's appearance in the Heraldic Icons that appear above certain chapters... ??? (Theorized Heralds): One thing to keep in mind is that Brandon has obviously seeded in certain red herrings with 'Heraldic' descriptions. Regardless, here are some of the more suspicious ones of the bunch: WoK pg. 23 - "A man with a long grey and black beard slumped in the doorway, smiling foolishly--though whether from wine or a weak mind, Szeth could not tell. "Have you seen me?" the man asked with slurred speech. He laughed, then began to speak in gibberish, reaching for the wineskin." (There are arguments for this being either Jezrien or Ishar. He is almost certainly a Herald, however, due to his comment of "Have you seen me?" when there are a line of Herald statues across the hall.) WoK pg. 40 - "The soldier on the other side of Cenn nodded. He was a lanky, red-haired Veden, with a darker tan skin than the Alethi. Why was he fighting in an Alethi army?" WoK pg. 502 - "It turned out to be just an old, berobed female ardent, shuffling with a lantern and followed by a parshman servant... Lit that way--with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves--it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks." (Theorized to be Pali. The reason for this seems to be because we have a WoB saying that the Palanaeum, where Shallan is at the time, was named after her.) WoK pg. 745-746 - "He had dark brown skin and brown eyes, his thick black hair pulled back into a long, braided tail... He didn't have even a hint of an accent. Kaladin had expected him to be Azish because of the dark skin." (This is tentatively theorized to be Kalak, more through process of elimination than anything else.)
  25. From WoK Epilogue: Kholinar on the map: Interesting, no? Why did Taln come back from Braize near the largest city in the area, or near Kholinar, and why was he wet? We have no mention of being wet when Jasnah elsecalls, no? Could he be have swum in through a shardpool or something? Tell me, yah?