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Found 34 results

  1. 1. Why was Jasnah in the market and why did she have drawings of the Heralds? Also, did Shallan draw them? 2. Who is the "Midius" Ash mentions in reference to Jasnah's sketches 3. When Taln told Ash to follow him, he said someone was waiting for them. Who? Subquestion: It seemed like he lost lucidity in the middle of leading Ash, and then that whole thing with Jezrien dying happened. (Seriously, Brandon, are you trying to ruin my solid thug-life rep? Second time I teared up reading this book.)
  2. In Taln's interlude in WOR, he is undoubtedly not sane. However, some of his thoughts seem to be semi-lucid, and one particular snippet caught my eye: Taln goes rather quickly here from insane ravings, but grammatically sound, to a sentence that makes little sense. But, it does remind me of the street dialect of Spook, that went on to be High Imperial. I'm not a timeline expert at all, so this could be something more of a common ancestor type thing, but the thought that at his weakest his mind flips to thinking to himself in this way makes me wonder if he doesn't share something with Scadrial.
  3. Good day fellas. It's been a while since I've posted on here and since I've checked in, so if this theory is old hat, I apologize. Tear me to shreds. But if not, I humbly submit this to the 17th Shard. I reread OB recently and I've been thinking of Brandon's repeated mentions of how the entire structure of Stormlight is going to be ordered; specifically that each order of Knights Radiant will have a flashback book through a different character's perspective. What I've not been able to wrap my head around is with who he's chosen for his flashbacks for the subsequent books - it seems we have an extra Lightweaver in the bunch with Ash - the Herald and Patron of Lightweavers - being present in the back five. With her inclusion, we've got representatives from each order present in Brandon's planned 10 book sequence: Kaladin/Windrunner, Shallan/Lightweaver, Dalinar/Bondsmith, Eshonai/Willshaper (probably), Szeth/Skybreaker, Renarin/Truthwatcher, Lift/Edgedancer, Taln/Stoneward and Jasnah/Elsecaller. So that leaves our interesting friend Ash - who according to tradition is the leader of Lightweavers. And we're missing a Dustbringer (or Releaser if you're gonna be PC about it) book. I think Ash is going to become a Dustbringer. This way she will make the flashbacks of the books nice and ordered and sequenced and each order gets one book. But I also think it works with the text. We know the Heralds are essentially just immortal (unless you have a special knife!) humans and thus fallible to human emotions that might attract the right type of spren. It also seems like another prerequisite for being a KR is to be flawed or damaged in some way and the Nahel bond is an avenue for that KR to explore their flaws and come to terms with them (Kaladin's depression, Shallan's repressed memories, etc.) Look at Ash's character for a second: what do we know about her off the top of our heads? She destroys. Brandon has spent three books putting in overt references to Ash destroying her own visage in works of art depicting the Heralds. Sounds a little Dustbringery to you? Ash is also sane, as we saw in her handful of viewpoints in Oathbringer but is dealing with an incredible amount of guilt for the last four and a half thousand years by leaving Taln to be tortured on Braize. There we also have the unofficial KR flaw - her mountain of guilt that gives her a compulsion to destroy any art depicting her as a way of ... atonement, maybe? Either way, I think this is enough to probably attract an Ashspren. We know from Malata that Ashspren like to destroy and have a bit of a chip on their shoulders. I think they would love the fact that Ash has spent nearly five thousand years destroying. If you were an Ashspren looking for a Nahel bond, she would be a prize catch, right? I think there's a little aversion to her being a Dustbringer in my head because I'm thinking along the lines of "but she's the Herald of Lightweaving! She just CAN'T be anything else!" But I think I've argued my brain out of that position. First, we know that Heralds can form a Nahel bond - Nale mentions he became a Skybreaker and shows off his fancy non-Honourblade shardblade. Who is to say that a Herald who joins an order has to join THEIR order though? There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule about it. Especially when they've gone through such changes in the past five thousand years. Ash is not simply the herald of beauty and creativity anymore. While some of the other Heralds have gone insane, Ash seems to have just gotten flipped around. She represents destruction now. So there ya have it. Let me know what you think.
  4. Alright. I know this is unpopular, and everyone wants to believe that Taln is amazing. I'm not trying to say that he's not... But I don't think he's the reason for the millenia long break between desolations. I think this is what Odium wanted and that he acted to make it occur. First we have this, from the Sleepless, on the back cover of tWoK. Then this from Tanavast. The length of time wasn't Taln holding out against unspeakable odds. It's what Odium wanted. Then we have Taln himself in WoR. He's so broken he sees the world as off its burning and he wonders why people aren't screaming. I am convinced that he broke long ago and that Odium has actively held him back. In order to allow the Fused freedom Odium had to let him free, because the Oathpact is still in effect. The natural point to do this would have seemingly been just after the Recreance, but with the singers crippled the Fused would have no longer had bodies to take. Being incapable of forms she also mean incapable of housing a Fused. So Odium needed the Everstorm to heal the Parsh in order for the Fused to take bodies. He needed the proper climate to push the listeners to take stormform, and he couldn't release the voidspren to facilitate that until events favored them actually being willing to take stormform and release the Everstorm. Releasing the voidspren at a time earlier would have played his hand and driven the Spren to again seek Radiants just as they're doing now. It would have destroyed any advantage the Recreance gave him. Why would he think he was late if the goal were to stay away forever?
  5. What exactly are we supposed to expect of the Heralds in the coming books? I would love to see Taln come to deal with his madness in someway, be reunited with his honorblade and lead men against the fused as he once did, but I doubt that would actually happen. So what can we expect of the Heralds instead? Are they so much of a wildcard that they will hinder Dalinar's quest? Will they help out and assist the Radants? Will they turn and support Odium? (is it even possible for a Herald to do this?) Maybe they'll just exist and not do much, but I highly doubt that. Will Moash/Vyre go around and pick them off one by one? I hope this isn't the case, but who knows. I'm eager to know what you all think and if we have any hints to base our guesses on.
  6. So, it appears that the whole Hoed mantra thing is Cosmere-significant, and //it's been 6 months since Oathbringer release, but I don't know how the Spoiler rules have changed, etc. I have included someone else's theory in a link below. I don't actually believe that theory, but it contains relevant information: Perhaps being Hoed is related to Savantism somehow?
  7. A relatively popular theory here is that Shalash will end up taking up the oaths of the Dustbringer radiants. While I'm not opposed to this theory the assumption that Shalash will become the dustbringer because of her new hobby of destroyering art seems a bit shallow to me... Instead I think Taln could be our dustbringer and Shalash the stoneward. I think it makes more sense to look at Ash and Taln's current weeknesses along with the divine attributes that define their potential orders (granted we don't fully understand how some of these apply yet). First off, the divine attributes associated with the Dustbringers are "Brave and Obedient". Taln is a much different man from who he was before. In addition to his ramblings we now know that he's become a coward. I don't think its a stretch to say that him working through his madness (with help from Ash) and finding his courage again is all but garanteed. Him overcoming his fear of battle would and swearing the dustbringer ideals fit well together. The divine attributes of the Stonewards are "Dependable and Resourceful". Now that the 2 of them have reunited I think its safe assume that Ash will be looking after and essentially babysitting Taln through his madness. As a redemption arc, it'd make sense to have one of the people that abandoned him be his rock in his time of need. This could be the perfect thing to get a stoneward spren's attention. Of course knowing Brandon none of this will be this straight forward, but you get the point.
  8. Who do you guys think would win? Lord ruler has no atium. The Heralds are Stormlight boosted by Ishar. Basically Immortal Fullborn or Immortal Heralds.
  9. In ch. 119 of OB Taln became lucid as soon as Dalinar released Honor's Perpendicularity, and in ch. 121 we find out that he regressed before the fighting started i.e. when the Perpendicularity disappeared. Could there be a connection between Honor's power and Taln's soul? Is Tanavast's madness related to this?
  10. In Oathbringer we learnt a couple of interesting new facts about Taln that differentiate him from the other Heralds So we now know that Taln never broke and was never meant to be a Herald in the first place. I have no clear theory as to why this although the former presumably is linked to the later but it does have some interesting potential implications. Were there originally meant to be nine Heralds instead of ten? If there were originally supposed to be ten, who was supposed to be the tenth instead of Taln, as it feels like a waste of a potentially interesting storyline to have the other as some generic human that has no plot meaning? Is the fact that only nine of the heralds ever broke linked to the there being nine Unmade in some way? How did Taln come to be involved in the Oathpact if he was not intended to be a Herald? What was Taln before he was a Herald and was that linked to him being the 'bearer of all agonies'? I don't know the answers to the questions, although for the last I think it would be thematically nice (if cliché) for Taln's lowly background being the source of his incredible will, but I think they are worth discussing and I love to hear people's thoughts
  11. This is my Public Service Announcement- Taln is now my adopted character. He's the most honorable person on Roshar. Storms, he was still gracious to Ash. So if you have beef with Taln, you'll be going through the Steeldancer first. *cracks knuckles* on a slightly related topic, who else thinks it's dope that Naln bonded a Highspren? That's pretty cool. What is his surge binding efficiency like?
  12. Hi guys! So we are a doing a words of radiance reread and I came across this. In interlude 7 of words of radiance, Dalinar and Eholkar visit Taln ( or the man who calls himself Taln) and they can't understand most of what he says because according to Dalinar he is speaking in a very think northern rural alethi accent. In chapter 63 of words of radiance, Shallan visits Taln and she is able to clearly understand whatever he says. Infact she even comments that the person was speaking in perfect alethi. Are there any theories or WoB on this? I know people discuss his blade more often, but I have not come across this any where.
  13. What follows is my current theory on how the 10 Heralds became the 10 fool's through the coarse of the Desolations. I will update this post as it evolves. I will try to provide links to all WOB. Quotes will come from the kindle versions of the books via cut and paste. I will list book, chapter, and location number. Bold will be my emphasis. Italics will be possible contradictory evidence. Number 18 here From Reddit Fantasy Bookclub Q&A with Brandon Sanderson Feb 28th, 2011 We will start with this quote which shows us all Heralds were in WOK. First, the Desolations occurred when the Heralds were sent back to Roshar after one of them broke under the torture of Odium. Second, each Herald is associated with a primary and secondary Divine Attribute. (Possibly primary from Honor, Secondary from Cultivation?) Third, the torture does not happen in the physical realm. It occurs in either the cognitive, or more likely the spiritual realm. Fourth, when Odium breaks a Herald, he is literally breaking part of that Heralds spiritual connection to the Divine Attribute. Fifth, Odium's goal was to break all the Heralds and bring about the the Everstorm, allowing him to shatter Honor and Cultivation. Sixth, breaking the Divine Attributes shifted them towards something more compatible with Odium and less compatible with Honor. This resulted in the attributes associated with the 10 Fool's. Number 19 in this WOB, says each is uniquely insane. NOTE: One of the biggliest issues with this theory is not knowing the 10 Fools attributes. Two Fools are named. Two have attributes. Cabine - He acts like a child although he is an adult. TWOK chapter 37, page 593, location 10668 Eshu - He speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do. WOR chapter 71, page 593, location 16877 One issue I have here is that the 2 Heralds I would link these two too are both female. Paliah and Battar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) We have a WOB on this. Not a confirmation, but along those lines. 2) Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. Leading Nale. Just. Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. Builder Talenel. Dependable. Resourceful Ishar. Pious. Guiding 3) Since Odium was attempting to break the Heralds focus on their Divine Attribute, the torture most likely took place in the spiritual realm. The spren would probably know something if it took place in the cognitive realm. One thing pointing to the cognitive realm though is the fact that Taln appeared covered in condensation much like a shardblade. 4) By breaking the Herald, Odium shifted their Primary attribute to closer align with his shard and align less with Honors. This usually resulted in an almost inversion of the attribute. SPECIFICALLY I THINK ONLY THE PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE WAS BROKEN/TWISTED. Below I will show what I think the attribute shifted to after the Devine attribute. Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. (Submission) Leading Nale. Just. (Arbitrary)(Judgement) Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. (Destructive) Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. (Weak-willed) Builder Talenel. Dependable. (Erratic) Resourceful Ishar. Pious. (Traitorous) Guiding These are based off of what we have seen or heard in the books so far. These are not perfect words, but the 17th shard manymind will probably come up with better. There are some subtle indications that only 9 of the 10 fool's have a strong history or mythology. Here is one concerning Lyft and pancakes. I think I subconsciously connected Lyft's silly quest to eat all 10 Pancakes with the 10 fool's. Research could not find a direct correlation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jezrien gives up on protecting humanity personally, submits to the Will of the group, and sacrifices Talenel to uphold the entire oathpact. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nale shifts from Just- working within the accepted standards of right and wrong to Arbitrary- following the rule of law without regards to morality.....he goes straight lawful evil. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 Judgement not Justice. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shalash is pretty clear with her running around destroying art, and significantly art that depicts her and other heralds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kalak is in no way resolute when Jezrien meets him. He is in fact very weak willed, confessing that he cannot go back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Talenel (if it really is him) comes back a broken man, highly erratic and unable to perform his duties as the Herald of War. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ishar formed the Knights Radiant originally, he led the Bondsmiths. He was also the one who promulgated the traitorous idea that 1 Herald could support the Oathpact. From Edgedancer: And And ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) We know there were not literally 99 desolation. I suspect there were 9. One each time Odium broke a Herald. Then the next time that Herald would not be tortured as hard so that about her would break first. Nine also being the number of Odium I believe would work well with this. After the Oathpact was discarded, Odium let humanity rewrite Roshar's history and religion in preparation for the Final Desolation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) The corruption of the 9 Heralds weakened Honor, but the Knights Radiant provided some support, until the Day of Requience when they abandoned all their oaths. Honor shattered shortly after. I have to go back and find some more quotes and WOB to fully support some of this, but I will edit them in as I find them.
  14. So... The Heralds. Lots of interesting things going on here, and I just wanted to make a thread compiling all the information in one place, as well as adding some theories here and there. One thing I find interesting is that Brandon seems to take extra care to not confirm the appearances of any of the Heralds. I believe that even the so-called confirmed Heralds, namely Nalan and Shalash, have actually not been explicitly stated to be who we think they are. With all of the discussion centering around Taln description, Brandon may just have pulled a beautiful distraction from the fact that all the other Heralds are in the same boat as our Mad Talenel. Nevertheless, looking for them throughout the book is quite a bit of fun, and so here it is: The Heralds, and Where to Find Them. (Any information that can be added would be great. I'm probably missing quite a bit...) P.S.: I've included the phrases/curses used in the Heralds' names as I believe they conceal more information than we're giving them credit for. They are obviously each used in specific situations, but they may even be hints towards aspects of the heralds themselves. I believe there's a WoB somewhere that says the Heralds are not necessarily all from Roshar, which can lead to some interesting theories... Jezrien (Jezerezeh/Prime Kadasix/Kadasix of Kings): Order: Windrunners Physical Description: Regal; Wears blue and white; Young, looking barely into his thirtieth year; Short black beard, neatly trimmed. Quotes: "Praise Yaezir, Herald of Kings. May he lead in wisdom. If he ever stops drooling." (This is the line that implies that the beggar at the feast might actually be Jezrien. More on that below. It also draws a comparison to the "Kadasix of Kings" title. 'Kadasix' seems to be the word for 'Herald' in Azir, as proven in a statement by Nalan below.) Phrases: There don't seem to be any curses in Jezrien's name. The Azir have the "Praise Yaezir," but that's pretty much it. I wonder if that means something... Theories: There's been a theory that Kaladin's predecessor as head of the Cobalt Guard, Niter, is actually Jezrien in disguise. This is mainly due to the fact that Niter wears the Kholin blue and white, and is described as "tan-faced," with a "black beard, cut short," an extremely similar description to Jezrien's in the prelude. Nale (Nalan/Nin): (Herald of Justice) Order: Skybreakers Physical Description: Dark skin; has a pale crescent birthmark on his cheek; wears a black uniform with a double row of silver buttons down the coat's front, a stiff silver collar poking up from a shirt underneath; thick gloves with collars extending halfway back around his forearms; has a dead, lifeless stare. Quotes: "She glanced down the hallway. She could swear he was glowing faintly, and he was certainly running too quickly. Darkness was awesome too." (If he really is using Stormlight, he may be the Herald who we know took back his Blade. Then again, it may just be one of Nalan's little gadgets...) “The Kadasixes have spoken,” said one of the scions. “The Heralds?” Darkness said. “They have done no such thing. You are mistaken.” (This seems to me to be further proof that 'Darkness' is a Herald (as if it was needed).) Phrases: Nalan's Hand (Used when acknowledging a decision regarding justice) Theories: He is one of the most 'confirmed' Heralds, and is believed to be Darkness, one of the Azish ambassadors at Gavilar's feast, and the one who gives Nightblood to Szeth in the WoR Epilogue. Chana (Chanaranach/Chanarach): Order: Dustbringers (Releasers) Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: "The fastest man e’er known to live. The surest feet e’er known to roam. In time long past, in times I’ve known, he raced the Herald Chan-a-rach." (The fact that Fleet's speed is validated through its comparison to Chana makes sense, seeing as she also has access to the surge of Abrasion which, as Lift has demonstrated, can definitely make one quite fast.) Phrases: Chana knows, Chana help (Used when referring to something that concerns family, more specifically motherhood.) Theories: Vedel (Vedeledev): (Herald of Healing) Order: Edgedancers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Vedeledev's Golden Keys (This is an interesting one. I haven't come up with anything for this one just yet, but there's obviously a story behind this.) Theories: Pali (Pailiah/Paliah): Order: Truthwatchers Physical Description: Unknown (Unless the Palanaeum theory is true, in which case we know she's old...) Quotes: Phrases: Pailiah knew Theories: It is confirmed that the Palanaeum was named after her, but there is a theory that the "berobed female ardent" Shallan sees is actually the Herald Pailiah in disguise. (More below.) Ash (Shalash): (Herald of Beauty) Order: Lightweavers Physical Description: Extremely beautiful; Dark skin; Long, beautiful black hair; "Eyes like a Shin, but tall and lean, like an Alethi"; Hair worn free, reaches down to waist; wears sleek and tight trousers; light violet eyes; wears a thin-bladed sword Quotes: "The mistress has good ears. Strangely good ears." - (WoK pg. 707) "Perhaps I should get myself a Shardblade." (Indicates that not only is the "thin-bladed sword" not a Shardblade, but she likely doesn't have one at all.) "A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal." (This fits with her being Jezrien's daughter (confirmed here), and is also the most solid evidence that the Mistress is Shalash.) “I’m worried about Ash...She's getting worse.” (WoR Prologue - A Herald talking about Shalash's condition to Nalan. Likely referring to her recent destructive streak.) Phrases: Ash's Eyes (Used when referring to something that concerns beauty) Theories: She's destroying pieces of art that she appears in. (This is actually already confirmed.) The reasons for this could be an entire thread all on its own, although I particularly like Argent's theory that the Heralds are rebounding off of their divine attributes. Creativity and Honesty seem to be the exact opposite of breaking in to places and vandalizing art. there is also the quote in the WoR Prologue that mentions how "Ash is getting worse." Cases of destroyed art include a missing Shalash statue in the WoK Prologue (pg. 23), the Baxil Interlude (WoK pg. 707), and Lift noticing a scratched out face in a portrait of the Heralds (WoR pg. 690). Battar (Battah): Order: Elsecallers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Battah send that girl some sense... Theories: Kalak (Kelek): Order: Willshapers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Kelek's Breath, Kelek's Tongue, Kelek knows (It's been postulated for a while that Kelek's Breath may be a hint towards his having come from Nalthis. Something I just thought of, however, is that Kelek's Tongue could also refer to the removal of the God Kings' tongues... Could it be that Kelek has no tongue?) Theories: There is a wounded bridgeman whom Kaladin helps that may turn out to be the Herald Kalak. He reacts slightly differently than the other bridgemen Kaladin cares for, but this is very much just a theory. (More below.) Alternatively, some have theorized that he is the man Nalan is talking to in the WoR Prologue. This seems to have a little more basis to support it. Taln (Talenelat/Talenel): (Herald of War/Stonesinew) Order: Stonewards Physical Description: Dark brown skin and eyes; back beard Quotes: “The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.” —Dated Palaheses, 1173, unknown seconds pre-death. Subject: a wealthy lighteyes. Sample collected secondhand.” "...The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia." Phrases: Talat's Hand, Constellation named Taln's Scar Theories: I have a whole other thread on this. Ishar (Ishi): (Herald of Luck) Order: Bondsmiths Physical Description: Not much. He might have a long beard though, and is probably the scholar-figure of the Heralds. Quotes: Phrases: Ishar's Soul Theories: Is he the beggar mentioned below? The beard does seem to match Ishar's appearance in the Heraldic Icons that appear above certain chapters... ??? (Theorized Heralds): One thing to keep in mind is that Brandon has obviously seeded in certain red herrings with 'Heraldic' descriptions. Regardless, here are some of the more suspicious ones of the bunch: WoK pg. 23 - "A man with a long grey and black beard slumped in the doorway, smiling foolishly--though whether from wine or a weak mind, Szeth could not tell. "Have you seen me?" the man asked with slurred speech. He laughed, then began to speak in gibberish, reaching for the wineskin." (There are arguments for this being either Jezrien or Ishar. He is almost certainly a Herald, however, due to his comment of "Have you seen me?" when there are a line of Herald statues across the hall.) WoK pg. 40 - "The soldier on the other side of Cenn nodded. He was a lanky, red-haired Veden, with a darker tan skin than the Alethi. Why was he fighting in an Alethi army?" WoK pg. 502 - "It turned out to be just an old, berobed female ardent, shuffling with a lantern and followed by a parshman servant... Lit that way--with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves--it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks." (Theorized to be Pali. The reason for this seems to be because we have a WoB saying that the Palanaeum, where Shallan is at the time, was named after her.) WoK pg. 745-746 - "He had dark brown skin and brown eyes, his thick black hair pulled back into a long, braided tail... He didn't have even a hint of an accent. Kaladin had expected him to be Azish because of the dark skin." (This is tentatively theorized to be Kalak, more through process of elimination than anything else.)
  15. From WoK Epilogue: Kholinar on the map: Interesting, no? Why did Taln come back from Braize near the largest city in the area, or near Kholinar, and why was he wet? We have no mention of being wet when Jasnah elsecalls, no? Could he be have swum in through a shardpool or something? Tell me, yah?
  16. @Tariniel "Could it be that the some form of the Heralds' minds are held in their Blades? Being that the Honorblades are a large part of what makes a Herald a Herald, that seems to make sense to me. Taking this a little further, it could be that the Heralds are tortured on Braize, not only until they break, but until they actually die. At least physically. Their minds live on in the Honorblades, which then return to Roshar and are bonded by the bodies which will eventually become the new Heralds. There is even a WoB (It's here, I believe) which says that they can remain on Roshar for a certain period of time before another Desolation begins. That could be a transitional phase when the bodies accustom themselves to holding the Herald's mind within them, allowing for them to be fully adjusted and ready to carry out their individual missions once the Desolation starts. This 'Taln' could simply be the body holding the Herald Talenelat, a suitable explanation for Brandon's cryptic way of referring to him. What do you guys think?" This was a brilliant idea I ran across made by @Tariniel that I wanted to add to with a tiny bit of evidence Here are all the Death Rattles that I believe to be made by Taln This is the first and most related to the above paragraph. That shard of his soul could be the Honorblades. Which could explain that Taln's physical body is still in Braize. While his blade became the man known as Taln once Talenel broke physically in braize, splitting his cognitive shadow (which I also believe to be held in the blades) from his body. This "Shard of his soul" is now on Roshar somewhere... since there is another entire topic related to Talenel's blade I shall just maintain that the "man known as Taln" as said by a WoB must have touched the fallen honorblade and was imprinted or perhaps IS a living Honorblade, A Nightblood esque chracter who is an actual physical human. This is Taln's death in my opinion. Perhaps the most shocking evidence of how devastating the betrayal of the other Heralds really is. Taln stands not just the average every day torment in hell, but rather one compounded. Atlas bearing the weight of a world in my opinion. Also the "Madness of them all" is interesting, since we know the "Heralds are all insane" per WoB, I wonder if perhaps this insanity was still given to the others even though they didn't return to Braize. This last death rattle is Taln's blade returning to Roshar, along with his cognitive shadow to be implanted upon the new Taln. All responses are welcome and arguments appreciated!
  17. After the prologue, we encounter Taln (the Herald of War) at the end of Way of the Kings where he cuts through the city gate using his honorblade. Next in the Words of Radiance, while he is kept in the asylum, Dalinar bonds with Taln's blade. At the end when Dalinar bonds with the Stormfather, he hears screams from the same 'blade' indicating it was a Shardblade. So, what happened to Taln's 'honorblade'? Was it swapped 'offscreen'? If so, any theories regarding the swap and who might have done it?
  18. I hate the Heralds. From stupid self deprecating Shallash to abusive and misled Naln. Every single one of them is a traitor of the highest magnitude that deserves a fate worse than Sadeas, after not only did they abandon a friend to a fate far worse than death, they LIED about it. No. No forgiveness for Naln after Edgedancer from THIS angry reader. Only Taln is exempt from my anger, someone who held out for 4500 years of torture suffering the fate of TEN people, but for one man... I can't WAIT for him to come to his senses, because he's going to have one HELL of a problem with those who left him behind. Can someone please give me a reason that they should not be universally reviled by every single reader of the SA!? Pity is not acceptable in my opiion, I wouldn't have care if they had ALL given up the Oathpact, but they left Taln behind. Sacrificed him, while they went on to have their minds break NOT because of 4500 years of torture, but because they were just too irresponsible and stupid to hold it together. *Takes deep breaths* I could be wrong, but since we have a WoB that says I don't know why they deserve anything good coming to them.
  19. I have seen some references to this in other posts, but I have not yet found any answer or deep discussion on this... So, my main question is why/how did Taln resist in Damnation for 4500 years this time? The common answer is about his stubbornness, but I think that make no sense. Previously, ALL the heralds were in Damnation. Previously, Taln was in Damnation? Previously, the Desolations happen only hundreds of years apart. Now, when only one the heralds went to Damnation, it resisted for much longer?? Something is not quite right where... Some ideas: I have seen the suggestion that Odium plan for it. More time between Desolations mean more time for Humanity to forget how to deal with them (I don't know how to link to that post). Make sense, but then why chose a situation in which all other 9 Heralds are free?! Would it be better for Odium if all/most of them are trapped and only arrive on Roshar close to the Final Desolation? By allowing them to stay in Roshar it was possible for them to organize/teach people how to fight in the Desolation... As a side point, why the hell none of the Heralds did this?!?! I realize that they brook their oath. They might even be weaker (see Nale) because of it. But why did they completely abandon humanity? One of them at least should have kept teaching how to fight in the next desolation... Is it possible that the lie about Knights Radiant bringing Desolations was the reason for the Recreance? And it's not a complete lie and indeed the presence of many KR somehow bring the Desolations closer? Maybe this is why the gap was much larger (small number of KR in Roshar). The logic might be that KR use power from Honor/Cultivation. This weaken the grip of the prison for Odium and allow for the Desolation to happen. Maybe this was why the KR brook their oats! I saw the theory that the next Desolation starts when the FIRST Herald fail to endure the torture in Damnation (I always thought it would be when the LAST Herald fail). This would work for the time problem (Taln endure much more than any of the others). However, by rereading the prologue of TWoK this does not seem to be the believe of the Heralds. Related: - Why did KR start appearing close to a Desolation? What defines someone as potential KR and what decides whether the person will really be a KR? As conclusion, I think there might be something we are misinterpreting regarding Desolations/Oathpact/KR/Heralds. When things don't add up with Brandon, that indicates he is playing with us
  20. I looked and I could find this theory being discussed so here we go. this assumes that Talnfrom the end of WoK is Talenel. Also that his shardblade is an Honorblade but by the time he gets the the shattered planes it has been switched to a normal shardblade. most of my info is from the coppermind. Basically I think Hoid took Talenel's Honorblade. We know he has acquired a significant amount of Breath and that he took a Lerasium pellet from the Well of Ascension. I'm sure there is other evidence that he is gathering "powers" from different worlds. With an Honorblade he would have both a shardblade and the surges affiliated with Talenel's order. Thats the whole reason Hoid is waiting for Taln. All Hoid needs is to have acquired an unknown shardblade and switch them without anyone knowing. Hoid has proved pretty resourceful in the past so I don't see a problem.
  21. Major characters! CLICK HERE to open up full size. CLICK HERE to open up mini version to use in the new profile's cover photo. It fits!! I drew Sadeas to have a punchable face, and Amaram to be less punchable because he's supposed to be a smarmy smug wannabe-Radiant who looks like a normal dude from the outside. I imagined him to be late 30's or almost or about 40, because Jasnah was 34 as of WoK and he was her almost-husband. Taravangian is supposed to be like a wise sage kungfu master grandpa, who looks harmless. Taln wears yellow because topazes are the gemstone of the Stonewards, but later I looked it up and found out that topazes can come in other colours than orangey-yellow, but it was too late for that. Wit has a medieval pageboy haircut because his job is to something like a King's minstrel and his blue eyes are somewhere in between light and dark.
  22. I think that the following death rattle deals with the mystery surrounding Taln. Now, we know that it's most likely that the person we think is Taln is some sort of imposter. We know this because of a WoB where he refuses to confirm that the person who claims to be Taln is who he says he is. So we are left with several questions. Mainly, who is this imposter, where did he come from and how did he get Taln's Shardblade? My theory is as follows. The death rattle quoted above refers to both Taln and his imposter. They are the two dead men who came from the pit. "The pit" would be referring to Braize, the purgatory where the heralds are relegated to in between Desolations. The "heart in their hands" is referring to Taln's Honorblade. Remember, before the Blade got switched out for a plain old Shardblade, the blade that Taln's imposter was carrying seems to be an Honorblade. I think that the Honorblade is instrumental in returning the Heralds from Braize to Roshar. They certainly grant investiture as evidenced by Szeth's manifestation of windrunner abilities. It's not too much of a stretch to say that the Honorblade is the "heart" that they are holding. "True Glory" can refer to one of two things. The obvious thing is the glory of a herald. The other requires me to elaborate on my theory. Here's what I think happened. Someone came to Braize to rescue Taln or to inform him of the coming Desolation. He would have to be a worldhopper and a powerful one at that to survive the hellfires of Braize. We see evidence of his power when he catches the poisonous darts fired at Amaram mid-flight. This however doesn't seem to match what we know as Heraldic powers. The heralds' powers I believe were just stronger versions of the knights radiant. For example, Jezrien would've been a really strong Windrunner, perhaps an immortal one in terms of aging. However, the heralds were not supermen. Superspeed was not, as far as I know in their repertoire. Nor is it in the repertoire of any of the invested beings on Roshar as far as I know. Maybe he's a Feruchemist (unlikely, but he could have tapped speed, after all his hand motion is described as a blur.) Regardless, his powers are not those of a Rosharian. So he goes to save Taln. He finds him, but Taln refuses to leave Braize. He feels that he must hold to the oathpact for fear of letting Odium free. The Oathpact is, I assume, what has bound Odium to the Rosharian System. However, he still feels the need to send help. Therefore he sends his Honorblade with the imposter and instructs him to help the Rosharians. Something goes wrong and the imposter loses his mind. Not sure why. The "Glory"is the sacrafice made by Taln in order to uphold the Oathpact. Wooooo..... Okay so hopefully most of that wasn't nonsense. Please comment and tell me what you think. P.S. I do think that the imposter is someone that Hoid knew. He refers to him as "My confused, unfortunate friend." Perhaps this was a friend of Hoid's on some previous Hoid adventure.
  23. I believe we need some topic which would compile all the WoBs and hints and quotes and stuff we know about Taln. Taln - the one who showed up at the end of WoK Talenel - the Herald, Stonesinew They may be the same person, but for practical purposes we're gonna use these names to distinguish them. Brandon refuses to call this person Taln. Instead he says "person who calls himself Taln". Post what you know (with sources!), and I will add that to the main post every few days. Edit: I am going to read through this thread for information. I do not want this thread to become a place for theories, I want solid facts and quotes. Of course we can argue about their meaning, but I ask you to limit our discussion to only this, please.
  24. So, I've been thinking on this for a while, and wanted some extra insight on it. So, at the end of Words of Radience, as Dalinar bonds with the Stormfather, the Stormfather makes him cast aside the Shardblade he is bonded to. Because of the Amaram subplot, we know Dalinar is currently bonded with Taln's(the madman we assume to be the Herald) blade, which, if he is in fact a Herald, would make this blade an Honorblade. However, when Dalinar summons it, he still hears the screams of the dead spren. However, when Kaladin took Szeth's Honorblade, he heard no screams. Does this mean that the man we assume to be Taln the Herald is not in fact the Herald? Or does it mean that Taln lost his Honorblade somewhere along the way? Any input is greatly appreciated. I hope I got some of ya'll's gears turning.
  25. what if

    It's rather unnerving that Brandon refuses to call the man who showed up at the end of the Way Of Kings 'Talenel'. He talks about him "the man who calls himself Taln". One theory is that Talenel is so broken that he is not the man he was anymore. So he used to be Talenel, but that man is dead. Simple explanation, could be probable, but I am not sure Brandon actually would have gone with that. Here is some ungrounded theorising without (almost) any proof. Since this "Taln" (from now on I will simply call him Taln and the "real" Herald Talenel'Elin) thinks about constant torture and fire and his mantra is something a Herald could definitely say, then I suppose he really was in Damnation (on Braize). Since Talenel was there for 4500 years, somebody who was there with him could definitely have his words ingrained (is this good word?) in his mind. Even if he does not know the language it is spoken in (but I suppose Shardholder would know). Well, of course there could be another inhabitant of Braize, nobody said that Heralds are the only ones tortured by Odium. But Hoid seems to know him - well, I suppose he knows Heralds, but that is not what we're talking about here - and Hoid knew Rayse. So it could be him. Now, how the hell Rayse ended up in this situation? Maybe he got sick of being force of evil, maybe his mind broke from this constant hatred, maybe he couldn't cope with being responsible for so many genocides and death of his fellow Shardholders. Maybe he gave up Odium and switched with someone, then went to atone for his deeds in place of Talenel. Maybe the person he switched with was Talenel and Talenel took up Odium. Or maybe Talenel soloed him and won. Well, he already was in place which he couldn't die in, no matter the damage done to him. He was effectively immortal and even had his Honorblade! Who could stop him from going against Odium? Of course, the Oathpact and mechanism of Desolations may be grounded on him being tortured, but Talenel could have finally broken after thousand or two of torture meant for ten people and gone rampage. And killed defeated Rayse, but was forced to take his place. Or maybe someone entirely different took up Odium. But before Odium changed holders, he activated the time-trigger and the Desolation still was started eventually (remember, the start is when voidspren are released, the rest is just matter of time). The important bit is that Rayse was exposed to Heralds' Torture, broke, and was finally released to Roshar, and anything that was left in his mind was the words that Talenel repeated for thousands of years. Yeah, yeah, I know it's far fetched, but this whole thing with "Taln" is boiling my mind Disclaimer: I don't really believe that Taln is Rayse. I just thought "hey, what if... the man we thought was Herald is in fact the person who held the power which is a Big Bad?"