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Found 6 results

  1. What exactly are we supposed to expect of the Heralds in the coming books? I would love to see Taln come to deal with his madness in someway, be reunited with his honorblade and lead men against the fused as he once did, but I doubt that would actually happen. So what can we expect of the Heralds instead? Are they so much of a wildcard that they will hinder Dalinar's quest? Will they help out and assist the Radants? Will they turn and support Odium? (is it even possible for a Herald to do this?) Maybe they'll just exist and not do much, but I highly doubt that. Will Moash/Vyre go around and pick them off one by one? I hope this isn't the case, but who knows. I'm eager to know what you all think and if we have any hints to base our guesses on.
  2. What follows is my current theory on how the 10 Heralds became the 10 fool's through the coarse of the Desolations. I will update this post as it evolves. I will try to provide links to all WOB. Quotes will come from the kindle versions of the books via cut and paste. I will list book, chapter, and location number. Bold will be my emphasis. Italics will be possible contradictory evidence. Number 18 here From Reddit Fantasy Bookclub Q&A with Brandon Sanderson Feb 28th, 2011 We will start with this quote which shows us all Heralds were in WOK. First, the Desolations occurred when the Heralds were sent back to Roshar after one of them broke under the torture of Odium. Second, each Herald is associated with a primary and secondary Divine Attribute. (Possibly primary from Honor, Secondary from Cultivation?) Third, the torture does not happen in the physical realm. It occurs in either the cognitive, or more likely the spiritual realm. Fourth, when Odium breaks a Herald, he is literally breaking part of that Heralds spiritual connection to the Divine Attribute. Fifth, Odium's goal was to break all the Heralds and bring about the the Everstorm, allowing him to shatter Honor and Cultivation. Sixth, breaking the Divine Attributes shifted them towards something more compatible with Odium and less compatible with Honor. This resulted in the attributes associated with the 10 Fool's. Number 19 in this WOB, says each is uniquely insane. NOTE: One of the biggliest issues with this theory is not knowing the 10 Fools attributes. Two Fools are named. Two have attributes. Cabine - He acts like a child although he is an adult. TWOK chapter 37, page 593, location 10668 Eshu - He speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do. WOR chapter 71, page 593, location 16877 One issue I have here is that the 2 Heralds I would link these two too are both female. Paliah and Battar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) We have a WOB on this. Not a confirmation, but along those lines. 2) Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. Leading Nale. Just. Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. Builder Talenel. Dependable. Resourceful Ishar. Pious. Guiding 3) Since Odium was attempting to break the Heralds focus on their Divine Attribute, the torture most likely took place in the spiritual realm. The spren would probably know something if it took place in the cognitive realm. One thing pointing to the cognitive realm though is the fact that Taln appeared covered in condensation much like a shardblade. 4) By breaking the Herald, Odium shifted their Primary attribute to closer align with his shard and align less with Honors. This usually resulted in an almost inversion of the attribute. SPECIFICALLY I THINK ONLY THE PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE WAS BROKEN/TWISTED. Below I will show what I think the attribute shifted to after the Devine attribute. Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. (Submission) Leading Nale. Just. (Arbitrary)(Judgement) Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. (Destructive) Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. (Weak-willed) Builder Talenel. Dependable. (Erratic) Resourceful Ishar. Pious. (Traitorous) Guiding These are based off of what we have seen or heard in the books so far. These are not perfect words, but the 17th shard manymind will probably come up with better. There are some subtle indications that only 9 of the 10 fool's have a strong history or mythology. Here is one concerning Lyft and pancakes. I think I subconsciously connected Lyft's silly quest to eat all 10 Pancakes with the 10 fool's. Research could not find a direct correlation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jezrien gives up on protecting humanity personally, submits to the Will of the group, and sacrifices Talenel to uphold the entire oathpact. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nale shifts from Just- working within the accepted standards of right and wrong to Arbitrary- following the rule of law without regards to morality.....he goes straight lawful evil. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 Judgement not Justice. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shalash is pretty clear with her running around destroying art, and significantly art that depicts her and other heralds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kalak is in no way resolute when Jezrien meets him. He is in fact very weak willed, confessing that he cannot go back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Talenel (if it really is him) comes back a broken man, highly erratic and unable to perform his duties as the Herald of War. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ishar formed the Knights Radiant originally, he led the Bondsmiths. He was also the one who promulgated the traitorous idea that 1 Herald could support the Oathpact. From Edgedancer: And And ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) We know there were not literally 99 desolation. I suspect there were 9. One each time Odium broke a Herald. Then the next time that Herald would not be tortured as hard so that about her would break first. Nine also being the number of Odium I believe would work well with this. After the Oathpact was discarded, Odium let humanity rewrite Roshar's history and religion in preparation for the Final Desolation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) The corruption of the 9 Heralds weakened Honor, but the Knights Radiant provided some support, until the Day of Requience when they abandoned all their oaths. Honor shattered shortly after. I have to go back and find some more quotes and WOB to fully support some of this, but I will edit them in as I find them.
  3. What We Know: Brandon, for some unknown reason, refuses to acknowledge this 'Taln' as the Herald Talenelat. He continually refers to him as "the man who calls himself Taln..." This 'Taln' does, however, display certain physical characteristics that have been associated with descriptions of the Heralds before. Namely, he has "dark skin," and speaks "perfect Alethi," without any "hint of an accent." He also catches darts at hyper-speed... He only speaks perfect Alethi in his first appearance by the gates of Kholinar. His accent changes to something like gibberish when Elhokar and Dalinar are 'interrogating' him. Further proof that something strange is going on is his apparent inability to immediately know who he is, as demonstrated by his hesitation ("Who am I? I... I am Talenel'Elin, Stonesinew..."). (I'm pretty sure this happens somewhere else, but I can't remember where, at the moment.) Theories: Here's a compilation of some of the theories I've seen regarding the dual identity of this character: He's the same Taln, but he's been broken over 4500 years of constant torture. Seems to imply that Brandon is just trolling us with his description, which seems highly unlikely to me considering the strange inconsistencies mentioned above. He's someone else (likely a Herald overcome with remorse) who went to the Nightwatcher and asked her to release Taln. The way she 'fulfilled' his wish was by placing Taln's mind in his body, thereby 'releasing' him. This seems plausible; the only issue I have with it is that it seems that just because we don't know the limitations of the Old Magic, we ascribe any unexplained occurrence to the Nightwatcher... Similar to the above, but removing the Nightwatcher aspect. Maybe he's just a Herald overcome by grief, who has developed a multiple personality syndrome as a way to cope. He could be an Aimian impersonating the Herald Talenelat, though that does not explain how he has the memories of being tortured on Braize or knows so much about the role of the Heralds. This is a little far-fetched, but, now that I think about it, he could just be a really good actor that is impersonating Taln... The current Comere-connecting theories are that he's either a kandra, Forgery, or Hemalurgy was involved. (BTW, if we're ruling in Scadrial Investiture, Allomancy could just as easily be an explanation for his lightning-fast reflexes...) My Theory: There is a chance that this has been said before, considering how long the books have been out for, although I did search for it and couldn't find this specific theory anywhere... If it is somewhere, hopefully I'll add something new to the discussion or provoke some new thoughts. Here goes: Could it be that the some form of the Heralds' minds are held in their Blades? Being that the Honorblades are a large part of what makes a Herald a Herald, that seems to make sense to me. Taking this a little further, it could be that the Heralds are tortured on Braize, not only until they break, but until they actually die. At least physically. Their minds live on in the Honorblades, which then return to Roshar and are bonded by the bodies which will eventually become the new Heralds. There is even a WoB (It's here, I believe) which says that they can remain on Roshar for a certain period of time before another Desolation begins. That could be a transitional phase when the bodies accustom themselves to holding the Herald's mind within them, allowing for them to be fully adjusted and ready to carry out their individual missions once the Desolation starts. This 'Taln' could simply be the body holding the Herald Talenelat, a suitable explanation for Brandon's cryptic way of referring to him. What do you guys think? (Now that I'm thinking about it, there is the issue that Brandon doesn't refer to the other Heralds we know of (Nalan and Shalash, for example) in this same obscure manner. Is there a way you can think to explain this or is my theory drowned already...)
  4. So I was reading through WoK again and I was struck by something I have never heard anyone discuss. So maybe it's nothing. Anyway, on Kaladin's first bridge run he is encouraged by a nameless bridgeman who, during the plateau assault, refers to Talenelat as "bearer of all agonies." The nameless bridge man dies shortly after, and Kaladin takes his padded vest and sandals. My question/thought is: how would anyone know to call the Herald of War by this title? Is it referring to his torture in Damnation, or just his role/function as a Herald? And if so, was it common knowledge that the Heralds returned to Damnation between Desolations? And if so, since the previous Desolation was the "last" one, why would anyone think that a Herald would return there? After all, aren't they all supposedly fighting to retake the Tranquiline Halls from the Voidbringers? I have a suspicion that this nameless bridgeman either knew something he shouldn't, or was someone special. If he was someone special, (like a HERALD!!!!) is he really dead? And if so, are there any unforeseen consequences due to his death? Or is this all just a meaningless tangent?
  5. what if

    It's rather unnerving that Brandon refuses to call the man who showed up at the end of the Way Of Kings 'Talenel'. He talks about him "the man who calls himself Taln". One theory is that Talenel is so broken that he is not the man he was anymore. So he used to be Talenel, but that man is dead. Simple explanation, could be probable, but I am not sure Brandon actually would have gone with that. Here is some ungrounded theorising without (almost) any proof. Since this "Taln" (from now on I will simply call him Taln and the "real" Herald Talenel'Elin) thinks about constant torture and fire and his mantra is something a Herald could definitely say, then I suppose he really was in Damnation (on Braize). Since Talenel was there for 4500 years, somebody who was there with him could definitely have his words ingrained (is this good word?) in his mind. Even if he does not know the language it is spoken in (but I suppose Shardholder would know). Well, of course there could be another inhabitant of Braize, nobody said that Heralds are the only ones tortured by Odium. But Hoid seems to know him - well, I suppose he knows Heralds, but that is not what we're talking about here - and Hoid knew Rayse. So it could be him. Now, how the hell Rayse ended up in this situation? Maybe he got sick of being force of evil, maybe his mind broke from this constant hatred, maybe he couldn't cope with being responsible for so many genocides and death of his fellow Shardholders. Maybe he gave up Odium and switched with someone, then went to atone for his deeds in place of Talenel. Maybe the person he switched with was Talenel and Talenel took up Odium. Or maybe Talenel soloed him and won. Well, he already was in place which he couldn't die in, no matter the damage done to him. He was effectively immortal and even had his Honorblade! Who could stop him from going against Odium? Of course, the Oathpact and mechanism of Desolations may be grounded on him being tortured, but Talenel could have finally broken after thousand or two of torture meant for ten people and gone rampage. And killed defeated Rayse, but was forced to take his place. Or maybe someone entirely different took up Odium. But before Odium changed holders, he activated the time-trigger and the Desolation still was started eventually (remember, the start is when voidspren are released, the rest is just matter of time). The important bit is that Rayse was exposed to Heralds' Torture, broke, and was finally released to Roshar, and anything that was left in his mind was the words that Talenel repeated for thousands of years. Yeah, yeah, I know it's far fetched, but this whole thing with "Taln" is boiling my mind Disclaimer: I don't really believe that Taln is Rayse. I just thought "hey, what if... the man we thought was Herald is in fact the person who held the power which is a Big Bad?"
  6. Ok in the Prelude to TWoK Talenel (Taln, Talenelat, Talenel'Elin) dies and his honorblade vanishes, so that there are only 9 left in the circle. In Words of Radiance, doesn't Dalinar bond Talenel'Elin's honorblade? And if Dalinar DID bond the honorblade, as WoR mentions in multiple places that Dalinar had bonded "that madman's blade". Why, at the end of WoR, does the blade that Dalinar has bonded start screaming inside his head after Dalinar swears his second oath, and The Stormfather refer to the blade as a "monstrosity"?? Especially if Szeth had an honorblade, and it did not scream in Kaladin's mind.