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Found 14 results

  1. Ok, so bear with me on this one. Something has been bothering me, like many who read Oathbringer, ever since Odium said "We killed you." Like many Stormlight fans, I have been mentally (and literally) screaming "What do you mean by WE!" And anyway I've done some thinking, and I think that Unity, instead of a new Shard, as many have theorized, is actually and old Shard that used to live on Roshar. A Shard that was (presumably) killed by Odium and ((possibly Honor?)) (((Working together?))) There is a little possible evidence for this. In the death rattles, one of them goes like "Three of Sixteen ruled, now the broken one reigns" or something like that. Feel free to correct that. Anyway, the way that is worded makes it seem like Odium, the broken one, is not in that original three. Also, since we know there are 3 god-spren--the Storm dad, Nightwatcher, and the Sibling, that leads me to believe that there used to be 3 Shards other than Odium, since it doesn't make sense to me that a Knight Raidiant would bond to a spren of Odium, or that Cultivation or Honor would have two god-spren. That other Shard, Unity, was not liked by Honor or Cultivation or any other Shard. Which makes sense, because they might feel threatened by the fact that he might try to Unite the Shards back into Adonalsium or something. I'm thinking that the Cryptics might be spren of Unity, which is why nobody likes them. It also just makes sense, because math and lies don't really make sense as belonging to Honor or Cultivation, but I can see Unity liking the fact that math is a unifying principle of the universe or something like that. Also, it would make sense because the Dawn Cities are all math based, and they are linked the Uthirthiru in some way ( I think theres a line about the strata being similar? And they both are grown out of rock? Feel free to check that.) And we know that the sibling was related to the tower city as well. So, if the Sibling is a spren of Unity, it all works out. Honor or Cultivation (or both) wanted to get rid of him, but couldn't due to limitation based on their Shard Intent. Neither of them could kill Unity, so they invited Odium, knowing his violent reputation, to come on over to Roshar so he could take care of Unity. That also explains why Odium was allowed onto Roshar on the first place, because I feel like two Shards working together could have blocked him from coming there, if they so wished. Anyway, Odium splintered Unity (possibly with help from one or more of the other Shards) and decided to stay. Eventually, he also splintered Honor, and Cultivation went into hiding. A part of Unity survived, and may have been that voice that's been guiding Dalinar since Book One. That voice seems really distinct from the Stormfather, and I think he once even said so in Oathbringer that he wasn't talking when Dalinar heard the "Unite them" voice. The light that Dalinar feels at the end of books Two and Three may also be the effects of Unity. Dalinar was able to briefly hold whatever is left of Unity, which allowed him to summon the Perpendicularity and all that fun stuff at the end of Book 3. I think that as the books progress, we will only keep on seeing how Unity is actually separate, and wants to be revived. Some odd bits: The splintering might have been the Scouring of Aimia. The Aimians that are a bunch of cremlings seem like something that Unity might have created or liked (since it's a bunch of cremlings unified into one creature) and he might have lived in Aimia. The Unmade might be corrupted Splinters of Unity. I don't think that Odium could have nine relatively large spren of himself and still remain as powerful as he is, so I think he corrupted the Splinters of Unity after he killed him, and those became the Unmade. Obviously, it isn't a perfect theory. And if you've made it to the bottom, congrats on somehow getting through all my disorganized thoughts. Anyway, I want to know what you think, so please feel free to share your thoughts on my theory!
  2. Probably another question that we’ll never get any kind of canonical answer to, but I was wondering whether or not it would at least in principle be possible to damage or even splinter a Shard using what might be called ‘conventional’ means? For example, Brandon has said that the island Patji on First of the Sun is in some sense a Shard, presumably one of Autonomy’s avatars. So what would happen if you physically obliterated the whole island? If the Ones Above for whatever reason decided to drop a micro quantum buster on it or something. Or probably more reasonably, if you somehow managed to catch a Shard’s physical manifestation (which incidentally is what the term ‘avatar’ probably should actually mean in this context) by surprise. If Szeth managed to impale Odium’s ‘avatar’ with Nightblood or a Shardblade, or again someone just dropped a doomsday bomb on it. Is it possible for a purely physical attack of any kind to harm a Shard, do we think? Or is it an “only a god can kill another god” type of situation?
  3. (Mistborn Era 1 Spoilers) So we know that in HoA, when Vin went against Ati, they both died, due to their technically equal power. What I’m asking, is if two shards ganged up on one shard in a fight, would the one die and the others just be temporarily weakened? Because, if so, Harmony could go around taking out shards whenever he wants. Basically, 2v1 shard fight, who would win and who would die?
  4. I've seen this come up a few times recently, and what finally pushed me to make this topic was @Oversleep's WoB request and @Extesian's response in the stack exchange. So why exactly do we think that a Shard, after its vessel were killed, would self splinter? The only context I could see that in is after the clash of ruin and Preservation. When Vin struck at Ruin, both Shards were heavily damaged. After they dropped I can see that damage allowing the Shards to splinter, not due to any internal action, but the lack of a consciousness to guide and hold itself together. If a shard were to lose its vessel, without its integrity being compromised why would it splinter? If it were that simple, why would Odium need to have dealt with D&D in the manner that he did? Why bother to stuff the Shards into the Cognitive specifically to avoid what we know a Shard without a vessel would do? Seek out a new vessel, and failing that develop sentience. Am I missing something? What reason is there to think that a shard that is whole, when dropped by its vessel, would automatically self splinter?
  5. I don't have Elantris on myself now to check and was discussing with a friend about the Reod. I'm quite sure that the passing of Odium through Sel was too long ago, way before the time of Raoden, spintering Devotion and Dominion (people say D&D... I can only think of Dungeons and Dragons with those letters), and creating the AonDor, thus, in a way, creating elantrians that can use it. This is right, isn't it? What caused the earthquake, the Reod? My friend defends that it was Odium's passing that caused the Reod, the earthquake, while splintering the other Shards. In her opinion, Elantrians existed before the splintering, he thinks they would not be randomly created just because a sudden surplus of energy in the Cognitive... And it would be "too bad" that an earthquake just randomly happens to break the focus point of the magic in that world. She kinda has a point... What is exactly the timeline here? Devotion and Dominion get to Sel, Odium breaks them, Elantrians appear to make use of the AonDor, Raod randomly happens Devotion and Dominion get to Sel, Create Elantrians, Odium breaks both the shards and the land, causing the raod. Third option?
  6. So, essentially, from this WoB, we can determine that the method of Splintering is the same as the original Shattering, and that this will hold true across all levels further down the line too. What I want to know is if the original 16 Shardholders were all present with Hoid at the EXACT moment of Adonalsiums shattering. If so, then wouldn't they all technically know how to splinter/shatter other Shards? From the information we have, so far the only Shards who have demonstrated knowledge of Splintering are Odium and Autonomy (their misendeavours on Sel). Why would this be the case? Extra question: Which non-Shards, that we are aware of, have knowledge of Splintering? Hoid is an obvious pick, but what about Khriss or other 17th Sharders?
  7. By now, everyone probably know that in the beginning (or at least the beginning of time relevant to us in the Cosmere), there was Adonalsium. He was Shattered by 16 people, who split his power into 16 equal parts, and then separated and went their different ways, some together, some not. Then, after everyone settled down, Odium (formerly known as Rayse) travelled around the Cosmere, splintering Shards as he went. The Splintering split the Shards into Splinters with different Intents to the Shard they were once part of. Now here's the thing; Shattering sounds very much like Splintering: a new Intent? Check; a splitting of the power? Check. This means that the things we know about Splintering can be applied to Shattering, and vice versa. As proven by Sazed, more than one Shard can be held by the same person/entity. This means someone can take a Splinter's power and merge it with another to creat a new Intent, with a greater power than before. This means that Splintering may not be irreversible as once thought, merely difficult to gain enough Splinters to gain power equal to the power held by the Shards. This is no doubt what Odium wanted when he started his killing spree. He may not have been able to destroy the power completely, but could do enough that it made things really hard to gain a power level equal to that of Odium's. Of course, he might have trouble trying to combat Harmony, what with him having the power of two Shards, but that will come later. This means that, eventually, someone may be able to gather the power of all 16 Shards (and their Splinters), and become Adonalsium. Of course, this doesn't make one invincible... Feel free to add anything if you like, since this theory is probably incomplete and needs refining.
  8. Hi guys, i've got two theories (not mutually exclusive) for why Odium can Splinter other Shards. 1.Odium is more powerful than the other Shards. While i've constantly seen references to Adonalsium shattering into sixteen pieces, i don't think i've ever heard mention ofthose pieces being equal in size. Maybe when the Vessels were taking the power Rayse took a bigger chunk of Mr A's corpse. This would enable him to overpower other Shards and kill them whilst still having enough power to survive. 2.Odium's Intent causes the Splintering Odium means extreme hatred and dislike, and also the state of being hated. Hate also causes people to turn away from one another, to divide. What if this applies on a Shardic level as well? What if Odium can infect a Shard with hatred? Self hatred to be exact. Similar to a virus turning a body's immune system against itself, what if it does the same to the Shard, which causes it to fracture and essentially self-splinter. It would also make sense why we haven't seen other Shards do this. For example, Dominion and Devotion, while seemingly different are in the end both about unity. They couldn't Splinter others even if they tried. The same goes for Preservation, Honor and probably Cultivation. This gives Odium a major advantage. Ruin may be able to do it but remember that he was imprisoned by Preservation for millenia and couldn't find enough opportunity to practise. Also, while Rayse was a nasty fellow even before becoming Odium and thus naturally inclined to find a way to kill the others, Ati was supposedly a pretty nice guy. It wouldn't be in his nature to practise this. That's it guys, could be on to something or it could be a load of crem Thanks anyway, interested to hear what you think.
  9. I've suggested before that Devotion and Dominion were originally combined into the shard Unity by their owners Aona and Skai, creating the Dor (check out my theory here). In my reread of TWoK, I believe I've found another piece of evidence that supports this idea. In The Letter, the quote above says that "that which they held has been Splintered," which sounds like it could refer to a singular thing (i.e. the shard Unity). I realize that the singular thing could mean many things (i.e. the power of their shards), but why would Odium go to a planet where two shards could theoretically overpower him? Perhaps he targeted the planet because their Unity shard was so powerful (and a sign of what combined shardic power could be) and he felt that he needed to deal with it before any more power could be combined with other shards (hence why he's so afraid of Harmony). Perhaps this means that Odium is the doom coming to Scadrial, as he wants to deal with Harmony quickly before Sazed becomes more cosmere-aware. We know that he has plans to deal with Harmony - maybe he hopes that by splintering these combined shards before they can make cosmere-wide plans to address Odium's power, he can remain the most powerful force in existence. If Odium is released at the halfway point of The Stormlight Archive, it seems that Mistborn era 2 (or 1.5 however you call it) is right in that same time period.
  10. Recently, I reread Elantris 10th anniversary addition, and notice the extra epilogue on Hoid discussing whether he would succeed in being initiated as an Elantrian with a Skaze, there is a quote that caught my attention: "Yes, they [skaze] did have a wider range of emotions than Hoid had assumed. He needed to be careful not to let interactions with one member of a race - even a synthetic race - color his view of them all." What does Hoid mean by "synthetic"? It could imply that Skaze are artificial, and not something of natural occurrence. Due to the similarity between Seons and Skaze, we can sensibly infer one's characteristics to another. We have known that the Aons in Seons are in face Splinters, but not Seons themselves, which supports further that Seons, similar to Skaze, are artificial. We can infer that if there isn't any interference, these Splinters of Devotion and Dominion will NOT form Seons and Skaze. So who created them? The first possible candidates are Selish, especially those who can access the Dor in a large, significant manner, i.e. Elantrians, and later, Dakhor Monks. However, they do not appear to be viable candidates. First, there is no mention of the creation of Seons in the libraries of Elantris, though it is possible that Raoden has yet to discover related records, but very unlikely, as Elantris had been an advanced society for quite some time, and the lack of mention of the creation of Seons is rather suspicious. Second, even if Elantrians are indeed the ones who creates Seons, it does not explain the creations of Skaze, due to the fact that they are completely oblivious of their existence. Third, it would appear that Skaze has existed as long as Seons, but Dakhor Monks are reasonably a very recent creation of the Fjordell Empire, so they could not possibly be the creators of Skaze. It would seem that, Odium appears to be a pretty viable candidate for the creation of Seons and Skaze. It is known that Odium splintered Devotion and Dominion. It is also known that Seons and Skaze contains or consist tof Splinters. This is pure conjecture, but could it be Odium who creates Seons and Skaze? Could it be That in order to kill a shard, to Splinter a shard, it would take a Shard's investiture, and create something new, so that no one can pick up the shard and become its vessel? I originally want to involve Sprens, but as I do my research I discover many inconsistencies and sophistication involving the nature of them, so I will just leave it as it is for now. The main question I asked today, is that did Odium created Seons and Skaze, as the product or result of Splintering Dominion and Devotion?
  11. Following is analysis and interpretation of how Selish magic came to be and how it currently works. Aona and Skai were lovers pre-Shattering. They continued their relationship post-Shattering, as Shards (presumably on a more Platonic basis, both literally and figuratively). Pre-splintering, Dominion’s investiture provided access to the magic, wherever on Sel one was. This is the “forms programming” aspect of Selish magic that MISTER Sanderson has described. Dominion thus gave Selians (?) the cognitive commands necessary to use his and Devotion’s power – just like the control freak you’d expect someone named “Dominion” to be. I speculate that the power, even then, was similar to the Dor – a combination of Dominion’s and Devotion’s investiture reflecting their relationship, their magic intertwined and combined. It might even have been the Dor itself, since (using the Roshar precedent) splintering doesn’t appear to affect a Shard’s power as much as its mind, the cognitive means of directing the power. I further speculate that the solid state of Dominion’s “body,” its latent Physical Realm power, existed on that moon that Shai believes disintegrated and fell to Sel to become, among other things, soulstone. (Shai…Skai…Skaa...coincidence?) I believe that Devotion’s solid body was located in or near the chasm that the earthquake created. I base this conclusion on various characters exclaiming, “Domi below.” Those statements suggest that Devotion’s worshippers (ignore the name for a moment) thought she resided in the planet. Odium now splinters the two of them. Though this is “taxing” on him, splintering these two Shards is probably easier than any other pair, because they had created a single magic system from their investiture – it was like splintering a single Shard. Splintering caused Dominion’s body to collapse into meteors falling over Sel. Everywhere his investiture fell, a NEW FORM for accessing the magic developed. Forgery, Bloodsealing, Dakhor, ChayShan all provide their user access to the Dor. AonDor may be the same, with the Aons providing the cognitive link to the Dor also coming from Dominion, but I’m uncertain. I think Arelon may have always been the place where Devotion was strongest, because of the proximity of her Physical Realm investiture at the chasm. Thus, contrary to everywhere else on Sel, practitioners of Devotion’s magic may have accessed the Dor using Devotion’s own commands. The Dor itself may be an example of mandate-meshing, two magics merging into a third magic, rather than a mere mixture of each. Given the emotional closeness of Dominion and Devotion, I would expect their minds/cognitive investiture to mingle in the Cognitive Realm, changing each of them into something else. These changes may explain why Areloners (?) worship “Domi” and why “Omi” is the Aon for love. An open question is why Dakhor forms of Dor magic didn’t appear until about 300 years before the events of Elantris. I speculate that this Dominion moon meteor may have been buried deep into the ground when it struck and has only recently been uncovered. Alternatively,Dominion's Shardpool may have been discovered near the monastery at that time. MISTER Sanderson has referenced how dangerous Sel’s Cognitive Realm is. We’ve assumed that’s because, post-splintering with the minds of Devotion and Dominion now dead, the Shards’ cognitive investiture did not find other minds through which to exercise power. Thus, bits of their cognitive investiture achieved sentience on their own with “bizarre effects.” I don’t know that there’s a whole lot new here. I just thought I would organize my thoughts on the subject and see what others have to say. Regards all!
  12. I didn't want to thread-jack, and although I'm sure there must be a good thread foe this somewhere, my forum-fu has failed me and I can't find one where this is the focus of the original discussion. So, how is it done? Does Odium wait until a Shard is already weak, before smashing himself against it (as per Vin taking down Ati, but more unbalanced)? I suspect if this was the method, he'd need a long time to recover as he'd inevitably be depleting his own essence by doing so. Others have speculated on the quote from Tanavast, that it may in some way come down to a fight between champions, some kind of Vassal chosen by the Shards. Still others have considered the idea that it in some way involves the larger population of a world, and that Alethkar and the Thrill may be a clue towards this. For myself, I don't know, but it's fun to speculate. As a final point, here's a quote from Elantris, the last line of chapter 6: A simple observation, or the legacy of Odium's visit to Sel? You decide!
  13. We have seen the aftermath of splintering on both Sel and Roshar. In both cases we ended up with some pretty strange magical entities with semi-sentience: Spren on Roshar and Seons on Sel. Why were these created? I've been wondering if raw investiture naturally seeks out cognitive forms to merge with. So when any shard is splintered the unbound investiture combines with things like spren or Aons which represent that planet's cognitive forms. It could be a random thing and not really directed by anyone. Another possibility, the investiture could already have a spiritual form and would seek out the cognitive form that matches best. Perhaps splintering creates an imbalance where pure investiture doesn't have enough substance in the cognitive or physical realms. It needs to combine with a cognitive form and a human host to restore realmatic balance. Without this balance the Shardic power cannot be controlled and if left unchecked will lead to catastrophic consequences.
  14. So I just finished HoA again today, and there were a few things that stuck out to me: 1. The mist that seeps out of vin/sazed when they're holding preservation's power (or ruin's) is really really similar to how stormlight leaks from surgebinders. I know there was a Q&A I read recently where stormlight (highstorms?) was similar to the mist from mistborn, and that we didn't have a name for it. Just thought that was interesting. 2. When sazed picked up Ruin and Preservation, he essentially created a "new" shard because he was of a single mind how to use the opposing powers. They function as one shard now, and WoB said that if Sazed were to die, he would drop harmony, not ruin and preservation (though they could be separated again). This made me think that Adonalsium could be put back together eventually. Extrapolating in the other direction, would it be possible for Honor (or other splintered shards) to be rebuilt? Obviously, there's a lot about splintering that we don't know, but it seems at least like a plausible idea. What do you guys think?