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Found 24 results

  1. WoB tells us that it would be possible to Replicate Singer Forms with Hemalurgy. As far as I know, we don't knwo details for how exactly that would work, but it would still be fun to speculate, wouldn't it? So, to maybe spark some fun debate and conversation: Let's say our Hemalurgist (as in, someone with the knowledge of Hemalurgy, wherever they originate from) is aware that it might be advisable to spike just one Singer rather than going around becoming a living embodiment of the song of forms. Question 1: What forms would be attractive? Especially, what particular forms would be attractive to particular worldhoppers? Warform sounds like the simple attractive one, in my opinion, especially for someone who is already a Pewterarm. But maybe an Elantrian would prefer Scholarform? Do you think a Seeker (Bronze) who spikes a Singer with a Form of Power could hear Odium's Rythms too, or would they need a Voidspren for that too? Could any other kind of Cosmere Magic make stormform's lightning abilities more reliable? Maybe a Coinshot would be able to shoot a piece of conductive metal behind you, then use that to direct the Lightning in that direction? This is the wildest and most destructive use I've come up with so far. Certainly, Envoyform is very useful if you plan to travel the Cosmere a lot. Question 2: Or even if you decide to spike not the form, but the ability to grow a Gemheart - what Spren would be nice to take with you, if you managed to attract one? Anyway, that's just my thoughts. I'd love to hear thoughts from other people on this! (Note: I haven't quite finished RoW yet, so spoiler tags would still be appreciated)
  2. So here's my idea. Remember how Navani could faintly feel the rhythms only when she was touching a large amount of Stormlight? Thus proving the rhythms really do come from it? Well, in Mistborn, burning Bronze let a Mistborn hear the Rhythms of other allomancers, therefore giving them the ability to tell which metal they were using. Coincidence? Correlation? Thoughts?
  3. We all know of the rhythms on roshar, the singers and larkins hear them, and can use them to manipulate their own emotion. But what about the rhythms elsewhere, like on Scadrial: 1.if a seeker were to burn bronze on roshar they would sense the rhythms, but if a singer can hear rhythms even if they were born off world. So it seems like the rhythms pervade the cosmere but have a special connection to roshar. Additionally it seems like bronze sensing and rhythm hearing may be connected as bronze can hear rhythms, as bronze can hear rhythms and bronze pulses would be “familiar” to a singer. 2. Rhythms and Soothing appear to act very similarly. Both can manipulate emotions and both (as you can see in the latter case with help with enhanced Seeking) rely on pulsing to do so. And with copper disallowing the user to be affected by Soothing, that would all mental allomantic abilities related to the rhythms in some way. 3. Inquisitor “Throbbing” responds to emotions, could the throbbing be in time with the rhythms? Kar said he felt “the pain of joy”. Regardless, seems there are more to rhythms than meets the eyes
  4. Putting this is the RoW sections because Rlain/Renarin and Kaladin/Leshwi. Okay! So, Singer sexuality. In every form but mateform they pretty much have no sexual desire whatsoever. Also, no one wants to go into mateform because "Yay, mateform, my favorite!" You go into mateform (at least on purpose) for the sole purpose of having children, after having found a person of the opposite sex who you think would make a good partner. At least, that's the overwhelming impression I got from the Singer/Listener POVS. Which makes me wonder if Renarin's crush on Rlain can even be reciprocated. Sure, it's implied that in mateform Rlain is gay, but in warform he has no interest in either dudes or ladies. I mean, if it was a het human/singer pairing, I could at least see the singer saying, "this person seems like she would make a good mother, I suppose I might as well make halfie babies with her." But Rlain doesn't even have that excuse to go into mateform. On that note, for all the people shipping Kaleshwi: Leshwi is almost certainly in a malen body at the end of RoW. As her days of bodysnatching are at an end, well, unless she becomes a Radiant and transitions, she's stuck as biologically malen. So again, no possibility of making crabhuman babies, no reason she'd go mateform with him. If Fused can even do regular forms. Some thoughts of how your favorite ship possibly could get around this: -maybe malens and femalens have something akin to asexual romantic feelings? It's possible they don't choose their mates solely for practical reasons. Not like we've seen any choosing happen, can't disprove anything. -shenanigans involving a singer going out into the storm with a partner and then ending up not compatible. I mean, that's kinda what was implied to have happened with Rlain, right? So you've got a mateform dealing with *urges*, the next highstorm is weeks away, there's a meet-cute with another mateform or a human, hilarity ensues... -adventurous singer willing to "experiment" with their human best bud
  5. This line of thought springs from Leshwi's reaction to finding out about Venli's bond to her spren. The relationship between Singers/Listeners was never explained in depth beyond the fact that Singers/Listeners can trap them in their gemhearts to switch between different forms. In the listeners' songs, there is mention of a betrayal from the spren, but the information has been passed down verbally for many generations, and is therefore very unreliable. In Rhythm of War, Venli reveals her bond and Leshwi's reaction is to wonder whether they have been forgiven for their betrayal. That of course raises the question: What betrayal? Was their bonding with Odium some kind of betrayal? What was their relationship to sentient spren?
  6. So as RoW proved, Singer forms come from nahel bonds with spren in their gemheart. Lifespren for mateform, windspren for nimbleform, etc. We've also seen that Radiant bonds with highspren act differently when the spren is corrupted. So what happens when Singers bond a corrupted lowspren? Do they produce new forms? Old forms with slightly different abilities?We've seen forms of power, but those seem to come from true spren of odium, not just corrupted spren. This is even something that could have happened in previous desolation, unlike the corrupted radiants, because Sja-Anat has been able to corrupt low spren forever.
  7. I’ve been thinking a lot about this. How can Parshmen mate if they can’t turn into mateform? Humans bred them in pens. Is mateform even needed? I’m assuming it’s done through conventional human ways as Herdazian and Horneaters have Parshmen blood in them. Reminds me of my musings on how someone had Koloss blood and could cross breed with humans on Scadrial. Welcome anyone’s ideas.
  8. Hello! I've been trying to work out the timeline for the first events we know that happened in Roshar. We know the Singers "betrayed" the Spren and I am extremely curious! I don't think we have clues about what happened, but this is what we know: 1 - Roshar was inhabited by Singers and the shards Honour and Cultivation 2 - Humans arrive on Roshar after destroying their original planed with surgebinding. Ishar was a bondsmith and the one able to transport the people Odium came with them to Roshar Questions: how did investiture work in Ashyn? Via Honorblades? Did the Honorblades come from Ashyn? If so, why honor blades? 3 - Once the humans arrive, the Singers give then Shinnovar. 4 - We know eventually 2 things happen: Humans start conquering other regions War with the Singers, they betray the spren and loose their connection to them. Is this when the Fused and Unmade show up? 5 - The oath pact is made, the Heralds vanish Odium. Question: what happens with the singers between Desolations (before the false Desolation and imprisonment of BAM)? 6 - Spren imitate the honor blades and give surges to humans. Question: surges are based on Roshar´s surges, were Ashyn ´s the same? Or maybe, the Honorblades and Surges were created after humans came to Roshar... I think this makes more sense. 7 - The cycle of Desolations begin. Lets discuss if this timeline is correct (I'm probably forgetting something!) and what may have happened to make the Singers side with Odium.
  9. I am confused as to whether the listeners expected the Fused to return to Roshar when they summoned the Everstorm. They assassinated Gavilar in order to prevent the Fused from returning. As far as I understand it, they didn't want the Fused to come back and dominate their people. Could they have summoned the Everstorm in such a way that the Fused wouldn't have returned? Was summoning the Fused a way of acknowledging that they had no chance of winning the war against the humans without the help of the Fused?
  10. We have seen Nightform Relayform Direform Stormform Envoyform Of those Stormform and Envoyform are old news. Nightform was in the Songs. Relayform and Direform are completely new. Any idea what they are capable of or how they look?
  11. I just wanted to think for a second about why humans had the ability to bond higher spren but singers, who seem to be fully rational creatures like humans, at least in any form besides dullform and slave form. I think the reason for this has to do with evolution on Roshar and what higher spren get from the Nahel bond: sapience in the physical realm. Humans are physical beings--their cognition is a product of biological processes of the physical realm which obviously are manifested in the cognitive realm, and facilitated by innate investiture in the spiritual realm. The Parsh natives of Roshar evolved on a planet where the cognitive-based investiture was all over the place, and from evolutionary terms, the path of least resistance to developing sapience was a symbiotic process between humanoid and spren, rather than a fully physical process. The result is, obviously, that the sapience of singers is less physically grounded than that of humans, and thus a nahel bond is not nearly as firm a grounding in the physical realm as it is for humans, whose sapience is a result of their physical brains, at least on a material level. I think this is correct, but what has changed recently? Are spren bonding singers like Venli or (hopefully) Rlain even though the bond is less secure because they think it's just the right thing to do, and it CAN serve, just less well, or is there some other difference?
  12. Apologies for the title. Doing that without spoilers is hard. We have seen the Nine. OK, they are creepy. Yet how old are they? Their treatment would not work on normal people. You'd get bed sores, chafing, infection and finally sepsis. As soon as the end results of digestion appear, things get really ugly and lethal quickly. They depend on arcane means of nutrition and healing. Can they be a remnant of the government under Honor and Cultivation? Not really, they were forbidden the power of spren and surges. So it must come from Odium. So how old is it? Did they get Voidlight before their Surges? did the Nine postdate the Surges among the Fused This may have a connectuion to Shin religion. Is it possible that the Hallowed Stones date back to Odium being mankind's god?
  13. This is for people who like to sing and have good voices! Obviously, that applies to me *tosses hair* No, actually, it's true, or else I wouldn't have created this topic! What do you like to sing? What is your range? Do you enjoy it or is it annoying? Have at it!
  14. So while this could be nothing, I was looking through some discussions about stormlight 4 and I started to connect some dots. While it is not confirmed, a lot of the fandom- and myself- believe Hesina, Kaladin's mother, to be originally from Kharbranth. If this is true, we known from the end of Oathbringer that all those who were born in Kharbranth and their spouses will be spared from Odium. We also know that Odium is bound by his word and so he must follow this deal he struck with Taravangian. While I've seen quite a few people saying this deal will end up being bad for Taravangian and that Odium ultimately got the better deal, I think this deal is what will bring about Odium's downfall, not Taravangian's. Now I should say this having any sort of possibility weighs heavily on Hesina being born in Kharbranth, but under the assumption that she is then this means that Lirin is spared by association. And yet, even with this deal potentially protecting him, much of the fanbase believes Lirin will die in Stormlight 4. This is where I think Odium trips himself up. If Lirin were to die as a result of Odium- so be singers, listeners, or corrupted spren- the deal between Odium and Taravangian will immediately become void. And while we don't necessarily know what happens when a shard's word is broken, it is my personal headcanon that a big part of the process for Honor being shattered was that he in some way broke his word. While obviously this has a lot holes in it, I just wanted to point it out as I've been seeing a lot of people talking about the Kharbranth deal and whether or not Lirin will die in the next book.
  15. So in my reread of Oathbringer, I noticed that when, in the flashbacks, Dalinar feels the Thrill, it says on a few occasions that he almost hears a beat or rhythm. I wonder if this has anything to do with the Singers' rhythms? My theory is that he's hearing one of the Rhythms of power faintly, because the Unmade are spren of Odium and Odium's spren are what grant the new Rhythms. Being under the influence of such a powerful, giant spren, especially for someone like Dalinar who's spirit web has to be a little broken to be a nascent Radiant, creates a mindset or almost a Connection to the Singers in a way not yet explored.
  16. I’m wondering what’s going to happen with Vyre. It seems like there is destined to be a confrontation between he and Kaladin, probably many. Are they turning him into a new supervillain like Amaram? The way Khen and the other parshmen “wanted to be near him” reminded me of the bridgemen’s devotion to Kaladin. Is he taking over from Jezrien in some way, being that he killed him (or trapped him...?) and he has Jez’s Honorblade. Anyway I’m rambling a bit. What do you think Vyre’s role or purpose will be?
  17. While relistening to Oathbringer again, I was on the part from Rock’s POV, and I was remembering that I heard on shardcast that Brandon confirmed that there are part human singers. I couldn’t find it in arcanum, but I thought they said that these include the Herdazians and the horn eaters. They listed the herdazian fingernails as evidence of their singer heritage. Anyway, so in Rock’s POV there’s a part where he is cooking and thinking of when he would cook with his mom and she would hum. He felt like he could almost hear her humming sometimes. I think he’s faintly hearing the rhythms. Any other signs you guys have caught?
  18. Parshendi. Listeners. Singers. All the same? When'd the names "listeners" and "singers" divide? So they lived on Roshar with Cultivation and Honor. Then humans brought Odium with them to Roshar after destroying their last home with Surgebinding. Parshendi gave them Shinovar. Then...what? Used Surges forbidden to the Parshendi? When did the humans start fighting the Parshendi? I seem to remember something about the humans gradually taking over the homes of the Parshendi. And what's the deal with the spren abandoning the listeners for humanity? I don't remember any of the spren saying anything like that. From what I remember of Syl and Pattern, it seems like they fear the Parshendi and seek to eradicate them for fear of being forced into bonding with them.
  19. I've been thinking for a long time about possible origins of the Listener's tradition of not touching their dead. Maybe it is only in there because it is a convenient plot point in Way of Kings, but Brandon likes depth to his cultures so I think this was thought out a little more than that. I suspect it is related to the Fused essentially being body snatchers. Maybe they refuse to touch their dead out of respect to their gods. Based on a history of the Fused inhabiting Singer bodies then when those bodies were killed they didn't touch them out of reverence or fear of their gods. The tradition continued after the desolations had ended and remains part of even the parshmen's cultural memories. Has anyone else been thinking about this? Anyone have some good theories and/or juicy WoBs?
  20. This is... not exactly a deep question, but, Are Parshendi teeth covered in white enamel, the same as humans? Or does the color match their red bones? Yeah, it's silly.
  21. This idea started for me during the sample chapters, it's evolved some to include more so I wished to expand what I started here. Much of what's in the old thread will be repeat here, but I think I've fleshed it out more for (hopefully) a different and more in depth discussion. The Forms I believe that the singers are born without a spren bond. This would mean that they are born without a "form" but have a base physiology that is unaltered by a Spren. This is not Dullform, but something distinct. I base this on the following words from Eshonai and Venli's mother in Words of Radiance This implies a coming of age ceremony in which a listener went into the storms to bond a spren for the first time. So I believe that this lack of form, or "Birthform" is the natural unbonded state of a singer. I think that this is the form that we see in the Singers that were healed by the Everstorm. I find it highly suspicious that we are never once shown a child of the listeners. The first time we see a child of the singer race is Sah's daughter, in the same form as all of the other restored Parsh. These seems to be an obfuscation to me. Next we have Dullform. It appears through the text that when a singer enters the storm to adopt a form, each Form is tied to a specific spren. Hence the search for creation Spren, and hopefully, Artform. If this is the case, why is Dullform an expected result of experimenting with new spren? I believe that Dullform is not a true "form" but a protective mechanism. When the Spren enters into the gemheart, I think that it merges with the spiritweb in a specific location, integrating into the Spiritual Aspect to alter the Physical form and thought process of the Singer, but only if the Spren is a viable option for a form. In the event that the Spren is not viable I think dullform occurs. The portion of the spiritweb that normally integrates with the Spren instead retracts, resulting in a dormant portion of their Spiritual aspect. This dulls the rhythms, reduces Cognitive function, and pushes them into a "form" very similar to another we've seen. Slaveform, or the Parshmen, also have reduced Cognitive function, and are completely incapable of bonding with spren or detecting the rhythms. I believe that this is because the same portion of the Spiritual Aspect that integrates with the Spren in a proper form, or retracts in Dullform, is fully excised. The physical similarities between Slaveform and Dullform are not coincidence. They appear similar because they are both nearly the same thing. Dullform is just more complete Spiritually. The Last Legion The group of Singers that became the listeners were a part of the "Last Legion." a group that now seems to have been composed of Regals, connected to Ba-Ado-Mishram to gain Voidlight in the false desolation, and Mateforms out of necessity. And with the knowledge of those two Non-Voidforms, a group from the Last Legion adopted Dullform to escape their gods, inadvertently saving themselves from the excision forced on the rest of their race. I believe this was possible precisely because of the protective mechanism of Dullform. The spiritweb retracts, and the connection that BAM had forged with them all through the use of the Voidforms was also withdrawn. Whatever Melishi attempted that imprisoned BAM and simultaneously crippled every other living singer, was unable to reach out and excise the Spiritual Aspects of those in Dullform. To this use of the Surges, just as to a non-viable spren, that section of the spiritweb was already gone. The Rhythms In the Slaveform singers, the rhythms are completely absent. I belive that this is because the portion that was excised and integrates with spren is the exact same piece of the spiritweb that allows for the rhythms to be detected. In Slaveform, it is absent. In Dullform they are diminished. In a true form, they are filtered through the Spren, in the variety that we have always seen listeners sense them. In a Voidform, they are altered by the investiture that has corrupted the Spren. I think this is why all of the "new" rhythms are tinged with anger and disgust. They are the old rhythms, twisted into something hateful. To attune one of the rhythms that are familiar to the original forms is difficult for someone in a Voidform, and the majority of the time that we see Venli do it is in the presence of Timbre, making me think that her proto-bond may have helped to diminish the influence of the Voidspren in her gemheart. That's it for now. Tell me your thoughts. Tear it apart. Discuss.
  22. I'm curious which side people would choose, Mankind or the Singers?
  23. So the singers are banging away trying to uncover something beneath the palace at Kholinar.: “Curious, human?” Moash jumped, startled to find a figure hovering down through the broken ceiling, swathed in black. Lady Leshwi still visited Moash, the man who had killed her. She was important among the singers, but not in a highprince sort of way. More like a field captain. “I guess I am curious, Ancient Singer,” Moash said. “Is there a reason you’re ripping apart this section of the palace? More than just to clear away the rubble?” “Yes. But you do not yet need to know why.” Excerpt From Oathbringer Brandon Sanderson https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/oathbringer/id1198279804?mt=11 This material may be protected by copyright. I didn’t Give it much thought at first . Then I started wondering what could they possibly want . Seems some speculation is in order. So , we have not seen any Singer cities! We know they were the Original inhabitants. Of Roshar . What if there is an ancient Singer city beneath Kholinar? What goodies would u expect to find? Fabrials ? Gems containing spren trapped for changes in highstorm? Ancient weapons cache? Or perhaps a City built like Urithiru but made for Singers! I’d like to hear your thoughts ?
  24. I would like to discuss the Singers . Compare notes and see if we are overlooking anything. To begin with i’d Like to go over the difference between Singers and listeners . The Singers are the original race that became the Parsh when a Bondsmith imprisoned one of the Unmade which trapped them into Slaveform . The listeners were the last company of Singers that turned. Away from the “Old gods” and eventually became the parshendi. I thought that all the listeners were wiped out in the creation of the Everstorm except for Rlain, Venli and demmed. However on my last re-read Venli spoke of 2000 listeners that survived the Everstorm . It is worth noting that the Listeners are considered traitors by the Fused for turning away from them and actively preventing their return by assasinating Gavilar. The Singers and Listeners both have 4 sexes . Malen and Femalen, which are appear like male and female but are asexual and have no reproductive parts. As far as I can tell all forms of power and most forms that the pashendi know are Femaen and malen. The only forms that are male and female that are in use are mateform , dullform , and slaveform. This is how the parsh were able to reproduce. The. Current hierarchy of the singers is as follows . The Singers are on the bottom . They have no forms of power.; Limited to mateform workform, nimbleform, slaveform, dullform , The next in power are the Regals which are Singers and Listeners who have taken a lesser voidspren into their gemhearts, they still possess their own minds . So far we have only seen Regals in Stormform and Envoyform. Lastly we have the Fused , who are Cognitive Shadows that all occupy Forms of Power. And exist by killing the spirit web of a Singer. They see the Singers as cattle and are the true Leaders of the Race. A last note is the Singers who have been awakened by the everstorm. To fill the gaps in there spriteeb they have all been given the consciousness of whatever country they served as parsh. Parsh from Alethi , act Alethi , parsh from Thaylan act Thaylan . now hear are the things we must figure out. Can singers use stormlight ? Can they become squires , can they bond spren. I strongly believe that singers cannot ! That is why Rlain says he has to adopt a form to be able to embrace stormlight . I think only Regals can use stormlight or bond a spren. i have discussed this with Sages before and I strongly feel they are totally misreading what Rlain is saying . Buf here is the more interesting question ? We have seen Venli bond a spren and thus be on her way to becoming a KR ( specifically a Willshaper. Can the Fused bond Higher Voidspren like Ulim? If so can they eventually learn to create living shardblades ? Can they learn to developer shardplate . Syl said the spren saw what honor did with the honorblade and they copied it. Can Ulim and the higher Voidspren learn to copy what Syl and wyndle do? This has never happened before but a lot of things are happening that has never happened before? And our last big question is what would happen if Dalinar and Venli and Kaladin and Rlain convince the Singers to abandon the Fused . Will this deny them bodies to posses or can the Fused force themselves into any Singer unfortunate enough to be caught in the Everstorm? I think the Singer has to open his body up to receive the Fused. What do the sages say? Are there any other forms that are male and female? Scholar form perhaps.?