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Found 45 results

  1. Theory: After Ambition was wounded in the Threnodite System by Odium and Mercy, she fled to another point in space. This point either was, or became, the Rosharan system. Here, Ambition was killed. Her death created the Barrier Storm in the Cognitive Realm around the planet Braize. This storm was later Invested by Odium to create the proto-Everstorm that was pulled through into the Physical on Roshar at the Battle of Narak. Ambition's death also created a wound in the Spiritual Realm in the Rosharan System similar to that which exists on Threnody. This is the reason there are spren on Roshar. Datapoints: I group this into two categories, Spren and Storms. SPREN: From Shadows for Silence in the Forest of Hell, we know that the wounding of Ambition in the Threnodite System created Shades: cognitive beings which manifest in the Physical Realm. We do not see similar manifestations in the Mistborn novels or the White Sand graphic novels. We know there are no Splintered Shards in the Scadrian or Taldain systems at the time these stories are set. We see similar manifestations in Elantris and Emperor's Soul (Seons and Skaze). We know there are Splintered Shards in the Selish system at this time. We see similar manifestations in The Stormlight Archive (spren on Roshar) (and voidspren on Braize). STORMS: From Khriss's statements in Arcanum Unbounded, we know that the Dor around Sel is a whorl of free Investiture created when Odium Splintered Dominion and Devotion there. From statements from Nazh and Hoid, we know that travel to/from Sel through the Cognitive Realm is very difficult and dangerous due to the presence there of the Dor. From statements by Nazh, we know that that travel to/from Braize through the Cognitive Realm was difficult due to the presence of this Barrier Storm. A possible chronology: 1) The Shattering of Adonalsium. 2) Odium and Mercy clash with Ambition in the Threnodite System. Ambition is wounded. 3) Odium (and possibly others) clash with Ambition in the Rosharan system. Ambition is killed, creating the Barrier Storm, and spren. 4) Odium goes to the Selish system. He clashes with Dominion and Devotion. They are both killed, creating the Dor. 5) Odium returns to the Rosharan system, and begins whispering in the ears of the Ashynites. 6) The Ashynites devastate their planet using Dawnshards. They are taken in as refugees by Honor and Cultivation on Roshar. Their God, Odium, comes with them. 7) Honor, Cultivation, and Odium make a deal that they think will allow them to live in harmony on Roshar. This is the Oathpact. 8) Odium intentionally goes against the Oathpact, triggering its punishment prohibitions. He is exiled to Braize, on the far side of the Barrier Storm. The cycle of Desolations begins. 9) Honor is Splintered. 10) Honor's Cognitive Shadow is bound to the spren of the Highstorm. 11) Several millennia pass. 12) Odium invests a not-insignificant amount of Investiture into the Barrier Storm, creating the proto-Everstorm in the Cognitive Realm. This process takes several centuries. 13) Finally, the Everstorm is pulled through into the Physical Realm on Roshar, creating a direct passage between Braize and Roshar. Questions: A] Why is this wrong? B] Were other Shards involved in the death of Ambition? Did Mercy join Odium for the final clash? Did Ambition? Did Endowment (who we know is relatively new to the Nalthian system)? Indeed... were Honor and/or Cultivation in on the kill? C] Did the death of Aona and Skai occur before the initial conflict with Uli Da in the Threnodite system; after this initial conflict but before the final conflict in the Rosharan system; or after the Rosharan conflict? D] When on this timeline did Honor and/or Cultivation arrive on Roshar? E] When was Odium's first contact with the humans on Ashyn?
  2. How will the Cosmere story end? Will there still be shards? Here is a list of possibilities for discussion. Adonalsium is re-formed with a new vessel. Adonalsium is re-formed without a vessel. The shards continue. The shards continue, but without vessels. The shards are splintered. All investiture, including shards, is destroyed, possibly by Nightblood. Any other possibilities? What do you think will happen?
  3. Which Party involved in the shattering was Hoid in, before he back out? Which ideology did he follow, do you think? The ones that did it for power, or who thought that Adonalsium presented a threat? And why did he back out? Was it because he wanted to retain his sense of self?
  4. There's been a few "sorting the shards into quadrants" "sorting the shards into quadrants and trying to find matching Dawnshards" and similar posts recently, and while I absolutely love reading those, this post is here for less linear thoughts about Adonalsium and the missing shards, but missing shards nonetheless. Let's stop with the preambling and get to what I want to get to: ODIUM and what it means for ADONALSIUM. Let's start by looking at one of the (imho) coolest quote of all the cosmere: Emphasis mine. Source: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Words_of_Radiance/Epigraphs#Chapter_71. Refresher: this is from one of the letters in reply to Hoid, so probably from either a shard or another old, cosmere-aware figure like Frost. So, for the sake of argument, let's assume what they write can be treated as fact. This quote has stuck with me, among others because it makes Odium such an interesting foe and such a cool idea: The hatred of a God, without all the rest of God. I want to talk about this quote some more. Let's reiterate three things: 1. Adonalisum was shattered into 16 pieces. As far as we know, there's no Debris or anything like that left. They're 16 pieces of a whole. Those could have been split up differently, but weren't. It's not a little god with 1/16th of all of Adonalsiums properties, but with ALL of 1 of 16 properties (or 2, in Harmonys case). 2. Rayse Odium calls himself Passion and sais that that's what they are. Passion. Emotion. He even tells Dalinar that he's the only one of the gods that understands human emotion, that knows it. 3. Despite this, everyone else more or less agrees that Odium is first and foremost Hatred. The way he is described in text and in universe is as seething, hating, hot and burning and hateful. Now, what am I trying to say: What does this mean for Adonalsium? Well, one of multiple things. That depends on what the last two shards are. We know almost nothing about Adonalsium, yet, sadly. But here's my thoughts, which I hope to make understandable: I really hope atleast one of the last two shards is an emotion. Something like "Love" is a common guess, but even just something like "Care" or "Charity" (which the ancient greeks would argue was one of multiple forms of love anyway). Seriously. Because if there isn't another Emotion-Shard, then Rayse/Passion is right. In that it isn't just Hate, but all emotions/passions. Or rather, all the emotions/passions Adonalsium was capable of. It's why I refer to it as Passion in the title of this post. Let's look at the quote about it again: Virtues. Not "other emotions." Now, we can argue that Virtues are an emotional thing, but I think the semantics are clear. The letter doesn't say "without the other emotions." or, the very clear thing many religions irl share: "His Love" There's a few conclusion to be drawn from this, and I will list those in a second, but I want to first look at the shards again to underline this. Virtues: Honor, Autonomy, Ambition, Mercy, Valor, (Wisdom, Prudence) Divine Properties: Endowment, Dominion, Devotion, maybe Cultivation? Forces of Creation/Nature: Preservation, Ruin, maybe Cultivation? Uh, no idea: Whimsy, Invention. To be clear: This isn't supposed to be a sorting or anything like that. I don't think this is how the shards are grouped or even if they are grouped. The point of this list is to drive home the point that none of these are emotions. There sure are some Virtues, especially Honor and Mercy and Wisdom stand out as ones that sound like they would give Odium much needed context. But, again, none of these are emotions. (Is bravery an emotion? I wouldn't say so. Semantics, maybe) This leads me to a few possible conclusions: 1: One of the two so far unknown shards is also about emotions. Especially "Love" or one of its derivatives would of course fit a God the way we on earth imagine it well, and would make a good counter to Odium. I know there aren't clear pairs, but another shard of emotion would mean Adonalsium had atleast two different distinct emotions or emotional states. Because otherwise... 2a: (Odium is the only Emotion Shard and Rayse is lying about Odium = Passion) Adonalsium was a deeply hateful being. If it was shattered into 16 Aspects of its being, and only one of them is emotion, and that is pure Odium, Adonalsium must have been hateful in the same fulfilling, allencompassing way that Odium is. If Odium is "Just Adonalsiums Hatred without The Rest" and none of "The Rest" are emotions, then Adonalsium felt basically the same way that Odium does. Hate with a hint of Anger for a rare change. Even the better version of this isn't much better: 2b: (Odium is the only Emotion Shard and Rayse is right about Odium = Passion) Adonalsium was a deeply hateful being anyway. If Odium is the only emotion shard, and is not "God's own Divine Hatred" but rather "God's own Divine complex emotions", then well, Adonalsiums complex emotions must still have been hugely dominated by Hate. 3: Odium is all emotion that Adonalsium could feel and just got the way it is after the Shattering. Maybe "God's Divine Passions/Emotions" is up to interpretation the way Ruin could be slow decay or active Catastrophes, and it got interpreted into Odium. Then again, it sounds like Odium went on his killing spree pretty quickly after the Shattering, so it's not like he started out loving and jolly and became bitter and hateful with lots of time. (4: Adonalisum wasn't a being in the same way that we humans are, its/their emotional state is not really understandable with human understanding of emotion. We don't even know if Adonalsium had a person/vessel/personality/anything, for all we know it could have been a machine or mechanism or a force of nature more than an entity. Does a poisonous plant feel hate when it kills you for eating it? Does a storm, or a robot that was tasked to protect something when it hurts those that try to interfere with its task? Maybe Adonalsium didn't feel much, so much of what it was was Creation, and to argue about Adonalsiums Emotional landscape is futile? The only things we can assume to know are that It experienced bravery, it showed mercy, it cultivated, preserved, and destroyed things, it dominated and was devoted, it invented, it was whimsical, it wanted to survive, it was ambitious, it was autonomous, it endowed things, and: It felt Hate/it hated.) I personally hope for the former for the sake of our heroes and everyone in the cosmere, but let's continue the thoughts based on 2a and 2b for now, because there's some thought that might make these ones more likely. Whether or not Rayse was right is kind of irrelevant. Whether or not Adonalsium felt only Odium or Passion, if that 16th of Adonalsium that was/is Passion was the way back then it is now, well, Adonalsiums emotional landscape was a bad one. Even with the "context", as in "the virtues that gave it context", it doesn't paint the nices picture of the Cosmere's old God. If it's Wisdom keeping Adonalsiums Hate in check then that sounds like they came to the conclusions it's not smart to destroy everything. If it's Honor, then Adonalsiums is sparing lives because of some Oaths or feeling of duty. Cool, I guess. Not kindness, though. Mercy is the biggest candidate for a counterweight, but that to me has bully-vibes still. "I want to kill you tbh but I'm sparing you because I'm so mercyfull" isn't exactly kind either, is it? If that's what Adonalsium was right, then no wonder that a group of people came to conclusion it had to be destroyed. (And if Rayse was an evil leaning person before the Shattering, then no wonder he wanted that Shard in particular. Sounds like one of the few they'd be sure to exist afterwards.) Long, long post. If you read this far, thanks for sticking with it. I'm intrigued if other people thing my argument is conclusive at all, an what your thoughts about this are. Will we get another Emotion Shard? Will we not, and Adonalsium was very hateful? Is it futile to imagine Adonalsiums Emotions the way neurotypical Human Emotions work? Or another possible answer?
  5. Let's talk about The Shattering of Adonalsium. (bit of a long post, I know, but trust me). Now, we can all agree that the Shattering is A Big Deal™ by Cosmere standards, and we've all been dying to get any tidbits as to the how's and why's of such a monumental event. Storms, we barely know the where's and who's! Most we can say is it happened A Long Time ago, in Yolen, and maybe Uncle Andy went along with it? That is why whenever Hoid or Khriss or whoever makes a reference to the Shattering, we pay VERY close attention! We are desperate to know what it looked like, why it happened, how it went about, what everyone in the Cosmere felt, and a million other things. We would love nothing more than a first-hand account of Adonalsium's death. But you know what Brandon gave us instead? Not a recollection of events by a scholar, not exposition by one of the Shards, not the how's or why's or the answer to any of those questions; no, instead of telling us how it looked or sounded or came about, Brandon showed us how the Shattering felt. From Dawnshard, ch. 16: Now I don't know about you folks but to me it seems that the first ever look we get at the Shattering, the first POV from the death of Adonalsium, is in the form of emotions. Those are the emotions that Adonalsium itself felt at the moment of its death. And how amazing is that?! For such a foundational event for the entirety of the Cosmere, we don't get something "normal" like 'Hoid remembered that fatal day, when everything ended' or some "regular" storytelling like that! Any other saga based on such an event would have just released a prequel featuring the Shattering. But instead, we get to experience firsthand what the Shattering felt like. We learn not what was said, nor the details of what transpired, but the feelings of God's death from millenia ago. And that, dear Sharders ,is the most original thing Brandon has ever written. Thanks you for coming to my TED talk.
  6. Given that the mural shows something be broken into 4 pieces with each piece being further divided into 4. I wonder if that is how the shattering occurred. Adonalsium was first broken into 4 pieces (mesoshards), and then those 4 pieces were further broken into 4 more pieces (shards). This would have the implication that each of the 16 shards can be associated with 2 dawnshards, the dawnshard that broke off the piece of adonalsium to form a mesoshard, and the dawnshard that broke off the piece of the mesoshard to form the shard.. This might be a useful avenue to explore the identity of the shards and the identity of the dawnshards. So what about Unity. There has been some theorizing about who Unity is. What if Unity was one of the 4 mesoshards that was then broken into the existing shards. It could be that the shattering took place in stages. That Unity was taken up, and then killed. There are even some rather obvious shards that might derived from the Unity mesoshard: Dominion, Devotion, and Honor. I'm not sure what the fourth shard would be. I do find it interesting that Odium has shattered these particular shards. For whatever reason Odium would take particular action against the Unity shards, it must be quite a shock to see Dalinar seemingly pulling it back together.
  7. I theorize... A Command is a directive for Investiture to do something. Intent determines how Investiture does that something. Adonalsium used the four Commands to create the cosmere from raw Investiture. The four Commands are different aspects of one Command: “Create!” “Change” is the process of creation. A second Command relates to the substance/structure Change acts on. A third defines the cosmere’s operating rules that limit Change’s scope. The fourth Command, which @asmodeus first suggested, grants life – sentience. Shard Intents represent different aspects of each Command. What Is a Command? Posters point out how Awakening Commands resemble what I’ll call Divine Commands in this paragraph. The power of an Awakening Command largely depends on how well the Awakener visualizes the Command. Adonalsium's omniscience – the “understanding of a deity” – makes his Divine Command so much more powerful and precise than any Awakening Command could be. Yet text suggests the “Change” Command is the Investiture equivalent of between 50 (aura recognition) and 200 (perfect pitch) Breaths. At most Change equates to 600 Breaths (perfect color recognition). Relationship Between Commands and Intents A Command can direct any Investiture. I believe that Investiture’s Intent determines how the Investiture executes the Command. Example: I think cosmere Change means changing a person or object's Spiritual aspect. To me that involves making, changing, or breaking a person or object’s Connections, or destroying the person/object altogether. I believe Honor, Cultivation, Odium, and Ruin respectively perform those functions. Commanding Honor to Change an object will bind the object to something else. Commanding Cultivation to Change an object will transform the object into something else. Commanding Odium to Change an object will break that object’s Connections to something else (IMO). And Commanding Ruin to Change an object will destroy the object. FWIW, coincidentally (and conveniently) Change and these Shards are now all on Roshar in force, Ruin via Nightblood. The Four Commands “Change” seems sufficient to create by itself if given something to act on. I think Change is the means of creation. Everything new derives from something else, just as Adonalsium changed raw Investiture into the cosmere. Commands like “Join” or “Persist/Endure” or “Destroy” to me are just forms of Change or resistance to it. Change acts on some substance or “Structure.” I suggest a second Command might relate to what Adonalsium Changed raw Investiture into – the cosmere’s Investiture/matter/energy matrix made manifest in the Physical Realm. This includes the three Realmic aspects of everything from subatomic particles to planets, stars, and space itself. There’s no necessary reason the cosmere should look like our universe. I speculate it does because Adonalsium “Structures” the cosmere that way. A third Command might relate to the cosmere’s operating “Rules.” Rules limit Change’s scope. Examples include Realmic interactions, cosmere thermodynamics, and other cosmere physics principles. Perception’s cosmere role may also fall under the Rules rubric. I agree with Asmodeus the fourth Command may relate to the grant of “Life/Sentience.” Brandon says one of the Dawnshards is different from the rest. That means the person who holds the Command (the Dawnshard) is different from the other persons who hold Commands. I believe the Life/Sentience Dawnshard is the one who’s different. IMO, granting life is the most godlike of all the Commands. (I think of Michelangelo’s depiction of the divine hand extending towards Adam.) The Life/Sentience Command may require an Ascended being to hold it. Do Intents Derive from Commands? The Akinah mural hints Shard Intents may derive from the four Commands. I speculate that’s true. Known Shard Intents IMO each seem to represent a different aspect of a Command. I show above that Honor, Cultivation, Odium, and Ruin IMO are different aspects of Change – different ways to make Change. I think Preservation is an aspect of Structure. Stasis seems like an important element of Realmic Structure. Dominion to me expresses Rules. Sel’s magic users access magic through geographic-based forms. I attribute that to Dominion. It’s as if that Shard says, “Gain dominion over your homeland before you can use its magic.” Brandon likens AonDor’s topography-derived forms to a programming language. The greater the Elantrian’s knowledge of local topography, the more precise their use of AonDor. Autonomy and Endowment both grant Life/Sentience, to Avatars and Awakened objects. That leaves Devotion and Ambition among known Shards. Their magic is unclear to me. I believe Devotion involves the free use of Investiture (unconditional Love?) that Dominion’s Rules control the flow of. Maybe Devotion is an aspect of Structure? Ambition’s magic is part of why Threnody’s so spooky, which is all I know about that Shard. The Shattering Nikli says the future Vessels used the Commands to Shatter Adonalsium. Adonalsium pre-Shattering WAS the cosmere, it’s mind, body, and spirit. The cosmere’s body and spirit (in Changed form) persist post-Shattering. Adonalsium himself – the cosmere’s mind – is dead. I speculate the future Vessels Commanded Change to undo Adonalsium’s Sentience, thus killing him but leaving the cosmere intact. Change and the other Commands then divided Adonalsium into the Shard Intents. Maybe...?
  8. So Ruin&Preservation was just some weird opposites attract thing where one can't just be alone without the other interfering so that makes sense. Honor&Cultivation settled together because they're romantically involved so that one is quite obvious. However how did Aona and Skai end up together settling on the same planet when the shards they held don't seem to gel well by concept ? Do you guys think it is personal like they personally know each other enough that they trust each other to settle together ? Are they previously romantically involved as well ( tho Sanderson did say they were just business partners of sort but I think I read some wob there was something more) ? Or after picking up the shards did with their warped personality both made a conscious agreed decision together as they foresaw they would work out well for their personal shard intents ? It feels like their settling on the same planet together like how two friends/strangers who have different personalities just decide to become roommates or something. Their case is a curious as if I think about it Dominion and Devotion sounds almost as disastrous as R&P. Any relevant wobs ? Speculations ? Thoughts
  9. Today I would like to make a guess about a greater Cosmere idea that Brandon is foreshadowing to us using a pivotal moment from the Stormlight Archive. The evidence I have is mainly thematic. Let's start with a quote from Khriss: Khriss is talking to Kelsier, alluding to the nature of the Shards of Adonalsium as mere men and women. People who seized power and became something more. Brandon talks broadly about the bigger themes that he is writing into the Cosmere in this article, among them being that Warbreaker is meant to foreshadow something greater: This leads me to a thought; what if the Recreance on Roshar is foreshadowing a future event when people in the Cosmere become aware of the true nature of the Shards? Now, to be clear, I am not referring to the actual action of the Knights Radiant breaking their oaths, but rather to them gaining the knowledge that would eventually break them. The Recreance was an event that doubtless had multiple causes. The Radiants learning the true nature of humans on Roshar (that Surgebinders had destroyed Ashyn, were the original Voidbringers and, according to Honor, were bound to destroy Roshar as well) was only part of what lead to the downfall of the Order as a whole. However, I believe this event is a hint towards how many people will act once it is widely known in the Cosmere that 16 people killed God and usurped his power. I can only imagine the fallout from that revelation would be destructive & immense. I think that Brandon hints at this eventuality with groups, cultures, and persons who do seem to have some sort of knowledge of Adonalsium. In certain societies, the there is a sort of cultural memory pertaining to a God that existed before the Shards. This is heavily debated, of course, but I contend that the Iriali's belief in the One, and the various mentions of The God Beyond are examples of this. Now, it's not as if this knowledge is completely unknown at our current point in the timeline. Of course all of the original Vessels know of their own origins, and we can assume that new Vessels such as Harmony have a pretty good handle of their Shards history as well. There are certain informed scholars, such as Khriss, who seem to know quite a lot. And of course there are outliers like Hoid or Frost, who have just been alive forever. My point is simply that by and large, the vast majority of people in the Cosmere are unaware of the various Shards and the origin of their power. Alright, let me wrap up the argument I've laid out here with a summary: Once we hit Space Age Cosmere (or possibly sometime earlier, depending on technological advancements) the majority of cultures will be able to rapidly communicate and share information. During this time, it will become known that the Shards of Adonalsium are just that - mortal beings who murdered God and stole his power. What happens after that is anyone's guess, but I imagine it will be chaotic. Please let me know what you think, and thank you for reading. Special thanks to Pevin-son-Kalak on Discord & @asmodeus for their help with a little bit of research I couldn't seem to find.
  10. So this is completely a joke, but we know that Alcatraz Smedry has the power to break things. He breaks a lot of everything. We also know that Adonalsium was broken into sixteen pieces. Also, in the Reckonners, we see technology that can recreate people's powers. So, by the laws of absurd logic, I believe that someone stole Alcatraz's power and made it into a weapon, gave the weapon to someone else, who then used it to shatter Adonalsium. Alcatraz then figured out what happened, and he went on a quest to fix it. He is who we know as Hoid.
  11. This was moved from an Intro Post Oh man, this is both really brutally difficult and deceptively simple. My heart of hearts cries out “No! I will save ALL of them!” But then my mathematician brain takes over and does the following: **DEFINITELY SPOILERY** Suppose all the Shardworlds ARE getting destroyed, then we can assume their pasts are in tact and everything that has been written by Brandon is still as is. I would easily let Sel crash and burn, we know that Elantrians can make it out. Nalthis, same thing. The only two that I would feel compelled to REALLY save are Scadrial and Roshar. Alas, it would have to be Scadrial... and here’s why: Ok so if the Shardworlds are getting destroyed, that includes Braize where as of OB Odium currently resides, so let it burn to the ground. (On the other hand, Odiums existence has been an engine of change for the Cosmere... but that’s another discussion!) Honor has already been splintered and that leaves only Cultivation, really. The world would be destroyed AFTER RoW since it has already been written, so there’s still more to read there and I assume there will be enough radiants to get a number of humans/parshendi/etc into Shadesmar and have them all start walking toward the Expanse of Vapors. At that point, most beings would reside either in Shadesmar itself or on Scadrial. For the moment... We know that Allomancy will be a jumping off point for space travel, so if Scadrial is saved there are two prime benefits: 1) Space travel means all those other world inhabitants could eventually move off-world if desired and the Cosmere could be repopulated 2) Harmony. (I always saw Saru from Discovery when I read Sazeds parts... I cant be the only one, right? I think it was just how cautious he was and everything...) Anyway, Harmony! Once Harmony gets a handle on holding Pres/Ruin he will be able to crush Odium. It’s confirmed that he holds more power (he just cant really use it all that well yet). So, if Scadrial is the last surviving Shardworld then Harmony is the last surviving shard and we will get to see an ABSOLUTELY EPIC BATTLE between Odium and Harmony which I would be hundreds of dollars to see (literally cause I plan on buying every single book until then...) So, long story short: save Scadrial and let the rest burn. What would you save and why???
  12. This is probably the most telling WoB on Adonalsium I've seen Pod (paraphrased) You said at the Starsight release that [Adonalsium] was intentionally preventing the spren from accessing Surges through fabrials and such pre-Shattering. Was this a passive or active effect? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) It was kind of both - the way [Adonalsium] worked was just that the way he saw the world was the way the world worked. He didn't want the spren to be able to do that, so they couldn't. Pod (paraphrased) So did [Adonalsium] want to die? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) *makes face along with various non committal hmings* Pod (paraphrased) That at least gives credibility to the theory. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yeah, it gives credibility to the theory. Footnote: *I don't know how to describe the face - it definitely wasn't confirmation but it looked incriminating to me American Fork High School Signing (Dec. 12, 2019) so with Adonalsium, the way he saw things was the way things were. the spren couldn't access the surges because that's what adonalsium saw, so that's the way it worked. so is this saying that whatever adonalsium wished to see, happened.? Like if there was nothing and he wanted to see a world, would it magically appears? its like the chicken and egg theory. did adonalsium want to see something, so he did? or did he see something that was already there and that's the way things were? like the spren couldn't access the surges because he saw them that way? Or they already couldn't access the surges and he saw that so that became "law"
  13. Whilst pondering who Hoid could be, and what his place in the Cosmere might be, other than being a wanderer and researcher, I came upon an interesting thought that I'm sure has been thought of before, but I wanted to see what everyone else thinks about it. Did Hoid Shatter Adonalsium? Hoid always has been a secretive fellow, popping up at seemingly random moments in the Cosmere, and somehow knowledgeable of facts that even the people of the same world do not know. He was even said to have been offered a Shard after the Shattering. But could he be the villain of the Cosmere, the one no one saw coming, yet was in opposition to and powerful enough to destroy Adonalsium. It sounds ridiculous at first glance, but then, you never can tell with Hoid. Here are my thoughts on the matter... 1. Hoid has been seen gaining one or more spren on Roshar, which could possibly mean he is trying to gain power. 2. He is involved with not just one or two worlds, as some Worldhoppers are, but is involved in pretty much EVERY one. Could he be keeping track of the Cosmere in order to know what he was dealing with if/when he rose back to power? 3. How could he know so much about all of the magic systems, sometimes even aware of things inhabitants of the involved world don't know, and he sometimes mentions the Shards as if he knows them like friends. Is there a reason for this? Anyhow, I just wanted to se what you guys thought, as it was an idea I'd long pondered but finally wanted to put some evidence together just to se what you guys thought. Crush my theory. PLEASE!!! I really don't want Hoid to be evil!!!
  14. How long does it take to shatter a shard the way odium does compared to the slow strangulation used by ruin against preservation ? Why is the shatter method perceived as being so quick if honor had time to create the stormfather and rant and rave about the knights radiant destroying the world with their surgebinding.
  15. In this post, I use “nature,” to describe Vessel-independent Shard behavior and “expression” to describe Vessel-influenced Shard behavior. @Jofwu first suggested this distinction and nomenclature. IMO, “intent” and “mandate” muddle this distinction, since their meaning varies with usage. Summary Brandon says each Shard combines personality with a “primal force.” Consensus agrees Vessel personality determines Shard expression: how the Vessels choose to direct their Shards’ Investiture. IMO, a Shard’s “primal force” defines its immutable nature. This primal force Connects the Vessel to its Shard. I believe magic system mechanics show us each Shard’s primal force Connection. Theory Spiritual Realm Investiture is the same for all Shards. Shards differ only in how they access this Investiture and how they grant it to mortals: “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do,” and “The means of getting powers…are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves.” Brandon tells us Connection is not Investiture: “Connection is, like, the equivalent of a quantum connection in our world, so it's more like a force than something comprised of something.” If Spiritual Realm Investiture is the same for all Shards, then Shards differ only in their Connection to their Vessel. I believe each Shard’s primal force IS this unique Connection. Magic users draw Investiture from the Spiritual Realm through their Shard’s primal force Connection. Magic systems IMO supply the best evidence of each Shard’s primal force Connection. Here are Brandon’s three examples from the WoB I quote in full below. Ruin – Primal Force Connection: Entropy. “Ruin is a charged term for” entropy. Ruin’s magic system gives Investiture to mortals through an act of entropy – spiking. Any Ruin Vessel IMO would deliver its Investiture via entropy. Personality: “Kind and generous” Ati chose decay to express entropy. He was the best Ruin possible. Another Vessel might have chosen cataclysm. Preservation - Primal Force Connection: Stasis. “Preservation is a charged term for stasis.” Any Preservation Vessel IMO would deliver Investiture to mortals through metal’s static molecular structure. Personality: Leras created the Terris Prophecies and imprisoned Ruin. Other Vessels might have acted differently. Honor - Primal Force Connection: Connects People. “Honor is the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by.” I think any Honor Vessel would deliver Investiture to mortals through a person-to-person Connection like the Nahel bond. Personality: Tanavast’s Honor chose oaths to create binding rules. Another Vessel (Dalinar’s Unity?) might favor other means to bind people. Tanavast’s personality gives “this sense that [‘honor’] is noble,” though “there's also something not honorable about Honor if taken from the other [primal force] direction.” I speculate about other Shards’ primal forces in other posts, but these are the only three Shard natures Brandon confirms. I believe, for example, Odium gives his Investiture through broken “people” Connections. When mortals eschew emotional pain (“I’m not to blame”), they isolate themselves from others. The resulting void lets hate in. Mechanically, Odium’s Investiture flows through the cracks in the soul left by the broken Connections. Breaking people Connections seems to be Odium’s nature, its primal force. A different Vessel than Rayse, who chose this repulsive force for his Shard, might break people Connections in a way that doesn’t generate violent passion. Shards eventually compel Vessels to conform to their Shard’s nature. Vessels succumb IMO because they draw all their power through their primal force Connection. Entropy made Ati more destructive. Stasis made Leras unable to harm Elend. The compulsion to Connect with others made Tanavast rely on bare oaths devoid of meaning. Analysis Two WoBs give guidance on Shard natures and Vessel expressions. Theorists have picked over the first the past year. The second WoB asks if Connection or “intent” attracts a Shard to its Vessel. I think at minimum this WoB says Shards reflect both personality and primal force. From his examples, I believe Brandon refers to Vessel personalities plus primal force. Here’s the second WoB about Connection and “intent”: This WoB distinguishes between “general intent/mindset” and Connection. I read “general intent/mindset” to mean Vessel temperament. Brandon says temperament alignment is unnecessary, though it makes ascension “easier.” Instead, the Vessels needed to “create Connection” to assume their Shards: “there was a lot going on with” Connection creation at the Shattering. Brandon’s answer shows personality is not part of Shard nature. Otherwise, temperament alignment would be necessary. Based on the first WoB, I believe the Vessels created a separate primal force Connection to each Shard. Sixteen different means to draw Investiture enabled the Vessels to divide Adonalsium’s power into sixteen equal parts. The “Adonalsium Personality Trait” Theory of Shard Natures @Calderis proposes the alternative “Adonalsium Personality Trait” theory of Shard origin. Because Shards are both personality and primal force, I don’t think it matters which origin theory is correct. The two quoted WoBs are mushy enough to allow either interpretation. But I know Cal will mention his theory if I don’t, so I summarize and respond to it in this Spoiler. Conclusion I think each Vessel Connects to its Shard by a different primal force. I believe that primal force Connection defines their Shard’s nature. Shards deliver their Investiture to magic users by the same primal force Connection. That mechanic appears immutable. Everything else IMO is the Vessel’s expression of its Shard’s nature, until nature ultimately overcomes expression.
  16. From the album Ghostblood symbol art

    Using that Ghostblood sybmol, just messing around, came up with this abstract composition and gave it some psychedelic colors.
  17. A few years ago Brandon dropped this nugget: there was a plot to "destroy" Adonalsium and it failed. I wonder if this is the same group of people who eventually "killed" Adonalsium and split the power. Adonalsium is mostly if not entirely made of Investiture and as the third WoB below says it cannot be destroyed. The 16 (or a subset of them) wanted to destroy Adonalsium, but they realized it was not possible, so they "killed" the sapience of Adonalsium, splitting it into pieces and picked up those pieces so it could not recombine or gain sapience on it's own again. At first I was thinking it was the same attempt. Like they intended to destroy big A, but they couldn't and the Shattering was the result. But this contradicts what Khriss told Kelsier about the Vessel motives in MB:SH. She says some did it because they wanted the power. She wasn't there, but the letter from Frost to Hoid in WoR indicates Rayse wanted to become Odium. #investiture
  18. Do we have evidence that Adonalsium existed from the beginning? Is it possible that there was a cycle of shatterings and reunifications?
  19. so Hoid was offered a Shard, right? and Rayse seems like he was the kind of guy you wouldn't want to give that level of power to. so what if hoid was orignally offered the shard of Odium, accompanied by him making an oath never to harm (or something like that) to keep it in check, but when he turned it down, Rayse jumped at his opportunity to take Odium... thus Wits heavy involvement in SA, fighting Odium. Edit: fighting Odium because he is responsible for Odium
  20. Pre - Shattering there was a being or power source Adonalsium that controlled or encompassed all of the investiture in the Cosmere. Presumably this investiture was imbued throughout the existing stars, planets and beings that existed in the Cosmere which included almost all of the current systems and types of intelligent life forms that currently exist (Scadrial and its line of humans being notable exceptions.) Also presumably all of the original ways of using investiture (proto-lightweaving, proto-sensory enhancement, proto-future sight, etc.) were either inherently granted by or naturally derived from Adolnasium. At some point in the past, either 1) Adonalsium either was under some threat that would affect the way of life in the cosmere or at least on Yolen. 2) Adonalsium itself was becoming a threat or a perceived threat to the way of life in the cosmere/Yolen. 3) The leaders of the various groups on Yolen convinced others/themselves of point 1 or 2 above. I believe that at this point, the leaders split into several factions. Faction 1 - disagreed entirely with any plan to interfere with or 'kill' Adonalsium - I feel fairly confident adding Frost to this group. Faction 2 - Agreed with plan to separate and distribute Adonalsium power but thought that this would be sufficient to end the threat or could be used safely - Leras, Tanavast, Uli Da, Aona Faction 3 - Agreed with plan to separate and distribute Adonalsium power but thought that the power should be kept separate or should be further splintered - Rayse, Bavadin, Edgli Not sure about: Ati, Skai, Cultivation's vessel Huge Question mark - probably doesn't fit into any of these categories - Hoid. A lot of this comes from information and impressions of the various Letters as well as some semi-canon sources (The Traveler, DragonSteel sample chapters, Liar of Partinel sample) and my own impressions and thoughts while reading the books, exploring the Shard and listening to Shardcast podcasts. Let me know your thoughts.
  21. So, I was talking with a friend, and she was saying that she thinks Adonalsium has to have a Cognitive Shadow somewhere in the Cosmere. She was convinced by a WOB were Brandon RAFO'd the question of "Does Adonalsium have a Cognitive Shadow in the Cosmere." My first response was doubt. To me it just didn't seem like something that would happen. She asked me why, and I mentioned that Cognitive Shadows were imprints of people's investiture that were left behind, really as an excuse out of an explanation. Looking through the WOB's on this topic, that is just the common in-world theory, and that cognitive shadows are super complicated. Either way, when I told my friend that she said that something with as much investiture as Adonalsium must have left behind a Cognitive Shadow, saying "Where did all that investiture go then?" to which I responded "What do you think the Shards are?" and then I realized... The Shards. What if the Shards are in fact Cognitive Shadows left behind by Adonalsium, or at least the Intents are. According to the Coppermind, a Nahel bond between a Cognitive Shadow and a person is possible, and what if the Vessels are bonding in some strange, or maybe simple, who knows, way with the Cognitive Shadows of Adonalsium. Please let me know your thoughts.
  22. Okay, here's what I'm basing this theory on. First, from what I understand, we know that Hoid was present, at the Shattering of Adonalsium. Next, we know that Hoid was offered a Shard, and refused to take it. (please note that this is my personal understanding, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) Now, here's my evidence. This all comes from the chapter heading of Part 4 of WoR. These chapter headings are a letter from Frost to Hoid, in reply to Hoid's letter to Frost, through the chapter headings of one of the parts of TWoK. Here are my quotes: "Is not the destruction we have wrought enough? The worlds you now tread bear the touch and design of Adonalsium. Our interference so far has brought nothing but pain." (Chapter 66, "Stormblessings") This seems to me to be Frost expressing grief over causing the Shattering of Adonalsium. Because what else would happen if your God was killed, than chaos? "However, it seems to me that all things have been set up for a purpose, and if we--as infants-- stumble through the workshop, we risk exacerbating, not preventing, a problem." (Chapter 68, "Bridges") This, to me, seems to imply that they countered Adonalsium's diving design, in shattering him. "He bears the weight of God's own diving hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become. (Chapter 71, "Vigil") This I think, is the most telling of the quotes. "He is what we made him to be..." How else would they have made Rayse full of hatred, than Shattering Adonalsium, and giving him the Shard of Odium? You, however, have never been a force for equilibrium. You tow chaos behind you like a corpse dragged by one leg through the snow. Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention. (Chapter 74, "Striding the Storm") Let me refer back to the first quote, "Our interference has brought nothing but pain." Although this could be referring in general, to Hoid's interference in important events, but based on the context and the other quotes, I'm going to go with he sowed chaos by Shattering Adonalsium. More Implications: If Hoid directly shattered Adonalsium, with the help of Frost, and neither of them received a Shard (I'm assuming Frost isn't a Shard), then it was in order to prevent some terrible thing from happening, not to grow in power. (Although I'm sure that those who helped him had that as at least a secondary motive.) Conclusion: Hoid shattered Adonalsium, with the help of Frost.
  23. Okay, first off, this thread will make a lot more sense if you read my theory that it's based off. However, I will provide a basic explanation here. My theory is that Hoid was the mastermind behind the Shattering. We also know that he was offered a Shard, and refused it. Now, here's the question. If he decided to shatter Adonalsium but refused a Shard, there are only a few possibilities as to his motives. This would say that it wasn't for power unless he had a change of heart between the Shattering and the time he was offered a Shard. So, what was his motive? Could Adonalsium have seemed threatening to him in a way we don't understand? What do you guys think?
  24. Hey Sharders! Long time lurker, but first time poster! Hopefully im not regurgitating a theory posted elsewhere, and apologies if this theory expands a bit beyond the confines of roshar, it's about an entity on roshar but by necessity has to expand a bit further! Let me know if i should move this to cosmere theories! but i have some ideas about the origin of the Nightwatcher. It starts with our current understanding of the nature of spren capable of nahel bonds. From what I understand, these spren are small pieces of honor, and cultivation to varying degrees depending on the variety. And have been referred to as splinters of honor or cultivation. These splinters are bits of investiture left without will or a host long enough that it gains sentience. (There has been confirmation in a WoB that spren are splinters similar to the way seons are on sel) I've come accross a number of theories proposing that the nightwatcher is of cultivation, possibly a kind of cognitive shadow similar to the stormfather. This doesnt hold up in my opinion, there is a WoB that i dont know how to link which tells us that cultivations holder is still alive, and from what we know of the old magic, it doesnt seem to fit into the types of investiture made possible by honor and cultivation. (nor the possible iterations of voidbinding that we'll see more of soon) I propose that the nightwatcher is actually a splinter of adonalsium from pre-shattering. There were already other spren on Roshar before any of the shards came there. I think it's possible that this is a magic system that predates all other kinds on roshar, and was put into place before any shards were taken up. The concept of a boon and a curse doesnt feel at all like the symbiosis present in all of the magic from honor, cultivation, or even odium. Thoughts?