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Found 297 results

  1. Having just finished Aether of Night earlier this morning I'm finally ready for this. Disclaimer: Booknerd is not responsible for your being imprisoned, accidentally imprisoning yourself, or being splintered by the prisoner/ army of food mystics. (If the food Mystics thing happens it's Hoid's fault) It should be noted by the reader that few Shards have every been captured and of the ones we know of(with the possible exception of Adonalsium) all have been accomplished by other Shards, and probably would best be used as a delay tactic than a permanent solution. Now to begin trapping a shard one must make a prison from their own power or Powers in the case of a tag team. One should note that power inequalities become skewed by prisons of this magnitude. Preservation was able to capture Ruin who at the time was more powerful as well as uncanotically in Aether of Night Decay was able to capture two shards at the same time. Warning in creating this prison you give your prisoner a huge advantage over you as can be seen by both Honor and Preservation being killed and Honor splintered by the shards they captured. Part two being inside a prison. Shardaic prisons vary but most tend to be designed to either seperate one's mind from their power, or push back on any attempt to use ones power. No prison is infallible however and all will eventually allow the prisoner some level of control over the outside world e.g. Ruin, Odium, and everyone in Aether of Night. Please note that escaping is incredibly time consuming so make sure you have a lifetime subscription to your favorite streaming service and thousands of rolls of toilet paper.
  2. This WoB is quite revealing as to the nature of Shards So if Shards are just "supercharged" pieces of sapient magic, similar to Spren and whatnot, I bet they can be killed in the same or similar ways as a Spren or CS. Thoughts? Iceblade44 So White Sand [then Elantris] is earlier... Then how the heck old is Khriss then? Will we ever get an answer as to why every worldhopper is flippin' immortal? Brandon Sanderson There is some time-dilation going on. I'll explain it eventually; we're almost to the point where I can start talking about that. Suffice it to say that there's a mix of both actual slowing of the aging process and relative time going on, depending on the individual. Very few are actually immortal. Faera Implying that some are actually immortal? Brandon Sanderson Depends on which definition of immortal you mean. Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.) Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.) Reborn when killed. (The Heralds.) Doesn't age and can heal, but dependent upon magic to stay this way, and so have distinct weakness to be exploited. (The Lord Ruler, among others.) Hive beings who are constantly losing individual members, but maintaining a persistent personality spread across all of them, immortal in that as long as too much of the hive isn't wiped out, the personality can persist. (The Sleepless.) Bits of sapient magic, eternal and endless, though the personality can be "destroyed" in specific ways. (Seons. Spren. Nightblood. Cognitive Shadows, like a certain character from Scadrial.) Shards (Really just a supercharged version of the previous category.) And then, of course, there's Hoid. I'm not going to say which category, if any, he's in. Some of these blend together--the Heralds, for example, are technically a variety of Cognitive Shadow. I'm not saying each of these categories above are distinct, intended to be the end-all definitions. They're off the cuff groupings I made to explain a point: immortality is a theme of the cosmere works--which, at their core, are experiments on what happens when men are given the power of deity.
  3. I have a friend telling me that ultimately the cosmere is an overarching story of how one man (Hoid) goes on to become God by uniting all if the shards. He said it'll be similar to Harmony but on a larger scale. He also said that by collecting different types of investitures, this will ultimately allow him to re unite the shards into 1 vessel, himself. I've not been able to see or find anything to confirm or deny what he is telling me. Any help from you guys would be appreciated!
  4. In Elantris it is mentioned that all the religions focus on unity. Shu-Dereth achieves Unity by Obedience(Dominion). Shu-Korath is Unity by Love (Devotion). Shu-Keseg is Unity (Dominion and Devotion) Did anyone else follow this train of thought?
  5. Many posters have analyzed the WoB that says this. Here is the WoB again. I highlight the critical language. My interpretation follows. IMO, Adonalsium was “infinite” because his mind inhabited his soul and was co-extensive with it. (Adonalsium is an anagram for “a mind, a soul.”) Adonalsium was both “transcendent” – occupying the Spiritual Realm – and “immanent” – pervading the Physical Realm. Adonalsium’s spirit, mind, and body were one. Shards are slices of Adonalsium. The Vessels’ minds Connect to those slices – “The Connection is all there in the Spiritual Realm.” Vessel minds are not co-extensive with their slices the way Adonalsium was with the entire cosmere. Vessels don’t know the Physical Realm location of their Shard’s “assigned Investiture” and instead must search for it. IMO, that is the sense Vessels are “not infinite.”
  6. This is my first post, so if I got anything wrong, let me know. I’ve been thinking about Harmony, who may be the most powerful being in the Cosmere, since he is two shards. My main question is: could Harmony combine with the rest of the shards to reform Adonalsium? Here is my thinking on the topic so far. The first challenge would be reforming the splintered shards—does anyone know if that’s possible? The second challenge would be getting all the shards into one place at the same time, in their complete forms, and vessel-less. Could one of the current vessels, for example, Sazed, claim the other shards, or would it have to be someone new, flaming all the shards at the same time? The third challenge, and end of my line of reasoning: In his letter to Hoid, Sazed mentions that “the powers I hold are in such conflict that the most simple of actions can be difficult.” -Third Oathbringer Letter. If Harmony has so much trouble reconciling Ruin and Preservation, would any Adonalsium 2.0 be rendered powerless by all 16 shards residing in it? One final thought. Was the shattering of Adonalsium a permanent, Cosmere-altering event? Or was it more like Pangea; simply the last of several occasions when all the continents (shards) were one. Now the continents are separate, but in a few million years or so, scientists tell us they’ll collide to form another supercontinent, which in turn will eventually separate again. Maybe Adonalsium is different every time it recombines, as the shards combine in different ways, with different vessels.
  7. Are all the shards pairs? We know that Ruin and Preservation are an opposing pair. Are all 16 shards this way? For example, perhaps Autonomy and Dominion are opposites, as Dominion seeks to destroy what autonomy others have, and autonomy seeks to be free of any dominion over it. In the same fashion, Devotion may have been Odium’s opposing pair, which would make his attack on her make all the more sense. If the theory is true, it would help us guess the other shards, for example, maybe a Contentment shard as Ambition’s pair, or Opposition as Cultivation’s. It would be interesting to know what dishards could be made if more pairs melded, like Harmony.
  8. So where is Autonomy exactly? I was going through the White Sand comics and there were faces in the sky. Not very subtle, that. But I remember reading WoBs and theories where Autonomy is the sun on the Dayside of the Taldain system. About how strange the entire Taldain planetary/stellar system was, why Taldain's Perpendicularity might be blocked (because it's in the Sun), how the lichen of the white sands recharge after being used for Sand Mastery, the Skycolors of Darkside (Shifting Colors in the comics), etc. Autonomy being the Sun made perfect sense, but there are also theories on her being Invested in the atmosphere, and some of those theories still work with that. So is Autonomy hiding in the sun or in the atmosphere? Did Brandon change his mind? Also, what's up with, what looks like an Avatar of her, appearing before Elorin? What's this about Scythe (Skathan in the comics, the Emperor of the Dynasty on Darkside) possibly being another Avatar of her? I've read the WoB on Patji about it being an Avatar of Autonomy formed of her Intent but not quite Splintered off her, and I understand that bit but why would Hoid leave the letter to him? Was access to Bavadin blocked at that point due to her closing off Taldain?
  9. Hi all, this is my first post, so I hope I’m doing this correctly! I’ve been re-reading stormlight (3rd time through) and spending a lot of time on the wikis and forums and q&a transcriptions trying to wrap my mind around all the cosmere level things. So my thoughts today went along theses lines: Tanavast/honor split off a part of his investiture and creates the stormfather intentionally. The nightwatcher is an analogous entity from cultivation (wyndle also refers to either cultivation or the nightwatcher as mother). All the spren of the radiant orders exist on sort of a spectrum between honor and cultivation. We are told there can only be up to 3 bondsmiths, and this limitation presumably comes because there are only 3 spren who can create a bondsmith, the stormfather is the first, most of us assume the nightwatcher is the second (although I’m not sure if this is confirmed), and a third “sibling” who appears to be a big RAFO. We also know tanavast and the vessel of cultivation (I don’t believe we know her name?) were romantically involved. So my question is twofold, one specific to Roshar and a more general extrapolation. Generally speaking, can a shard holding vessel/vessels reproduce (physically, cognitively, spiritually, magically?) and what effects would this have on a physical child from the union and on the power/investiture of the shard/s? More specifically did honor and cultivation have a physical child and if they did how is that child different because of their investiture/does the child get some of the shard power? Or did they create a 3rd mega-spren analogous to the stormfather & nightwatcher but containing part of them both?
  10. I know you can become ruin with enough atium, preservation with enough lerasium, and I believe becoming both with harmonium. this is because you are getting more and more pieces of the shard you eventually have more of the shard in you than the shard has in it, right? So with that reasoning, I heard somewhere on here that a Shardblade is the physical manifestation of honor and preservation, kind of like atium or lerasium. So with that, if you have enough Shardblades, you ascend. i don’t know about the other shards though. Maybe for endowment enough breath? how can you ascend to shardhood for each shard? And are there ways other than through having a lot of godly things?
  11. I’ve already submitted this to the list of questions to ask Brandon, but I thought I’d let the community pick this apart. Can/have Shards had children after ascending to become Shards? I believe that they can have children because they can manifest themselves in the Physical Realm and interact with it. As far as whether they have had children I have no specific people in mind but I wouldn’t be surprised if we learned about a couple. What are your thoughts?
  12. Sorry if someone has suggested this theory before. In Arcanum Unbounded: The Cosmere Collection, in "The Scadrian System," it says, That seems to imply that not all Vessels for the Shards were human; otherwise it would be unnecessary for Khriss to state this. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but Yolen is where Dragonsteel takes place, so I think that it is likely that the Vessels of some of the Shards may have been dragons, not humans. I really like the idea that some of the Shards were dragons, but what do you think? Is this theory plausible?
  13. This is obviously purely philosophical, but I was just wondering, if not for her relationship with Honor, would Cultivation have been drawn to Scadrial either instead of or in addition to Preservation? People often say that Preservation and Ruin were both drawn to Scadrial because of their opposing intents, kind of like two poles of a magnet. But strictly speaking Ruin and Preservation are NOT opposites. Ruin is essentially regression and Preservation is essentially stasis. The true opposite of Ruin is actually Cultivation, at least if we assume that her overall intent is growth/progression, which appears to be the case from what little we’ve seen of her. Preservation is effectively smack in between Ruin and Cultivation in terms of intent. And indeed, I would think that if someone were to simultaneously hold the Shards of Ruin and Cultivation, the result very well might effectively be a second more powerful Shard of Preservation, since the net effect of their two intents would cancel each other out. Anyone have any thoughts?
  14. This is my plan to destroy the Cosmere: 1. Get Nightblood. Nightblood is probably the most invested weapon in the Cosmere: However, Nightblood is not invested enough to kill a Shard: So I need to make him more powerful, which I will do in step two: 2. Strengthen Nightblood. to increase Nightblood's strength, you must feed him investiture. This can be done in two ways: 1. you let him feed off of the investiture that you are holding, the best method for this would probably be to become a knight radiant, then go out in a storm and draw him, letting him feed off of stormlight. 2. Kill heavily invested stuff with him. This is the option that I will be using, as it will be far faster. My first target will be the unmade, as per this WoB: Since he has more investiture than the Unmade, I will kill all ten of them first, then while all of Roshar is rejoicing, I will kill the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher, whatever the third bondsmith spren is, Cusicesh the protector, and any other large spren on Roshar. I will then kill all of the avatars of Autonomy, starting with Patji. If Nightblood isn't strong enough yet, I will take a side trip to Sel, and let him spend some time in the Dor. Then comes step Three: 3. Eliminate all the shards. I will start with Endowment, as she is most likely the weakest, having intentionally splintered herself to give everyone breaths. After this, I will work my way through the shards, ending with Odium and Harmony, in that order. Obviously for this plan to work, I would need a way to hide both myself and Nightblood from the Shards until it is too ate for them to stop him. Anyone have any suggestions or problems with my plan?
  15. theory

    I think that Vax is somehow connected to the Ire and is possibly a Shard Vessel. Here is my reasoning: Vax is only mentioned in Elantris and Mistborn Secret History. Both feature Elantrians extensively Vax's name alone doesn't provide much information by itself, but we know that Brandon seems to provide some clues using anagrams (Adonalsium = "a mind, a soul"). What's the anagram of “Vax Ire”? Xavier Now, the name Xavier is an interesting one. I didn't exist before the 16th century and originated with Francis Xavier, who was a missionary in Japan and China. Brandon was an LDS missionary in Korea and Far East cultures were one of the inspirations for Selish magic systems The name Xavier also comes from Basque language and means either “castle” or “new house”. The Ire have a fortress in the Cognitive Realm, which serves as their new home after they left Sel Vax is heavily suggested to be a place, but it's not confirmed (WoB) and I don't think it makes much sense. The Ire probably have fortresses all over Cognitive Realm and that hardly deserves a separate name I believe Vax could be the name of an Ire Shard Vessel. According to this WoB, the Ire expected their orb to work and it was not a test. It is possible then that they have already tried that before and on of the Ire Ascended. We know that there is a Shard not held by original Vessel that isn't Harmony (WoB) and a Shard that's not on a planet that isn't Ambition (WoB). I think they're one and the same and that this Shard is Vax Vax as a Shard also explains Ati's reaction. The first person he sees after he dies is Kelsier and he's a Sliver who Ascended using Ire technology. If we assume he can sense that, it's not a surprise he mistakes Kelsier for Vax Since Vax didn't Invest on any planet, I assume the Ire can somehow tap his powers directly from the Spiritual Realm using their technology. We've seen them accessing Connection and Fortune, so why not Investiture? This mechanism explains why Vax ad Taldain are mentioned alongside each other in Elantris Ars Arcanum. On Taldain, the Investiture comes from the Sun. Vax's Investiture comes directly from Spritual Realm which I believe is the Sun over Cognitive Realm (a more detailed discussion here) Vax could also be the Shard originally meant for the Rithmatist (spoilers): One of the planets in the Selish system is Kii (Aon of Justice) which could be related to Vax's Intent
  16. I was wondering today about Investment . A Shard moves to a planet , invests , and causes the Planet to be permeated with its essence . So when Adonalsium was whole did They invest in the planet of Yolen . If so those people would be extremely Powerful , maybe like Hoid is the common person so to speak . I wondered if Adonalsium invested into the whole Cosmere ! To me this seems more likely and would Explain why the Drominod system has a perpendicularity with no Shard ( my first theory on this was there was a Shard hiding thier) anyways . 16 powers , divided up amongst. The Cosmere . On Planets where two shards are present we see extremely powerful beings . TLR (Scadrial ) The Fused , Heralds and Radiants on Roshar , The Elantrians on Sel . On Planets with a single Shard the magic is less impressive . Taldain sandmasters are no mistborn for example . Threnodites who Shard was destroyed has little to no power. So this brings me back to my Original point imagine if Adonalsium invested into Yolen and Yolen only . I know there are Dragons thier . But they still would be some Cosmic level entities or one would think . So I propose three Camps camp 1 Adonalsium did not invest anywhere camp 2 Adonalsium invested into the whole Cosmere camp 3 Adonalsium invested into Yolen and all the planets in that system ! What camp amp are you in?
  17. So, there was this WoB: (spoilered for length) That states that the way Autonomy's Avatars work has to do with the fact that she is a Shard of Adonalsium. All the Shards were once one as Adonalsium, meaning that all the Shardworlds that he created have Intents of all the Shards combined that their Shardholders haven't accessed due to their mind's limitations. This is the difference between a Splinter and an Avatar. A Splinter is a shaved off portion of the Shard, whereas an Avatar is Investiture from Adonalsium that has the same Intent as the Shard My theory is that: couldn't someone take up enough of a mixture of different Intents to create a new Shard? Brandon does consider Harmony to be a single Shard and said that if Harmony died, he'd leave behind the Shard of Harmony, not Shards of Preservation and Ruin and it would take effort to separate them again. He has also said that Harmony could be separated into two different Shards. Furthermore, he has said that if the original Vessels were different there could have been different Shards, as well as that if the number of Shards was due to the number of original Vessels. The WoBs: Would someone be able to have the same Intent as a pre-existing Shard? I don't think so as the Investiture should be keyed to the original Shareholder but what if the new Shareholder interprets the Intent differently?
  18. During TWoK Wit and Dalinar are Having a conversation . During wich Wit casually drops the name Adonalsium . Dalinar has no idea what Wit was talking about . We as readers do . But why does Wit wonder if Dalinar does ??? This conversation is very important and I have two separate theories as to why it took place . One this conversation gave me Hoids plan to put Adonalsium. Back together and I wanted to see if everyone saw it how I did . Secondly why did he say it to Dalinar ? I think Hoid/Wit perceived with his Hoidsense that Dalinar would soon ascend to be in possession of a Shard . He wanted to see if Dalinar knew anything about it . How shards are splineterec and such. I think he wanted to see when he got ready to put his plan into action he wondered if Dalinar would help him. Dalinar was clueless so Wit prattled on and played simpleton. And moved on . I managed to copy and paste the conversation . I do not post from a computer . I post on my phone so it’s very hard for me to get the clip exactly right . But everything I have clipped you will need to read anyways if you want to form a theory . So does anyone agree with me ? Does Wit want to put them back together? “Winds are changing,” Wit whispered. Dalinar glanced at him. Wit’s eyes narrowed, and he scanned the night sky. “It’s been happening for months now. A whirlwind. Shifting and churning, blowing us round and around. Like a world spinning, but we can’t see it because we’re too much a part of it.” “World spinning. What foolishness is this?” “The foolishness of men who care, Dalinar,” Wit said. “And the brilliance of those who do not. The second depend on the first—but also exploit the first—while the first misunderstand the second, hoping that the second are more like the first. And all of their games steal our time. Second by second.” “Wit,” Dalinar said with a sigh. “I haven’t the mind for this tonight. I’m sorry if I’m missing your intent, but I have no idea what you mean.” “I know,” Wit said, then looked directly at him. “Adonalsium.” Dalinar frowned more deeply. “What?” Wit searched his face. “Have you ever heard the term, Dalinar?” “Ado … what?” “Nothing,” Wit said. He seemed preoccupied, unlike his usual self. “Nonsense. Balderdash. Figgldygrak. Isn’t it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched[…]” Excerpt From The Way of Kings Brandon Sanderson https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-way-of-kings/id376229549 This material may be protected by copyright.
  19. [Note: Reposted from older thread, which originally asked us to speculate about Odium's method of shattering shards.] My theory is that Odium's advantage and ability to shatter other shards is tied very tightly to his intent. Consider: 1. Odium's Intent Allows him to Perceive Evil and Flaws in Others Odium (at one point named “Anger”) appears to be an aspect of divine wrath. Divine wrath is not merely objectless anger or hatred, however, it is specifically hatred of evil (E.g. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, etc.) We know that Odium’s wrath is “separated from the virtues that gave it context” – so mercy, justice, and even the principles of “lex talionis” (“eye for an eye”) do not bar his anger. However, to be able to be wrathful about something, you must still have some conception of where it has gone wrong. Odium isn't just wrathful against anything and everything - his wrath has a focus. Whenever I think of Odium, I am reminded of the Demon’s Mirror from the “Snow Queen” fairy tale, described here: I think Odium’s intent makes him see both people and shards in their most negative, evil aspects. He compares them to perfection, and, in so doing, is filled with hatred towards their flaws and vices. It is this which makes him despise and hate the other shards, for he sees the ways in which they fail the people and cause misery and suffering. We see, I think, a hint of this in Odium’s conversation with Dalinar in chapter 57. Odium states that I think he is aware of how the other Shards are flawed and that this leads him to hate them. This explains both his desire to destroy them and his desire to remain unalloyed with their power, which from his perspective would be corrupting. We also see a little bit of Odium’s nature in his choice of allies: he fights with the party first injured in the desolation, the ancient Singers who were forced out of their land by humanity. He sees the evil the humans have done and he hates and despises it, but his hatred has no proportionality or mercy. He is willing to completely destroy even generations which have no knowledge of the crime and wipe them from the face of Roshar. I suspect, even should he succeed, Odium’s wrath would merely turn upon the victors (since they would have killed innocents in the process of victory). In fact, I suspect this has already happened once. I think Odium led the first desolation where the humans attacked the voidbringers, probably in response to some sort of wrong, then promptly switched sides to avenge the attacked party and punish the sins on the human side. In this way, his wrath is an example of the saying “an eye for an eye makes the world blind.” Evil begets evil and so Odium’s wrath is never satiated – he sees all the flaws and will always be supporting a twisted sort of vengeance till eternity end. 2. The Ability to See Flaws allows Odium to See Weaknesses in Shards Seeing the flaws of both mortal and Shard however, would provide Odium with a distinct advantage. It means he can see where a Shard is in conflict with their intent, or where their intent is flawed. He is aware of their Hamartia (fatal flaws). Since all of the Shards are pieces of a complete unity, they each have weaknesses that make them blind to their own particular evils – none of them are perfectly “good” or can act perfectly in align with their intent. My theory is that shattering specifically occurs when a shard is forced into a position where it acts against its own intent or else is forced to face the flaw in its own intent in a major way. In Honor’s case, I suspect he was shattered either upon breaking one of his own Oaths or upon realizing that Oaths were fundamentally flawed. (I think the Herald’s betrayal is strongly tied into this in some way and that it either forced him to go against one of his oaths or else made him realize that Odium was correct and oaths were imperfect.) Hypothetically then, any Shard forced into a position that goes against its own intent would be shattered. Preservation, for example, might be shattered by either getting its power to cause an act of great destruction, or else demonstrating that, by preserving things, it is in fact ruining them by making their natures fundamentally different. Cultivation might be shattered by either forcing it to “burn” its “gardens” or else revealing a flaw in its methods of “cultivation”. Ambition might have been shattered by forcing it into a position of subservience and so on and so forth. I don’t know enough about most of the other shards to speculate, but I think given enough information a flaw in each of their intents could be found.) If true, Odium could potentially be shattered in one of several ways: 1) Forcing him into a position where his wrath is turned inward to attack his own flaws.* 2) Forcing him to confront a being of perfect good which has no flaws. 3) Forcing him to confront one of the virtues which wrath is supposed to be associated with (i.e. mercy), something good which takes into account error/sin and forgives or heals it. * I can’t help but wonder if this hasn’t already happened to a certain degree. We know the Unmade are, at least in some respect, Shards of Odium. Perhaps he is confronting evil aspects inherent in all men (including himself) and intentionally removing these “flaws” from the Shard, spinning them off as separate evil entities and thus making himself “the Broken one”. Alternatively, they might be “distorted reflections” of the evil in either men or Shards that he uses to accomplish his attacks. Cultivation would probably be in a good position to pull something like this off, probably by guiding the people of Roshar, both Singer and human, to rally against him and reject their mutual hatred in a larger version of Dalinar’s refusal to let Odium “have his pain” (i.e. his flaw). However, if Odium were shattered, I think the result would likely be tragedy. Consider the above quote with the Demon’s Mirror. If he is shattered, Odium would become even worse, because his splinters would enter into the hearts of men, Singer, Spren, and (perhaps) Shard and begin to destroy them. Instead of one locus of hatred, there would be many. 3. Possible Objections: Objection 1: An enhanced ability to see flaws may in fact be part of Odium’s nature, but the shattering may still be done by corrupting investiture. Odium would probably be better at corrupting investiture under this theory than other Shards, because he would see the “flaws” in the magic be able to take advantage of this, twisting the investiture towards his own use. Response 1: This is likely true. However, to destroy a shard, Odium would most probably have to corrupt a large portion of their investiture (perhaps close to half) to be able to overpower them. It seems unlikely that he would be able to corrupt such a large portion of their nature, particularly if they found out and resisted. Response 2: In corrupting investiture, Odium must exert some of his power. He will thus weaken himself proportionally to how much he invests. He might, if clever, be able to use this to destroy one Shard if he outfought them. However, if he must use so much power, how can he possibly destroy two? (Which he has done once and is attempting to do again.) In attacking one Shard, Odium would leave himself vulnerable to the other, who has their investiture free and now knows how he shattered the first shard. I think the shattering must instead be something that can be swift and not readily accomplished by the other shard. Response 3: If the corrupted investiture is formed by the power of two shards, why can the other Shard not attack Odium through the same route? You say because the other shard has invested more in the world. But if Odium is investing some power in the other Shard’s magic, why can that Shard not turn the corruption against him? Response 4: Some of the suggested corruptions do not seem to be influenced by Honor. The unmade in particular do not appear to have anything honorable about them. I do not see any good reason to believe they are large chunks of Honor’s power that have been corrupted (at this time). The voidsurges DO seem to be corruptions of the Nahel bond, but this bond was first formed by Spren, who figured out how to mimic what Honor did with the Honorblades. Though I suppose it’s possible that the formation of the voidish surges was a corruption of Honor’s investiture, I’m not sure of this. Response 5: If Odium uses the corruption method, then Honor should have been unraveling ever since Odium first formed the corrupted voidlight. However, since they seem to have been around a long time and Honor seems to have shattered relatively abruptly, I do not see how they can be the weapon that did it. Objection 2: Odium names himself Passion and, although Brandon implies he is partially deceiving himself, his words and methods seem to imply that there is in fact some truth to this. Response 1: Odium does in fact feel emotion besides anger. Anger is powerful precisely in so far as it mourns the loss of what is good. He thus does experience the positive emotions he states – joy, happiness, etc. etc. – because he must first appreciate these things before he can be wrathful for their loss. He must first love innocence before he can hate evil for defiling it. His interpretation thus is in some ways closer to the truth than the interpretation that he is mere “anger,” but it also misses the mark in that he is not just raw emotion (else his emotion would not be weighted towards vengeance). Response 2: Odium is represented in Dalinar’s vision as a flame. This is similar, interestingly, to the Altar of the Saints described in Revelation, which is fed by the tears and mourning of the oppressed: “I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?” The altar is fueled by injustice – by passion, by weeping, by joys lost, by sorrows and fear – but it burns at the foot of the throne of God, bringing their prayers and mourning into his presence, and fuels his wrath towards the wicked. Metaphorically, I think Odium’s flame is similar. The weeping and prayers of the people, their emotions, feed his wrath. In fact, now that I think of it, the burning of glyph wards may in fact be an aspect of Vorinism that originated in the old world and once was (or perhaps still is) of Odium. Response 3: I believe Odium may be using the interpretation of himself as emotion to avoid his own fatal flaw -- the fact that he is wrath unbound by virtue. He thus interprets all the evil emotions inside himself as simply part of a vast "Passion," which of course must contain these negative emotions. In this way, he bears no guilt for anything he does that is evil and need not confront his own flaws. Response 4: Both Ruin and Odium discuss passion, and, we are told, so would other shards. I think "Passion" is probably something Brandon has used to divide shards into categories, much as with the metals in Allomancy. Ruin and Odium possess Passion as it is part of their intent (and apparently the intent of other shards), but they are not passion itself. This was originally posted in the Cosmere forum, but some people recommended that I make it into its own topic and I think it fits better in the Stormlight Forum since I am mostly discussing Odium. Original post: I welcome any criticism and particularly any insight into Brandon's comments that may be relevant to this conversation.
  20. Ok, so bear with me on this one. Something has been bothering me, like many who read Oathbringer, ever since Odium said "We killed you." Like many Stormlight fans, I have been mentally (and literally) screaming "What do you mean by WE!" And anyway I've done some thinking, and I think that Unity, instead of a new Shard, as many have theorized, is actually and old Shard that used to live on Roshar. A Shard that was (presumably) killed by Odium and ((possibly Honor?)) (((Working together?))) There is a little possible evidence for this. In the death rattles, one of them goes like "Three of Sixteen ruled, now the broken one reigns" or something like that. Feel free to correct that. Anyway, the way that is worded makes it seem like Odium, the broken one, is not in that original three. Also, since we know there are 3 god-spren--the Storm dad, Nightwatcher, and the Sibling, that leads me to believe that there used to be 3 Shards other than Odium, since it doesn't make sense to me that a Knight Raidiant would bond to a spren of Odium, or that Cultivation or Honor would have two god-spren. That other Shard, Unity, was not liked by Honor or Cultivation or any other Shard. Which makes sense, because they might feel threatened by the fact that he might try to Unite the Shards back into Adonalsium or something. I'm thinking that the Cryptics might be spren of Unity, which is why nobody likes them. It also just makes sense, because math and lies don't really make sense as belonging to Honor or Cultivation, but I can see Unity liking the fact that math is a unifying principle of the universe or something like that. Also, it would make sense because the Dawn Cities are all math based, and they are linked the Uthirthiru in some way ( I think theres a line about the strata being similar? And they both are grown out of rock? Feel free to check that.) And we know that the sibling was related to the tower city as well. So, if the Sibling is a spren of Unity, it all works out. Honor or Cultivation (or both) wanted to get rid of him, but couldn't due to limitation based on their Shard Intent. Neither of them could kill Unity, so they invited Odium, knowing his violent reputation, to come on over to Roshar so he could take care of Unity. That also explains why Odium was allowed onto Roshar on the first place, because I feel like two Shards working together could have blocked him from coming there, if they so wished. Anyway, Odium splintered Unity (possibly with help from one or more of the other Shards) and decided to stay. Eventually, he also splintered Honor, and Cultivation went into hiding. A part of Unity survived, and may have been that voice that's been guiding Dalinar since Book One. That voice seems really distinct from the Stormfather, and I think he once even said so in Oathbringer that he wasn't talking when Dalinar heard the "Unite them" voice. The light that Dalinar feels at the end of books Two and Three may also be the effects of Unity. Dalinar was able to briefly hold whatever is left of Unity, which allowed him to summon the Perpendicularity and all that fun stuff at the end of Book 3. I think that as the books progress, we will only keep on seeing how Unity is actually separate, and wants to be revived. Some odd bits: The splintering might have been the Scouring of Aimia. The Aimians that are a bunch of cremlings seem like something that Unity might have created or liked (since it's a bunch of cremlings unified into one creature) and he might have lived in Aimia. The Unmade might be corrupted Splinters of Unity. I don't think that Odium could have nine relatively large spren of himself and still remain as powerful as he is, so I think he corrupted the Splinters of Unity after he killed him, and those became the Unmade. Obviously, it isn't a perfect theory. And if you've made it to the bottom, congrats on somehow getting through all my disorganized thoughts. Anyway, I want to know what you think, so please feel free to share your thoughts on my theory!
  21. We know that there are 16 shards in total, and we know that Odium has killed 4 of them (Ambition, Honor, Devotion, and Dominion). Devotion and Dominion have been left in the Cognitive Realm, and are the force of Dor . We know that Odium battled Ambition in the Threnodite system, and that Ambition was fatally wounded. We know Odium doesn't want to take up Honor's shard because taking on a Shard can change you (I can't find the reference for this, I think it was a WOB in the Skyward tour). I suspect that Odium is actually the power of at least 2 shards, possibly Hate and Ambition. Are there strong thoughts for or against this theory of mine?
  22. HUGE SPOILERS FOR IF YOU'RE NOT CAUGHT UP ON THE COSMERE (Apologies if I mess up the format. This is my first discussion post) Adonalsium was the combined power of all of the Shards. If one took a piece of each of the Shards and combined the pieces, could it make a Shard that was basically a mini Adonalsium? There could be many advantages to this, such as not being consumed by the power (Preservation was driven to Preserve at all costs, Ruin turned Ati into a monster, Honor became obsessed with the word rather than spirit of oaths) and being able to tap into multiple magic systems. We've seen that Hoid is collecting magic from all across the Cosmere. The bead of Lerasium is a large chunk of Preservation, a Shardblade is a piece of Honor, Breaths are pieces of Endowment, and Hoid's ability to sense where he's needed might be linked to Fortune. Perhaps his goal is related to this theory?
  23. During WoK one of Dalinar’s Visions he see’s the Recreance. He estimates 200 shardbearers divesting themselves of there shards . He further gives an account of current shards . Alektkar has 20 , Jah keved has 20, and all remaining nations equal up to what the two major nations have collectively. So that is 80 shardblades . My question is where is the other 120 . Is there a hidden stockpile ? Maybe the parshendi have them hidden or is there just a big stockpile of shards somewhere on the shattered plains . Taln blade is not in the histories , not his honorblade but the blade that he showed up with in WoK was not in any scholars descriptions . So I’m trying to figure who is hiding all those shards . I really don’t think it’s the parshendi . My best guess is the heralds May have hidden them somewhere. Or some other Organization but that’s an aweful lot of shards to go unaccounted for
  24. what name do you think the greater shards will be called we have harmony so far but what do you think the other 119 combinations could be called? i like discipline being odium+honour
  25. How did ruin and preservation create Scadrial , we know the planet was not already there and we know they created all of the life there , my question is how did they do that ? Did they simply use space dust that was already present or did they convert their investiture directly into matter ??? I'm just confused