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Found 6 results

  1. What is the worst possible match of a vessel and shard that you could think of assuming that the person connects with the shard no problem and takes it up ? Like worst in a sense that it causes the most weirdness, chaos and just absolute despair for people. Only from the existing pool of characters in Cosmere. I'll mention the most obvious of them all. Kelsier(before meeting Vin) as Ambition.
  2. I'm gonna say from the very beginning is that my take on this is more on that the HoA being a Discord rather than Harmony. Sorry if the title might not fit the post. Can't think of other title atm. Also not sure how the spoiler policy of OB on Cosmere Theory forum works so better be sure than sorry. Should've been a simply prophecy text that is relevant only to Mistborn Trilogy context that i'm not so sure anymore since it could mean extremely interesting narrative direction for the future of Mistborn franchise and Cosmere in general. Also the very obvious capitalization of the word and the hero of ages prophecy being weirdly word by word accurate(like the "on his arms" or the gender neuter thing) and i don't think Ruin changed the text that much. This kind of theorycrafting also inspired me more after reading Oathbringer where if i assume Rayse wasn't lying would mean that he's actually truly the Shard of Passion but people chose to call him Odium. And i don't think Rayse is lying considering that when he let him experience his infinity like other shards have before(Sazed to Wax during era2) and i don't think shards will lie about their intent to the utmost extent(considering that's what they're endorsing/implementing in the first place) as you would assume especially regarding themselves which Dalinar experienced emotions of all ranges. Even supporting that he might actually be a shard of passion or at least a synonym as his general policy for his army/people has been about passion and his minions claiming interest with Moash due to his "strong passion". So far apart from the manipulations of Ruin of the prophecy of the Hero of Ages. It hasn't lied to us and for some reason i doubt this was either shards doing. Another is that from Era2 Sazed has been stating being tied between the conflict of two shards and still insisting on balancing them. Could it be that him trying to please both masters is what causing his inactivity in the first place and the less he is about balancing the better he is at freedom from both shards. Also kinda makes sense with him being a young vessel which might've occured to other shards who fought their nature at the start. That Oathbringer event may imply that our Hero of Ages might not actually be the intent he says or could eventually change into what it was meant to be. Which brings me to these thoughts about Sazed's actual intent as the wielder of Preservation and Ruin (could've already been theorized by others as well and some i read from other post about discord/harmony) which might be more plausible/possible/would you support ? Harmony is Harmony and i'm wearing too much tinfoil hat i should stop. Sazed ascended as Harmony but is slowly being molded/evolved into Discord. Sazed thinks he's Harmony but he's actually Discord from the very beginning Sazed does not actually care if he's Discord but chose to name himself Harmony maybe for some reason The prophecy is averted abit which is why we have Harmony instead of Discord(not all future sight happening accurately ?) Could it be that his name, intent and being finally becoming Discord is just a matter of acceptance just like his role as the Hero of Ages, or about his acceptance of change/death is a natural thing to connect with Ruin. Could it be ? Questions Does it mean that the reason why Sazed is actually more limited than he should be has more to do with him trying insist he's Harmony(the balance between shards) rather than him being actually discord (the differences between the shards) ? If Sazed remains Harmony till the endgame cosmere does that mean he becomes more active or actually just gets worse and becoming more and more inactive ? What about him becoming discord ? Did we actually misunderstand Harmony and overtime he actually gains more freedom rather than being tied ? That Harmony could actually just do just about anything just like how incredibly flexible autonomy and endowment seems to be ? If assuming him becoming Discord is actually right and gives him freedom. Doesn't that make him incredibly dangerous and finally a big player of cosmere ? Since he's more interactive i assume Thoughts ? Supporting statements? Disagreements ? Theories ? Further Elaborations ? Anything resembling to thoughts about the matter ? Anything is welcome !(so excited about this topic after OB events sinking in and plenty of reading former discussion threads about this here or on reddit)
  3. We know that the shards that even those who are mostly self-involved(Harmony) have some knowledge or aren't completely blind to what's happening around other systems especially Roshar(it seems that everybody knows the chaotic situation there). We know that Autonomy has seemingly been spreading her influence everywhere, Cultivation/Odium stuck with each other, Harmony and Endowment doing their own thing on their own world while the others being dead or we don't even know the other shards or where they are ATM. The other shards also have their own side business aside the worlds they occupy, all but endowment. Any WoB or any information regarding what she's been upto apart from managing her own world ? She has a very interesting shard and she actually seemed generally nice for a shard but we have so little information of her or even her shard. Conceptually her shard should as interesting as Autonomy and just as flexible but we have nothing about her.
  4. About half a year ago, I posted up a thread in Cosmere Theories called Narrowing Down the Last Shards (below) in which we as a forum posited many excellent ideas. It's long but worth the read as much of what I say in this post I derived from there. I have since changed my opinion with some ideas I'm sure you all will appreciate and tear up as you please. Having said that, in this thread I will go a step further. Not only will we try to discern the remaining six Shards, but we will ask what we can do with that information, and theorize what kind of magic, worlds, and people those Shards may have created. Thus, I present to you The Rest of the Shards and Where to Find Them. So as before, here are some things we think we know, and some suppositions, before I get to the List: Shards are all godly attributes, possibly based on the Judeo/Christian god, Adonai (for which Adonalsium was named). Shards do not have perfect pairs or opposites Shards may also be considered to have many opposites There is a Shard (besides Ambition) that has not Invested in a planet. Aforementioned Shard wants to hide and survive because it is a wise decision. Survival is not the capitalized intent, and is only tangentially related to the capitalized Intent. Shards' Intents, by the definition of the word, are active. They have a goal. Odium is the most dangerous of the Shards. Ambition was #1 on Odium's hit list, which means that there are no other Shards which he would find more dangerous than Ambition. Hoid and Frost know what they're talking about. I know I missed a few things that I wanted to say. Feel free (as before) to correct me, or add to the things we know. Most of that is from WoB, and some supposition, and was derived from previous responses. Part 1: The Rest of the Shards: Disclaimer #1: Not all of the ideas for Shard names were mine, and I am not claiming that they are original. I appreciate all the thought you wonderful people have put into this, and thank you for broadening my mind on this subject. I will ping some of the contributors of the original thread in the references in Part 3. Disclaimer #2: As I mentioned above, Adonalsium is likely based off of the Judeo/Christian God. I am a believer, and some of the Intents are based on my views of God. They may not match your own, and that's okay. Please do not take my posited Intents or arguments thereof as me trying to convert you. The Intents are speculation based on my beliefs, Brandon's beliefs, and are just as valid in this discussion as your own. I hope that we can discuss this subjectively. Disclaimer #3: This will be a lengthy post, and I don't think I will hide anything in spoilers to shorten it. If it looks too long too read, fret not. I won't be insulted if you just want to skim through the list at first, and simply read the parts that interest you. If you do wish to respond to something, however, please take the time to read my opinion on it, otherwise, I may just quote stuff I already said back at you. I don't mean to be insulting if I do so, so don't take it as snark. Disclaimer #4: I recognize the possibility that Brandon may not have finalized all of the Shards Intents as of yet, which would render all of this rather useless. But of course, this is the Shard where we can discuss any theories no matter how baseless they are! Brandon, if you're reading this and I'm right about everything, I promise I didn't break into your personal wiki, and if I correctly guess future magic systems or worlds, I promise not to say that they're my ideas. I'll just be glad that I called it. As before, Shards we know are in Green, and Shards we don't know are in Red. This does not mean that they are in the correct groupings, however. This is all speculation. The four quadrants that I believe make up the being Adonalsium are as follows: Creation, Personality/Authority, Action, and Divinity. I believe we can put all sixteen Shards into groups of four, as opposed to pairs as I originally thought. Group 1: Creation Many have spoken (in-universe and out) that Preservation and Ruin are the forces of creation. This is not wrong, but I don't think that's the be-all and end-all of the Creation force that is Adonalsium. Some of these Intents refer not only to the physical creation of nature, but actions and mindsets about people. (Cultivation or Sanctification of followers for example) Cultivation: Growth, Creation, Sanctification Cultivation embodies positive change with the intent of creating something better. It can destroy things if necessary in order to make something better out of it, or in its place. Preservation: Guarding, Stasis, Immutability Preservation cannot create anything new on its own; it can only act to preserve what is already in place. Preservation also points to the god attribute of immutability, the unchanging nature of God. Ruin: Destruction, Decay, Entropy Ruin's end goal is to break everything down to its most basic parts. Historically, Ruin was able to help create things, only if it let him destroy more things afterward. Brandon has remarked that this would make Ruin compatible with Cultivation, which supports this theory. Chaos: Neutrality, Quiescence, Abeyance, "Letting the chips fall where they may" As I mentioned in the "Things we think we know" section, Shards need to have an active goal in order to fulfill the logical requirements of the word "Intent". For this reason, I am not totally sold on any of the above-selected words, but more the overarching goal of them collectively. The obvious hole in the quadrant is the art of negative neutrality, in the same way as Preservation is a positive neutrality. However, as Intent denotes activity, it cannot truly be neutral. Thus, I settled on the word "Chaos". Group 2: Personality/Authority Adonalsium was seen as God in the cosmere (source: Hoid & Frost). We need the personality of God (based on the Judeo/Christian God as above) as well as his right to rule if we want to fulfill all of the necessary components that make up who they are. Dominion: Controlling, Ruling, Conquering This is the type of power Adonalsium would have by divine right, similar to a king or a god. Charisma: Leadership, Magnetism This is the type of power that would make Adonalsium worthy of being served. What good is the authority of a god if they are not worthy? It is a hole that needs filling, and it contrasts the other names in this quadrant. I know many people aren't sold on the name; neither am I. But it is the best word I've found to communicate the broadness of the overarching Intent of the hole in this quadrant. Devotion: Servitude, Care, Love, Mercy I feel the need to point out that Devotion is a fairly broad definition, which includes many other Intents many people have posited for names of Shards (including Love). Brandon himself called it Love before he changed it to Devotion. This is the reason why I do not have "Love" in any of the quadrants, as it is included in Devotion. I used to have this Shard paired with Odium as I had asked Brandon if they were opposites. His reply was that they "could be considered as such", however, Odium does not fit with this quadrant, so I abandoned that line of thought. I may have just left too much wiggle room in what we consider as opposites, as people have pointed out before. Autonomy: Independence, Freedom This Shard point's to the godly attribute of independence, god's self-sufficiency in that they do not require anything. Autonomy is a weird Shard with a highly...debatable Intent, which has led to some confusion in the past on how we can define a Shard's Intent. The consensus is that the Vessel is able to act on their interpretation of the Intent, and that the Intent may change slightly as a result, depending on the Vessel. This may be what Brandon meant when he said that Adonalsium could have been split in different ways. Group 3: Action Going again back to the nature of Shardic Intent, Adonalsium is a god of action. He was a creation-force that had a goal in mind, and this should be true for the Shards as well. The four below Intents cover most, if not all, of the main actions the Judeo/Christian god. Endowment: Giving, Mercy With love and care, god would be one who gives to his followers in order that they use their gifts for his glory (see: Spiritual gifts). Separated from the context of other Shards and their respective Intents, Endowment becomes what we see in Warbreaker. In conjunction with the other Shards in this grouping and the others, I believe that Endowment includes mercy and forgiveness, though there is an argument that they may be a Shard on their own. Retribution: Punishment, Justice, Vengeance A favourite of many on this thread, and one I used to oppose, I have come to see that this Shard would contrast Endowment (including mercy), and Honor, rather than being part of Honor (though that argument is still intact), Retribution is an action the Judeo/Christian god does quite a lot of, separated by his promises (Honor). Ambition: Taking, Improving, Acting If there is a Shard that is tenuously...off...in this grouping, Ambition would be the one (In which case I would replace it with Mercy). The only reason I say that is because Ambition (though involving action) is more of a mindset, like Odium (which would put it in the "Divinity" section below). However, it does make a good contrast with Endowment as well, and somewhat fills in the hole of a god demanding something from his followers. This works if we say Ambition involves sanctification of followers more than an improvement on God's behalf (which wouldn't be a godly attribute). Honor: Promising, Covenant We see both Honor and the Judeo/Christian god bind themselves to their promises, as well as expect it of their subjects. Group 4: Divinity The final grouping is the overarching theme of what makes god or Adonalsium divine (see: Hoid & Frost). It is, in fact, the most undisputed necessity of godhood. I will explain my choices below. Bear in mind that this is the one with the most unknowns, as there are still three Shards unaccounted for in my pattern. Therefore, this includes my suppositions on there needing to be a Shard of Wisdom/Enlightenment, and a Shard including Mystery, which are both heavily needed in a god figure like the Judeo/Christian god. Enlightenment: Wisdom, Knowledge, Omnipotence, Ingenuity Though all Shards have some measure of Omnipotence, we would be amiss to not include a Shard of Wisdom. It is my belief that this Shard is the Survival Shard that wants to hide, not Investing in a planet for fear of Odium, acknowledging that it is the wisest action for self-preservation. I included the possibility above of Ingenuity, as Brandon may have slipped and confirmed it accidentally, though that is a measure of semantics and debatable. Odium: "Divine Hatred", Wrath, Envy And we come to the villain of the Cosmere... I put Odium in this grouping because of Hoid's words: "He bears God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues which gave it context". Notice his use of the word "divine". In this grouping, if he was still part of Adonalsium, Divine Hatred is undoubtedly a big part of God's divinity and holiness. Enigma: Mystery, Paradox As I mentioned above, Mystery is a big part of what separates God from mortals. I chose Enigma because it sounds cooler it's more encompassing than Mystery. It definitely plays a role in Divinity and makes a good pairing with Enlightenment. I say "Paradox" because I know people will bring it up based on the obscure "Alcatraz Shard WoB" and it somewhat fits. Purity: Holiness, Chastity Admittedly, this is the Shard I am less sure on. I include it because Holiness is perhaps the largest part of divinity, and it gives Odium the context Hoid talks about. Also, there is a mysterious planet called Purity in the Threnodite system that doesn't follow the pattern of funeral songs. As I mentioned in the write-up for Ambition, it's possible that it belongs in this slot in Divinity, leaving Mercy in its place in Action. However, doing so would leave Odium without those virtues to give it context in the subject of Divinity, and would leave both groupings somewhat unbalanced. Edit 1: Added Part 2 in spoiler below (hopefully):
  5. Beware of spoilers, obviously. I suppose this qualifies more as a speculation than a question, but I figured I might as well ask. Having finished the Mistborn Trilogy several months ago, and being very near the end of Oathbringer, I had a thought. Thinking of characters like Odium, Cultivation and Honor, as well as Preservation and Ruin, and other Shards of Adonalsium, I began to wonder as to their respective strengths. In Mistborn, Ruin and Preservation were very near, if not identical, in strength, with Vin being able to destroy both herself and Ruin (consciousnesses only, but the Power itself remained, of course) and in Oathbringer the Stormfather talks about Odium being cautious to not overextend, lest he risk Cultivation climbing out of hiding to strike at him while he's vulnerable. This made me wonder, just how strong is Odium? And Sazed, now possessing both Ruin and Preservation, just how does he compare? Being in possession of two Shards, is he effectively twice as strong as someone like Odium or Cultivation, or do you guys think that maybe the Shards are not always equal in power?
  6. I just realized some crucial difference: some Shardholders have more freedom in their deeds than the others, regardless of their minds being warped to its Shard Intent or not. It depends on the Intent. For example: Preservation - makes it holder want to preserve all things. Cannot create, cannot change, can only preserve. Ruin - makes it holder want to ruin everything. Cannot create, cannot preserve, can only ruin. Odium - makes it holder want to hate everything (and apparently being hated by everyone) while Shards like: Honor - makes it holder want to be honorable... but he still has freedom to do anything, as long as it's a honorable thing and he is honorable about it Devotion - similarly, it only requires the holder to be devoted to some cause, doesn't specify what cause. And maybe inspire devotion in others. It's late in the night, so I will try to map other Shards later