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Found 47 results

  1. So when hoid meets kelsier in the well of Ascension , he kinda implies he was behind tlr's fall and refers to kelsier as a tool or something . So did hoid want to release Ruin so that Ruin could have battled odium. Hoid does say to dalinar that he would be willing to watch roshar burn , with tears yes but with no regret if it meant odium would fall . Wouldn't the same case apply for Scadrial ? It would explain what hoid was doing staying on Scadrial knowing ruin would destroy the planet, instead of hopping back into the cognitive realm and leaving Scadrial behind after pocketing the Lerasium. Hoid can live through a lot of things but I doubt he could live through the destruction of a world. Unless of course he had already made a deal with ruin , he would free ruin and in return ruin had to do him a favor , a destructive one ofcourse. So could it be true or did he someother reason to stay ? If so what was the reason ? Was it just hoids Spidey sense going wrong or did he think he could simply ingest the Lerasium and compound to survive the destruction of the planet and the vacuum of space ? Did he have enough metals to do that ? Wait but if preservation were to be splintered would allomancy and compounding work ? Wait did hoid intend to do harm to Vin ? Like I know he can't hurt anyone but maybe he could have given Vin false info so that she would invade fadrex and ruin would get his atium ? Also how did he manage to beat up kelsier so bad in the cognitive realm. I thought he had some sort of cognitive impedence regarding violence but he beat up kel in the CR so.... Oh is it that he couldn't actually harm kel , like he could beat him but apart from feeling pain kel wouldn't he harmed . Sorry I'm going all over the place now. My main question is was he behind tlr's fall ? Holy storm , Maybe mare was a female herald sent to manipulate Kel by hoid. She wasn't a tineye , she had a Spren or something . I mean it's a long shot but maybe the way he uses fortune helped him form a nebulous plan that worked with ruin's cooperation ?
  2. First off acknowledgement to @hwilesfor planting this idea in my head months ago. During a discussion about Kelsier earlier today on discord with @Spoolofwhool and @Blightsong, I mentioned an idea I picked up from Hwiles about how Kelsier regained a body. There's been numerous discussions on this, all most revolving around spiking Kelsier's Cognitive Aspect to a random body/Kandra and him taking over. I believe something different, and Spool and Blight helped flesh it out some. First, we need to look at the last half of this WoB from Boskone. So, when a worldhopper is physically in the Cognitive Realm, they do not in fact have a body. They are comprised wholely of investiture, but retain their connection to the Physical realm. That connection is the only difference between a worldhopper in the Cognitive Realm, and a Cognitive Shadow like Kelsier. So what if, instead of a spike into a body, which couldn't house the entirety of Kelsier's Cognitive aspect, the spike only contains someone's connection to the Physical Realm? From this WoB, we know that hemalurgy is possible in the Cognitive. (thanks @Overstorm) so a spike can be taken into the Cognitive Realm and used. If a spike were to steal the physical connection of a person, and then placed into Kel, he would then be composed of investiture in the Cognitive Realm and have a connection to the Physical Realm, just like every worldhopper. At this point, all he needs to do is go to a perpendicularity, and transition into the Physical Realm, the same as we've seen worldhoppers do before. When he steps through, his body should form from background investiture, or whatever mechanism works for your average worldhopper. Kelsier's body may not be his original, but it's 100% his own.
  3. the lost metal

    As the title says, who do you think will be join Wax on the cover of The Lost Metal?
  4. Now we know from secret history that like humans first originated in Yolen . And from arcanum and oathbringer that except for Scadrial and Roshar that humanity on all other planets predates the arrival of shards. So how did humanity spread across the Cosmere , were they technologically advanced and had mastered space travel but the shattering sent them back to pre history levels somehow or did adonalsium help them travel , using shard pools or oathgates or like with better control over the spiritual realm. We suspect that's how humans made it from Ashyn to Roshar. If so , were these humans at least at a mediaval level of tech and then somehow regressed desolation-style . I mean khriss says humanity was at it's prehistory when Devotion and Dominion came to Sel. Also why only humans . We know that dragons and some fain things also liver on Yolen and were equal to humans. Yet they didn't spread I think. Any thoughts or WoBs or theories ?
  5. So why did khriss immediately want to leave as soon as she heard hoid had stolen a bead of Lerasium . She told kelsier she was leaving anyway but she was literally just sitting drinking tea and chatting but as soon as she heard those words from kelsier she wanted to run away. Why exactly was she so afraid ? I mean Ruin was free , preservation was dying and yet she was unfazed but this little tidbit sent her fleeing. Also from what I have seen in stormlight hoid isn't really a bad guy. Sure it's a matter of perspective and hoid himself warns others about himself but still... Also it's mentioned on the copper mind that hoid respects khriss
  6. In Secret History (part 6, chapter 3), Kelsier attempts to speak into a soldier in Elend's army who's 'not broken, but merely ... open', and tries to let him spread the word that anyone pierced by metal cannot be trusted. However, this man named Midge tells the other soldiers that "I'm holy, and you just ain't" and start a brawl. During this brawl, one of the soldiers punches Demoux in the face. In The Hero of Ages (chapter 47) we see Demoux trying to stop a brawl, but one of the soldiers (Bilg, see his Coppermind page here) punches Demoux in the face. Conclusion 1: This, along with a couple of other hints about the setting, makes me think that we're talking about the same brawl here. Most of you will probably agree so far. To proceed ... after the brawl, Ham mentions that this was yet another fight between mistfallen and regular soldiers, which means that Midge might be one of the mistfallen. This statement is further supported by the fact that Kelsier is able to talk into him, implicating that Midge has cracks in his spiritweb and thus also indicating that Midge might be an Allomancer. Conclusion 2: While there is no proof, this gives us at least reason to think that Midge is one of the mistfallen. Let me know what you think about this. No matter how, I wanted to share this thought anyway as not everyone seems to be aware of this connection (conclusion 1).
  7. I recently re-read Dresden Files, including all Short Stories, Graphic Novels and Novels in chronological order (if somebody needs a list, let me know) and it got me thinking... Could I do the same with Mistborn? Granted, it's not all discrete stories that can "neatly fit btwn novels X and Y," but it seemed possible. So this last week I set out to do just that. Has anybody else tried to do similar? I started with Eleventh Metal (Obviously), then moved on to Mistborn: The Final Empire (TFE) until Kelsier dies. I then attempted to "integrate" the chapters of Mistborn Secret History (MSH) where they take place while reading the rest of the first trilogy. Below is my attempt at codifying at which point in the trilogy I read each chapter/section of MSH. Though, in many spots the MSH chapters would need to be parsed out into scenes to be truly integrated. Thoughts, Ideas, Concerns? PS: Now starting Allow of Law for the remainder of my most-recent Mistborn read through
  8. In Secret History, and alluded to in Era 2, we find that Kelsier held preservation between the death of Leras and the ascension of Vin. He was able to do so because of IRE magical equipment, but he was not able to fully hold it like a living person could have, and so he was much more limited than Vin, just barely able to delay Ruin no matter what he did, while Vin was able, at the cost of her own life, to kill Ati and leave both Preservation and Ruin unheld. Was Kelsier so limited because he no longer a regular living being, but a cognitive shadow, or because he was not grounded in the Physical realm before taking up the shard? Like, if Kelsier had taken up preservation AFTER getting grounded in the physical realm again, could he have fully held it? The Heralds are also incarnate cognitive shadows who were once living humans, but until Oathbringer, every time they died, they reincarnated. When incarnate, could the heralds have taken up a shard fully, or would they have been limited like Kelsier was?
  9. I don't know if people have already talked about this, but I'm gonna talk anyway. I was re-reading Secret History, when I read something strange. I was at the part when Kelsier is spying on the Ire, and he describes one of the leaders as the following: "Wizened, dried up, the woman had puckered lips, a bald scalp, and strange silvery-dark skin. She glowed faintly..." I don't know about you, but that sounds like an Elantrian. I don't know if Secret History is before or after the restoration of Elantris, but still. Later, Kelsier has a vision, "As she said the word, this time Kelsier got a sense of it's meaning in the language of the green plants. It meant "Age," and he had a sudden impression of a strange symbol made from four dots and some lines that curved, like ripples in a river." That sounds like an Aon to me, but what do you guys think?
  10. So, in my re-reading of Arcanum Unbounded I came to one of my favourite shorts, Mistborn: Secret History. At the portion where Kelsier meets with Khriss and Nazh I couldn't help but notice something Nazh said that I hadn't picked up on before. This caught me and I started thinking, is it possible for one to ritualistically become a shade using whatever magic may be present on Threnody? Generally shades come about due to some weirdness in Threnody's investiture (maybe cos of large chunks of Ambition being ripped off in this system) but if one were to purposely create a shade, would it be a more powerful kind or simply like all other shades. One possibility that came to mind could be that this is how the one-time mentioned Deepest Ones come to be. What do you all think? Is there some other info floating around out there about Threnodite shades and The Deepest Ones, could someone like Kelsier be analogous to The Deepest Ones? This is my first theory so apologies if this has been spoken about before, I look forward to hearing all your opinions on the subject, Threnody is super mysterious and so much fun to think about.
  11. So, I only recently read Mistborn: Secret History. I found it very interesting, but a major discrepancy came up. In the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial, Kelsier was able to walk around on the parts that should have been cognitive "ocean" as if it were land, whereas Shallan nearly drowned while in an equivalent place. Also, the "spren(for lack of a better term)" in Scadrian Shadesmar were semi-solid smoke versions of what they looked like in the physical realm, whereas on Roshar they manifest as spheres. Basically, why is the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial so different from the Cognitive Realm on Roshar?
  12. So I just finished listening to the first era of Mistborn last week, and I’m a little confused about something, namely what exactly did Preservation do to keep Ruin ‘imprisoned’ for so long? Because the way it’s described in Secret History makes it seem like he ‘physically’ locked Ruin away in the Well (at least that’s how Kelsier perceives it). But when Kelsier says that to Fuzz he basically calls him an ignorant fool for saying something so silly. So what exactly did Fuzz do? Was it just that he essentially ‘enveloped’ Ruin with his own power such that Ruin wasn’t really able to affect anything because Preservation’s own power would counter it? If so then how did the Well figure into it? Clearly the Well was only a fraction of Preservation’s total power. Even after listening to Secret History a second time I’m still confused about this. Note: I understand the Atium part.
  13. Ever had one of those thoughts that made you think I am the only person in the whole world who could have thought this, and disregarding everything else - this makes me special (in an endearing way I'm sure) So, Theory Magic Time.. (TMT) Is Preservation's / Leras's plan concluded? To expand: was Fuzz's "brilliant" plan only to deal with Ruin / Ati and create Harmony or is his "plan" still happening and potentially have greater Cosmere implications than has been insinuated.? I know I know, its heavily implied that this master plan was to deal with events in Mistborn Era 1, but!! It is Mr Sanderson.. Anyone else feel a curve ball here? Guys, I'm afraid i shall need some input here as I've only got my swelled head to put me in his place.. !~ HIF ~!
  14. - Words of Radiance, Location 1272, Kindle Is this the same fortress that the Ire are set up in? It doesn't match Kelsier's description of the fortress, but then again it is existing mostly in the Cognitive realm, not the Physical one, in Secret History. But Kelsier states that he can tell the bricks came from somewhere else... If it is the same Fortress, it did didn't originate on Roshar, though. The plants on Roshar are more than just "green," they're hard and crusty and mobile. And still... this is the second fortress in the middle of a giant body of water that we've come across. And what happened to the fortress on Roshar if it is no longer there in Dalinar's time? I think the fortress might represent a way to travel between worlds that doesn't involve Shardpools. Afterall, I don't think the Ire got to Scadrial via either of the pools there. And if the fortress is an alternative means of transportation (or is located on one), it would explain why the 17th Shard is looking for Hoid in the Purelake. --- So my theory is this... the fortress originated on Sel and it is Elantrian architecture. It was built in the middle of a lake or ocean (possibly Lake Alonoe) and the Ire somehow uses it to travel between Shardworlds while they search for a Shard to bring back to Sel. They came to Scadrial first to try to capture Preservation after Leras was killed. They set the fortress down in a giant ocean. The water helps the bricks of the fortress hold on to their "identity" in the cognitive realm. After the Ire failed to capture Preservation, they moved to Roshar to try to capture Honor after Tanavast was killed. Unfortunately, Honor was splintered by Odium in the Desolation despite the Ire trying to stop that from happening (Dalinar's vision). Having failed a second time to capture a Shard, the fortress is then moved to another yet-unknown planet. This explains why the fortress is now gone in modern Roshar. ...OK how crazy am I?
  15. In Chapter 1 of part 2 of Secret History, when Hoid meets Kelsier, the following happens: He reached down to the corpse he was using as a boat, then removed something from his pocket. Something that glowed, though Kelsier couldn’t tell if it was something naturally radiant, or just something made of metal. The glow faded as the Drifter administered it to his vessel, then—covering the motion with a cough, as if to hide from Kelsier what he was doing—furtively applied some of the glow to his oar. When he placed the oar back into the mists, it sent the boat scooting closer to the Well. Sanderson, Brandon. Mistborn: Secret History (Kindle Locations 455-459). Dragonsteel Entertainment, LLC. Kindle Edition. What magic system is he using here?
  16. Tried uploading this a while back but it still reads as "pending" on my end. Weird. This scene made me cry, so I had to draw it. <3

    © Characters belong to Brandon Sanderson. Art is unofficial and belongs to Natalie Rodgers.

  17. If dalinar does ascend to a new shard Unity from the remains of honor, I want it to be an incomplete ascension. Kelsier's ascension was incomplete because he didn't have a physical body. What if dalinar can ascend physically and spiritually but not cognitively, because all that investiture became the new spren. So he doesn't get the ingrained understanding of the universe that comes with a shard, but he also gets to keep his personality. he can't creat new spren or new orders of radiants, but he can super charge the radiant that already exist. His awareness can permeate all of roshar but he can't mentally interact with it. Or something to this effect. I want this to happen because we already have an ascension from a main character, another one played straight would be boring.
  18. In Secret History we see that Kelsier could not connected to Preservation without aid. And when he did so he was still unable to wield it well. I assume that over time his mind would move more in line with Preservation and be more capable with its power. So with that in mind, how did Ati connect to the Ruin Shard to begin with. Hoid said that he was a kind and generous person (this doesn't sound like a person who was attuned to ruin). did he have help to Connect to its power. And if so did he have trouble controlling it until he was changed by the shard's intent.
  19. After rereading Secret History and starting the standalone Edgedancer, I'm wondering, if Kelsier happened to be able to worldhop to Roshar, would Lift be able to see him? Kel mentioned that Spook is crazy enough to be able to partially see into the Cognitive Realm and as such is able to see him. Wyndle also mentioned that Lift must be partially in the Cognitive Realm, else she wouldn't be able to use him for climbing. So would Lift be able to interact with Kel in the Cognitive Realm, since she herself appears to be partially in it?
  20. How far back in the writing process do people think Brandon planned on bringing Kelsier back to life? I have mixed feelings about the topic, and hope that it wasn't recently. Part of what I loved about the Final Empire, was that Brandon was willing to kill off the person that the story was about. I initially felt cheated that he would bring Kelsier back. Ultimately, I think it works because of how it was done in Secret History. I also trust that Brandon has some really cool stuff planned with the character. I just felt kind of miffed initially.
  21. In secret history right before preservation dies he tells kelsier that he can't take the power he doesn't have an infinity mind. (I don't have the quote so that about as goo as I can do) That was after kel had jumped into the well so his soul had expanded. But not his mind? so what is this infinity mind and how do I get one. Clearly the shards have one or at least eventually got one after having there shard for so long. Does a coper mind ferochemist have one. What would happen to some one in the physical realm with an infinity mind does it let them focus on everything or just remember. Could you locate some one with an infinity mind or even better does it let you world hop?
  22. Are the "plants and animals" in the Cognitive Realm here spren? Just basing this on the WoB that confirmed that there are spren on the CR on Scadrial. Maybe I'm blind, but I couldn't find any threads talking about these plants and animals.
  23. Discuss the novella, Mistborn: Secret History here. It is strongly recommended that you not only have read the original trilogy, but also Bands of Mourning before reading this. You should just close this thread and forum if you haven't. For the announcement, see here Go ahead, I'll wait. For the rest of you, this is your place. This topic will open 12:01am Mountain time, January 26th. It will remain locked until then. When you are able to reply to this thread, that means you post spoilers in this forum, so you can make other topics at that point, too. Please review the Bands/Secret History spoiler policies too!
  24. 1 Why would Kelsier store (and as a consequence, lose) his memory of meeting the southern scadrians? 2 how did Hoid (someone Kelsier dislikes) get hold of it?
  25. So, I was rereading Words of Radiance the other day (I gotta find a better intro seriously) and I was thinking about the fabrial which Darkness/Nin/Nalan uses to revive Szeth. At the time Words of Radiance came out, I just kinda accepted it as a thing that apparently happened in the cosmere but I didn't know how. There's a lot of that in the Cosmere. Then Secret History came out, giving us a behind-the-scenes look at death in the cosmere, people's cognitive shadows briefly hesitating in the cognitive realm before moving on to the true afterlife in the series (the Tranquiline Halls or whatever you want to call it). People with a significant amount of Investiture can stay a bit longer, but will eventually get pulled in. Unless you're a Shard, of course. Szeth isn't, which is why I figure Nin's fabrial works via pulling someone's cognitive shadow back in their body before they can move on. It explains Nin's comment about "seconds later, and it would have been too late." Szeth was about to move on, but Nin decided he wasn't done yet. Always assuming my assumptions are correct, this raises two lines of thought in my mind. Firstly, I assume something similar happens for Kelsier. I am very curious just how similar. We know he's spiked now, and we know Hemalurgic spikes can transfer power from other magic systems. I mean, it's always possible that two distinct magic systems happen to share an ability, but I'll believe that when I see it. And yes, fabrials are as much technology as they are magic in the traditional sense, but they seem to imitate other magics as often as not (see Oathgates and the bonding gem in a Deadblade). Time will tell on that one. Second, just how far can this ability stretch? The only known limitation is that Nin needed Szeth's body for the fabrial to do anything. It puts a stopper on some of the more outrageous possiblities (i.e. resurrecting Tanavast or bringing a spren fully into the Physical realm), but Kelsier suggests that rule may not be hard and fast. His body was eaten by a kandra, yet here he is. Maybe it isn't his original body he's in now, but that just raises more questions. I don't know what to make of this many possibilities, but lemme know if you guys do.