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  1. I was originally going to post this on the Mistborn thread but I think it will be easier to discuss here. I think Sanderson has a problem with the Savants concept. With this I don't mean that I don't like this concept (it's one of my favorites, honestly), but rather that Sanderson himself doesn't feel sure where to put the pros and cons of being a Savant. From what he has hinted at in different WoBs, what he is looking for to be a Sevant are situations like Spook's or Kaza's. People who have used their power so much that they have greater access to it, but are negatively affected to the point of causing death. [ref1] Then the problem arises when you have Savants that seem to not comply with this rule, as would be the case with Wax (although this has already been decanonized [look ref 1]) or most of the Seekers [ref2] So what can be proposed in this regard? (of course it is just a proposal since everything falls into the hands of Sanderson and his team) Well, to continue with the spirit of the Savantism of the epigrafh 16 of The Hero of Ages, where there are more pronounced effects than others, but that these effects have more according to the era in which the character lives. Example [allomancy, physical quadrant, external metal]: A Savant Coinshot or Lurcher could be able to create the shields that we have seen that Wax can make (This way we preserve the fact that Wax is a Savant but it will no longer be from resonance but from a single skill), that would be the advantage. Now the disadvantage would be that his body has been "allomantically charged." What does this mean? Well, although it has increased its output power and precision (consciously), unconsciously and while it is not burning metals, there is still a repellent effect (in the case of the Coinshot) that would continue to affect nearby metals, as if it were a kind of "drain". This would not affect the daily life of the allomancer, but already in Era 3 this would be a problem since they would be "magnets with legs" and would affect the electronics near them. You can even extend that to the fact that in Era 4 they cannot board ships that are not specially equipped for them, given the risk it would entail. And even so, cases like Spook's may continue to exist, where the advantage itself ends up being counterproductive and vice versa. Example [allomancy, enhancement quadrant, internal metal]: Both gnats as far as I'm concerned have a lot of potential when becoming savants, not only in terms of their powers, but also the stories that can be written with them. For example, it is already known that an allomantic aluminum sevant can be exempt from many of the damages caused by large amounts of investiture [ref3, ref4] and even speculating a little, they could be invisible to the sight of a Shard when burning aluminum. (like Renarin), But they could also be exempt from the benefits of the investiture since having such a pristine soul would not be able to bond to a Spren or receive Breaths. As for duralumin, a savant of that metal could extend the duration of the burst of power (let's take the arbitrary limit of 16 heartbeats) but when it is not burning the metal its condition would be very similar to that of a Drab, but as an advantage of That since his soul is so easily malleable, it would be easy for him to access certain types of invested arts. Note: In fact I have the idea of a fanfic in which one arrives in Roshar for X situations, and is undehipmently stunned in a situation, more or less comedy, since he gave him to burn a duralumin being there and ended up attracting and linking to the nine types of radiant Sprens and have to deal with their disparate personalities. Anyway, what do you think of the subject and what would you do if you are in your hands to address it?
  2. We have an old WoB stating that you cannot steal Savantism from someone via Hemalurgy (WoB). However, we have a far newer WoB that states if Mraize were to steal part of Hoid's Spiritweb via Hemalurgy that it would have altered effects (WoB). Do you think this means that while you may not be able to transfer Savantism itself, that the powers or attributes taken from a Savant would be altered in some way? Perhaps you could get a slightly greater benefit from an A-pewter Savant's Allomancy, just not to the same extent as the Savant themselves. Or perhaps if you stole strength via Hemalurgic iron it would be weaker in that Savant due to their Spiritweb's altered state.
  3. I recently had a particular part of a WoB pointed out to me by @therunner; Before, I took this to mean that the reason Savants are so much more efficient with their Investiture because the warping of their Spiritwebs brought them closer to the SR, but now I think diferently; I believe the reason why Savants are more efficient with and have more control over their powers is because they have greater Connection to the Shard in question. The negative side-effects of their Savantism may not be necessary to get that extra power- perhaps only the Connection matters and Savantism is only one rout to obtaining it. This makes a lot more sense to me now, as we can actually see Connection working like this with other magic systems. Awakening requires less Breath to Awaken something with the more Breaths in total the Awakener possesses. Additionally, the Awakener gains a greater inherent knowledge of how to use their powers, much like how Allomantic Savants have a greater ability to control their powers. Radiants require less and less Stormlight to fuel their Surgebinding the stronger their Bond- which is mostly just an extra strong Connection to a Spren- grows. This would also help explain why Kaladin's embodiment of Honor's ideals made him stronger and therefore more resistant to Urithiru's corrupted suppression field- he not only had his Spren's natural Connection to the magic system, but he also had quite a few other more mundane Connections that drew him closer and granted him slightly more power as a result (WoB). The uses of artificially increasing Connection (such as through F-duralumin) could be interesting to see interact with different Invested systems; A Connector Ferring could potentially Awaken with fewer Breaths or learn more complex Commands, almost as if they possessed a higher Heightening. They could also possibly Surgebind more efficiently, though their Spren may not approve. It's also possible that F-duralumin could grant an Allomancer the benefits of Savantism without the downsides. Perhaps Connecting to a Metalmind's Investiture could help a Feruchemist tap it more efficiently, particularly if tapping it at an accelerated rate. In fact, the quote makes me think we'll see this in era 3 of Mistborn; And of course, I think that an aspiring Hemalurgist could gain a more comprehensive knowledge of and use for Hemalurgic Bindpoints, particularly if they can Compound duralumin.
  4. Why don't bronze and copper savants suffer the same consequences of savantism? It never made sense to me when savantism warps the soul in a way that is harmful except for these two metals. I know that it could just be because it's something Brandon decided that, but I'm curious if there's some kind of mechanic or reason I missed.
  5. I was reading Trusk'our's thread on Allomantic Duralumin Savantism (https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/106083-allomantic-duralumin-savantism/) and it got me thinking. Is there a scale of savantism or is there one or more plateaus to the changes caused by the power? Technically, once physiological changes begin to occur, they would be considered a Savant, regardless of how minor or extreme the change was. So, hypothetically you have three people who ate equally sized bits of Lerasium and became Mistborn. All three burn a metric ton of Brass (or other large but reasonably sized amount that could be burned away through normal allomantic usage) over the course of a year, one burning at a normal rate, one constantly flaring, one burning their Brass as fast as they could with Duralumin. What level of savantism would each allomancer obtain? I assume the normal burner would get very proficient at Soothing and overall benefits to the practice, but would get relatively little savantism effects because they aren't stressing the body or Spiritweb (considering Mistborn commonly leave their Copper and Tin running in the night but don't suffer as Spook did, even when they aren't using Pewter). The one flaring would certainly become a savant, their soul warped by the constant stretching. What of the Duralumin user? Would they get end up at the same level of savantism as the one flaring, or would they have more extreme effects of savantism? I would guess the second. Could the one flaring metals continue burning and eventually catch up to the Duralumin user, or would there be specific changes that only could be feasibly accomplished with Duralumin (unless you're TLR and have 1,000 years to burn? Maybe not even then? I'm not sure I see him going the Duralumin route either though)? A reduced rate of Duralumin burning allowing for abnormally high flares might explain TLR's insane Soothing, but we don't see him chugging down Brass constantly either. Breeze's estimate at the Skaa executions was that TLR was Soothing a number two orders of magnitude larger than what he could, probably with a greater Push on their emotions as well. That seems like an insane amount of Brass to be burning during a long, leisurely carriage ride from Kredik Shaw to the fountain square without refilling your metal reserves at some point. Maybe he is stealthily eating Brass, maybe he can choke down a huge amount to fill his stomach, but it seems rather inconvenient for TLR to constantly put up with. Thoughts?
  6. I'm pretty sure I've done a thread before on using Forgery to remove Savantism. However, what if someone tried to use Forgery to grant Savantism? Let's have a fun little story to go with this idea; There is a Tineye that works for the Ghostbloods named Jake. Jake, somewhat naturally, doesn't want to permanently suffer the ill effects of Savantism, but knows that with it's power he could accomplish a lot more for his organization. Shai is his friend and creates a Soulstamp for Jake to turn him temporarily into a Savant so that he can get the benefits of it when he needs it and so that he can remove the downsides when he is done with using it. Does this sound like a plausible thing to do?
  7. Okay, so this will be a silly deep dive on all stuff savantism. I will be going through all 16 metals, listing the advantages, disadvantages, and ease of savantism. Feel free to add on to this list, as I am certain that I do not know all there is to know about savantism. I just want to get folks thinking. Obviously each comes with a universal advantage and disadvantage, so I’ll get those out of the way. Of course it will be addictive, so you will feel weird when not burning it in some quantity. Additionally, you will be getting a lot more band for your buck in terms of efficiency using the metal. with that out of the way, let’s get started! Iron Advantages: Much greater control over your pulls, with potential to pull things heavier than you or identify what metal you are pulling. Perhaps being able to manipulate invested metals in some capacity? Certainly an increase in pulling range (how far away you can sense the metal). Disadvantages: Honestly, past a reliance on that extra sense, I wouldn’t really know. Ease of Acquisition: This is fairly easy to get, but you probably won’t be getting it accidentally. There’s a few times where you would want to constantly burn iron, but the cost is rarely worth it for most. Steel In terms of general effect, everything will likely be the same for steel as it will be for iron. Increased adeptness, power, and range, with it being a rare occurrence to naturally manifest. If you folks think there would be a difference, let me know! Tin We saw the advantages and disadvantages pretty clearly with Spook. Quite powerful, with some major disadvantages. Probably wouldn’t recommend. Pewter This was touched on slightly on the books, but I’ll give a brief refresher. You get real strong, but your immunity to pain can lead you to not feel pain, making you die from wounds that you didn’t know existed. It’s not an advised one, but it is unfortunately quite easy to get. Strength is one hell of a drug. Zinc Advantages: Standard rioting of extra people, likely with better extremes (rioting very subtly and outrageously noticeably). Can’t think of much else, but it sure would be interesting to see someone that constantly manipulates emotions Disadvantages: This would likely have to do with emotions, so either you become very picky about other’s emotions, and extraordinary manipulative, or you would be lacking in your own emotional capacity. It would certainly be quite the experience. Ease of Acquisition: I would think this would be relatively easy to get, as rioting is quite a useful trait. Brass I think soothing would have very similar effects to that of rioting when savanthood is achieved, with maybe minute differences. Let me know what you all think! Copper Advantages: This is quite subtle, with likely an expanded field of use, as well as increased difficulty to pierce. I’m sure that if you tried, you could make your coppercloud larger or smaller. I don’t know how you would test for that, though. Disadvantages: Apparently, savantism is very subtle, and the disadvantages are slight. Ease of Acquisition: This is quite common, and I would even say that this is probably the easiest metal to become a savant in. Bronze Advantages: With savanthood for bronze, the advantages are useful, but slight. Increased range, increased strength. That’s pretty much it. You would probably be able to detect other non-allomantic forms of active investiture a bit easier, but even a non-savant can do that. Disadvantages: Again, very minimal disadvantages. Ease of Acquisition: This is another of the really easy metals to achieve savanthood in. Easy to acquire the metal, has a long burn time, and has a lot of passive utility. Aluminum Advantages: Apparently, you can heal your spiritual self this way. Past that, I don’t know. Disadvantages: You are probably now broke. Ease of Acquisition: This one is near impossible. The metal is expensive, useless to burn, and wipes your reserves as soon as you burn it. Duralumin Advantages: Would there…be any advantages? Maybe burning it more efficiently? Disadvantages: You have wasted a lot more time and money than you probably should have. Ease of Acquisition: Not very easy. Theoretically possible, but why? What’s the value in doing so? Gold Advantages: I’m sure there’s some advantages. Unfortunately, we know sparingly little about A-gold. You would probably be keenly aware of your past, as well as the consequences of your decisions. It would be really weird, though. Disadvantages: You would probably be heavily morphed by this. I’m not sure what exactly, but it would be quite the experience. You would be quite detached from the present, and likely warped in the past. Ease of Acquisition: Gold is presumably still rare, if not seen as the currency that we on Earth have decided it would be. You could theoretically become a gold savant, but the circumstances that would allow that would be very, very odd. Electrum Advantages: This could actually be quite useful. You would be very, very hard to kill, and you would have a lot of potential. The electrum shadows would likely extend further than normal, but I don’t really know how far you could stretch it. Disadvantages: This would likely be quite warping as well. Constantly knowing what you are about to do will morph you, and instead of dwelling in the past, you would likely dwell too much in the future. Maybe you would have quite a bit of indecision. I don’t know, but it would certainly be interesting. Ease of Acquisition: Given how uncommon the metal is, this would be quite hard, but very doable. Cadmium Advantages: Manipulate bubble size, speed, and allow it to anchor to oneself. Pretty nice stuff. Disadvantages: This is a tad less clear, but my guess is that due to massive time dilation, they would feel quite disconnected from others. Ease of Acquisition: This one is very hard, but not impossible. It would require quite a lot of continuous punting, which would be both expensive and a bit boring. Bendalloy Pretty much the same as cadmium. I’m sure there’s a difference, but it would be slight. Chromium Advantages: I don’t really know about this one, but perhaps it would allow leeching at range? It’s a smidge unclear. Disadvantages: I also don’t know about this. Any idea what would work? Ease of Acquisition: Savanthood seems quite possible, just not particularly likely to encounter. A middle of the road metal on ease of acquisition. Nicrosil This seems to be the same as Chromium in terms of pretty much everything. And that’s what I have so far! If there’s stuff you think should be added, please let me know! There are a whole bunch of places that I’m not sure of, or even have no clue about.
  8. In a hypothetical (and somewhat ridiculous) scenario, let's say that a time-traveling Set scientist stole Spook's ability to burn tin, but left him alive and let him keep his Hemalurgically granted pewter. Spook then flairs his pewter nearly all the time to compensate for his loss of tin, just as he had done with his natural power. The question I have is, would his Spiritweb shift to accommodate the new power and overwrite (remove and replace) his other form of Savantism, meaning he would suffer from pewter Savantism, but not tin Savantism?
  9. Gold compounders can become savants, which does allow them to heal from basically anything and they even lose the psychological cost of harm as well, since they can't feel pain anymore. Allomantic pewter savants also can lose the feelings of pain, but they can still die from extreme exhaustion or serious injuries, and they can't feel pain to warn them of those dangers anymore. My question is then, can they tap pain from an Unsealed Tinmind so that they can be warned of things that could kill them if not treated?
  10. is savantism reversible if you slowly wean yourself off the metal? it seems possible.
  11. Since Savantism leads to a person getting pulled closer to the Spiritual realm, and we know that Hemalurgically stealing from an Elantrian is more efficient than stealing from other Invested individuals because they are closer to the Spiritual realm, would Hemalurgically stealing from a Savant be more efficient than stealing from a normal Invested individual?
  12. I recall a particular WOB (Which I can't bloody find on the Arcanum) that compared Savantism to the Nahel Bond and called Savantism 'Uncontrolled'. So I'm wondering if it were plausible that there would be a way to 'Control' Allomantic Savantism, gaining more of the benefits with less of the extreme downsides. Like controlling the extreme tin-savantism so that your tin-senses would be greatly enhanced while leaving your regular the same? Basically what I'm asking is would it be possible to cheat Savantism.
  13. If you hemelurgically steal tin so you can burn it and you flare it so much you become a savant like spook, and someone steals the spike back or you take it out, do you keep the enhanced senses? I think yes, but I'm very curious what ya'll think.
  14. In The Emperor's Soul, Shai mentions that a Soulstamp placed on the emperor enough may lead to a permanent taking of the stamp. And that got me wondering; since using a form of Investiture constantly used will eventually cause savantism to occur in the practitioner, would someone who stamped themselves and renewed the stamp before it ran out for a long enough period of time become a savant, causing the stamp to take permanently, or really, would the effects of the stamp stay even after the stamp itself dissolved?
  15. I was re-reading Mistborn when I noticed that Clubs is often forgotten by the other characters, and it made me begin to wonder: were Club's powers helping hide him from the other's attention? It's been confirmed that Allomantic copper can hide you from an Awakener's Lifesense, which is an ability that all people in the Cosmere have, with the exception of Drabs. Could an Allomantic copper savant be harder for people to notice because they are hidden from people's natural Lifesense?
  16. I've been wondering about what a A-Chromium savant could do and have a few ideas. It'd probably make sense for a Leecher to be able to use Chromium as a defensive technique if someone was trying to force investiture into them, such as Lashing, Soulcasting or blocking Lightwoven lasers. That might come up when we get to space age and have laser fabrials. Crackpot idea for A-Chromium, we know it seems to only work on kinetic Investiture (though maybe a Savant could do something with passive/static), but it looks like Chromium allows a redirection/release of power, probably into the SR. I think it would be cool if a savant could actually redirect Investiture, instead of just burning it off. Like... Hoid somehow modifying Shallan's storytelling Lightweaving. Tweaking a Soulcasting to change whatever product the Radiant was hoping to make, changing the intended vector of a Lashing, or adjusting the Commands of an Awakened object such as a doll. Thoughts?
  17. So, when a person becomes a Savant, their spiritweb is suffused with investiture. If their spiritweb is actually having investiture added to it, then will that investiture continue to build up over time? Would someone like the Lord Ruler have a much larger amount of power added to them than someone like Spook due to adding investiture to their spiritweb over a significantly longer period of time?
  18. Allomantic duralumin gives a massive burst of power to a Mistborn burning it along with another metal as it allows your to use up a metal reserve instantly. However, I don't think that it's actually instant, just very, very fast. If someone could have a large enough metal store, or burn their duralumin at a slower pace, then they might be able to use another power very quickly, but not in a single burst, more as a very highly flared power. I think that savantism with this particular power may actually allow this, as savantism allows for significantly greater control over the power's usage. In fact, it may be that the reason The Lord Ruler was able to sooth so powerfully was because he used Allomantic duralumin, but in a very controlled way allowed by savantism. He was also very powerful innately though, so this may not be the case. Even so, I think my idea still has merit.
  19. When an allomancer (or Feruchemical compounder) uses their powers enough, they can accidentally suffuse their spiritweb with investiture, which can lead to changes in the physical realm. However, Kandra are able to manipulate their physical aspect, as well as having mutable spiritwebs. If a Kandra were to become a savant, would they be able to easily scrub away the negative changes? Or would the changes made to their spiritweb instead damage their ability to change themselves and assume different forms?
  20. Here's a thought, Tin compounders, could they simultaneously burn tin while storing, say hearing, to minimise the effects of loud noises? Could they become a tin savant with little or no negative effects? Could they become a savant without the constant burning by burning their metalminds?
  21. So Ive been into the cosmere for a while and have been searching the forums for this but I can't find any answers. Savantism is the end result of overflaring metals too often and damaging the spiritweb as a result yes? Questions are: How exactly does it damage the spiritweb? How does savantism itself occur in relation to preservations power and the metals as a conduit when burning? How long does it take to become a savant? Those are a few I thought up. New here, hope this piques someone's interest
  22. Also would mistborn suffer from savanthood if they flared tin like spook ? Would tlr also suffer from negative side effects of general allomantic savanthood and compounding savanthood ??
  23. What would happen to a mistborn if they were a savant in all the metals? We know that savantism can become dangerous, but would being a savant in all metals weirdly balance eachother out? In a similar way to how Spook's pewter negated his tin savantism? Or would the effects on ones spiritual DNA be too much and the mistborn suffers woth big issues both physicslly and spiritually? Are there any WoBs on this? Do we know more? I appreciate any further input.
  24. So what are the effects of savantism for all the metals? AFAIK we know about Tin (as seen by Spook) and we know that pewter can be very dangerous but we don't really know the effects. There's a WoB that states bronze savants can pierce copper clouds, so presumably copper savants can create more powerful copper clouds. So what do we think the effects of savantism in the other metals would be?
  25. Time for a speculation thread! Ignore for a moment the financial implications of having that much atium on hand. Let's imagine that there was someone, either a Mistborn or a Seer, who had burned enough atium to warp their spiritual aspect and become a savant. What sorts of things could they do with atium that normal burners could not? I imagine they'd be able to extend the length of the atium shadows they saw far into the future. But presumably prolonged exposure to that much concentrated power of a Shard might have additional unexpected effects. And I'm almost positive that one drawback of atium savantism would be an increased suceptibility to Ruin or another Shard's influence. Are godmetal savants even possible?
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