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Found 71 results

  1. How did ruin and preservation create Scadrial , we know the planet was not already there and we know they created all of the life there , my question is how did they do that ? Did they simply use space dust that was already present or did they convert their investiture directly into matter ??? I'm just confused
  2. From the album Mistborn Doodles

    The lord of decay, in all his glory. My favorite Shard, by far. I always imagined his hair as actual fire, so naturally I had to paint it!
  3. So I keep hearing people say Kelsier is a cognitive shadow. I am mildly familiar with this term; I've heard it in reference to Hoid and Vivenna. But if he isn't totally dead, then what was that conversation with Spook about in HoA? The wiki says that it was Ruin playing as Kelsier, which makes sense because he was so insistent about revenge, but I never actually heard that from a person who's read the books. Can someone give clarity?
  4. Hi guys, I was just thinking about this upon rereading parts of Hero of Ages for a paper I'm writing, but how would Ruin have gotten the atium? Like, was it only his ignorance of where it was that kept it from just taking it into himself once he was freed, and once he found out where it was, was it just Vin's power as Preservation preventing him from doing anything active reflexively that did it? If so, what was the point of the Kolos even attacking for it. The world would have ended anyway, it would just have taken a few months for people to starve, if Vin hadn't killed ruin and Sazed had taken up both powers. Would the Kolos or Kandra under ruin's control taking control of Atium actually have done anything more as long as Vin was preservation? Were the pits protected from Ruin somehow that as long at the atium was in them, Ruin couldn't just like, absorb it into himself? What's going on here?
  5. How long does it take to shatter a shard the way odium does compared to the slow strangulation used by ruin against preservation ? Why is the shatter method perceived as being so quick if honor had time to create the stormfather and rant and rave about the knights radiant destroying the world with their surgebinding.
  6. Question is in the title: If Sazed Was Killed but his shard(s) were not splintered, would they appear as two, Preservation and Ruin, or one, Harmony?
  7. Hi! Just joined because I have a question. I remember reading a line by Ruin about the morality of shards and saying that Preservation would keep the world in stasis so people wouldn’t get hurt. Unfortunately, I can’t find it in my copy of Hero of Ages. I don’t think I’m misremembering because I’ve seen other people make reference to it but to the best of my efforts I can’t find it.
  8. We know that Of course Ruin is Sazed now who isn't hellbent on killing everything or making anybody who he can influence kill stuff as well but again nobody has more spikes than Marsh has in the entire Cosmere. This sounds like a huge implication that he did use hemalurgy or at least utilized already existing spikes for himself. He doesn't seem homicidal and Sazed doesn't count Marsh when he said "the last time he had good conversation was with Kel-(this was around SoS)" when Marsh and Sazed basically has the most direct line communication ever considering the amount of spikes Marsh has. Why not mention Marsh as well ? Even after the fall of TLR and before Ruin was released. Sazed did mention to making an effort to communicate with Marsh since he was alienating the crew. So how sane do you think Marsh actually is ? Cause the spikes has to have an effect on him.
  9. I'm sure this has been pointed out before, but I just came across the fact that the Greek Goddess of Ruin/ Downfall is called Ate (Ati's sister from another mister perhaps ?) Hence this passage from "Julius Caesar" (Mark Antony speaking) - And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge, with Ate by his side, come hot from Hell, shall in these confines with a monarch's voice, cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war... Here's hoping that dog Odium doesn't get hold of Ati's old Shard or we may all have a problem !
  10. Hi I don't know if this has been discussed before, but do you think that the mist are now the excess ruinous intent in era 2? A WoB implies Harmony is doing something with his "spare" Ruin so to speak (new to using the forums so im not sure how to link this WoB). So could the mists now be this excess ruinous investure rather than preservation? The reason I thought this is at end of Alloy of law, Wax burns some of the mists, while wearing the spiked earing. However, in era 1, a spike stops Vin using the mists, which were of preservation. So my question is, was Wax able to use some of this mists as a consequence they are now more of Ruin, which is in line with Wax "being of Ruin", or did he have access just as a consequence of Harmony's attention (implying the mists are still of preservation or just Harmonys combined intents in general). P.s I know there are theories that the spare ruin is related to a potential daughter-product of an ettmetal reaction, but what if this excess is the mists, or that a mix of both ?
  11. I was reading another thread and someone mentioned their theory on Nightblood and Ruin, it got me thinking about how Kelseir was Connected to Ruin in mistborn and I was wondering if Nightblood could also have some significant Connection? Obviously he'd have a very strong Connection to Endowment being made with 1000 breaths but with his command being destroy evil and the way he interprets that being extremely destructive, corrupting and consumeing the investiture itself, I think he'd have a very strong Connection to Ruin as well.
  12. So I just finished listening to the first era of Mistborn last week, and I’m a little confused about something, namely what exactly did Preservation do to keep Ruin ‘imprisoned’ for so long? Because the way it’s described in Secret History makes it seem like he ‘physically’ locked Ruin away in the Well (at least that’s how Kelsier perceives it). But when Kelsier says that to Fuzz he basically calls him an ignorant fool for saying something so silly. So what exactly did Fuzz do? Was it just that he essentially ‘enveloped’ Ruin with his own power such that Ruin wasn’t really able to affect anything because Preservation’s own power would counter it? If so then how did the Well figure into it? Clearly the Well was only a fraction of Preservation’s total power. Even after listening to Secret History a second time I’m still confused about this. Note: I understand the Atium part.
  13. This is obviously purely philosophical, but I was just wondering, if not for her relationship with Honor, would Cultivation have been drawn to Scadrial either instead of or in addition to Preservation? People often say that Preservation and Ruin were both drawn to Scadrial because of their opposing intents, kind of like two poles of a magnet. But strictly speaking Ruin and Preservation are NOT opposites. Ruin is essentially regression and Preservation is essentially stasis. The true opposite of Ruin is actually Cultivation, at least if we assume that her overall intent is growth/progression, which appears to be the case from what little we’ve seen of her. Preservation is effectively smack in between Ruin and Cultivation in terms of intent. And indeed, I would think that if someone were to simultaneously hold the Shards of Ruin and Cultivation, the result very well might effectively be a second more powerful Shard of Preservation, since the net effect of their two intents would cancel each other out. Anyone have any thoughts?
  14. A couple of precursors: I haven't really written much on this website before, so apologies if I don't know how to tag spoilers, do quotes, explain myself intelligently, etc. If someone else has already talked about this, I apologize for stepping on your toes. I'm not always on the site so I don't know what I might have missed. This is kind of two topics, but they tie together in my mind. Apologies in advance if it seems disjointed to you. With that out of the way, I wanted to talk about the similarities between Ruin and Odium, and-- more importantly-- speculate about what those similarities might mean and why they might exist. The idea that started me thinking this was Odium and Ruin's interesting use of the word passion. As most of us know, Odium tries to convince Dalinar that his intent is about more than just hate, but passion as a whole: “They call me Odium,” the old man said. “A good enough name. It does have a certain bite to it. But the word is too limiting to describe me, and you should know that it is not all I represent.” “Which is?” He looked to Dalinar. “Passion, Dalinar Kholin. I am emotion incarnate. I am the soul of the spren and of men. I am lust, joy, hatred, anger, and exultation. I am glory and I am vice. I am the very thing that makes men men. Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 551). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. I noticed as I was rereading the Hero of Ages that Ruin says something similar: “This work I do, it’s about passion, Vin. It’s about dynamic events; it’s about change! That is why you and your Elend are so important to me. People with passion are people who will destroy— Sanderson, Brandon. Mistborn Trilogy (Kindle Locations 30922-30923). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Note especially the way the word is written in both cases: italicized. Outside the Alcatraz series, Brandon rarely uses italics for emphasis. The fact that both these characters would talk about their passion in this italicized way really stuck out to me. I thought that I might just be overthinking a small coincidence, but then I came across this WoB: Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was it relevant that Ruin mentioned Passion to Vin? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. source So now that I knew it was an important connection, I started to look into other ways that Ruin and Odium are similar other than just the way they talk about their intent. Some other possibilities that I came with: They are both vessels. This is obvious, but easy to overlook. Maybe all vessels just feel this way about their intent. Both had plans to cause cosmere wide destruction. Odium, with his "hit list" of other vessels, and Ruin, because his intent would have driven him to continue to destroy other planets after Scadrial was no more. They have both spent time being trapped (Ruin in the prison Preservation created, Odium trapped by the Oathpact) Both tried to forge "champions" that ended up working against them. Brandon says in the annotations to the Hero of Ages that for some unknown reason Preservation had chosen Vin from a young age, and that ruin worked to corrupt Vin after Preervation chose her (Annotation Chapter 79). Similarly, Honor for unknown reasons gave visions to the Kholins (starting with Gavilar, I know). All the while, Odium was hard at work trying to corrupt Dalinar and turn him into his champion. Interestingly enough, both of these individuals ascended and used their power to fight against the force that had tried to turn them. Probably lots of other important/relevant connections I'm too tired to think of at the moment. Since I was curious about the first bullet above-- that maybe all shards just act this way-- I decided to ask Brandon the following questions last Saturday: Valhalla [PENDING REVIEW] Ruin and Odium, they both talked about their passion, and it was italicized both times. Would any other Shards talk about passion in that same italicized way? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes they would. Valhalla [PENDING REVIEW] Would any of them not talk about it that way? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes they would. Excellent, good questions. source This made it very clear that the passion connection is not an inherent thing that all vessels share, nor is it something that is unique to Ruin and Odium. So, what do all the similarities between Ruin and Odium actually mean? And how does passion play into it? I'd love to hear your theories, because frankly none of the ideas I have come up with seem to add up, but I will throw out a few ideas to get the discussion started. Theory #1: They are both being acted upon by an outside force One theory that I developed is that they are both somehow being controlled/manipulated by the same outside force. There are a few problems with this. The first is that vessels like Rayse and Ati both have a lot of raw power and a large amount of knowledge and cosmere awareness, making them difficult to manipulate. The only beings who seem capable of manipulating a vessel would be another vessel. However, its possible that because both Ruin and Odium have been trapped with at least a portion of their full power made temporarily unavailable to them that they have been left in a state in which they would be more suggestible or otherwise duped. This still doesn't explain who would want to do it, how they would accomplish it, and why they would make both Ruin and Odium so focused on their passion. So, yeah, this theory is very much a work in progress. Theory #2: Ruin and Odium were working together So this theory relies on kind of a stretch to the answers to my questions; basically, that you can split all vessels into two groups: those who have passion, and those that don't. The passionate vessels like Ruin, Odium, and apparently others decided to group up to help accomplish their goals, especially those goals that the non-passionates might have attempted to stop. While doing so, they realize that they are more than just one intent, but that they are also a force of Passion in their worlds. They also realize that the names assigned to their intents, like ruin or odium, tend to have negative connotations and so when they interact with humans they tend to bring forth their passion instead. This theory works on a logical level, but it doesn't work on a storytelling level. I doubt Ati and Rayse are just repeating the mantra from their support group for passionate shards. There has to be more to it than that. Theory #3: Insert your theory here I had a couple more ideas, but they all have even bigger holes than the ones I mentioned. This would be easier if we had a third shard that we knew would describe itself as passion, so that we could make more connections. I am interested to hear your thoughts. Why does it matter that both Ruin and Odium talk about passion in italics? What shards have we met that would be passionate? What theories do you have about the connections between these two shards? And finally, does the fact that I stayed up to 2 A.M. on a weekday to write and research this post because I'm so passionate about this particular cosmere puzzle indicate that I, like Ruin and Odium, am a major antagonist intent on causing chaos and destruction throughout the known universe?
  15. Is Reen's voice that Vin hears in hear thoughts during The Final Empire always a projection or Ruin? Or does she imagine it sometimes and it is only manipulated by Ruin at certain points? thanks
  16. Just finished up The Hero of Ages for an unknown number of re-reads. It's no coincidence that Mistborn's second era takes place 300 years after Kelsier destroyed the Pits of Hathsin, right. Not 200 years, or 500 years. We were told it would be 300 years before Atium could be harvested again. Ruin couldn't annihilate Scadrial because he was missing his body/power/Atium. He was incomplete. Powered but not powerful. Vin's body absorbed all the mist from the skies, so Sazed absorbed a full and complete shard. When Sazed absorbed the dark smoke from Ati's body, he only absorbed an impotent shard, a half-shard perhaps, incomplete. Powered, not even close as powerful as Vin's shard. Harmony still needs the power that Ati/Ruin never got. Harmony is currently under attack from Odium? Or some other shard wanting to remove all life from the sphere. (The Set) Perhaps it's Hoid doing his Adonalsium Round-up Tour, kidding. So, I presume that Harmony moved the Hathsin shardpool/perpendicularity to some crazy hidden underground/underwater inaccessible place waiting for the well/pool/hot tub to fill up again. Marsh is likely guarding it. Harmony likely changed the form of the power from happy lil' god candies to another form, perhaps a cozy hot tub that Harmony could dip his toes in. Thus making him complete, at last. Once he is two completely powerful shards he will toss Odium away from his system for good. Until era three and a cast of all new characters. Thoughts?
  17. I'm gonna say from the very beginning is that my take on this is more on that the HoA being a Discord rather than Harmony. Sorry if the title might not fit the post. Can't think of other title atm. Also not sure how the spoiler policy of OB on Cosmere Theory forum works so better be sure than sorry. Should've been a simply prophecy text that is relevant only to Mistborn Trilogy context that i'm not so sure anymore since it could mean extremely interesting narrative direction for the future of Mistborn franchise and Cosmere in general. Also the very obvious capitalization of the word and the hero of ages prophecy being weirdly word by word accurate(like the "on his arms" or the gender neuter thing) and i don't think Ruin changed the text that much. This kind of theorycrafting also inspired me more after reading Oathbringer where if i assume Rayse wasn't lying would mean that he's actually truly the Shard of Passion but people chose to call him Odium. And i don't think Rayse is lying considering that when he let him experience his infinity like other shards have before(Sazed to Wax during era2) and i don't think shards will lie about their intent to the utmost extent(considering that's what they're endorsing/implementing in the first place) as you would assume especially regarding themselves which Dalinar experienced emotions of all ranges. Even supporting that he might actually be a shard of passion or at least a synonym as his general policy for his army/people has been about passion and his minions claiming interest with Moash due to his "strong passion". So far apart from the manipulations of Ruin of the prophecy of the Hero of Ages. It hasn't lied to us and for some reason i doubt this was either shards doing. Another is that from Era2 Sazed has been stating being tied between the conflict of two shards and still insisting on balancing them. Could it be that him trying to please both masters is what causing his inactivity in the first place and the less he is about balancing the better he is at freedom from both shards. Also kinda makes sense with him being a young vessel which might've occured to other shards who fought their nature at the start. That Oathbringer event may imply that our Hero of Ages might not actually be the intent he says or could eventually change into what it was meant to be. Which brings me to these thoughts about Sazed's actual intent as the wielder of Preservation and Ruin (could've already been theorized by others as well and some i read from other post about discord/harmony) which might be more plausible/possible/would you support ? Harmony is Harmony and i'm wearing too much tinfoil hat i should stop. Sazed ascended as Harmony but is slowly being molded/evolved into Discord. Sazed thinks he's Harmony but he's actually Discord from the very beginning Sazed does not actually care if he's Discord but chose to name himself Harmony maybe for some reason The prophecy is averted abit which is why we have Harmony instead of Discord(not all future sight happening accurately ?) Could it be that his name, intent and being finally becoming Discord is just a matter of acceptance just like his role as the Hero of Ages, or about his acceptance of change/death is a natural thing to connect with Ruin. Could it be ? Questions Does it mean that the reason why Sazed is actually more limited than he should be has more to do with him trying insist he's Harmony(the balance between shards) rather than him being actually discord (the differences between the shards) ? If Sazed remains Harmony till the endgame cosmere does that mean he becomes more active or actually just gets worse and becoming more and more inactive ? What about him becoming discord ? Did we actually misunderstand Harmony and overtime he actually gains more freedom rather than being tied ? That Harmony could actually just do just about anything just like how incredibly flexible autonomy and endowment seems to be ? If assuming him becoming Discord is actually right and gives him freedom. Doesn't that make him incredibly dangerous and finally a big player of cosmere ? Since he's more interactive i assume Thoughts ? Supporting statements? Disagreements ? Theories ? Further Elaborations ? Anything resembling to thoughts about the matter ? Anything is welcome !(so excited about this topic after OB events sinking in and plenty of reading former discussion threads about this here or on reddit)
  18. Hi everyone, I was reading through the list of Aons at the back of Elantris, and I realized something: the Aon for “hope” is “Ati.” Ati, as in the man who was the host for Ruin? Who Atium was named for? Unfortnunately, as I was reading through, I could not find anything for Leras in the Aons... Is this just a coincidence? Or is there a connection through this (rather ironic) name? Maybe Ruin and whoever hosted Dominion or Dominion, the two Shards on Sel, had some sort of connection before the Shattering.
  19. In the Bands of Mourning, we hear the legends of the Lord Ruler’s bracers, endowing anyone bearing them with Mistborn and Feruchemist powers. A single pair of bracers. Obviously, we eventually find that the Bands are a real creation of Sovereign-Kelsier, a single, long, tapered piece of metal composed of carefully mixed metals. But I would like to talk about the Lord Ruler’s /actual/ bracers. Not all of them, as he wore many. His atium bracers. The special ones. Those bracers served as both a feruchemical storage and hemalurgic spikes. There are three things I find very interesting about them. First, Brandon had to know that any astute reader would doubt the Sovereign’s identity as the Lord Ruler, given that we know what Bracers he bore, and we know that his special ones, the atium bracers, would be unable to store other feruchemical traits, even given what we learned in the book early on re: F-Aluminum and F-Nicrosil. We know what his bracers were, and we know they don’t match the legends. Second, Vin and Elend sold the Lord Ruler’s atium bracers. Atium bracers that could only have ended up in the hands of Ruin’s inquisitors or burned by some Mistborn (barring somehow a Kandra contract or a Seer getting ahold of them.) And we don’t know what /burning/ a hemalurgic spike does, but that the results of such a thing, of effectively combining with someone else’s spiritual DNA could have crazy results. And these bracers were either repurposed by Ruin or burned by someone, more than likely. Third, we still don’t know what the Lord Ruler stored in those bracers. He had all 16 allomantic and feruchemical powers already, and he could have used either the well of ascension or nicrosil compounding to give himself such strength in allomancy as to need no hemalurgic boost, unless he was perhaps seeking a slight skill boost. Was he seeking the powers similar to a Kandra Blessing? Or something else entirely? in other words, there’s still some more to wonder about. I’ve tried to link this to Marsh’s feruchemical atium spike in the few minutes I’ve taken to write this, but I can’t see how he’d have made use of Rashek’s bracers, without any access to Rashek’s identity. Anyway, that about wraps up my ramblings.
  20. I just finished re-reading Elantris and I have so many questions. I think I need to write Cosmere stuff on my walls like T. Anyway, ATI is an aon? ATI like OUR Ati? Was Ati originally from Sel? Who is Jaddeth really? Is he the person who took up a shard? Is he Ambition? Because Hrathen keeps saying that he rewards the ambitious. Are the Dakhor somehow hemalurgically pierced? Are the bones bonded with adamantium or something? What is Lukel's name aon? The God trapped in the land sounds much like Ruin trapped in the well. Coincidence?
  21. So, I just finished my Mistborn reread and kept my eyes peeled for hints and clues. When Waxillium 'dies', Harmony says that the body will return to Earth(?), mind to the Cosmere but he does not know where souls go. And it has been mentioned that souls and metal are the same. What if souls go to Preservation's well? That souls are the power of preservation? We know that the power slowly gets refilled every thousand years.
  22. I was wondering what happens to atium once it has been burned? As far as I am aware atium is the body of ruin/ati and is physical form of Investiture. I understand that "Investiture works in a similar fashion to energy in that it follows its own laws of thermodynamics and that it is not possible to destroy Investiture; it can only be redistributed." Preservation had the mists snap people to become atium mistings so that they could burn away the atium cache so that ruin couldn't get a hold of it. But, where does that physical Investiture go to (e.g., the cognitive or spiritual realm?) and why can't ruin access it after it has been "redistributed"?
  23. From the album Mistborn

  24. Hey Team! First day on here, but long time follower of everything Sanderson related and have read everything published within the cosmere. For a while now I have been interested in the potential use of Hemalurgy on Roshar. We know inquisitors can have 9-11 spikes (I believe) and Hemalurgy is of Ruin, the only other Shard, apart from Odium that seems that have directly try to kill/splinter another Shard. Given there are 10 surges in surgebinding, and 10 is an important number on Roshar, it might well be that there are 10 voidbinding surges. We also know that Honor was pushing Dalinar towards forcing Odium to chose a champion. So I have a few questions and wanted to know peoples thoughts regarding them, or if any interviews with Brandon have said anything about this - or alternatively if this has been discussed before. Firstly will we see hemalurgy on Roshar, secondly could either a radiant/voidbringer hold all the surges through spikes, thirdly would Odium be able to use hemalurgy to form a direct connection to someone like ruin, and fourthly, if so, could these be viable champions for each side? What do people think about this?
  25. During the Arcanum Unbounded short story The Eleventh Metal, right after the fight between kelsier and shezler, Gemmel walks over and: "Carefully and meticulously selected a fork from the fallen tools and other scattered laboratory remains. He smiled and chuckled to himself. 'Now that is a fork.' He shoved it into his pocket." Earlier gemmel tells kelsier that their goal for the evening was in the basement. While we interpret this via kelsier to mean that the goal was to fight a mistborn for his training. But i think that was just a side benefit for the evening and that gemmel's true goal was to get this fork. We know that shezler is attempting to snap these skaa and manifest more allomantic abilities through beatings and torture. Is it possible that this fork is a makeshift torture implement that is tearing off bits of investiture and gaining charge? I believe there is a WoB or theory talking about how gemmel may have been muttering and conversing with ruin because of some embedded shrapnel or just his madness allowing ruin to communicate with him. If this fork did have hemalurgic properties to it, then it may have been a powerful tool in the hands of an agent of ruin. Perhaps in the next mistborn novels we will encounter someone who gained abilities from the fork of power!! Discuss.