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Found 25 results

  1. Let's talk about the Old Magic. Do you think that the Nightwatcher acts justly in the boons and curses she gives out? As a case study, do I just have a dirty mind, or do you think the man who got numb hands might have asked for something a bit... personal? Something numb hands might help with a bit? (trying not to get R rated.) Maybe the Nightwatcher found his request pathetic and decided to give him his boon in the form of numb hands. And why the heck did Cultivation answer Taravangian's request for capacity to save humankind in a twisted way that led him to become Odium? Doesn't Cultivation want humans to survive? She does not have to maintain any kind of balance in her boons and curses, apparently, so she didn't have to give him a curse as large as his boon was great. And anyway, it doesn't appear that she did give him the capacity, not really, though we can't tell that for sure yet. Thoughts?
  2. Sja-Anat is showing with Glys and now others the ability to modify True Spren which she couldn't in the past. So far, Dalinar and Taravangian were major parts of her plan that she used the Old Magic to cultivate, but Renarin seems to be one of the most important. It seems interesting that Cultivation wouldn't have used the Old Magic to cultivate Renarin's path in some way. Could Sja-Anat have went to the Nightwatcher and been granted a boon/curse by Cultivation herself? Sja-Anats new abilities seem like they could be Cultivation linked, allowing her to help sentient spren change their paths. Also, letting some children die so that others may live seems a Cultivation type approach. If its possible, a long view of Cultivation's plan could mean she helped link BAM to the Parsh and cause the False Desolation leading to everything happening now, but mainly curious if she could be responsible for Sja-Anats boosted abilities.
  3. OK, this isn't a theory per se, more like an observation. The basic idea is this – there seem to be many parallels between Cultivation's magic and the Metallic Arts. I have no idea why or what to do with it, so I'm looking for suggestions Here is what I came up with so far: Artificial creation. The Metallic Arts come from an artificially created planet, Old Magic comes from an artificially created godspren Form on Investiture. Cultivation's gaseous Investiture is explicitly called mist and it's green color seems to match the Shard's symbolism, just like on Scadrial. Unlike Breath or Stormlight, it doesn't seem to be directly usable by regular magic users, which again matches the character of Preservation's mists and Ruin's black smoke The effects of the Scadrian godmetals. Allomantic Lerasium and Hemalurgic Atium allow for very general spiritweb modification, and so does the Old Magic. A person burning atium and duraluminium gets pulled into the Spritual Realm, so the regular atium users seem to exist there at least partially, just like Lift exists partially in the Cognitive Realm. Burning atium allows you to see the future, which is an occasional side effect of visiting the Nightwatcher's Valley Cultivation's boons. We have a confirmation that Dalinar and Taravangian got their boons and curses directly from Cultivation. Lift is also a very likely candidate, based on the “Act of Cultivation” WoB. The boons of these three characters actually share some similarities with the three Metallic Arts, and each character also seems to provide a different look at famous users of said magic from Scadrial: Lift – her boon (using food as a gateway for Investiture) is clearly based on the same principle as Allomancy. She also happens to be a young, very Preservation-minded thief with strange, incomprehensible powers given her by a Shard. Unlike Vin, however, Lift is a skilled healer, not an assassin Taravangian – his cognitive abilities (intelligence and compassion) can be increased/decreased at the cost of the other attribute, which bears some similarity to Feruchemy. Like Sazed, he figures a plan o save the world in a moment (OK, more like a day) of transcendence. He doesn't use knowledge gathered by other people though, he uses people as a resource to get knowledge Dalinar – when his boons wears off, he mentions that his pain seems like “tiny spikes in his soul” and he hears a mysterious voice talking to him, a known side effect of Hemalurgy. He's a Sliver (I think he counts after the ending of Oathbringer?) that tries to keep a hostile Shard imprisoned, but unlike Rashek he didn't end up conquering the world There are also some open questions: The Well of Ascension was used to contain a Shard and dramatically change a planet – something very similar to what the Dawnshards are supposed to do. It was also used to create the mistwraiths (and by extension kandra) and had a great effect on Preservation's sanity. We have the kandra-like Siah Aimians on Roshar and Honor wasn't very coherent in his final days... Are these all connected to each other and to Cultivation somehow? The ettmetal is crucial for developing Scadrian technology. Is Cultivation's magic somehow necessary for creating fabrials? Just like the previous question, it points to Aimia If this cool theory turns out to be true, Cultivation's magic helped to create the Nightblood, which contains Ruin's Investiture – another potential link to Scadrial
  4. First of all I want to apologize for any grammer\spelling mistake I did in that post. english is not my mother tongue and even tho i'm learning english for a lot of time, it's not perfect and there's a good chance I'll use phrases you won't understand and\or grammer mistakes. After I cleard that out of the way, we can move on to the topic. the basic of my theory is that Nohadon was a bondsmith. I know that this is a realy common theory, so i'll try to make the reasons for why I think so short: 1. It make sense that the guy who wrote the book that changed Dalinar to the person he needed to be to become a bondsmith whould be a bondsmith himself. 2.the stormfather thinks that Nohadon was a good man, and I don't think he'll think that about Nohadon if he was not a bondsmith. I mean, the stormfather dosen't like kaladin, and kaladin is bound to a honorspren. 3. Nohadon's personality sounds like he'll fit in as a bondsmith. I also belive that Nohadon's spren was the nightwatcher, because the stormfather was also confused when dalinar talked about Nohadon, and the sibling was asleep et the time. And now for the final steps of my theory. We know that Nohadon was a king during a desolotion, and I think that Nohadon is the tipe of guy that will do whatever it takes to save his people, so he went to the valley and asked the nightwatcher for a way to save his people, and got from the nightwatcher (or from cultivasion) the smae boon and curse Taravangian got, or something similar to it. I have only one reason to think that, but I think that its a preaty good reason: in dalinar's last vision of nohadon, dalinar sais that Nohadon remines him Taravangian, and I don't think brandon'll put this without a good reason. Plus, even before dalinar notices that, It's not very hard to see that Nohadon is a little wierd. Nohadon is also having a godlike day, but instead of creating his own diagram because he understands that It probably won't last to the day it will be needed in the war in our days, he askes the nightwatcher-which is according to my theory Nohadon's spren- to insert a vision of his inside dalinar's minde when he comes to visit her. If that's true, it'll explein why the stormfather didn't knew about dalinar's last vision of nohadon and why it seemed like nohadon actually talket to dalinar in that vision. It also means that theoreticaly ther are more visions we did'nt see yet,and that it's harder to see dalinar's future because of it, which explains why odium, the diagram and even hoid mistake all the time when dalinr involved.
  5. Heralds all have their Honorblades and spendid power, but when they die, they go to Damnation and be tortured. We think they're tortured because it's part of the Oathpact, but could it be that they were tortured before the Oathpact? Say the torturing was the bane for the boon of Honorblades? It's easy to think Honor handpicked the Heralds and gave them swords and power, as the swords are called Honorblades. But what if they're called Honorblades only because Honor made them? It could be forged by Honor and then given to the Heralds by Heralds by Nightwatcher as a boon. Say, they asked for power to fight a demon coming to their world. The Nightwatcher then gave them power and weapons to fight, but also made them tortured after they were killed. Then when Honor and Cultivation wanted to trap Odium to Roshar, they thought of those souls tortured in Damnation, and gave them another chance to be alive and fight again. And the oath for the pact was not that they should be tortured, but that they should fight and win. After some more thoughts, I think it will be very unwise to let your enemy torture your champions. What if he tried to tempt them and convert them to his side? Torturing them is not the best thing to do when you have your enemy's champions, even if you hate them so much. You should try to treat them and talk sense (or betrayal) into them. The torturing should be from the champions' side, and it is very realistic, as champions are so often deserted by the crowd and the crown if they live long enough. Now, if it was Cultivation or Honor torturing the Heralds on Damnation, Damnation may not belong to Odium after all. There was a Tranquilline Hall, a Damnation, and roshar in the star system. The Listeners were the natives of Roshar and was the original worshipper of Honor. Humans were the natives of the Tranquilline Hall and brought Odium over. So Damnation belongs to Cultivation from the beginning! Cultivation may have been a mad scientist and say caused some greenhouse effect like disasters to happen and made her world Damnation. People hated her so much and Odium was attracted by the hatred into the star system. He got onto the only planet without a shard and later went with the humans there to Roshar, which had its own climate problems (the high storms).
  6. There is more to Cultivation's magic than just Surgebinding or Old Magic. If you think about it, it does make sense that there would be more. Half of the Nahel Bond spren are theorised to be more aligned towards Cultivation but the overall system of Surgebinding is more of Honor. The Nightwatcher too is one spren, there should be more than just her boons and banes. We do know that something like Cultivationlight exists, Cultivation's Investiture in gaseous form: Some people assume that Fabrials are Cultivation's magic, due to some WoBs like: Which makes it seem like there are one for each of the Shards. But I don't think so, after all aren't Fabrials just an outgrowth of the Surges? They are the same forces, being tapped into via artificial rather than the more organic means of spren bonding that we occurring on Roshar including the Parshendi/Singer/Listener (what would be the correct way to refer to them now?) Forms of Power, as well as the Nahel Bond itself. We do also have this WoB though: And that made me wonder, what if, in regards to Cultivation's magic, Fabrials are, once again, "a part of it" Let's observe the Old Magic then, which is confirmed to come from Cultivation for clues Now that's interesting... There is also the magic from Ashyn which is related: Okay, then what do they all have in common? I think this: This has been theorized before, of course, notably here: And it's only fitting, I suppose, that the Roshar and Scadrial comparisons come full circle here. Much like Feruchemy, Surgebinding is of two Shards but leans towards one, magitech! Fabrials and medallions (when will we get a canon name for this?) and this unnamed magic and Hemalurgy. I'm proposing that Cultivation's magic might be a... metamagic like Hemalurgy. That it can be used to modify things via the metaphysical realms but in a more broader sense than Hemalurgy. I suspect that we've already seen an example of this happening: Vyre's knife. A knife with a sapphire on the pommel that glowed when used against the Herald Jezrien. It shouldn't be impossible for Odium's forces to use it, after all: We do see situations close to what's described above in multiple Cosmere books. The Fused have access to the Surges, Allomancy being stolen via Hemalurgy.
  7. If this has been posted before, forgive me, I didn't locate it elsewhere. Something occured to me and it seemed no one has brought it up. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A BONDSMITH BONDS THE NIGHTWATCHER? The reason I ask is because the NIGHTWATCHER has access to the old magic. Sure Dalinar bonded the Stormfather, but that's just boring Honor. Ho hum . Will the Nightwatcher's Wordsmith be able to manipulate the old magic as well? What say all you wise ardents?
  8. I’m not confident enough in this to call it a theory, but I do think there is some significant support for the idea I just had. The Vorins consider the Old Magic and Nightwatcher to be synonymous and blasphemous. Since we know the humans on Roshar originated elsewhere (Ashyn), I believe the Old Magic actually refers to the magic of Ashyn. Since that magic (boon) is granted by sickness (curse), it makes sense that the Nightwatcher’s activities would come to be associated with that, particularly after enough time had passed for the Rosharan humans had forgotten their other worldly origins, but would still have vague myths and legends about how the Old Magic operated and it matched up with the Nightwatchers boon/curse game. Now if this is true, it MIGHT imply that ALL magic from Roshar is surgebinding, all magic from Braize is voidbinding, and all magic from Ashyn is the Old other words, the shardic source of the investiture doesn’t determine the magic, the planet of origin does.
  9. After hearing about worldhoppers from the 17th shard chasing Hoid I went back to WoK and reread the interlude. Possible arcana unbound spoiers The Firsherman that met up with the foreigners spoke of some interesting kinds of fish. Some fish could send you visions. He even told the seekers that he couldn’t find Hoid , but perhaps he could find a fish that could locate him. I think he was serious . I think something is Resonating Old magic into the Purelake. I’m not sure if there is a perpindicularity nearby or something else. I wonde what all sort of magic effects can happen from eating the fish there? Anybody have any sources : WoB , or speculation about this subject
  10. Did Roshar originally have Spren? Sylphrena indicates 4 genders of spren. 2 for the Parsh, 2 for the human. I don't think Roshar was formed like other Shardic worlds. No other Cosmere world has spren like Roshar, so far. It would seem that the Parsh thought of their objects being Malen and Femalen, voila SPREN! Perhaps? Maybe? Did the way they think or sing create the spren way back then? Shard worlds seem to have the 3 realms setup. Roshar wasn't created by a Shard (that I'm aware of.) The way I understand the history is that Odium saw the existing native Parsh and decided to become their god. He got invested to that Solar System. Along comes the human Voidbringers to settle around Shinovar (initially.) Honor and Cultivation either settled with them or decided to call it home at a later time. Introducing Honor's high storms, Odium's Everstorm (old in design) and the Cultivation's/Nightwatcher's Old Magic. When I read TWoK, I assumed Honors' death and Splintering brought about the spren. I have now been proven false. So, I suspect Roshar was similar to an Earth like world and topography. The Parsh evolved naturally and all was pleasant until Odium rolled on in. My question is HOW and WHEN do you think Roshar got spren? A certified timeline of these early events would be great to read. Thank you.
  11. I don't know if this has been said before but could Hoids light weaving have come from old magic as a boon and as a curse, he is unable to harm people. I'm just wondering what people think because I think the old magic is pre-shattering.
  12. So, as far as I can remember we have three viewpoint characters that have sought the Old Magic: Dalinar, Taravangian, and Lift. Did any of them actually wind up dealing with the Nightwatcher instead of Cultivation herself? I'm leaning no, given how far what they each got was from what they asked for, and the difficulty of nailing down a discrete boon/curse for any of them. (Taravangian is closest in both these metrics, so I suppose he's most likely to have dealt with the Nightwatcher directly, but the outsize role the Diagram is playing in events makes me suspect Cultivation would have wanted to handle it personally.) The relevant Dalinar flashback implies that Cultivation steps in for some but not all supplicants, so it makes sense that these three, all of whom are going to have a huge role in this Desolation, would merit her attention. It's also possible that the lore we have about the Nightwatcher is unreliable, and even "standard" boons/curses are more complicated than we've been led to believe. It would be nice to have a PoV from somebody with a more standard experience, or even a scene where we see the Nightwatcher do her thing without intervention from the boss. Maybe Baxil will change his mind and be back for an interlude.
  13. Hey Sharders! Long time lurker, but first time poster! Hopefully im not regurgitating a theory posted elsewhere, and apologies if this theory expands a bit beyond the confines of roshar, it's about an entity on roshar but by necessity has to expand a bit further! Let me know if i should move this to cosmere theories! but i have some ideas about the origin of the Nightwatcher. It starts with our current understanding of the nature of spren capable of nahel bonds. From what I understand, these spren are small pieces of honor, and cultivation to varying degrees depending on the variety. And have been referred to as splinters of honor or cultivation. These splinters are bits of investiture left without will or a host long enough that it gains sentience. (There has been confirmation in a WoB that spren are splinters similar to the way seons are on sel) I've come accross a number of theories proposing that the nightwatcher is of cultivation, possibly a kind of cognitive shadow similar to the stormfather. This doesnt hold up in my opinion, there is a WoB that i dont know how to link which tells us that cultivations holder is still alive, and from what we know of the old magic, it doesnt seem to fit into the types of investiture made possible by honor and cultivation. (nor the possible iterations of voidbinding that we'll see more of soon) I propose that the nightwatcher is actually a splinter of adonalsium from pre-shattering. There were already other spren on Roshar before any of the shards came there. I think it's possible that this is a magic system that predates all other kinds on roshar, and was put into place before any shards were taken up. The concept of a boon and a curse doesnt feel at all like the symbiosis present in all of the magic from honor, cultivation, or even odium. Thoughts?
  14. I've always wondered if maybe the Dalinar's asked the Nightwatcher to help him forget his wife making that his boon and not his curse... the Oathbringer conversations almost support that theory. What does everyone else think his boon and curse are?
  15. For some months now, I’ve been working on creating a framework for all of the magic systems of Roshar that combines everything we know about them and makes predictions for that which we don’t know. This topic is the end result. Since I’m aiming for completeness, there will be things here that are already well understood, as well as things that I haven’t seen proposed before. So, with apologies for the sheer length that it has become, allow me to present my framework. Magics by Shardic Composition Let's start by listing the various Rosharan powers and classifying them by the Shards which power them. Magic Shardic Composition Surgebinding Honour & Cultivation Ancient Fabrials Honour & Cultivation Modern Fabrials Cultivation Old Magic Cultivation Voidbinding Honour & Odium Voidbringer Powers Cultivation & Odium Surgebinding My classification of Surgebinding shouldn't be raising any eyebrows since it is well understood that each type of Radiant spren is some mix of both Honour and Cultivation. However, let's take a moment to consider how the two powers manifest in Surgebinding as this will provide insight into how I've classified the other magics. While there are many different interpretations of honour, they ultimately all come down to the interaction between two or more people: in a universe with only one person, it would be impossible for them to act honourably (nor to act dishonourably), for there would be no one for them to act honourably towards. This duality is reflected, I believe, in Honour's magic. The most obvious example of this would be the necessity to bond spren in order to perform it. Now, you could argue that since the listeners were bonding spren long before the Shards came to Roshar, this would mean that bonding spren is not related to Honour specifically. However, the listener bond is, by its very nature, very different to the Nahel bond; seemingly less a mutually beneficial partnership, and more a natural process. I would contend, therefore, that this is an example of Honour incorporating this aspect of the Rosharan environment into his magic out of necessity. I do not think that this idea of duality is limited only to the bonding of spren, however; I think that it extends even to the way that the powers form. You likely noticed that in my listing of the various magics that there is no system that is entirely of Honour. I think that Honour's nature means that he requires a second Shard to mix his power with in order to form a magic system. In other words, it would not be in his nature to form a magic that is purely his own. Another example of Honour's effect on Surgebinding is in its structure: the way that Surgebinders are divided up precisely into distinct predetermined Radiant Orders based off of their interpretation of honour, and their determination to emulate that ideal. And also, the way that the powers are divided up between the different orders. This is a rigid and inflexible framework, much like the Radiant’s Ideals can be. In short, this is where the "binding" in Surgebinding comes from: Honour is bound to another Shard and the Radiants to their spren, their Orders, and their Ideals. So if Honour provides a structure to Surgebinding, what does Cultivation provide? I think that it is through Cultivation that Surgebinders get to manipulate the Surges. If we look at the spren associated with each of the Shards, Honour's spren are those of emotion, again linking back to human interaction. Cultivation's spren, however, are the spren of nature, so it makes sense that it is Cultivation's power that gives access to the natural Surges. Now, I can imagine it being argued that since on Scadrial, all the magic systems revolve around metals, surely all the magic systems of Roshar should likewise revolve around the Surges, not simply the ones associated with Cultivation. However, I would argue that this is a false analogy: the metals on Scadrial act as a focus, the Surges on Roshar do not. The powers produced by the Metallic Arts (with the exceptions of Allomantic iron, steel, aluminium, and chromium) are not related to metal themselves. Therefore, whilst all of the Rosharan magic systems should share a common focus, it should not necessarily be the case that they all share the Surges. Modern Fabrials Now with that established, it should be obvious why I think that Fabrials are a magic system purely of Cultivation. They lack the rigid structure that I have associated with Honour, and while the spren are still part of the magic, they are trapped inside the gemstones rather than working with the user as you would expect in Honour’s magic. This leaves Cultivation as the only reasonable candidate, which in turn means that they must be utilising the surges in some way. Although, without the rigidity of Honour’s framework, the way they manifest is apparently quite different. Ancient Fabrials The first thing to note here is that these fabrials do not seem to have much in common with modern fabrials, to the point that I suspect that calling them fabrials at all is a misnomer. Modern fabrials all function by trapping a spren in a gemstone, ancient fabrials do not appear to do this. Spren are clearly involved in some way, just as they are in every other magic; we in fact see this in the operation of the Oathgates. In order to activate them, you need a Shardblade, i.e. the physical manifestation of a spren that is part Cultivation and part Honour. Moreover, the spren needs to be alive. This implies that the person operating the Oathgate needs to be working together with the spren, which sounds just like an Honour based magic. This would mean that the ancient fabrials are far more closely related to the Surgebindings than they are to modern fabrials. Which makes sense given that the effects we have seen (Soulcasting, Regrowth, Transportation) appear to be the same as various Surgebindings. In fact, when Nale heals Szeth with one of these ancient fabrials, he actually refers to it as a Surgebinding. Ideally I would compare the operation of the Oathgates to that of other ancient fabrials, unfortunately though, we haven’t really seen enough of these yet to be able to draw anything meaningful from them. The Old Magic This isn’t a magic like others on this list: it's not something that people can perform; instead, it seems to be practised solely by the Nightwatcher, about whom the only things we can really say with confidence are that she is some kind of “mega-spren”, closely related to Cultivation. This would suggest then that the Old Magic can be described as similar to a sapient, self-operating fabrial. I don’t think that there’s much more that can be said at this point without additional information about the Old Magic or the Nightwatcher. Voidbinding This brings us to the only magic system on the list which I believe to be unrelated to Cultivation. If we look at the Voidbinding chart from the back of The Way of Kings, it is immediately obvious that the structure of the magic is the same as Surgebinding. It even has "binding" in its name, hence why I think that it is of Honour. However, if we look at the symbols where, on the Surgebinding chart, the Surges are placed, we see not the symbols for the Surges, but a twisted version of them. Hence I do not think that Voidbinding will be related to the Surges at all, and hence Cultivation has no part in Voidbinding. Voidbringer Powers And finally, we come to the powers that were demonstrated at the end of Words of Radiance by the Voidbringers. Why do I think that this isn't Voidbinding? We have a WoB that we haven't seen Voidbinding yet, but we have seen these powers, therefore they must be something different. Additionally we have the following WoBs: Since the Voidbringers are forms of the Parshendi, and the Parshendi are not of Honour, if my classification of Voidbinding as being of Honour is correct, then the Voidbringers cannot be Voidbinders. So, why do I think that the Voidbringers are related to Cultivation rather than purely of Odium? If we have a look at Dalinar’s vision of the Purelake, we see him looking for a voidspren, which ultimately ends up animating a thunderclast. The voidspren is described to him as: “A spren that doesn’t act like it should”, not as a new type of spren. And apparently this is a result of the spren interacting with Sja-anat, an Unmade. What’s more, the spren they end up chasing has a resemblance to a riverspren, a type of nature spren, which is therefore related to Cultivation. I would propose, therefore, that the Unmade corrupt spren to make voidspren. When the spren was originally of Cultivation they go on to form Voidbringers and thunderclasts and the like. And when the spren was originally of Honour, they will bond to form Voidbinders. On Initiation The first thing to note here is that not all magics require an Initiation in order to be used. Some, such as Haemalurgy, are universal and can be used by anyone. Modern fabrials also seem to fall under this category. In order to use a magic, you need three things: intent, Investiture, and a focus. In the case of fabrials, the Investiture and the focus are both incorporated into the device itself. In other words, the user only needs to provide the intent to use the fabrial in order for it to work. The crucial part here is that the user does not need to access an external source of Investiture themselves: the fabrial does that for them. The Old Magic is not relevant to this discussion since it is restricted to the domain of the Nightwatcher. Also, I don’t think we’ve seen enough of the ancient fabrials yet in order to determine whether they would also be universal or not, so, for the time being, I’ll pass over these two magics. The remaining magics all seem to require Initiation. Khriss’ comments on Initiation in Elantris’ Ars Arcanum suggest that the method of Initiation across all of the magics on any given world is consistent. I think it should be fairly obvious, therefore, that the method of Initiation here is the spren bond. All of the remaining magics utilise a spren bond in some form, and Syl has openly admitted to Kaladin that she is the reason that he is able to Surgebind. On the Rosharan Focus So far I’ve seen theories on the focus claim that it’s either the gemstones, or the spren, or the spren bond. Firstly, I don’t think that it can be the spren bond: I have already demonstrated that it is the method of Initiation and I don’t see how it can be both. Also, as previously noted, not all magics require a spren bond, but all magics require a focus which is consistent across all Rosharan magics, therefore if the spren bond were the focus, this would be a contradiction. Things get interesting when we start to examine the spren and the gemstones as candidates for the focus, however. When examining Soulcasting, the gemstones act exactly as you would expect the focus to, the type of gemstone used determines the result of the transformation. However, this does not appear to be the case with any other magic that we have seen, which should mean that the gemstones can’t be the focus. The spren seem like an ideal candidate for the focus since they are, like the gemstones, present in some capacity in all Rosharan magics. Moreover, as they are capable of changing their form at will, if they are the focus then they should be able to direct the form that the power takes by themselves. And, we saw in the climax to Words of Radiance, Syl was able to accurately determine the weapon that Kalaldin wished her to form without him having to actively communicate it to her, it would follow then, that the Radiant spren could do the same thing to provide their Radiant with the power that they wished to use. And since in modern fabrials, the spren would presumably be trapped in a single form, it would account for why fabrials each have only a single function. There is, however, a problem with using spren as the Rosharan focus, and it is essentially the same problem that we ran into when we tried considering the gemstones as the focus: when considering Soulcasting, it is clearly the gemstones, not the spren that is determining the result of the transformation. So both the spren and the gemstones must be the focus, but neither the spren nor the gemstones can be the focus! To resolve this, I think we’re going to need to take a closer look at what a focus actually is. To start off with, I don’t think that a focus is actually physical. Everything in the Cosmere exists to some extent across all three Realms, so that we might be able to see or interact with it in the Physical Realm does not mean that this is where the magical interaction is happening. If we look at AonDor, the focus like in all Selish magics is shapes, however, an Aon will continue to function even if you were to destroy its physical representation. Indeed Elantrians can draw Aons in the air, which shouldn’t have a physical body at all. And of course, on Nalthis, they use Commands as a focus which, being auditory, likewise shouldn’t have a physical body. I suspect that it is in the Cognitive Realm that these gain a more concrete, not to mention, permanent, form. So, Investiture flows from the Spiritual Realm to the Cognitive Realm where it interacts with the focus and is filtered down into the Physical Realm in the form determined by that focus. But, if the focus is cognitive, then shouldn’t it be possible for it to be something more abstract in nature, such as a function? We know that gemstones and spren have some kind of relationship with each other. Just consider Navani’s notebook: Could it be the case that spren and gemstones are bound together as variables in a cognitive function that is acting as the focus on Roshar? When spren are imprisoned in gemstones, is that what’s really happening, or are they instead being constrained to the same space as part of such a function? This is what I think is happening here: neither the spren nor the gemstone is the focus, but they are both components in a kind of complex focus. How the Honourblades Work So, I’ve been repeatedly coming back to the idea that the spren are involved in some way in every magic on Roshar, yet you might have noticed that the Honourblades are an exception to this. They allow their wielder to Surgebind, but they are not themselves spren. In fact, originally, the Honourblades would power Surgebinding by opening a direct conduit to Honour, similar to how Allomancy opens a conduit to Preservation, meaning that even gemstones wouldn’t be needed to provide Stormlight. Thus, the Heralds might not have needed either part of the focus that I specified above. Does this not contradict my argument for the focus? I don’t think so; I think that the way Honour hacked the magic in the Honourblades means that this isn’t an issue. When Preservation hacked Allomancy so that Vin was able to burn the mists, she no longer needed the metals for Allomancy. And similarly, when Vin became Preservation, she was able to power Allomancy for Elend without him having access to the metals. Based off of this, I think it’s clear that a focus is not required when a Shard directly intervenes like this. One final point: it could perhaps be argued that the Honourblades represent the true form of Surgebinding and that the Nahel bond is the true hack since the spren copied the Honourblades. I disagree with this interpretation, though. I think that the Radiant spren have always been able to form the Nahel bond and create Surgebinders since Honour first Invested in Roshar, they simply didn’t know that they could do this. When Honour hacked the system by creating the Honourblades though, the spren were able to figure out that they had this ability from seeing what the Honourblades could do. TL;DR Given the size and scope of this treatise, it is impossible to easily summarise the entire piece, however, a few key points are as follows: Honour’s influence causes a magic to take on a predefined, rigid structure. Voidbinding does not manipulate the Surges at all. Spren Bonds are the basis for Initiation. Roshar has a complex focus which utilises both spren and gemstones as components. The Honourblades negate the need for a focus.
  16. I was reading The Way of Kings and I am a little bit confused about one thing. In Chapter 52, Renarin mentions the Old Magic to Dalinar after one of Dalinar's visions, and then, "The empty place in his memories where [Dalinar's] wife had once existed had never seemed as obvious to him as it did at that moment." When I read that, I guessed that Dalinar had forgotten his wife as a result of a curse from the Old Magic. Later on (I can't find the source material), Dalinar becomes a little more explicit with relating the loss of memories of his wife to the Old Magic, saying that he did consult the Old Magic, but will not reveal his curse. I am wondering two things. First, am I correct in my guess about whether this is his curse or not? (I have just finished The Way of Kings, so this is the only spoiler I am okay with for material from later books.) Second, if I am correct, did Sanderson intend this to be heavy-handed foreshadowing, or is he trusting in the intelligence of his readers to understand this about Dalinar without being explicitly told? Also, I am relatively new to using forums, so I would appreciate any advice related to structuring my posts.
  17. SO this will contain discussions on themes within the SA spoilers galore. Do we KNOW that this diagram has to deal with Voidbinding? While rereading the WoK i had a crazy idea that this might actually tie into the Old Magic and the powers that the Nightwatcher uses. I have a couple of thoughts as to why this may be the case. Thought #1: The Woman in the picture that we don't know anything able is the Nightwatcher (I subscribe to the Nightwatcher=Cultivation theory). Thought #2: The Way of Kings has very little discussion about Voidbinding but a lot about the Old Magic. So if anyone has a WoB of other evidence to the true nature of the picture please share.
  18. Hey all, its been awhile since I've lurked on these forums, but I had a thought about civilization pre-odium on Roshar. I think it obvious that the heralds came from a Roshar population that predates odium's arrival on the planet and thus too the desolations. Meaning the heralds likely have a slightly different genetic and spiritual make up from the current inhabitants of Roshar. What I'd like to see discussed is how the current populations differ from the heralds: are the heralds beings created solely from honor an cultivation, and immune to influences like the thrill? are the heralds immortal because of residual after effects of the oath pact. spren are shattered pieces of honor, that emulate the honorblades and make up a newer magic system on Roshar. Do the heralds know of older magic that came exclusively from cultivation and/or honor, and if so does this constitute the 'old magic' of the night watcher? I'd like to hear what you guys think about these topics, or if a similar thread exists I'd love links
  19. At the February 25 Austin signing for Calamity, a questioner asked Brandon, “How many magic systems are in The Stormlight Archives, and how many of them [have been seen?]” Brandon’s answer: I would say the only major one you haven’t seen is Voidbinding, it depends on how you count them. I count fabrials as one, Surgebinding as one, and Voidbinding as one. And then the Old Magic is kind of its own weird thing. This is Brandon’s most definitive statement (that I’ve seen) regarding Roshar’s magic systems. Let’s look more closely at what the three systems have in common and why the “weird” Old Magic doesn’t fit with the other three. I’ll then address the peculiar features of each system. Common Features Each of these magics (other than the older non-spren fabrials) rely on spren for their efficacy, including the Old Magic. The three “systems” all use the same “powers of creation” in some fashion. They differ from one another only in how the system gives access to and expresses the powers. The Old Magic in contrast seems to use only a few of the powers of creation, if any, which differentiates it from the “systems.” Brandon has said the powers of creation are just “tools” (emphasis added): [T]he powers granted by all of the metals—even the two divine ones—are not themselves of either [Ruin or Preservation]. They are simply tools. And so, it's possible that one COULD have found a way to reproduce an ability like atium's while using Preservation's power, but it wouldn't be as natural or as easy as using Preservation to fuel Allomancy. The means of getting powers—Ruin stealing, Preservation gifting—are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves. I interpret this statement to mean that magic systems wherever located differ only in “the means of getting powers” and how the powers express themselves. How do each of Roshar’s magic systems differ? Surgebinding We know that the essence of Surgebinding is the Nahel bond. That is the “means” by which Surgebinders “get” the ability to use the powers of creation, which on Roshar are called “Surges.” Q: The ten Surges on Roshar, I think you said are basically a different set of laws of physics. A: Yeah. Q: Are those laws of physics consistent throughout the Cosmere? A: Um, y-y-yes, to an extent. You would consider, like - it's kind of weird because I based them on the idea of the fundamental forces, but this is kind of like a human construction. Like you could say that physics is pure and natural, but we're still putting things in boxes. And the scientists on Roshar would for instance consider being able to travel between the Cognitive and Physical Realms as a force, the thing that pulls people back and forth between that, as a fundamental force. I don't know if it would fit our definition of a fundamental force. That statement is also from the 2/25 Signing. IMO the reason the Nahel bond gives a Surgebinder access to the Surges is because the bonded spren is cognitive investiture. The bonded spren uses its mind to direct the Surges it controls as the Surgebinder requests. The Surgebinder thinks what he/she wants to do and the spren does it. Forum consensus (but not canon) is that Honor and Cultivation combined their investiture to create the Surgebinding system. This is an example of what Moogle calls “intent-meshing,” but what I call “mandate-meshing” since I think “mandate” is the textually proper word for what we’ve been calling “intent.” (See the HoA Chapter 79 Epigraph.) Honor’s mandate is “to bind,” as Syl tells us. Honor’s investiture creates the Nahel bond. But the bonded spren are a mix of Honor’s and Cultivation’s investiture. The two exceptions IMO are Bondsmiths’ spren (the Stormfather, Honor’s Cognitive Shadow comprised of pure Honor investiture); and Truthwatchers’ spren (pure Cultivation investiture, though connected to their KR’s SpiritWeb by Honor’s Nahel bond). I base my conjecture on the fact that these are the only two Orders “inside” the KR Order Chart (what I call the “Round Table”) that appears on the front endsheet of WoK. Argent has asked the question, “out of the potentially hundreds, if not thousands of spren types, why do the Radiants bind with only ten?” I believe the answer is that the ten spren types who became Radiantspren imitated the Honorblades. Each Honorblade is capable of two Surges. Only spren capable of exercising the same two Surges as each Honorblade - IMO the right mix of Honor's and Cultivation's investiture - would bond with KR. Other spren would have a different mix or be something else entirely. Those spren couldn't exercise the same Surges as the Honorblades. They cannot be Radiantspren. Fabrials There are two broad types of fabrials – the modern fabrials mentioned in the WoK and WoR Ars Arcana and ancient fabrials that seem not to rely on spren at all. We’ve seen two examples of ancient fabrials – ones that enable Soulcasting and Regrowth (the Transformation and Progression Surges). We don’t know whether the fabrial “magic system” includes both modern and ancient fabrials or one or the other. Brandon has said that “Fabrials can replicate all of the Surgebinding abilities.” Arguably the Honorblades themselves are non-spren fabrials that grant the ten Surges. The Oathgates are another ancient fabrial, but they require a “living” Shardblade – a spren; these may be more akin to modern fabrials, but maybe not. All fabrials of whatever kind require Stormlight to operate. The WoR Ars Arcanum author, believed to be Khriss, is “more and more convinced that [modern fabrial creation] requires forced enslavement of transformative cognitive entities, known as ‘spren’ to the local communities.” Note that Khriss confirms that spren are comprised of cognitive investiture. Modern fabrials lock the spren into specific types of gems. The color, cut and size of the gems appear responsible for attracting the spren, its imprisonment, the amount and “wavelength” of Stormlight the spren gain access to, and/or the type of magical output the fabrial creates. Khriss categorizes fabrials into five “groupings”: Altering (Augmenters and Diminishers), Pairing (Conjoiners and Reversers), and Warning. Fabrials “appear to be the work of dedicated scientists, as opposed to the more mystical Surgebindings once performed by the Knights Radiant.” While Khriss seems to write the Ars Arcanum contemporaneously with WoR events – she knows of the Jah Keved half-Shards, a recent development – she seems ignorant of the KR’s re-emergence. IMO the two distinguishing features of modern fabrials are the use of gemstones to capture spren and reliance on merely sentient spren. Surgebinding uses the more heavily invested sapient Radiantspren for its magic. “Altering fabrials,” for example, “seem to work best with forces, emotions or sensations” like heat, pain or wind. We know that sentient spren have access to the Surges too: windspren, for example, can use Adhesion to trip people. I also believe that whatever spren is imprisoned in spanreeds gives the users access to the Transportation Surge: the writing is “transported” over distance. Voidbinding There’s been some excellent speculation about Voidbringer magic, most notably on this thread begun by Argent. Brandon’s 2/25/16 statement clarifies, however, that listener Stormform cannot be “voidbinding,” since we HAVE seen that magic. Lightflame in that thread suggests that listener Stormform is Voidbringing, since that form enables the listeners to summon the Everstorm, the phenomenon that will “bring the Void.” Lightflame distinguishes Stormform from the “Voidish Forms” that Argent lists as the believed counterparts of the KR Orders: Nightform, Decayform and Smokeform. As Lightflame notes, these forms are mentioned in the listeners' Song of Secrets. Stormform by contrast is mentioned in the listeners Song of Winds. Stormspren’s ability to cause lightning and violent winds appears innate, like windspren’s Adhesion ability. Neither seems to require Stormlight. There's no need to replicate the discussion on Argent’s thread, linked above. Instead, if you’re interested I suggest you read the entire thread, since the posters there have helpful insights. It’s clear (to me) that Voidbinding resembles Endowment’s reincarnation of the Returned more than any other magic system we’ve seen. Voidbinding in all its known forms relies on the powers granted to/by the Unmade, the listener “gods.” These former listeners are remade by Odium’s investiture. Nightform: “as the gods did leave, the nightform whispered…” (WoR Chapter 23 Epigraph). Decayform: “a form of gods to avoid, it seems…” (WoR Chapter 24 Epigraph). Smokeform: “Crafted of gods, this form we fear. / By Unmade touch its curse to bear…” (WoR Chapter 31 Epigraph). Oh well, all my theories about “Voidbinding” being a combination of Honor’s and Odium’s investiture – Honor “binding the Void” – are now out the window… The Old Magic But I still have hope for this one. Also at the 2/25/16 Event, Brandon and a questioner had the following exchange: Questioner: I kind of envision the Old Magic working a little bit like Hemalurgy, where some[one] takes a part of the Physical DNA of the person and transmutes it onto the Cognitive DNA because everything seems to be a Cognitive shift for the person. Am I thinking along the right lines? Brandon: You are thinking along very-- Yes you are thinking along the right lines. I won’t tell you exactly but you are thinking along the right lines. I hesitate to infer anything from such a squishy answer. (And PLEASE future questioners, do not invite such an answer by building it into your question, as this person did. It probably wouldn’t have made a difference, but it’s best not to provide Brandon with an “out” in advance.) I’ll assume that the “right lines” the questioner was “thinking along” refers to a quasi-hemalurgical connection between two entities affecting one’s Cognitive capacity. Brandon’s answer conveniently parallels my theory that the Nightwatcher – purveyor of the Old Magic – is a combination spren consisting of the Cognitive investiture of each of Cultivation and Odium bound to one another by Honor: Cultivation boons and Odium Cognitive curses. As Brandon says in the opening quote of this post, the Old Magic is “weird.” You can read my theory and its many detractors, so I won’t repeat it here. In summary, the Nightwatcher is the Cognitive element of Odium’s imprisonment in Greater Roshar. Conclusion That’s all, Folks! Enjoy the rest of your weekend!
  20. On r/StormlightArchive there was a theory that the old magic was voidbinding, in reference to the Parshendi being refered to as "the old people" This got me thinking on the Nightwatcher and where she would fit into this theory. Could it be that odium could have hijacked the Nightwatcher like he can spren and use her for his agenda. What would this mean for Taravangian? He has taken the role of semi-antagonist and it would be an easy transition in the story for him to become a legitimate villain. What could this implicate for Dalinar? Many things, but it would depend on when Odium theoretically took control of NW. Just food for thought, if this next book is Dalinar's as Brandon is saying then we will learn much more about the Nightwatcher.
  21. Here is some quotiness from the Lift interlude which forms the groundwork for this rather simple theory: All of the above quotes were spoken by Wyndle (Lift's bondspren). I think these quotes virtually (though not absolutely) confirm that the Nightwatcher is indeed Cultivation. The first and second quotes refer to the Nightwatcher with Wyndle (and the Ring) referring to her as their "mother" and the third quote seems to clearly indicate (although not ironclad) Cultivation owing to the "Now that He's gone" part. So, one of my early criticisms of the Nightwatcher = Cultivation theory was that the boon/curse gifts of the nightwatcher did not smack of Cultivation since the curses that we had seen so far did not seem to have any purpose and seemed somewhat capricious. Now, in view of the third quote, I think that capriciousness fits nicely. It is my contention that Cultivation was so devastated at the loss of Honor that she by and large checked out of the whole game, as it were. She has given up on people (and the Oathpact?) and is depressed. Now, when people come to her, she makes the sword cut both ways out of bitterness of Honor's death. Now, there is still much room for discovery within this theory. Was the boon/curse system established before Honor's death. I think it was very possibly so. As so many have pointed out, the process of cultivation involves pruning as well as feeding. I would not be surprised to find that the 'curses' from Cultivation prior to Honor's death were constructive in the vein of some kind of disability (not necessarily bodily) in an area of less importance that leads to strengthening in some other area of greater importance. So, what do you all think?
  22. I've seen it posted places that Dalinar went to the Nightwatcher to ask for a boon and the result was that he was cursed to forget everything about his wife, including not hearing anything specific people say about her. If this has already been confirmed somewhere then I apologize. I'm new to the online community and don't know for certain what has and hasn't been discussed. My theory is that the empty place in his mind where his wife used to be is actually his boon, rather than his curse. We know he gets one of each, and the details of the event remain vague, along with everything related to his wife. It's possible that after his wife died he was so stricken with grief that he thought it would be better not to remember anything about her at all. In this sense, maybe the loss of memories isn't the curse, but the boon, or possibly both, as with Taravangian's variable intelligence.
  23. I did a quick search for this and didn't find anything, but feel free to tell me if this has been done before. The questioned posed is thus: if you were to seek out the Old Magic, what boon would you ask of the Nightwatcher? You can keep your answer in-world or not as you desire. The caveat is that the next person to post after you has to tell you what curse you received to go with your boon. If there are no objections...I'll begin: After much internal debate, I would probably simply ask to be awesome.
  24. Well, hello everyone and welcome to my post. I have been thinking for a while about what we know of one of the Roshar's magic systems known as "the old magic". For now, and basing on my faulty memory, what I remember so far is that: -The Nightwatcher uses the old magic to bless and curse at the same time those people who go to ask for something. -It is far on the east respect from Alezkar. -It's in the Valley, which is a concret place, but once in, we don't know if it moves through the territory, or it stands in a concret place. -When using the old magic, it puts something in you via rewriting your spiritweb or changing some physical/cognitive aspect of you. -It's said that the Nightwatcher is a spren. Well, I guess not much humas on Roshar could find a difference between a shardpool and a spren, but what is almost sure is that it isn't human nor voidish. Obviously, we haven't enough information to confirm anything, even including what BS said at the Spokane convention (thanks to those who were there and asked the questions), where he said that the Nightwatcher, the old magic and a shard are all related; but anyways, what has been in my head for a while felt in the right way due to this answer. So, my thoery is that: The Nightwatcher is cultivation's shardpool, or at least is strongely bonded to the shard. The old magic isn't a mystery magic system, it's only the shardholder of Cultivation acting as it's shard demands. It "cultivates" something inside of you, but as every MS has to have a limitation, the cultivation is a double side edge, cursing you at the same time of the blessing. How the curses work respect the blessings and the individual who asks for them, I don't know. It's also unknown why not everyone is able to find it, and I haven't anything consistent about it. Maybe I'm so much wrong or I have missed something important, but this is my theory. Some thoughts about it? P.S: If someone has had the same idea and posted it, I looked for it in the searcher and I didn't find anything. P.S2: Again, sorry for my deficient english.
  25. Okay, this is a really simple little theory, but I noticed an interesting magic system connection. I think that zinc Feruchemy and Taravangian's curse and boon from the Old Magic work in the same way. They are described very similarly from what we've seen from Mistborn and WoR readings. Bolding is mine So, this is a pretty clear parallel in my opinion that shows that the slowness of their minds is very similar, and I'd be willing to be the reverse is true as well. While these are clearly different magic systems from different sources, I think this is likely one example of different magics doing things in the same way.